Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Need Help With A Project  
User currently offlineTeahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5287 posts, RR: 62
Posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1725 times:

I am doing a project for school about opening you own airline. I decided that it would be an airline flying Regional Flights in Ireland using a single B717!

I need as much information as possible about anything and everything.

I allready know that the Dry Lease of a B717 is about $400 000 a month and that the IAA requires 3 months of operating costs.

How much maintenance is needed per week? My current plan is 4 daily Kerry-Dublin returns (45 minutes per way) and 2 daily Dublin-Isle Of Man returns. Is this number of flights possible?

How many maintenance employees and hours would the airline/aircraft require?

What are the costs? I have figured out the obvious ones such as: Labour, insurance, fuel, landing charges, parking charges, passenger service charges, ATC charges and tax. Can anyone give me more and give me some figures for the ones mentioned. The main ones I am looking for are ATC charges, tax, fuel and insurance.

Does anyone have any idea about the hourly operating costs of a B717?

How many hours/flights can cockpit/cabin crew do daily? How much rest per week/month?

This or anything else would be great! Can anyone refer me to any websites?

Thanks for your help!

Kind Regards,
Jeremiah Teahan



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCdfmxtech From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1338 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1642 times:

For numbers...go to airlines website that operates a B717. Download their annual report.
AirTran should publish a report.
TWa doesn't.


User currently offlineIainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1633 times:

I hate to say this and I sure people will give me a hard time over it, but if your project is starting a business it will probably be better to start a sandwich bar, or taxi service which numbers are very easy to come and it would be very easy to do well. ALthough starting an airline will be more fun for you, it will be much harder, and depending on how you teacher grades it will be harder to get a good grade.
Iain


User currently offlineTeahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5287 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1624 times:

Well we were told to do something we are interested in. Many people have chose madder businesses! I know that someone, someplace knows some of this.

Kind Regards,
Jeremiah Teahan



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineAmbasaid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1622 times:

Teahan,

You have set yourself an impossible task, this sort of thing requires a team of people. But if you want to try it, here are some more things that you need to look at….

Why have you picked the B717? What criteria did you use for picking it? Why not the CRJ, EMB145 or even a DC9-30? Does the service REQUIRE a jet, or could you use a more sensible aircraft such as an ATR42/72 Dash 8, Fokker 50?

Where is the money coming from? Bank, Investors, Venture Capitalists?

Are there slots available in Dublin? Who are you getting to do your handling / catering?

What’s the company name? Do you know what positions must be held by designated people. How many employees do you need? How many pilots, how many F/A’s, Ops Guys, Engineers etc etc. Where are you getting the crew from, employees or leasing company? Where will the crews be trained?

Who are the fueling companies in Dublin, how much do they charge per gallon of fuel, how much of a deposit do they require to issue you with a carnet.

You should try getting a breakdown of the number of passengers that flew on these routes. What was the average ticket price, how many of these people used Dublin as a hub?

The Irish AIP will give you a breakdown of airport costs, JAR OPS will tell you the crew limitations. Check the IAA or Eurocontrol for enroute charges.

I admire your enthusiasm for trying this, but as Ceiladh will probably tell you, its as difficult to start operations with one aircraft as 44 L1011’s.

If you do want to continue with the project, why dont you change it to something like...."Picking the right aircraft for the Dublin - Kerry Route?"

Good Luck.


User currently offlineFLY 8 From Austria, joined Dec 2000, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1603 times:

Hi!

I wan´t to give your something about the company structure and all the manuals you have to puplish before your first flight!

Organizational Structure:

Accontable Manager
I -Quality Manager
I-----------------I------------I-------------I
I I I I
Flight Operations Maintanance Crew Training Ground
Manager Manager Manager Operations





Operations Department:


Flight Operations Manager
I I-Flight Safety Manager
-----------------------------------------
I I I I
Feet Chief Fleet Chief Crew Training Cabin Attendants
B737 B747 Manager Manager
I I I I
Flight Crews Flight Crews Flight Instructors Cabin
Attendants




Hoped to help you a little

Benjamin!






yes i can handle that alone. - - -famous last words
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24814 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

I know its only for a project, but landing at Ronaldsway (Isle of Man) in a 717, will certainly make a few passengers knickers turn a different colour!!!


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineOldman From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

Well Son, good luck! you have embarked on a impossible task. Perhaps you should stick with a sandwich bar or? There are to many variables to this project as you will soon see. Oldman.

User currently offlineTeahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5287 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1571 times:

Its only a school project. It does not have to be realistic. I just need some info. What I allready got has helped alot  ! Ronalsway has a 1700 metre runway and has handled B737s and B757s!

Well why the B717. It is definetly one of those "favourite aircraft" choices. The A318 cannot land in Ronaldsway! We need a good plane with a large baggage/cargo capacity. My fantasy airline will open in 2004. One of the main problems with RE taking over the KIR route from EI (Bae 146 down to ATR42) is the lack of cargo capacity.

Anymore info?

Kind Regards,
Jeremiah Teahan




Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineAmbasaid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

What type of cargo needs to be flown out of Kerry?

If you are going to do this properly, you shouldnt even think about the B717, it will bankrupt you within the first 6 months.

Try to be realistic!



User currently offlineTeahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5287 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1561 times:

Fujisawa and Klinge of Killorglin Co. Kerry just to mention 2 !!!!Aer Lingus used to use 2 Bae 146s during the summer. Remember I said 2004. 3 years at 15% of growth an year (Kerry Airport Figures) If RE have 4 ATR42 flights (which they say they will during the summer) That is 200 seats. 4 years growth is 60% more!

I guess you are one of my good friends from the IABB.  

Kind Regards,
Jeremiah Teahan




Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineAmbasaid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1561 times:

I noticed that even Ceilidh has said that the B717 isnt a good choice for your route structure.



User currently offlineAACrew Chief From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1545 times:

If Ronsaldway has handle 737 and 757 why couldn't it handle a A318?????????

User currently offlineTeahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5287 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1542 times:

It seems to me that I have these friends following me from different sites     . EI used to operate twice daily with a Bae 146 300 during the summer with a 94% load factor.

AACrew_Chief, Both the B737 and the B757 can take off with a light load on less than 1500 metres. The figures for the A318 are 1980 metres. Anyway the B717 is much more suited to short hops! It is also considerably more economical since is is not a double schrink (added weight because of the same wing etc..)
The A318 is more suited to airlines that allready operate A32X series planes.

Jeremiah Teahan



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineAmbasaid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1523 times:

And what did they use during the winter??

User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24814 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

Just to correct you, the largest a/c to have landed at Ronaldsway is an Inter-European Boeing 737-300.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineTeahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5287 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1518 times:

1 Bae 146 300 and one F50. The lunchtime F50 was nearly allways full. The last time I took it, I got the jumpseat (trip report in the trip report forum)!

I honestly thought I once saw a picture os a B757 in Ronaldsway. Maybe I was dreaming.

Jeremiah Teahan



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineAmbasaid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1510 times:

So thats 200 seats per day in the summer and 150 in the winter, even allowing for 60% growth which will be directly based on the Irish economy, how can you justify 500 seats a day all year around? (Taken from the fact that Bangkok Airways have 125 seats in the 717)

If you want real information about the 717, try contacting Pembroke Capital in Dublin, they lease them.


User currently offlineTeahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5287 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

EI Bae 146 300s seat 110 and not 100 since you seem to really want exact figures! So that is 220 in winter and 160 in summer. 125 is a single class, high density configuration. 117 is the normal single class and 105 the normal 2 class. I agree with your points but I still see a 110 seater operating the route up to 4 times daily in 2004 as crazy as it may sound.

BTW it does not have to be a B717. I must admit that I jumped on the B717 idea much too quickly. An older Bae 146, Fokker 100 etc... may be a better option.

Kind Regards,
Jeremiah Teahan



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6289 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1522 times:

Hi Teahan,
I think that it can be a great project. And You have already got a lot of information which you can put at good use.
It seems to me that much of the advise you get comes from professionals who every day are striving to make ends meet for their company. That's natural, that's their job.
One said that your company will go down the drain within six months. I may tend to agree, but so what? This is a school project. If your project ends up with the result that the task is impossible, then it is the bottom line of your project. It may be an unusual final conclusion of such a project, but it won't subtract any quality of your project or the work you put into it.
I will not give you any technical or operational hints since I am not an airline prof, I'm a businessman, and may have a few hints of different sorts:
First of all "flexibility" is a major buzzword in business.
You seem locked on dry leasing one B717. There are other alternatives. Wet lease of course, and you are freed of hiring flight crews. You may wet lease two or more planes parttime. That will free you from breaks in traffic when long time maintenance has to be scheduled. You may wet lease different types of planes summer or winter if traffic is season sensitive.
A major part of your project might well be to document the advantages and disadvantages of the different alternatives. That is exactly the way to build a new business.
Then you may make some research into airline companies which operate a very slim network with one airliner only, and how they do it.
Two such companies come into my mind:
1. Atlantic Airways which operates one BAe-146 from its home base on the Faeroy Islands, mostly for the Copenhagen service, but also some occational charters to other destinations.
2. Greenlandair which (in addition to a few domestic Dash-7 and choppers) have leased one B757, which on working days is used on the Greenland - Copenhagen route and during week-ends is utilized by charger travel agencies from Copenhagen to sunny beaches in southern Europe. They operate in co-operation with Icelandair who has a substantial fleet of 757s. I think that flight deck crews are always Icelandair crews. When the Orange coloured 757 is in for maintenance, then a blue Icelandair 757 simply takes over.
That was just ideas for some research.
I am pretty sure that you will find out that for a one airliner company things like crew training, airport handling and all maintenance are totally irrelevant to have in-house. You will have to outsource or co-operate with a much larger unit. Defining aspects of such arrangements might be a valueable part of your project.
I disagree with the advise about the sandwich bar. It is simply not complicated enough. There are simply too few alternatives to work on. You will end up with only one real problem, where to put up that sandwich bar.
The start-up of an airline company may on the other hand end up to be too complecated so you cannot finish it on time - or even worse, the report becomes too thick so your teacher hasn't got the time to read it.
Then you exclude some subjects and make your project cover the subjects which you like best to make research on and exclude the rest. But be sure to point out in the report exactly what subjects you have excluded, or your teacher will probably discover and think that you missed something substantial.
Good luck with your work!
Best regards, Preben Norholm



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineNycank From United States of America, joined May 2000, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Teahan,
I'll be to the point - without doing the actual research for you  

Begin by searching for Jet Blue's Business plan or description of key elements of it.

Search the archives of some of the Business Schools's web sites for case studies.

Search the archives of your Govt. for loans and initiatives for startups and enterprises.

Download Financial statements of some smaller Aircraft companies, use that as a yardstick to get a sense of what it takes.

Call a knowledgable BankLoan Officer in your city, ask him/her to give you say a half a day overview of financing etc.

Call your local councilperson/parliamentarian ask him/her of what they would do
if this was a real thing as opposed to a school project.

If you can then sum this up in neat and systematic manner, you've done your task. The outcome is unimportant - the process is, that is what learning is about and school projects should focus on that. Not whether it is do-able or pie-in-the-sky.

Good luck.


User currently offlineTeahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5287 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (13 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1486 times:

Hey,

Thanks a million PrebenNorholm   and Nycank  . You definetly put a smile on my face  !

Kind Regards,
Jeremiah Teahan



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Need Help With A Project
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Help With Project On Aircraft Engines posted Wed Sep 21 2005 19:35:38 by Pyrex
Need Help With (aviation) Education posted Tue Aug 24 2004 11:19:02 by Soaringadi
Need Help With Flight Training posted Sat Aug 14 2004 10:27:07 by Soaringadi
Need Help With Abbreviations posted Tue Feb 24 2004 14:06:52 by AVANTI
Need Help With Lift/drag Coefficients +AoA posted Fri Dec 14 2001 09:03:57 by Ikarus
Need Help With Canards posted Sat Nov 24 2001 05:15:58 by PanAm747
747 Vs A380-School Project; Need Help posted Tue Sep 19 2006 03:07:29 by Speedbird747BA
Need Help On A School Project posted Thu Mar 27 2003 22:12:19 by AA61hvy
Need Help For School Project - Costs Questions posted Tue Mar 27 2001 21:30:01 by Serendipitous
Need Help Building A Plane posted Sat Sep 2 2006 22:28:45 by Kaitak744

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format