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737 Rough Field Ops

Cancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 13
Posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2006 times:

why is the 737-200 the only 737 variant certified to operate off rough fields?

"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."

17 replies: All unread, jump to last

B747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1998 times:

The option was offered by Boeing... I believe the only operator who had these 737s was Wien Air Alaska... it consisted of a bleed air hose to dissipate possible FOD under the inlet of the engines, and some (teflon?) skin protection around the gear - maybe our friend L-188 can help us put some light on the subject...
xxx
Happy contrails Smile

(s) Skipper

S.p.a.s. From Liechtenstein, joined Mar 2001, 950 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1988 times:

Hola Skipper

Guess that many other operators had(have) this rough field kits installed... I even remember seeing our Air Force VIP 737-200 with the bleed air hose installed (not sure about the debris deflector on the nose gear...)

Gran saludos

Renato

"ad astra per aspera"

747Teach From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1980 times:

Cancidas: Here is a picture of a 737 with the rough field kit installed.
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Photo © Sokol Ymeri
You can see the gravel deflector on the nose strut, and the modified nose gear doors. You can also see the bleed tubes extending forward from the bottom of the inlet cowls. The kit usually included a shield for the bottom of the flaps. Regards,

L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29349 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1980 times:

Hi there.

I belive there where a few operators in Africa that also got the gravel kit.

I believe that the reason why the 737 got gravel kitted was at the time, nobody was interested in certifying a gravel kitted 737-100 which was allready out of production. The -300 and later where not even on the drawing board yet.

When those later generations came around, those CFM engines sit much closer to the ground and have much larger in diameter air inlets, which makes trying to gravel kit one, in my estimation, an impossible task.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

Cancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

why not use some sort of screening over the intake to keep FOD out? would that work?

"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."

L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29349 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

Anytime you put anything in front of an engine, such as a screen you are going to reduce the efficiency that it runs at, and perhaps detrimentally change the airflow characteristics.

Also consider how fine that screen would have to be. Considering that you are potentially landing on strips with dust and mud, I would suggest that such screens would be a heavy maintence item with regards to cleaning. Anything that plugs up the screens isn't good.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

AS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5818 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1828 times:

Great point L-188. Can you imagine not having that same performane on the 737-200's going out of Dutch. They'd never make it.
ASSFO

"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"

L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29349 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1826 times:

Yeah.

Just going into Dutch Harbor once on a Markair 737 was scary enough.

Getting out of there in a Dash 8 or Metro wasn't that scary though.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

Air1727 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 328 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

Try going in and out of Dutch in a DC-6 in marginal wx; landing on 30 as well with strong winds. Seriously, Dutch isn't too bad. It is only when the winds turn sour and vis gets low when it gets really tight on the stick. There are other places in Alaska that are much more unforgiving.

In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.

Learpilot From United States of America, joined May 2001, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1753 times:

I'm not quite clear on what the bleed air tube does. Is it sucking the debris in and spitting it out through the bypass, or is it blowing it away from the intake before it has a chance of being injested?

The Lear 35 I fly had a gravel kit. It has a plate on the flaps behind the main wheels, and it had a nose wheel spin-up kit.

Heed our warnings or your future will be underpant free!

AS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5818 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1720 times:

Learjet-it takes the bleed air out a tube in front of the engine and basically blows the gravel away from the inlet. Iv'e never seen it in action though, that I'd like to see first hand. Someone else may be able to go into more detail of it for you.
ASSFO

"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"

Lstc From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 320 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1717 times:

The bleed air line is there to spoil the little whirlwind that typically forms on the ground in front of the engine. The "whirlwind" acts to siphon grime off the runway and into the engine.

SEVERAL 200 series 737s operated in Canada have/had these kits. Many would combine the gravel kit with a large freight door and modified small overhead bins.

Air1727 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 328 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1706 times:

The "bleed air" line is called a blowaway jet, which disrupts the lower intake vortex from picking up gravel, and also blows away any loose gravel that might be kicked up from the nose gear and got around the gravel deflector.

In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.

L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29349 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1666 times:

Yeah Air1727.

Went on to land at Nikolski in that metro on the same trip.

That was spooky.

Got the whole town to turn out, We apparently where the biggest thing to land there since the Air Force shut down the LRRS there.

Usually they only get the Goose.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

Air1727 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 328 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1616 times:

That is neat L-188. Nikolski is quite the remote deal along with Atka. Does the Goose still head out to Atka too?

In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.

L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29349 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1591 times:

I don't know.

They still have the Goose and the 1040 at Dutch.

The 1050 gets a lot more work now that they have paved the runway at Atka.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

CP744 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1485 times:

We call those "tubes" vortex dissipaters... As stated earlier, they disrupt the formation of vortexes by blowing bleed air out three jets at the ends of the tubes... These pics show the nose wheel gravel plate and the vortex dissipater pretty well...

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