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737 Rough Field Ops  
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

why is the 737-200 the only 737 variant certified to operate off rough fields?


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

The option was offered by Boeing... I believe the only operator who had these 737s was Wien Air Alaska... it consisted of a bleed air hose to dissipate possible FOD under the inlet of the engines, and some (teflon?) skin protection around the gear - maybe our friend L-188 can help us put some light on the subject...
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper


User currently offlineS.p.a.s. From Liechtenstein, joined Mar 2001, 967 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

Hola Skipper

Guess that many other operators had(have) this rough field kits installed... I even remember seeing our Air Force VIP 737-200 with the bleed air hose installed (not sure about the debris deflector on the nose gear...)

Gran saludos

Renato



"ad astra per aspera"
User currently offline747Teach From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2748 times:

Cancidas: Here is a picture of a 737 with the rough field kit installed.
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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sokol Ymeri

You can see the gravel deflector on the nose strut, and the modified nose gear doors. You can also see the bleed tubes extending forward from the bottom of the inlet cowls. The kit usually included a shield for the bottom of the flaps. Regards,


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2748 times:

Hi there.

I belive there where a few operators in Africa that also got the gravel kit.

I believe that the reason why the 737 got gravel kitted was at the time, nobody was interested in certifying a gravel kitted 737-100 which was allready out of production. The -300 and later where not even on the drawing board yet.

When those later generations came around, those CFM engines sit much closer to the ground and have much larger in diameter air inlets, which makes trying to gravel kit one, in my estimation, an impossible task.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2738 times:

why not use some sort of screening over the intake to keep FOD out? would that work?


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2738 times:

Anytime you put anything in front of an engine, such as a screen you are going to reduce the efficiency that it runs at, and perhaps detrimentally change the airflow characteristics.

Also consider how fine that screen would have to be. Considering that you are potentially landing on strips with dust and mud, I would suggest that such screens would be a heavy maintence item with regards to cleaning. Anything that plugs up the screens isn't good.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6194 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

Great point L-188. Can you imagine not having that same performane on the 737-200's going out of Dutch. They'd never make it.
ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2594 times:

Yeah.

Just going into Dutch Harbor once on a Markair 737 was scary enough.

Getting out of there in a Dash 8 or Metro wasn't that scary though.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAir1727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2523 times:

Try going in and out of Dutch in a DC-6 in marginal wx; landing on 30 as well with strong winds. Seriously, Dutch isn't too bad. It is only when the winds turn sour and vis gets low when it gets really tight on the stick. There are other places in Alaska that are much more unforgiving.

User currently offlineLearpilot From United States of America, joined May 2001, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2521 times:

I'm not quite clear on what the bleed air tube does. Is it sucking the debris in and spitting it out through the bypass, or is it blowing it away from the intake before it has a chance of being injested?

The Lear 35 I fly had a gravel kit. It has a plate on the flaps behind the main wheels, and it had a nose wheel spin-up kit.



Heed our warnings or your future will be underpant free!
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6194 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

Learjet-it takes the bleed air out a tube in front of the engine and basically blows the gravel away from the inlet. Iv'e never seen it in action though, that I'd like to see first hand. Someone else may be able to go into more detail of it for you.
ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineLstc From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 320 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

The bleed air line is there to spoil the little whirlwind that typically forms on the ground in front of the engine. The "whirlwind" acts to siphon grime off the runway and into the engine.

SEVERAL 200 series 737s operated in Canada have/had these kits. Many would combine the gravel kit with a large freight door and modified small overhead bins.


User currently offlineAir1727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2474 times:

The "bleed air" line is called a blowaway jet, which disrupts the lower intake vortex from picking up gravel, and also blows away any loose gravel that might be kicked up from the nose gear and got around the gravel deflector.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2434 times:

Yeah Air1727.

Went on to land at Nikolski in that metro on the same trip.

That was spooky.

Got the whole town to turn out, We apparently where the biggest thing to land there since the Air Force shut down the LRRS there.

Usually they only get the Goose.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAir1727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

That is neat L-188. Nikolski is quite the remote deal along with Atka. Does the Goose still head out to Atka too?

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

I don't know.

They still have the Goose and the 1040 at Dutch.

The 1050 gets a lot more work now that they have paved the runway at Atka.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineCP744 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

We call those "tubes" vortex dissipaters... As stated earlier, they disrupt the formation of vortexes by blowing bleed air out three jets at the ends of the tubes... These pics show the nose wheel gravel plate and the vortex dissipater pretty well...


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Photo © Richard Barsby



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Richard Barsby



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