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Cost Of Operation For A Cessna 150  
User currently offlineWoody7001 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 20643 times:

all right I think that I may be getting the hang of these discussion forums now. about the gentleman speaking of the spin of the cessna I appologize for stepping all over your forum. and for the rest that are wondering (who is this idiot?) just remember idiot says it all. I am just trying to come over and be a part of your guys world and I need a ton of advece on buying,insuring and financing a 1964 cessna 150. what are the costs to look at because I want to know if I am going to be able to afford it. thanks and once again sorry about the forum interuption.

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 20620 times:

WELCOME! I'd also like to second what one of the other guys posted over one the "Civil" forum - Thank you for your service to our country and for your service to the people of Iraq. As far as learning how to work this forum, don't worry about it - we've all been there and done that.

A rule of thumb that should put you in the ball park as far as operating expenses go is to multiply the fuel cost by three. For example, if fuel costs $2.50 a gallon and a C150 burns 6 gph your looking at $15.00/hour for fuel. $15.00 times three is $45.00/hour total operating costs.

"SMOH" means "Since major overhaul" or the number of hours since the engine was last rebuilt. There are some good sites on the net that can help you with the costs. There are a lot of caveats associated with an aircraft purchase. You really have to do your homework.

Remember, GOOD CLEAN aircraft tend to appreciate in value. Over the years, I've owned several aircraft outright or in partnerships. My first partnership was in a Luscombe. I purchased it while I was working on my instrument rating and commercial license. I was able to use the airplane for a significant portion of my training. After I had obtained my ratings I sold my share of the airplane. In the eighteen months that I had owned the Luscombe, it appreciated enough to cover all of its operating costs. Actually, I've never lost money with an airplane, but I have to admit that I've been lucky too.

It would be a mistake to purchase an airplane expecting the appreciation to totally cover the cost of operation, because like buying a used car, there is always some risk. However, if you do your homework, shop carefully, and have a bit of luck you may be able to recoup a significant portion of your training costs when and if you ever decide to sell.

Jetguy


User currently offlineWoody7001 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 20604 times:

Thanks, that is quite a bit of info. I just want to be able to go somewhere without having to worry about traffic. I know stupid response but I would like to be able to travel more often a lot faster. could you fly a cessna 150 from NC to Alaska? I am just learning and anything that you guys could offer me as far as financing advice such as interest rates and loan terms as well as what insurance normally runs then I would greatly appreciate it. thanks for all of the good advice so far guys and I appreciate it. thanks again
woody


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6202 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 20600 times:

I wonder how the operating costs for a C150 could be $45 per hour and a local FBO in Bryan, TX only charges $40 per hour (wet) to rent the bird. I also know of a few other flight schools who rent their 152s for $45 per hour. I know you were only suggesting a rule of thumb, but I'd be curious to know what the actual operating costs for a C150 really is. Of course, this depends on usage; the more the plane is used, the less the hourly cost. At some point, you reach a breakeven usage. I've been told that if you fly less than this breakeven number, you should rent. If you plan to exceed this usage, you should buy.


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User currently offlineFly727 From Mexico, joined Jul 2003, 1789 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 20579 times:

With that rule of thumb maybe he is including a tiny portion of the total cost of maintenance that you have to perform on the airplane any given amount of hours and others such as oil, parking/landing fees, etc. Remember it is a rule of thumb and it is as general as it can be. Adding more concepts trying to achieve exactitude will of course affect the numbers, formulas and will generate another generic rule to follow.

About the 40.00 USD an hour. That is cheap! I was paying a year and a half ago 56.00 in San Antonio for a 152 !!!

RM  Smile



There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6202 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 20561 times:

That is cheap!

Yea, I know. The guy who owns the place is an FAA examiner, so I guess that's how he makes his money. I doubt he makes much of anything off N714QD.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineWoody7001 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20497 times:

well guys I can see that just in a short period of time on this site that there is definetely a whole lot that I have to learn. what is meant by parking fees? is that how much the airport charges for storage in a hangar or just parking outside. and what is the average insurance. lets say to the newest pilot in the world and who only has 35 hours of flight time and the only reason he has that much is because of flight school! like I said please help!!!!! I just want to get the full scope of how things are going and just what I am getting myself into. I am preparing to deploy again and the more I deploy then the more I save and when I return I will have a nice little nest egg of cash to get me pointed in the right direction of this little flying venture. I can tell you that I am fully interested and I am ready to go but my problem as with most young guys I jump in too far to fast and I do not want to do that. appreciate all of the advice so far guys. thanks again
woody


User currently offlineJETSTAR From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1638 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 20481 times:
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I own a 1964 Cessna 150, I have had it for 35 years and I am presently doing a major restoration on it, so I can speak from experience.

The direct operating costs for any airplane are only part of the overall operating costs. On this 1964 C-150, as on almost any airplane over 20 years old the history must be checked over very carefully, especially as to how, where and who operated it.

While Cessna builds great airplanes, they were never known for their corrosion protection and a lot of Cessna’s are having costly corrosion problems. If it was based in the dry dessert areas you can expect minimal corrosion, but if it was operated in any costal salt air environment there will be corrosion, and some of it could be severe.

Before you buy this airplane, you should have it checked over very carefully by an aircraft mechanic who is familiar with Cessna’s. Make sure the log books are in order and up to date, all airworthiness directives (AD’s) have been complied with and there is no accident history.

One word of caution, many airplanes have been repaired and unapproved parts and procedures used and there is no record of these repairs entered in the log books, so a good visual inspection inside and out should be conducted as well.

The major area to be concerned about is the engine. A typical full overhaul can cost around $8000 so make sure the engine is low time and was overhauled by a reputable overhaul shop and is documented, not by someone in his garage or who works out of a truck.

So before you purchase this airplane, sit down and figure out exactly how much the maintenance costs, insurance and storage will cost.

There is a great organization called the Cessna Pilots Association based in Santa Maria, CA. They are experts on Cessna’s and probably could answer any pre buy questions you have. If you do buy the airplane, I would suggest you join this association to take advantage of their expertise. Also the AOPA is another great organization for pilots.

If you have any other questions about a 1964 C-150 e-mail me and I will try to answer them for you





User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 20482 times:

My club operates our 152s (~1978) at a very slight loss (usually) for $33/hr. They typically fly 60 to 100 hours per month each. I would guess that they would break even at $35/hr. Gas is ~$2.70/gal for us.

 Big thumbs up



09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 20469 times:

Although I've never owned an airplane, I figured I'd give my two cents...

The 150/152 is a great training airplane, and may be exactly what you want as far as getting your license goes. But are you sure this is *THE* airplane for you after you get your license? For people with an attachment to a specific airplane, definately. For people wanting to go far distances, carry their friends/luggage, considering doing instrument work in the future, .... no.

I highly doubt you will be flying enough and as often as needed to make owning cheaper than renting. With renting, you're much more flexable with the airplane choice, aren't in any long-term commitment, don't have nearly as many headaches to figure out (all these costs, dealing with paperwork, ...), and the biggest problem you have when it needs some serious maintaince is that you have to reschedule to another airplane.

I'm not saying owning isn't the right thing, but its not the right thing for some people in some situations. Put some deep thought into just renting during your private training. Then, when you're a licensed pilot and know very well how much of an airplane you want/need, how much you're going to use it, what its going to cost, etc...consider going out and buying one.


The other thing I'm kind of iffy about is that you haven't really started flying yet. Before you make such a big commitment, go out and make sure its for you, make sure you can get a medical, make sure thats what you want to spend all this money on.


Whatever you choose, good luck, and let us know!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6202 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 20475 times:

Flyf15 stole the words directly out of my mouth  Laugh out loud !

I wouldn't buy a Cessna 152. Once you get your license, you're going to want to take trips, and a 152 is really too slow and can't carry anything in the way of cargo. You'll be disappointed with the 152 once you get checked out in a 172 (especially when you have that 3rd or 4th person you want to take with you), and you'll probably wish you waited until owning a 172 was really an option for you. I feel like tha 172 is an excellent entry level aircraft. But owning a plane is expensive no matter how you look at it. The actually purchase price is probably the cheap part. You must consider operating costs (direct and indirect, fixed and variable), insurance, maintenance, hangar or tie-down fees; these costs really add up!

If you rent, you get to forget about the plane when you aren't flying it. All the overhead is someone else's problem! Suck it up for a few months and rent while your getting your license and trying to figure out things like "parking fees". Your CFI can teach you all these ins and outs (by the way, alot of places will waive parking fees just for buying fuel from them). Once you know a little more about general aviation, you'll be in a far better position to decide if you need your own plane and what kind it will be. Heck, you might even decide to buy something like a J3 that you can't just rent at any airport!



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 20458 times:

You might want to consider getting a partner?

User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6202 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 20456 times:

.............or join a nonprofit club.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 20418 times:

Hi guys.

Hello Woody7001.

Here's a great website that lists "used aircraft" from all across the USA. It's a great way to compared the same aircraft from the same year that have different prices based on the items mentioned in the posts above such as Total Time (TT), Since Major Overhaul (SMOH), age of paint & interior, avionics (VFR & IFR- very good detailed info), hangered or not, flown regularly or not, kit modifications, etc, etc, etc, A lot of the aircraft for sale have good photos with their details.

Quick examples regarding different prices based on TT & SMOH:

You can buy a 1967 C-150 for $25,000 with 3888 hrs TT & only 6 hrs SMOH, or buy one with 2400 hrs TT & 600 hrs SMOH.

You can buy a 1966 C-150 for $22,000 with 4202 hrs TT & 658 hrs SMOH, or buy one with 6200 hrs TT & 360 SMOH.

http://www.aircraft.com

There's aircraft for sale, lease or fractional ownership.

Click on the "Piston Single" category on the home page. There's 59 C-150's listed.

Have fun! Big grin


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Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineWoody7001 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 20383 times:

Hey guys the information is awesome. From some of the other individuals that I was speaking to I have decided to rent for now. Yes a 4 seater would be perfect. I am not sure how to take the gentleman that said I need to make sure that I can get a medical? I am a Marine and the only thing that I have ever had problems with were just some hurting running gear every once in a while but other than that I am tip top. The information is great and this is exactly what I was looking for in a good forum. I was just wandering what tye down and parking fees are? and what do they normally run? keep the info coming guys I am just sponging all of it up. thanks again. and one last question? I do tons of engine rebuilds and tons of repairs on heavy equipment automobiles and my favorite motorcycles! when maintenance is required does it have to be done by an authorized aviation mechanic or can you do it yourself. and yes I do understand that you have to consider the scope of safety when repairs are required. keep it comin boys I am diggin it. thanks again!
woody


User currently offlineCovert From Ghana, joined Oct 2001, 1450 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 20378 times:

I am not sure how to take the gentleman that said I need to make sure that I can get a medical?

Hey you will be suprised when you go see the flight surgeon, some exercises they will make you do you never thought of. You never know until you try.

when maintenance is required does it have to be done by an authorized aviation mechanic or can you do it yourself.

Just like on your cars and bikes, you can do it yourself, provided you know how, only everything must pass the yearly inspection by an A&P. Liken this to the vehicle safety inspection many states have which cars and motorcycles have to pass every year. You can tweak with it and mod it all you want, but come time for inspection it must pass.

covert



thank goodness for TCAS !
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 20374 times:

Just like on your cars and bikes, you can do it yourself, provided you know how, only everything must pass the yearly inspection by an A&P. Liken this to the vehicle safety inspection many states have which cars and motorcycles have to pass every year. You can tweak with it and mod it all you want, but come time for inspection it must pass.

Thats not correct. As a pilot (and not a licensed mechanic), you can only do some minor preventative maintaince on the aircraft. Adding oil, adding air to tires, changing out a burned out landing light, etc. All major maintaince must be preformed by a licensed mechanic or under the supervision of one.


User currently offlineWoody7001 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 20366 times:

Thanks for the advice. The only reason I asked is that working on equipment is not necessarily what I would consider rocket science. I enjoy mechanics and I have a very thourough understanding of them. the only reason is that no matter what type of machine I own or whatever purpose in life that it serves I always have a lot more trust in it if I do it myself. In other words I am not a shadetree. I use extreme amounts of attention to detail when It comes to my work and I have been driving the same truck for ten years and it is real close to turning over to 300,000 miles. That should count for something I beleive even though it does not have wings or the potential to fall from the sky if something is not right. Is there any type of schooling that I may attend to acheive this type of certification? I just enjoy working on my own equipment that is all. thanks for the headsup though.
woody


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 20370 times:

You would most likely be a great candidate to go out and get your A&P (what an aviation mechanic is usually refered to as -- "Airframe and powerplant) license. Although, it does take some commitment. They entire program is usually around 18 months long and is treated as a 2 year degree for the most part. And the cost is what you would expect to pay for such a degree. I'm not a mechanic so I can't really go in depth, but there are quite a few of them on the board that could probably tell you more.

Heres an example of a school which offers an A&P program:
http://aviation.westmain.dreamteamtech.com/

Since you seem to be very mechanically minded and enthusiastic about it, another thing I would recommend looking into is building your own plane. You're not required to have a mechanic's license for this. They're often considerably cheaper than a comparable production plane and can be a lot of fun to build and fly. Usually it takes from 500-2000 hours to complete one and say $20,000 to the skys the limit as far as cost goes. I can't say that I've ever built a plane either, so I can't give you any first hand advice or experiences.

Such examples of popular ones can be found at the following links:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/tp-welco.htm
http://www.velocityaircraft.com/
http://www.lancair-kits.com/



But I still would like to stress that you should just rent and get through at least your private pilot's license, then go on to more grand plans such as getting an A&P license or building an airplane.


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