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Aerobatics Or Gliders, Which Is Most Beneficial?  
User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

Hey all,

For discussion: What would be the most beneficial for the general pilot population to make them more skilled as aviators; aerobatics training or glider training. And since I'm trying to stimulate thought, please give your reasons.

...talk amoungst yourselves.... discuss....

-Normal


19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1651 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Almost any flight training that you do helps to make you a better pilot but, given the choice, I'd say that aerobatic training is a priority over sailplane training. The chance that you can get over on your back, enter a spin, get in an unusual attitude or have to perform some maneuver with precision means that aerobatics can save your life.

I've dabbled in some things that I didn't go on and get the rating for, like seaplanes, and found that I had learned something that applied to my "real world" flying every time.

If you don't have an Instrument Rating yet, get to work on that one first.


User currently offlineMITaero From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 497 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2439 times:

Aerobatics training *in a glider* would be ideal, wouldn't it?  Smile

User currently offlinePilothighflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Aerobatics training !!
Anytime that you can get with aerobatics will be very beneficial, including upset training
That kinda training will make you a much safer more competent pilot.

~Robert



User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2434 times:

Ok, so that's 2 for aerobatics, 1 one for glider... (I think.)

Hey, MIT, one of my best buddies goes to... uh, MIT. He's a grad student in Materials Science.

-Normal


User currently offlineSkyguy11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

I just finished an aerobatics course... I probably learned more about flying in those hours than I have since my first presolo days.

It's amazing how damn precise you can really be... I had no idea you could even recover from a spin on heading before starting (don't laugh!)... during the course I learned that along with about a million other invaluable things.

Plus it was a hell of a lot of fun. I'd really love to teach the stuff one day!

Can't really count this vote towards aerobatics though... because I've never flown a glider though that's another goal!!


User currently offlineJetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

Does it have to be "either/or"? I've taken aerobatics courses, I teach spin entry and recoveries to all my students, and I'm a glider CFI. In my opinion, each is a necessary suppliment, but not a legal requirement. The skill set that you learn in each activity could come in real handy out there in the cold cruel world.

Case in point, the pilot of the Air Canada B-767 "Gimli Glider" that dead-sticked on to a drag strip several years ago. He was an active glider pilot. In my case, I had a total power failure in a C-172 15 years ago and I credit the skills that I developed flying gliders in saving my butt that afternoon. Aerobatic training is no less important. Having the skill to instinctively know what to do when you get into wake turbulence could also be a real life saver.

Neither activity is very expensive. Both types of flying are extremely enjoyable. Most aerobatic courses that I've seen are billed out in 1/4 hour increments. (That's an indication as to how long most people can handle active aerobatic instruction. Believe me, 15 minutes is a lot of time to be flinging yourself around the sky when you're "green and sweaty".  Laugh out loud ) However it doesn't take very many short training sessions before you really start to enjoy it. As far as glider training goes, the add-on rating isn't all that expensive - if you're interested, check out this web site: http://www.ssa.org.

Jetguy




User currently offlineLiamksa From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2410 times:

G'day Normal

I've done a fair bit of aerobatics training but no gliding so I can't make a proper case for either one, but I can definitely say that the aerobatics training I've done has been awesome! You hone your skills so much while just flying the plane, nothing in the back of the mind thinking about your next waypoint or radio call.


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For aeros I've flown the Decathlon and the Zlin and each has its place. Flying (or maybe landing/taxiing  Smile) a taildragger is great fun, and it requires much more accuracy than a tricycle setup. Not having any flaps (obviously can slip but there's a company SOP on the minimum height) highlighted the value of flying a proper approach, on slope and on speed, and how important that is in nailing that landing.

And once you're up in the air with a few hours of aeros you really get to know the plane and expect what's going to happen next. I buggered up a stall turn the day other day and could feel the plane about to spin and without thinking reacted. That there I reckon is the real value in doing aeros -> the instinctive reactions you develop. I found that I really started to understand the aircraft - I could feel what was going on. Although i've never had to apply it in normal cross-country flight i'm confident that if (when) i come across that situation i'll react quickly and effectively.

Anyway, a bit of a ramble, but from me a HUGE thumbs up for aeros, although I'm definitely planning on gliding training in the future. Ideally i'd say do both.

That's enough  Big grin

Rob.


User currently offlineB747Skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 2357 times:

What I would personally recommend is to get glider training first in learning to fly, through PVT level, or at least through your first solo, then start learning to fly powered airplanes.
xxx
As far as aerobatics, maybe some 10 to 20 hours of training, when you near the end of your training for the CPL. Some countries require aerobatics as part of the CPL curriculum.
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2336 times:

I haven't done either, but I have been told by someone that did glider training, that he really thought it taught him a hell of a lot more about how the wind works.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1959 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

I'd go for the glider training. I don't see any urgent need to learn aerobatics in civil aircraft, other than basic spin training. Gliders seem like more fun, plus there's another rating you can add to your license.

User currently offlineGoboeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2698 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

I think both are very beneficial. I've done more aerobatics training than gliding, but I can see the advantages to each.

I've flown a "real" glider once, at Van Sant airport. That was before I started PPL lessons. After the private license, I did about 6 hours of flying in a Grob-109 motorglider. We had to keep the engine on for some of the flights because of the cold, but I did experience some of the glider things people talk about.


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I also flew about 15 hours worth of aerobatics training in the Avions Mudry Cap-10. I think that if I'm ever in a situation where I'm in an "unusual" attitude, I'll be able to quickly react and get out of it without damaging the aircraft or panicing until it's too late. Unusual attitude training makes any attitude "usual." After loops, snap rolls, hammerheads, knife edge turns, and inverted flat spins, stalls don't seem scary any more.

One of the Caps I flew actually still had the French Connection paint job on it; it was obtained from that aerobatic team after they had an accident.


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I think you should do both; they're equally beneficial.

Nick




User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2303 times:

Both have very beneficial qualities and both will make you a better pilot. I've done both and can say that I'd prefer to do more soaring. Maybe it's because I had an instructor who had more time in sailplanes than powered aircraft, maybe it's because I'm one of those guys mentioned earlier who made it 20 minutes before blowing chunks.  Smile

Almost any rating or sign off will help you in your career. The instructor I had would always show me cloud formations that were turbulent. In a glider, you want that, in an airliner, you want to avoid them. He was also from the mountains and being in the midwest some of the weather phenomina we discussed never happens here. That will come in handy some day when I'm in a region that isn't just corn fields.

All that being said, I'll add one more to the mix. I think that everybody should get a tailwheel endorsement. My landings have gotten MUCH better since then. Tricycle gear is much more forgiving. If you mess up a crosswind landing in a taildragger you are more than likely going to ground loop. They also only take a couple hours in an aircraft that won't be much more expensive than what you fly now. No check rides or special forms to fill out, just a signoff in your log book and a whole new world of aircraft is opened up to you.



DMI
User currently offlineSkyguy11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2254 times:

Woah those pictures are awesome!

User currently offlineSchreiner From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 13 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Aerobatics in a glider helped me very much in get more "feeling" in flying. Aerobic a/c have engines, so that would be a +.

I´ll choose gliding, just because you heve more feeling and because I love it!  Smile


Cheers,
Schreiner



Soaring the internet...
User currently offlineWingscrubber From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 850 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2171 times:

6 years ago in while on AEG (air experience gliding) with the air training corps I was taken up in a Viking glider, I was 13 at the time. I was whinch launched(thats scary enough, 0-60mph in about 3 seconds), and was then subjected to loops and neg-G maneouvres at the hands of my instructor (sat behind me). As an aviation experience, combining both unpowered flight and aerobatics was truly memorable, I loved it Big grin

Pete



Resident TechOps Troll
User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2157 times:

Well lets see if my old password works.

I say do both. And do aerobatics in gliders if you can too (much more graceful aerobatics compared to the traditional sport acro in power aircraft). Now you can do 2-3 times more soaring for the same price as Acro.

Now do get you in the mood for both:
http://movies.lazyeights.net/sailbatics.wmv



At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2148 times:

That movie was sweet.

-Normal


User currently offlineJetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2149 times:

PPGMD...
Thank you for posting that website! That, my friends, captures it all.
Jetguy


User currently offlineSkyguy11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

Yikes!!!! I hope that thing has a negative G fuel system!
Oh... wait

Seriously, that looks like it has got to be some of the MOST FUN flying you could POSSIBLY do!  Smile


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