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Question Re: LAX Arrival Star  
User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1521 posts, RR: 14
Posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3623 times:

I live in close proximity to LAX, and can observe aircraft as they approach from the north. Typically, the routing is Fillmore, Santa Monica, then vectors to (usually) the 24 complex, sometimes the 25s. However, there have been occasions whereby upon reaching SMO, the aircraft flies about a 100 heading. This routing takes the aircraft over the 24/25 approaches at 7000' descending and has said planes doing a south downwind to LAX.
What condition(s) dictate this?


With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6813 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3591 times:

Stab in the dark: is the usual 70-heading-off-SMO only used for visual approaches?

User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

If there is a lot of traffic around, we will normally be asked to fly heading 070 from Santa Monica VOR just so we join a longer final. It is still under radar vectors, just to accomodate more traffic. We have to be wary of getting too low on descent when on this heading as we are flying towards the hills, and we have had a few cases of the GPWS being set off because of the descent towards the hills whilst on this radar vector.

User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1521 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3559 times:

No, it's not the 070 heading. 070 is practically a straight shot from SMO to downtown LA. The pattern I'm curious about is in the 100 - 120 heading range from SMO toward SLI. Once about 8-10 miles SE of SMO, aircraft are turned to 070. Another way of explanation: rather than parallelling the 24s on the approach, these aircraft parallel the 25s, then perform a left base for final. 070 from SMO is used with both IMC and VMC.

[Edited 2003-12-19 02:38:44]


With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3494 times:

Let me guess, these are aircraft who are landing on the 25s... likely to either balance the arrival load on the pairs or because they are for the south terminals like UAL. Likely they are going over the arrival ends at 7000 like you say and then entering a downwind for 25. It ends up being a teardrop approach. I may pull up Flight Explorer and watch for something like that.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1521 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3492 times:

Let me guess, these are aircraft who are landing on the 25s... likely to either balance the arrival load on the pairs or because they are for the south terminals like UAL. Likely they are going over the arrival ends at 7000 like you say and then entering a downwind for 25. It ends up being a teardrop approach.
InnocuousFox,
BINGO. I suspect it's both, as I've seen aircraft vectored for that approach when the approaches were busy, and not so busy. Typically UA and Skywest (UAX) get this vector, but I've also seen some of the int'l guys that park at TBIT north gates, or remote gates, fly this approach.
Thought someone might have specific info.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

The advantage of running a parallel downwind is that you can turn an a/c in on a 180 to fill a gap. They keep going away from the field until there is a gap and then start their turn (usually when they are abreast of the inbound a/c). The a/c departing SMO on heading 070 are for the north side of the field. The ones overflying the field will probably then fly a 070 heading once they get SOUTH of the south approach flow... they do the same thing as the first group, but they just make a left turn to join the pattern.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1521 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3450 times:

IF,
Appreciate your response. I'm aware reasoning, it's just that SOCAL issues these vectors on an infrequent basis. At DFW, parallel downwinds are SOP.
Your original response is probably the answer...a procedure utilized at the discretion of SOCAL traffic-dictating, or traffic-permitting.
See ya' back on the civil-side!



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3471 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

Normally assigned only during periods of relatively light traffic and only to commuters. Simply to "cut the corner" on an approach and almost always to get them to the south complex quickly. Close & quick coordination by LAX Tower & SoCal Tracon required.


*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1521 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

AAR90,
Thank you. I have noticed mostly EMBs and SAABs. However, have seen practically everything else. Yesterday a CO 777, today Atlas 74-400. I believe you and IF have it...procedure dictated by traffic.



With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
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