Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Using Electronics During Takeoff  
User currently offlineBombayhog From United States of America, joined May 2001, 557 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7897 times:

A question for anyone that might have a better idea than me about this- I understand that using electronics during takeoff and landing on an aircraft can have a negative impact on communications, etc. and for this reason, the airlines don't allow it.

Realistically, however, how dangerous would it be to, say, have a video camera going during takeoff? Is there a possibility that such an action would endanger the aircraft?

Thanks for any answers in advance.

-bombayhog

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline737Captain From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7835 times:

The chances of an electronic device affecting with the navigation equipment or communication equipment is hiiiiiighly unlikely, in fact, i've never heard of it actually happening, it's more of a wives tale, i know of pilots that leave their cell phones on all the time in the aircraft while it is in the air. The reason they dont want you using electronic devices below 10,000 feet is because they dont want you preoccupied or tied up with your "toys," is that in case of an emergency you are ready to evacuate, or brace, etc, etc. hope that helps


"Why do you insist on man-pawing the glareshield everytime you climb up here?!"
User currently offlinePiedmontGirl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1124 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7820 times:

737Captain:

The reason they dont want you using electronic devices below 10,000 feet is because they dont want you preoccupied or tied up with your "toys," is that in case of an emergency you are ready to evacuate, or brace, etc, etc. hope that helps.

Also because in an emergency that camera, or whatever you are playing with, would become a missile that would just about knock someone senseless. Not to mention that it would destroy the electronic toy in the bargain.


User currently offline737Captain From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7787 times:

Ahhh yes, i omited that one, but good point nontheless, that whole inertia thing can cause some damage when you come to an abrupt halt  Smile


"Why do you insist on man-pawing the glareshield everytime you climb up here?!"
User currently offlinePiedmontGirl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1124 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7768 times:

737Captain:

....that whole inertia thing can cause some damage when you come to an abrupt halt.

LOL......it can for a fact.....to both the humans and the toys.  Laugh out loud



User currently offlineA330Fan1 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 856 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7714 times:

Just listen to the captains, they know what they're talking about... Smile, it's not like being deprived of your music for 20 mins is going to be a big deal...just do what's safest.

-A330Fan1


User currently offlineSebwhite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7700 times:

JetBlue CEO David Neelman recently said on NPR that the airline believes electronics do NOT interfere with navigation at all.

User currently offlineBombayhog From United States of America, joined May 2001, 557 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7682 times:

Interesting...I hadn't thought of the distraction factor of using electronics. Also very interesting to hear about pilots leaving their phones on.

Toys becoming flying objects does seem hazardous as well, yes. But it seems odd, therefore, that they would have no problem with me holding my electronic device, book, etc., in my hand during takeoff, just as long as it wasn't turned on.

Though in the case of the aircraft coming to that abrupt halt, flying cameras would probably be something like number 23 on my list of worries.

-bombayhog


User currently offlineBombayhog From United States of America, joined May 2001, 557 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7674 times:

A330Fan1- I can see your logic. We must put our trust in the commander of the aircraft. I wouldn't have a problem with not listening to music for twenty minutes, but in this case, I'm hoping to get some footage for a short film, and I want it to be during takeoff.

User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7676 times:

Although, it would be humorous to modify the GPS settings en route while comfortably on my lovely Motorola phone! I'm sure that would be first in the world of cell phone-tronics!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

But, the whole projectile theory is also a good reason. That is, for some reason, if nobody would mind a little modification on old Mr. Garmin to POP instead of ATL!



Crye me a river
User currently offlinePiedmontGirl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1124 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7658 times:

Usnseallt82:

But, the whole projectile theory is also a good reason.

Last aborted take-off I had, I saw a cell phone come flying up the aisle. It bounced off the cockpit door (the pilots said it sounded like a pistol shot). The battery came off. The face plate came off. The antenna was in a position that it was never meant to be in.

The woman was really upset that her phone just -- darnie poo -- didn't work any more.

Well, of course not. It hit the cockpit door at something like 80 miles per hour. What might one expect?  Smile


User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1848 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7635 times:

I'ved used my camera to take pictures on takeoff and landing numerous times, never been stopped by a F/A, so it's really a judgment call on some items.

Brett


User currently offlinePiedmontGirl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1124 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

USAIRWAYS321:

I'ved used my camera to take pictures on takeoff and landing numerous times, never been stopped by a F/A, so it's really a judgment call on some items.

It is, in fact, an FAR. The F/As either don't have guts enough to ask you to put it away or they didn't see you.


User currently offlineEKFirstClass From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2004, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7563 times:

Actually the electronics are quite dangerous! I've read hundreds of safety reports where the electronics on board were blamed for abnormal behaviour of the aircraft or the instruments. Thinking that most of the accidents happen during take off or landing (+3 / -8) ALL electronics MUST be switched off!
Links where you can find some more information: http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/Cabin_Safety/laptoppling.html
http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/Cabin_Safety/laptoppling-2.html
As soon as I find more I will post it here.

[Edited 2004-01-11 10:03:14]

User currently offlineMattbna From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 316 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7496 times:


I've never had any problems taking pictures out the window(s) while taking off or landing. I'm thinking that this is because the F/As were in their seats at that point in time and weren't in a position to see me. Had I been holding the camera up in the window while they were walking down the aisle on the way to their seats, I suppose they might have said something.

Unless I was in the very rear or very front of the aircraft (near their seats) I don't see how they could see me to tell me to turn the camera off.

This was discussed in here a few weeks ago and it seemed that most people agreed that if the device is not emitting RF (camera, walkman, etc.) that there should be no reason to worry about it affecting the aircraft. Is there something about electronic devices that we need to worry about other than RF or it becoming a missle (which would happen even if it was off!)?

Now that I think about it further...I can see why they wouldn't want you to have on headphones as you can't really hear any announcements, etc... Either way, that still doesn't explain the lack of camera use.

Northwest DC-9 safety cards point out that you should not use remote-controlled cars on the aircraft (like most people would put those in carry-on anyway)... The first time I noticed that, I thought of how interesting if would be to be sitting in your seat and all of the sudden a gasoline powered monster truck comes flying down the aisle! Not a good scene.  Wow!

Matt



Canon EOS 7D & 40D -- 100-400mm L IS -- 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II -- 28-135mm IS -- 10-22mm -- 18-55mm EF-S
User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7477 times:

What about scanners to monitor radio transmissions between aircraft and ATC? Not all airlines have UA's channel 9.


"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineMattbna From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 316 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7451 times:


Scanners don't transmit so technically it shouldn't be a problem... The problem would be getting on the plane with a scanner and the general public's lack of knowledge of scanners / radios. Chances are they would think that it could transmit and there is no way you'd get it on the plane. In this world of extreme paranoia that we now live in, security issues would probably be a concern as well.


Matt






Canon EOS 7D & 40D -- 100-400mm L IS -- 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II -- 28-135mm IS -- 10-22mm -- 18-55mm EF-S
User currently offlineChickenorbeef From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7437 times:

Hmm, I guess the pilots who let us take pictures in cockpit during flight must be insane ... =P

COB


User currently offlineShamrock1Heavy From Ireland, joined Nov 2002, 250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7438 times:

EKFirstClass - Do you belive everything you read? Those articles sound like some alarmist teenage safety queen on a rampge to stop a jelous feeling because she doesnt have a laptop to use on board. There arent any links to back those claims up either, which makes me even more suspiocous

This is not an attack on you EK..

I dont belive any eletronics that you cold take in your carry-on could cause interference...save a EMP bomb or mabye a cd player that transmited subblimal messages to the pilots.

-D



when in hell, we'll do shots at the bar
User currently offlineMjszanto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7429 times:

A scanner would be most likely to create transmissions. In fact there are billboards that alter the ads, depending on what station your car radio is on, by detecting the emissions of your car radios. For surveying purposes, they used to monitor the transmissions from passing car radios. A radio receiver emits radio waves on roughly the frequency they are tuned to, I believe.

User currently offlineMjszanto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7429 times:

Here is a good example of how scanners/radios clearly emit radio waves.

http://www.sptimes.com/News/013100/Technology/Your_car_radio_may_be.shtml


User currently offlineEKFirstClass From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2004, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7378 times:

EKFirstClass - Do you belive everything you read? Those articles sound like some alarmist teenage safety queen on a rampge to stop a jelous feeling because she doesnt have a laptop to use on board. There arent any links to back those claims up either, which makes me even more suspiocous

This is not an attack on you EK..

I dont belive any eletronics that you cold take in your carry-on could cause interference...save a EMP bomb or mabye a cd player that transmited subblimal messages to the pilots.


Shamrock1Heavy,
I don't believe a word I wrote there! I don't believe the safety reports either! I just invented all this story because indeed I am jealous on all the owners of laptops, Cd-players and so on... Probably this is the answer you expected!

I am working as a cabin crew for more than 4 years now. Not only I have access to more information regarding air safety but I witnessed once few months ago an incident during a flight. I was in the cockpit for few minutes and the auto pilot got disengaged for no reason. As soon as I came back in the cabin I noticed one passenger checking his mobile for a telephone number. His intention was to use the onboard satelite telephone but he didn't know the number which was stored in his mobile. His seat was 6-7 meters from the cockpit door. Coincidence? I don't think so!
You want to be an airline pilot someday? Here's lesson number one: safety in the aircraft is just someone else's experience! Too bad that lots of them died for us to find out how the things should be done...



User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7341 times:

Shamrock, you would be very surprised to see the effect of EM wave coming out of a mobile phone.
Remember mobile phones are built to sent EM power. Make a call with the phone under your TV and you'll understand. Now, on a sensible electronic circuit ... I wouldn't take the chance.


User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1848 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7312 times:

PiedmontGirl: What do you mean by 'FAR?' Also, they've all seen me, so your ex-coworkers (all of my pictures have been tken on US Airways) must be gutless, lol.

Brett


User currently offlineEKFirstClass From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2004, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7244 times:

As I promised I am posting few more links with materials about the use of electronic devices during the most critical phases of any flight:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/750893.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2248683.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2324259.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2992973.stm
Also an extras from an article published in November 2002 at www.mobile-review.com:
First alarm was set when cell phones became widely spread and equipment errors became more often but still there were no direct evidences. Till 2000 some of the countries didn't joint to the ban against cell phones but an air crash of the flight number LX 498 Crossair (Saab 340) considerably changed the situation. It was not far from Zurich on the 10. of January 2000. Ten passengers and a whole crew perished in that air crash. For a long time the results of flight recorders decoding were not announced but at last it was a sensation. One of the reasons of the crash was an SMS message, which was received by one of the passengers, and a next cell phone conversation. Navigation monitoring devices showed wrong data at that moment, what led to a crash. Comments of independent experts were not comforting, they said that crew could improve the situation but it also made a mistake and crash was inevitable. Everybody agreed that an airplane fortune depended on crew actions and crew professionalism after electrical systems stopped working. Those countries which hadn't joint to the ban before, hurried on to do it. After that this air crash was forgotten.
Complete link: http://www.mobile-review.com/articles/2002/plane-en.shtml


25 Post contains links GeneralA : Here is some more information on interference from electronic devices: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_10/interfere.html http://www
26 Dtw757 : An FAR is a Federal Aviation Regulation. Part 91 Section 21 takes care of portable electronic devices. I beleive cameras fall into the b5 category. I'
27 Bombayhog : It seems that there's some amount of disagreement. One thing is that I can't really find any direct mention of the dangers of a digital video camera.
28 Dazultra : OK, one question, what is a camera gona do to a navigation system? Will it mysteriously disturb signals being sent down cables when u press the shutte
29 Wants2fly : My most recent international flights on EVA Air, the F/A added "Electronic Equipments, including digital camaras, are prohibited during take off and l
30 Wants2fly : sorry, ment to add I was flying SONG to MCO wants2fly
31 PiedmontGirl : USAIRWAYS321: PiedmontGirl: What do you mean by 'FAR?' Also, they've all seen me, so your ex-coworkers (all of my pictures have been tken on US Airway
32 Post contains images AAR90 : It seems that there's some amount of disagreement. Only for those who don’t want to follow safety regulations. It seems to me that most of the conce
33 Airplay : This question just never dies! And the real answer is always clouded by pilots and arm-chair engineers. When it comes to design and certification, ele
34 Dash8tech : If we go back to the original post here we may be missing the point... BombayHog asked about the use of electronic devices during takeoff and landing.
35 Post contains images TWISTEDWHISPER : I made a really REALLY stupid thing once. I was sitting at the flight from Louisville, KY to Chicago, IL and I was sooooo bored. It felt as if we were
36 Airplay : Electronic Devices: Potential hazard to passenger safety - nothing to do with comm/nav Wrong.... Afterall, there is communication and navigation going
37 USAFHummer : Believe it or not TwistedWhisper, Southwest Airlines allows the usage of GPS devices inflight...Im pretty sure there are other airlines out there that
38 Post contains links VC-10 : It seems that there's some amount of disagreement. There is no disagreement between the organisation who who have all the facts i.e. the a/c manufactu
39 Beechcraft : hi all, i think this has been said before, but there are devices you are allowed to use during cruise and some that aren´t to be used during take off
40 Avioniker : 737Captain: You really need to talk to someone who understands avionics. Airplay: Thanks for an excellent set of answers Dash8tech: get back to your b
41 MD11Engineer : While working on passenger aircraft I´ve personally heard a cellphone signal comming through on the COM systems with a loud buzzing noise. Jan
42 Avioniker : One last link to another forum about this: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114903&goto=nextoldest
43 Post contains images LMP737 : Boeing had an interesting article in Aero magazine, issue 10, about interference from electronic devices on commercail aircraft. In 1998 a 747 experen
44 Buckfifty : It seems to me that most of the concerns over electronic devices, while warranted, are largely unproven and inconclusive. When you're trying to talk o
45 Post contains links and images Mr Spaceman : Hi guys. I can't figure out what the grey object is that's sitting on the center console below the throttles. It has a purple name printed on it which
46 BigMac : Oooopppsss... I think during the early 90's I used my comcorder a lot during take offs and landings. I mean, I made maybe 10 complete take offs and la
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Using Electronics During Takeoff
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Using Cameras During Flight. posted Mon Nov 21 2005 20:55:04 by Alasdaironeil
Unusual Noise During Takeoff In A330 posted Tue Nov 8 2005 07:00:49 by Ryfly777
Where Are The Pilot's Eyes During Takeoff? posted Mon May 2 2005 21:14:22 by Sleekjet
Explosion During Takeoff? posted Wed Mar 23 2005 06:50:11 by Mjc
A320 Losses Engine Cowlings During Takeoff? posted Thu May 13 2004 00:54:06 by Mr Spaceman
DC 10 Engine Noise During Takeoff posted Wed May 12 2004 23:32:11 by Gopal
What Is The Point Of Seats Fwd During Takeoff? posted Wed Jan 14 2004 07:26:31 by KBUF737
Excessive Fuel Burned During Takeoff Lineup posted Wed Aug 13 2003 21:34:02 by Bio15
Average Engine Working Percentaje During Takeoff? posted Sun Jun 9 2002 09:41:43 by Jgore
Slats/Flaps During Takeoff? posted Tue Jul 17 2001 10:31:14 by SUDDEN

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format