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What Is The Point Of Seats Fwd During Takeoff?  
User currently offlineKBUF737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 779 posts, RR: 3
Posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5243 times:

Why do they ask you to leave seatbacks up for takeoff and landing? I really don't see how it can be a safety concern? The only thing I can think of is that it creates a little less space to get out of the already cramped row. Any thoughts?

-Buffalo


The tower? Rapunzel!!!!!!
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAmazonphil From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 561 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

thats just it..the space required in the event of an aborted TO, to get out..


If it ain't Boeing, I ain't goeing!
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5160 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Which is also why the back row is nice, you can have your seat back down whenever you want to  Smile


911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineAgrodemm From Greece, joined Apr 2000, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5057 times:

KaiGywer: In relation to the back row comment, from my experience seats in the last row do not recline....

User currently offlineEKFirstClass From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2004, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4989 times:

The seats sould be upright during take off and landing to allow the passengers behind you to leave the aircraft in case of an emergency evacuation. From my experience the last seats do recline including the seats before an emergency exit but those seats should be locked upright for take off and landing by the cabin crew. Anyway, behind the last row of seats you'll find usually emergency equipment and that's a good reason for those seats to be upright. Maybe it's a matter of aircraft type and airline policy.
Cheers!


User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4772 times:
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If anyones interested in the real reason!  Smile

Requiring seats to be in an upright position for takeoff and landing is due to the breakover safety feature of the seats.

In a sudden decceleration, with the seat in the upright position, the breakover mechanism will allow the seatback to pivot forwards thus reducing the risk of the upper body/face of the passenger behind striking the seatback.

To achieve this, in the upright postition the recline mechanism the seat is back is prevented from moving backwards, but, due to the breakover it is free to move forwards.

If the seat is reclined (even slightly) the recline mechanism locks the seatback in place, in a sudden decceleration the passenger behind will more than likely injure themselves as they are thrown forward.

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Photo © Alastair Bor


You can see in the above photo that some seatbacks on the left are folded forward. In this case they have been deliberately pushed forward to provide more space, and its a design feature of the seats - western airline seats don't have that feature, but you see the idea. Obviously the seats wouldn't go that far forward in a sudden decceleration if there was someone sitting in it

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineRthrbeflying86 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 243 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4697 times:

Virgin's Upper Class Suite boasts being the first seat to allow reclining for T/O and Lndg. Does it have to do with the space they take up? Or a more modified locking mechanism?

Dan



I'd rather be flying.
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4680 times:

Ho hum...another question about aircraft certification that everyone from pilot to dispatcher to passenger answers so authoritatively that many come away thinking they have the right answer...

FAR 25 says:

Sec. 25.785

Seats, berths, safety belts, and harnesses.

(a) A seat (or berth for a nonambulant person) must be provided for each occupant who has reached his or her second birthday.
(b) Each seat, berth, safety belt, harness, and adjacent part of the airplane at each station designated as occupiable during takeoff and landing must be designed so that a person making proper use of these facilities will not suffer serious injury in an emergency landing as a result of the inertia forces specified in Secs. 25.561 and 25.562.
(c) Each seat or berth must be approved.
(d) Each occupant of a seat that makes more than an 18° angle with the vertical plane containing the airplane centerline must be protected from head injury by a safety belt and an energy absorbing rest that will support the arms, shoulders, head, and spine, or by a safety belt and shoulder harness that will prevent the head from contacting any injurious object. Each occupant of any other seat must be protected from the head injury by a safety belt and, as appropriate to the type, location, and angle of facing of each seat, by one or more of the following:
(1) A shoulder harness that will prevent the head from contacting any injurious object.
(2) The elimination of any injurious object within striking radius of the head.
(3) An energy absorbing rest that will support the arms, shoulders, head, and spine.
(e) Each berth must be designed so that the forward part has a padded end board, canvas diaphragm, or equivalent means, that can withstand the static load reaction of the occupant when subjected to the forward inertia force specified in Sec. 25.561. Berths must be free from corners and protuberances likely to cause injury to a person occupying the berth during emergency conditions.
(f) Each seat or berth, and its supporting structure, and each safety belt or harness and its anchorage must be designed for an occupant weight of 170 pounds, considering the maximum load factors, inertia forces, and reactions among the occupant seat, safety belt, and harness for each relevant flight and ground load condition (including the emergency landing conditions prescribed in Sec. 25.561). In addition--
(1) The structural analysis and testing of the seats, berths, and their supporting structures may be determined by assuming that the critical load in the forward, sideward, downward, upward, and rearward directions (as determined from the prescribed flight, ground, and emergency landing conditions) acts separately or using selected combinations of loads if the required strength in each specified direction is substantiated. The forward load factor need not be applied to safety belts for berths.
(2) Each pilot seat must be designed for the reactions resulting from the application of the pilot forces prescribed in Sec. 25.395.
(3) The inertia forces specified in Sec. 25.561 must be multiplied by a factor of 1.33 (instead of the fitting factor prescribed in Sec. 25.625) in determining the strength of the attachment of each seat to the structure and each belt or harness to the seat or structure.
(g) Each seat at a flight deck station must have a restraint system consisting of a combined safety belt and shoulder harness with a single-point release that permits the flight deck occupant, when seated with the restraint system fastened, to perform all of the occupant's necessary flight deck functions. There must be a means to secure each combined restraint system when not in use to prevent interference with the operation of the airplane and with rapid egress in an emergency.
(h) Each seat located in the passenger compartment and designated for use during takeoff and landing by a flight attendant required by the operating rules of this chapter must be:
[(1) Near a required floor level emergency exit, except that another location is acceptable if the emergency egress of passengers would be enhanced with that location. A flight attendant seat must be located adjacent to each Type A or B emergency exit. Other flight attendant seats must be evenly distributed among the required floor-level emergency exits to the extent feasible.]
(2) To the extent possible, without compromising proximity to a required floor level emergency exit, located to provide a direct view of the cabin area for which the flight attendant is responsible.
(3) Positioned so that the seat will not interfere with the use of a passageway or exit when the seat is not in use.
(4) Located to minimize the probability that occupants would suffer injury by being struck by items dislodged from service areas, stowage compartments, or service equipment.
(5) Either forward or rearward facing with an energy absorbing rest that is designed to support the arms, shoulders, head, and spine.
(6) Equipped with a restraint system consisting of a combined safety belt and shoulder harness unit with a single point release. There must be means to secure each restraint system when not in use to prevent interference with rapid egress in an emergency.
(i) Each safety belt must be equipped with a metal to metal latching device.
(j) If the seat backs do not provide a firm handhold, there must be a handgrip or rail along each aisle to enable persons to steady themselves while using the aisles in moderately rough air.
(k) Each projecting object that would injure persons seated or moving about the airplane in normal flight must be padded.
(l) Each forward observer's seat required by the operating rules must be shown to be suitable for use in conducting the necessary enroute inspection.

Amdt. 25-88, Eff. 12/9/96


Notice paragraph (d) that mandates more than a simple lap belt if the seat back in front of you is tilted more than 18 degrees. Its a headstrike issue. There is a ton of guidance material that is derived from these standards...but that would take even more room!

Changes in seating configuration must be approved and compliance with the relevant airworthiness standards established. So in short, ops don't have direct control on whether or not you need to recline. Its an aircraft certification issue.


User currently offlineShark From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4401 times:

If anyone's interested in the real reason! You can see in the above photo that some seatbacks on the left are folded forward. In this case they have been deliberately pushed forward to provide more space, and its a design feature of the seats - western airline seats don't have that feature, but you see the idea.


Crosswind Yes you are correct about the breakover function of the seat. Its only are few inches that the seat will go forward with the breakover. As far as the seats folding forward on western airlines it can be done. We carry strechers on our 737's and MD80s. In order to secure the stretcher kit the seats must be folded forward.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4155 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Agrodemm, you have yet to fly the A320. The back row is the most comfortable row in the whole plane (not counting FC of course). The seats recline further back, and you can keep it back during T/O and landing. A NWA F/A even said that this is the only row in the plane you can recline during those phases of flight, with the reason being there is noone behind you that needs to get out in case of an emergency. So, if you don't mind the smell of the lav directly behind you, try to get a back row. Most likely you will also get more than one seat you can use, since most people request NOT to be put there, because they think the seats don't recline  Smile


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