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B1900 - Accidents In 2003  
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2130 times:

Last year wasn't a great year for the B-1900. Is there any word as to what may have caused the two accidents that happened in the U.S. last year?

[Edited 2004-01-26 00:19:31]


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

Last I heard, they where looking into miss rigged flight controls as both a/c had repairs to the elevator systems JUST before the accidents. Problems with the AMM were also found where the text said one thing, and the figures (drawings) showed something else.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2030 times:

The underlying issue is weight. The FAA has reviewed the method in which the load is controlled in smaller commuter aircraft.

The sad fact is people are getting fatter and the normal average weights the airlines were applying to passengers was well short of actuals, causing serious weight and balance disturbances.

The guidelines have since been changed, and they tend to weigh your carry-on now before you board these smaller airplanes.

Personally, I avoide the type when flying in the US...not because of the design, because of the class of carrier and the relative experience levels of the flight crews. Just my opinion based on my comfort level...


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2026 times:

Weight with an empty aircraft....?? In the Colgan crash the aircraft was being ferried out with no passangers.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineApathoid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

The crash in Charolette MAY have been caused due to elevator trim controls being improperly rigged. Speculation is that the turnbuckles on the elevator trim control cables may have come into contact with each other causing a bind.

The Albany crash was due to the elevator trim indicator not being properly indexed after maintenance causing erroneous indication. The mechanic removed the trim indicator to access a pin he was changing on the throttle quadrant and failed to properly rig it after he was done.

An Airworthiness Directive was issued last year as a result of an incident with a 1900 in Hyannis, MA. This AD was issued to correct a defeciency in the maintenance manual that MAY have led to the elevator trim cables being improperly rigged due to an improper illustration in the maintenance manual.

Passenger weights were initially looked at for the Charolette crash, but are no longer considered to be a factor although a shift in the baggage may still be part of the scenario.

All of this is available at www.ainonline.com if you care to read the reports instead of making half educated (half assed???) guesses.



[Edited 2004-01-26 04:48:56]

[Edited 2004-01-26 04:50:46]

User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1998 times:

instead of making half educated (half assed???) guesses.


There are certainly more civilized and eloquent ways to offer corrections. I based my answer on the last bit of research I did. Obviously I didn't follow the resolution as closely as you did apathoid, but thanks for the scolding....





User currently offlineApathoid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1972 times:

My point is only that legitimate sources of information are available for questions like this and arm chair experts who don't do their homework ought not state their opinions as fact. Much that happens in aviation is grossly misrepresented on this site, although tech ops tends to be a little more accurate than the other forums. This is what I do for a living, so I pay attention.

Don't worry, it wasn't personally directed at you and I am certain that my opinion of you doesn't much matter to you...it shouldn't anyway. Just a rant to vent a little frustration.

People really ought to take what is said in here with a grain of salt...the truth is out there, but not always in here....


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1958 times:

The crash in ALB, which crash in ALB............???? Last I knew the crew aborted take off when they received a 'Config Warning' alarm. This is what I do for a living, so I pay attention.




"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineApathoid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1932 times:

Got me...thanks for the scolding.



User currently offlineScooterTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 569 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

Apathoid is correct... Weight probably had very little to do with the tragic crash of the Air Midwest BE1900D in CLT last January. However, it is clear that the average passenger and bag weights needed to be reviewed. We Americans need to be eating fewer airport cheeseburgers, apparently.

The deeper issue surrounding the AMW BE1900D accident is one of oversight of contract maintenance. In this case, it has been clearly established that the Raytheon contractor in Huntington, W.V. did an inadequate job training its employees and ensuring that they followed the appropriate procedures. It is also evident that AMW, wholly-owned by Mesa Air Group, did not provide adequate supervision of the maintenance facility to ensure maintenance was being performed to standard. The FAA is also lacking in it's enforcement of the rules and regulations pertaining to contract maintenance operations.

We have seen all of this before in other accidents. In my view, contract maintenance is a detriment to safety because it is so far removed from the more rigorous inspection requirements placed upon airline maintenance departments. Having had personal experience with both in-house and contract maintenance, I can also say that the quality of the product turned out by in-house mechanics is consistently higher than that of contracted mechanics.


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