NWA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1200 posts, RR: 4 Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1418 times:
I will get my ppl before may this year, and I want to go get my multi. I was wondering, do you think thats wise? Should I build more hours in flying before getting it? I would get it about2 months after I got my ppl. Any thoughts? Instructors advie would be great. Thanks.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
Sushka From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 4784 posts, RR: 16 Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1370 times:
You need 250 hours under part 61 for your commercial. You could do like me and get your private and instrument and then multi-engine rating to build hours. Then get your comm/multi.
If you are doing 141 I would seriously consider doing it this way. That way you will get a lot of things done as quickly as possible.
The checkride is not that hard. You don't have to do single engine maneuvers like lazy eights and chandelles, etc. You basically just have to learn to fly a multi on one engine. Getting your single engine commercial is harder.
Now im working on my single engine add on and it is far easier doing it in a much slower airplane (Cessna 152) after flying a Cessna 310
KAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1955 posts, RR: 37 Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1364 times:
Obtain your multi-engine rating as soon as possible, assuming you have the money. Multi time is gold, better to be flying around in a twin to build time for your commercial, assuming the insurance will allow it of course.
NWA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1200 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1351 times:
I would already be working on the IR when I get the multi.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
Sushka From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 4784 posts, RR: 16 Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1329 times:
It is probably better to get your instrument in a single. That way you can learn how to do approaches and things at a slower pace. But once you have your instrument you have to get instrument privileges for your multi rating. All you do is one approach on one engine.
Multi flying is a lot of fun. For me it felt like flying a WWII bomber!
NWA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1200 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1319 times:
Money is not an issue. See, at my flight school, they have a twin, for cheap. $106 an hour. Seneca I. and if you guys think, skill wise, it wont be to hard to get it, I am going to get it. Again, money is no issue. SO, I want to get as much mulit time in that as possible.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
Sushka From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 4784 posts, RR: 16 Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1318 times:
That is really cheap, maybe too cheap. How often is that plane offline? That may be something you might want to look into.
It took me about eight months to get my multi just because of problems with the planes. Hopefully the Seneca does not have any problems.
NWA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1200 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1316 times:
No, its in great shape. Its the only multi at JCC, which I guess has the safest flight record for any JC. Now, IF I get my multi, does my instructor have the have an MEI to train me in that multi aircrat for me to get my instrument in a multi? My instructor has a ME, but not MEI.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
7574EVER From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 478 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1305 times:
After getting my PPL single, I had my PPL multi added to my certificate within two weeks. ATP was offering the private multi course for $1300 consisting of 10 hours of flight time. Knowing that multi time is gold, I jumped on this opportunity for cheap twin time. Although now that I have my instrument, my certificate has a MEL VFR only restriction on it. After I have my commercial (hopefully tomorrow. I've gotten the oral done but I've been waiting for two weeks to get a good day to go fly) I will have to redo the multi to get instrument and commercial privileges. You said that money is not an issue. GO FOR IT. Luckily for me, money is also not an issue which is why I did it. Many people were trying to discourage me from doing the multi because of my lack of experience. Of course this is a legitimate concern. However, a lot of others told me that if I had the cash, go for it. Now that I've filled your head with encouragement, let me bring you back down to earth and give you a realistic view on things. Keep in mind that the Seneca is a fast and complicated machine. This makes it very easy to get into trouble. I would recommend spending a fair amount of time in a high-performance/complex single before getting behind the controls of the Seneca. However, if you could find an aircraft like a Seminole or duchess, this may make the twin transition (with very little or no complex/high-performance time) a little easier. I started out flying a Seminole and I found it to be a good intro to twins. After building a little experience I moved up to flying Barons and 310s. The Seminole is pretty slow for a twin and has counter-rotating props which eliminates the critical engine. Also keep in mind that there are insurance minimums to meet before flying a twin solo. All places that I've looked at, to even fly a Seminole solo takes 50 hours of twin time. The minimums for me to fly the Baron or 310 solo is 500 total and 50 twin with ten hours in type. I would guess your Seneca would be similar to the Baron and 310. Simple fact of the matter is that even though I'm multi rated I can't fly them without an MEI on board because I don't have 50 hours of twin time. Although I plan on meeting that requirement real soon. Ultimately the decision is up to you. I can't sit here and tell you don't do it, because I did it. Do I regret it? HELL NO!!! So definitely go for it if you can, but be aware that you will reap very little benefits. Don't expect to jump in a twin the day after getting the ticket and fly a plane load of your buddies for a $100, oh wait your taking a twin, a $500 hamburger. You have a long road of multi time building ahead of you before you can do that. However, if you have your private multi, whenever you fly with an MEI to build twin time and/or do your commercial multi, you can log it as PIC which is very nice time to have. Sorry to ramble on, but to summarize, go for it. But, know what your in for. If you decided to do it, definitely try to get at least a little complex/high-performance experience first. Good luck and happy flying. Let us know how it goes.
[Edited 2004-02-09 06:10:21]
Right rudder....Right rudder...Come on, more right rudder....Right rudder......Aw forget it, I quit!!
Sushka From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 4784 posts, RR: 16 Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1300 times:
7574EVER, good luck on your checkride. I had the same weather thing happening to me during the months of December and January.
NWA you will need an MEI for your multi/instrument training. There are requirements for cross country flights under IFR so the instructor would need to be PIC
7574EVER From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 478 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1294 times:
"There are requirements for cross country flights under IFR so the instructor would need to be PIC" - Sushka
That's true, but I think he can log it as PIC as long as they're not in actual.
Right rudder....Right rudder...Come on, more right rudder....Right rudder......Aw forget it, I quit!!
Jhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6195 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1286 times:
I've seen people even do their PPLs in a twin, although I definitely recommend getting some experience under your belt by stepping up gradually to a complex single and then working your way into twins. JMHO.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
Jetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1279 times:
For what it's worth, my advice would be to hold off on the Multi until after you've got the Commercial and the Instrument checkrides out of the way. I don't care if money is no object or not, all you're doing is stroking your ego - a VFR Multi on a Private ticket is probably one of the most worthless things that you could do with $1500. If you've got the money to spend, do something that will really add to your skills and abilities - get your glider rating or do some aerobatic training. The multi is almost a "gimme" rating anyway, if you wait until you've got the commercial and instrument you'll only have to take the checkride once.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1242 times:
Private ASEL
Instrument
Commercial ASEL
then Multi.
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that if you get a private ASEL then the multi you have a private ASMEL. Then when you get your commercial you still have
Commercial pilot ASEL
Private pilot privileges AMEL
And you have to take another multi checkride to make the multi commercial. I may be wrong about this, I have been past those milestones for many years but that is the way it used to work anyway.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
NWA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1200 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1220 times:
Ok guys. Thanks a lot. I asked because I anot not sure how to go about all of it. I HSOULD have my commercial next year with a CFI ticket. Thts the college program, but I want to add a CFII and a MEI onto it, which I can. Money for this is not a problem. I just wanted to knwo from people that have been there what they would suggest. I am getting my Instrument, or starting to, after I get my ppl. well, I'll get my ppl, and get a complex, then Instrument. So, I'll get my multi after I finish the comm. Thanks guys.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
Socalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 511 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1181 times:
Very important to get that instrument. It makes you a way better pilot, and although the twin time is good, the knowledge you get with you instrument is GOLD. I would wait on the Multi till you are ready for the commercial and knock the commercial multi out at once!
SupraZachAir From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 632 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1177 times:
I'm going to be doing my multi after my ppl, and do the rest of the training multi. I'm really looking to build as much multi time as I can. Thats me though.
SupraZachAir From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 632 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1161 times:
My goal is to get into a regional airline, and the main things (i'm told) they look for is multi time and total time. Therefor its in my benefit to gain multi time as i go through my ratings/certificates; rather than spending the money on ratings in a single, then having to spend money later on in a multi, or hope i have plenty of multi students to teach... Pay now or pay later, thats how i look at it. Some people may choose another path based on their goals, but from all the people I've talked to, they all strongly recommended getting into a multi early, and building as much time in it as i can. Like you said earlier, the multi rating is a gimme, so why not take the gimme and put it to use in you instrument training. Like I said though, if you're not headed for the airlines, there's really no point whatsoever in doing the multi early, save an ego boost (as you stated before .
Jetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1131 times:
SupraZachAir...
First of all, let me say that I'm not trying to rain on your parade. As several guys have mentioned, there have been many folks who have done all of their advanced training in multi-engined aircraft. Hey look at the military, they're the best example that it works. There are down sides to it however. First of all, if you're doing it only to build multi time thinking that it will give you a leg up on the competition when it come time to be hired you will probably be disappointed. There is no magic formula to ensure success when it comes to landing that entry level airline job. If there was, then EVERYONE would have figured it out by now and EVERYONE would be doing it - period.
If you were one of my close friends and came to me for advise I would still recommend that you follow the traditional track. Granted, occassionally you will run into guys who fell into an opportunity or had a job handed to them, but you need to understand that those guys are the exception rather than the rule. For the rest of us (the other 99.5%), we're going to have to pay our dues the old fashioned way. Doing it the way you mentioned, I could see where you could find yourself in a position where you miss out on the good "entry level" time building jobs - the ones that pay crap but put a lot of quality hours in the log book.
You are spot on when you say that multi-engine and total time are most important. However, don't over estimate the importance of multi time or under estimate the importence of total time. It's a simple fact that for the price of one hour of twin time you can log 3 to 4 hours (or more) of single engine time. The only way that you can get a significant amount (250 - 500 hours) of twin time is my geting a job where you are paid to fly them. I see guys, fresh out of the military, with around 1000 total hours (all but 40 hours or so of multi-engine jet) that are uninsurable because of their low total time. All of their high performance jet time doesn't overcome their low total time.
You are definitely not going to walk up to an airline or corporate chief pilot with a "wet" commercial license and a few hours of multi time and get a job. Like anything else, you've got to pay your dues and get some experience. This isn’t the military and corporations and most domestic airlines don't do "ab initio" training. There aren't very many, if any, "thousand hour wonders" in airline or corporate cockpits these days – the insurance companies have made sure of that. What most employers (airline or corporate) are looking for are pilots who has "been around the block" a few times. We're talking someone with significant single-pilot IFR time in multi-engine airplanes. How do you get that initial experience? There are as many ways as there are pilots, but unless you’re military or very lucky it will mean that you’re going to spend some time flight instructing, then on to flying freight or charter, single-pilot, in clapped out Navajos, twin-Cessnas, or heaven forbid, twin-Beeches. Although these are definitely not the glamour jobs, those guys quickly learn what it is to go around the block a few times. A few years of that kind of flying and they're ready for almost anything else that comes along be it airline or corporate.
To make it in this business you have to be very focused, almost fanatical. It's rare that you ever hear of anyone having a successful aviation career who stumbled into it because he/she didn't have anything better to do.
SupraZachAir From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 632 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1102 times:
I'll be in a Seminole...
Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree, old school versus new school. I'm gonna kinda jump points as they enter my brain here. I see your points, but I just think the price difference between multi and single is not so detrimental that it negates the impotance of having multi experience. Given two people who both have 1000 hours, same ratings, etc. , except one has 400 multi hours and the other has 75 multi hours who's going to look more appealing? I'm not low-balling the importance of total time, just saying that multi/total ratio plays a mentionable factor, when total time is equal. I think maybe the assumption that flying multi means less hours then flying a single (for cost or whatever) is whats putting a kink in that argument. I'm going to do the learning on the multi then add on the single rather than vice versa. We'll chat in a few years and I'll let you know if I regret doing it this way.
I'll maybe add more later but i have to go to ground school.
Sushka From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 4784 posts, RR: 16 Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1095 times:
Yes I like your idea. When I needed to build my 250 hours for my commercial license. I saw no reason to split all that time in single engine airplanes. Instead I chose to kill two birds with one stone and get a multi.
When I got closer to 250 I realized that I didn't need a private multi so I just flew for about 20 more hours and got my Commercial in it.
If you have enough money do it. But you will need your single engine rating to get good time as a CFI.
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
25 SupraZachAir: Yes I like your idea. When I needed to build my 250 hours for my commercial license. I saw no reason to split all that time in single engine airplanes
26 Pilotpip: I would have to agree with the people that suggest getting the instrumetn and comm first. You're going to need it, and you should also get the instrum
27 SupraZachAir: Good discussion. But whats the difference if you get your multi after your private then move into the instrument there after. Why not take a month (or
28 Sushka: Like I said before You should get your instrument first in a single. Learning to fly a perfect ILS approach is hard, especialy when you are slowing fr
29 SlamClick: Lots of good advice above. All of it free for the signup here. What a deal! Now I'm going to offer on more bit that you did not ask for. Please, never
30 SupraZachAir: Definitely good points there. Gives you a lot to consider. Lucky for me I'm just starting and I have plenty of time to decide. I've also got a great i
31 Pilotpip: In my mind, there isn't much that is more dangerous than single engine into IMC at night. You have no out if your engine fails, and my personal minimu
32 NWA: Well, after my ppl, I will be getting a complex. Sadly, the insurance will not alow me to fly that, the one at the flight center at least, without and
33 Woodreau: Isn't insurance a bummer?... Out here in California I'm allowed to fly light twins with 150TT and 10 hours in a multi aircraft (which I reached very q
34 Sushka: For me I think I have to have around 50 Multi to solo in the plane.
35 Jetguy: You guys have finally figured it out... Simply having a rating in your pocket means little. You need to understand that it's not the FAA that says tha
36 SupraZachAir: Well I'll take my PIC/dual received in a multi over PIC/dual received in a single. Insurance is a bummer, but if it requires 'X' hours multi time to s
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1200 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 632 posts, 
. 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
