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DC-10/MD-11/MD-10 Type Ratings  
User currently offlineIluv727s From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 115 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5514 times:

How different are they? Other than the DC-10 having a FE/3 person flight deck, do these 3 A/C share a similar type rating or all they all separate?

[Edited 2004-02-18 00:58:54]


A lack of planning on your behalf does not create an emergency on my behalf.
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

The DC-10 has a different type rating than the MD-10/11. The MD-10 and MD-11 have the same type rating the last I heard. Several years ago pilots at Fed Ex were voicing some "concerns" about this. What came of this I don not know.

User currently offlineFoxHunter From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5440 times:

MD10 is only flown with a MD11 Type. Most of those that voiced concerns did it out of either ignorance or for union political reasons. There were probably more differences between the 727-100 and -200 or the DC8 -55 and-63.

User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5412 times:

One could suspect that part of the reason was that contract negotiation time was near.  Big grin

User currently offlineN685FE From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

It also meant that the MD11 pilots now were forced to fly domestic lines mixed in with the international lines. No more flying a few times a month and having the rest off.


psp. lead by example
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5390 times:

Most of those that voiced concerns did it out of either ignorance or for union political reasons.

That is not true. There are significant differences and many people are convinced that, while the MD-11 prepares you for the MD-10, the reverse is far from true.

The landing phase is particularly different.

N


User currently offlineFoxHunter From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

Gigneil
"That is not true. There are significant differences and many people are convinced that, while the MD-11 prepares you for the MD-10, the reverse is far from true.

The landing phase is particularly different."

Curious how you would know that to be a fact. I fly both and disagree. The pilots that evaluated the MD10 for the union felt the same. No big deal.  Smile


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5294 times:

Foxhunter:

How do you like flying the MD-10? Reason I ask is that during my Boeing Flight Test days I helped install some of the test equipment on the two test aircraft. Actually got to see the Fed Ex DC-10 that latter became test bird number two arrive at LBG.


User currently offlineFoxHunter From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5260 times:

LMP737 asks:
"How do you like flying the MD-10? Reason I ask is that during my Boeing Flight Test days I helped install some of the test equipment on the two test aircraft. Actually got to see the Fed Ex DC-10 that latter became test bird number two arrive at LBG."

I like it, but since I usually fly international I don't fly it that often. I find the biggest difference is the operation of the flap handle. The MD10 has the original DC10 handle. The MD10-10 is a bit under powered, has the same thrust with three engines that the MD11 has with two. The FMS is a lot faster in the MD10. Now that all MD11 crews are qualified it makes scheduling a lot simpler. Run out of MD11s and replace it with a MD10 or the reverse. Under normal circumstances the MD10 is a domestic airplane but in a pinch they have sent the MD10-30 to Europe. Last time I checked we have 27 MD10-10s, 5 MD10-30s, and 42 MD11s, with 5 more MD10-10s scheduled for delivery by the end of December 04, and 8 -10s, 1 -30 scheduled in 05, plus the remaining aircraft in later years. I believe we will eventually have 89 MD10s.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5252 times:

Foxhunter:

Thanks for the info. A while back I remember the MD-10 program was put on hold. What was the reason or am I just going senile in my early thirties? Interesting to hear that the MD-10's FMS is faster than the MD-11's. Must be that Honeywell VIA.


User currently offlineFoxHunter From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5241 times:

LMP737
"Thanks for the info. A while back I remember the MD-10 program was put on hold. What was the reason or am I just going senile in my early thirties?"

There have always been stories, "It will never happen", "The program will stop at 6 aircraft converted", "The FAA will refuse to certify it", and all so far have turned out to be untrue. There has been some changes in the conversion schedule and it seems to be stretched out another couple of years. Things and requirements change. We shall see.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

Foxhunter:

Thanks for the info. Seems to me Fed Ex wants to stretch out the expense of the conversion program, quite understandable.


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5163 times:


LMP737

I know that Douglas/Boeing/FEDEX had a tough time to get the FAA to buy off on the MD11 type for the MD10 program.

Foxhunter:

Lots of rumors about Fedex looking at purchasing MD11's, any truths?



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User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5154 times:

I know that Douglas/Boeing/FEDEX had a tough time to get the FAA to buy off on the MD11 type for the MD10 program.

Heck, with the FAA, getting an STC to fit a 200hp IO-360 in place of a 180hp one can be a hard time!

Steve


User currently offlineFoxHunter From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5136 times:

LMP737
"Lots of rumors about Fedex looking at purchasing MD11's, any truths?"

At one time we were going to buy all the Swiss MD11s. That deal was cancelled, but since the aircraft works very well in the system I would expect to see more sometime in the future. I just fly them so I really have no knowledge of the real future plans. Just like the story that the MD10 program would stop with 6 aircraft converted that was told with great authority. Since we now are flying 32 it shows how valid crew room rumors are. Smile


User currently offlineNightFlyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 95 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5126 times:

Lol, I'll still jumpseat with guys sometimes that think the MD10 program is cancelled. I tell them to look closely next time they are in MEM at all the little MD10's painted on the noses.  Smile

I'm kinda curious if FedEx ever looked at the 777 as a freighter and how it would compare with the MD11F. Have you heard anything about that FoxHunter? Thanks.


NightFlyer <---MD11 newbie


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

FoxHunter, you can confirm this. The MD-11 software, in order to fit the MD-10's more benign pitch characteristics, was changed so that the pitch was a little less sensitive, particularly during landings, especially within 100 feet of the ground (maybe it was 50 feet?).

This was in the February issue of Flying magazine by a FedEx pilot who's flown both the MD-10 and MD-11.


User currently offlineFoxHunter From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5087 times:

MD-90 asks
"FoxHunter, you can confirm this. The MD-11 software, in order to fit the MD-10's more benign pitch characteristics, was changed so that the pitch was a little less sensitive, particularly during landings, especially within 100 feet of the ground (maybe it was 50 feet?)."

There was a software change in the MD11 about the time the MD10 was certified. Probably would have happened even without a MD10 program. The one thing it did was eliminate the occasional pitch up at touchdown. Other than that I really never noticed any change in handling.



User currently offlineTiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5035 times:

FoxHunter:
A question slightly off topic, but what kind of space in the crew rest areas do the flight crews have? And how many crew members do you take when flying across the pond?

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Also, are the three dark red handles on the top panel the fire bottle levers? Just curious.



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5026 times:

The size of the crew rest stations would depend on the airline. Usually the crew rest station is behind the cockpit on the left hand side. Thai airways has a small on in this location. As far as relief crews go I'll leave that for a pilot to answer. Your turn Foxhunter.  Smile

Yes those three red handles are the fire handles. When pulled they shut off the fuel to the engines, shut off the hydraulic pumps, shut off pneumatics and trips the generator field. Turning the handle clockwise or counter clockwise fires off the fire bottles. On a side note the smaller red handle next to the engine fire handles is the APU fire handle.


User currently offlineFoxHunter From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5036 times:


"A question slightly off topic, but what kind of space in the crew rest areas do the flight crews have?"

Most have two seats outside the cockpit, a few with a hard bulkhead vs a cargo net have six seats, and some have a "Crew Rest Facility" which has two bunks. The crew rest facility is only used in cruise because when it is expanded for use it blocks door L1.

"And how many crew members do you take when flying across the pond?"

Depends, if less than 8 hours block time two pilots, 8-12 hours three pilots, 12+ hours four pilots. ANC-NRT 2, EWR-CDG 2, MEM-CDG 3, CDG-SFS 4, KIX-MEM 4. Some legs like EWR-STN-CDG only two are actually required but we always fly with 3.

"Also, are the three dark red handles on the top panel the fire bottle levers? "

Fire Levers, used to shut off fuel, hydraulics, air, and electrics for a given engine.


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