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777 First Plane To Cross Oceans With Only 2 Engine  
User currently offlineJasonwinn From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 45 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 7073 times:

Hey everyone,
I have heard this repeated a few times at some get togethers with family. Some relatives claimed that the FAA spent a lot of time certifying the 777 because it was the first plane to cross the ocean with only 2 engines.

I found this hard to believe, I thought that the 753 and 767 were crossing oceans from north america well before the 777 came into service.

Could someone clear this up for me?

Thanks!
jason Winn

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 7018 times:

Oh, yeah, the 767's where going across long before.

I should note also Alcock and Brown flew the Atlantic in a twin also.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5490 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7009 times:

As noted above, the 777 is hardly the first ETOPS-certified plane.

What was unique about the 777 is that its design and flight test regime were intended from the beginning to yield the ETOPS certification without having to build up a record of operation in certificated non-ETOPS applications.

The 777 was ETOPS certified from the start.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6202 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7005 times:

I thought the 757-300 was built after the 777.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineJasonwinn From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6983 times:

Thanks alot for the info!
Heres a one more, what was the first plane that was ETOPS certified?


User currently offlineMD-11 forever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 6942 times:

"Heres a one more, what was the first plane that was ETOPS certified?"

I guess that honour goes to the A300........

Cheers, Thomas


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 6938 times:

Was it the A300 or the 767?

I wonder because the A300 wasn't optimised for long haul routes, It was a medium route aircraft. The 767 was optimised for longer trips.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 6909 times:

The A300 was first, but the 767 soon became the mainstay of ETOPS particularly over the North Atlantic.

Remember that ETOPS applies to routes through Africa, UK/Europe to the Indian Ocean Islands, etc... not just the Atlantic / Pacific crossings.



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 6852 times:

The first extended overwater flights with a twin jet were accomplished by Air France A-300's from JFK to Martinique on a seasonal basis in the late 1970's, before the ETOPS requirement was defined.

User currently offlineSushka From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 4784 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 6845 times:

757-300s came out after the 777.

A310s, A300s, 767s, were doing it before the 777.



Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6763 times:

For some reason I want to say that a TWA 762 flying transatlantic in the early 80's was the first flight under ETOPS...could be wrong though...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineA/c train From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 501 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6759 times:

I crossed the pond on a 752 almost 13 years ago. ETOPS approved a/c with HMG and all of course  Wink/being sarcastic.
regards
a/c


User currently offlineEmbqa From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6728 times:

Don't forget that Gina Yeager and Burt Rutan crossed both oceans, WITHOUT stopping with a twin engine airplane........!!!!!


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6387 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6677 times:

...and Charles Lindberg crossed the pond on a single engine 77 years ago...

(Not ETOPS certified though, maybe ESOPS???)  Big thumbs up



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6667 times:

No, The Spirit of St. Louis was certified on that old standard... AWAP(A Wing and A Prayer)  Wink/being sarcastic

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6572 times:

Don't forget the A330 as well.

N


User currently offlineBosugadl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6551 times:

was the 777 the first twin-engine to go across the pacific? I'm talking like LAX-NRT, not LAX/SFO-HNL.

User currently offlineIMisspiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6278 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6552 times:

LAX-HNL causes an aircraft to be farther from a suitable alternate than LAX-NRT. But, since you ask, I'm sure the 777 was the first twin with range to fly trans-pacific nonstop.


Quit calling an airport ramp "Tarmac" and a taxiway "runway".
User currently offlineMoolies From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6187 times:

And lets not forget "Sir" Charles Lindburgh who did it in a single engine plane.

User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7760 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6176 times:

I am almost certain that the first ETOPS flight for a US major was done by TWA in 1985 or 86 with a 767-200 flying BOS-LHR.

As for transpac stuff. 757s and 767s have been doing mainland to Hawaii (at least the outer islands) flights fairly extensively since the early 90s after DL and UA retired their Super DC-8 fleets. I would think that maybe AC or CP might have used 767s on some transpac routes from YVR and certainly to Hawaii and onward to Austrailia. Though the 777 was probably the first twin to regularly do extensive transpac longhauls.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineSLCPilot From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 580 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6085 times:

"Don't forget that Gina Yeager and Burt Rutan crossed both oceans, WITHOUT stopping with a twin engine airplane........!!!!!"

Sorry, I couldn't resist a few corrections here.

It was JEANA Yeager and DICK Rutan (Burt was the designer) that crossed THREE oceans. Two of these oceans were crossed with a single engine running.

There's a neat story in their book about the controller's disbelief as the plane started it's crossing of the Indian Ocean. The controller, unfamiliar with the plane, didn't think they were serious about crossing the ocean.

SLCPilot

PS> The Voyager team thought it might actually take two or three attempts to complete the goal.



I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6073 times:

was the 777 the first twin-engine to go across the pacific? I'm talking like LAX-NRT, not LAX/SFO-HNL.

AC flies from YVR to a variety of Asian destinations with the 763.

N


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6054 times:

China Southern was the first airline to operate a nonstop transpacific twinjet crossing from East Asia to the USA

American was the first airline to ever utilize ETOPS207 with N777AN (very appropriate aircraft)  Big grin


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3148 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6007 times:

TWA was the first airline to fly a 767-200 under ETOPS rules in the early 80s. The 777 was the first airliner that was certified for ETOPS from the beginning.

As for the Voyager, you can see it in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum. I don't recall if they fixed the winglets or left them as they were. They were damaged on take off roll. Rumor has it that after Burt Rutan gets the X-prize (his design is the closest to this feat the in the competition) he wants to set the endurance record for a turbojet based on the Voyager.



DMI
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6005 times:

And if you're ever at the EAA Museum in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, they have a mockup of the Voyager, and it's cutaway so you can see the inside ... boy ... you think an 18 hour flight in economy plus on SIA is bad... wow.

25 Post contains links and images SLCPilot : I wonder of the jet endurance record will be done with this plane? http://www.virginatlanticglobalflyer.com/ BTW, does anybody know the current record
26 Embqa : SLCPilot- Thanks....... I was trying to remember 'WHICH' Rutan did the flight. I guessed wrong. ..........I think the 'Voyager' also holds the time al
27 IMisspiedmont : SLCPilot, it's a Scaled Composites aircraft, of course it will beat the current record for unrefueled turbine aircraft. I can't think of a single inst
28 Soulman : Not sure on the exact record IMisspiedmont, but I believe the B-2's that flew non-stop from Whiteman to Afghanistan and return were in the air for som
29 L-188 : I can't think of a single instance when Rutan has failed to follow through on a promise. His Grizzley, which was an attempt to makea bushplane, jumps
30 Air1727 : Trans World was the first carrier to have FAA approved ETOPS exemptions in its opspecs for the 767-200ER; which was also the first ETOPS certified twi
31 Timz : "Does anyone know what the longest time ever spent airborne is, and where, when and with which aircraft?" Is it still the C172 in 1958?
32 Post contains images MD-90 : Voyager does not hold the endurance record for time spent aloft. Their trip was 9 days, 3 minutes, and 44 seconds. Design range was 22,778 nm. Eat you
33 Cancidas : doesn't the 757 do trans-atlantic runs also?
34 ConcordeBoy : yes
35 IMissPiedmont : Darn, I thought I might have posed a 4 day stumper. But then, I did post the question on this site.
36 Brubiac : Sabena flew almost every day with a A310-300 (OO-SCC) BRU-BOS-BRU back in the '90s
37 Post contains images BA : No... that'd be the Spirit of St. Louis Nope, that would be Alcock and Brown in their Vickers Vimy on June 16, 1919. That would be 8 years before Lind
38 MD-90 : True, but Lindbergh actually landed at a proper aerodrome, and didn't wind up nosing over in a peat bog! The first scheduled transatlantic service was
39 Airgypsy : Let us all remember... ETOPS stands for Engines Turn Or Passangers Swim. The more motors the merrier. Airgypsy
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