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Class C Ops Questions  
User currently offlineSSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2127 times:

I'm planning my long cross country required for my pvt with a stop at one of the less busy class C airports in the area. My questions are in regards to using clearance delivery while operating VFR. First off, if I go off and get fuel, then before I taxi I'm under the presumption that I have to call clearance delivery and tell them I'm VFR, where I'm going, current ATIS, and etc. and they give me runway to use, squawk code, departure heading, and etc. Am I correct here or am I way off somewhere? Also, stupid question, but if I opt for a stop & go provided the airport isn't extremely busy, I'm assuming I don't have to use clearance delivery at all, just stay on the tower freq. unless otherwise advised. Am I correct here? The only reasons I'm asking are I've flown into an airport with TRSA but didn't get much out of the experience given my first instructor was overbearing every chance he got. Thanks for your help guys!

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2090 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

SSTJumbo,

You are correct. It would be something like this:

Daytona Beach Clearance, Cessna 93730 with information Tango, requesting VFR southbound at 3,500'.

93730, after departure fly heading 170 at or below 3,000, squawk 0407, departure frequency will be 123.9.

Fly heading 170, at or below 3,000, squawking 0407, Cessna 93730.

93730, read back is correct, contact ground 121.9 when ready to taxi.


As for the go arounds, I'm not sure if you mean you opt for touch and go's before taxiing, or if you decide to after you have your clearance from ClDlv. If I'm on the ramp and want to do touch and go's, you still call ClDlv and request to stay in the pattern.

Can you clarify in what part of the flight you are deciding you want to do T & G's?

[Edited 2004-02-23 18:45:39]


Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6199 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2084 times:

You don't "have" to use Clearance Delivery, but you really should.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1958 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

On my initial call to clearance, I usually say something like this if I'm going to the local practice area

Me: "Austin Clearance, Cessna 123AB"

Clnc: "Cessna 123AB, Austin clearance, go ahead"

Me: "Cessna 123AB is a cessna 172 outbound to the southeast practice area at two thousand five hundred, X-ray"

Clnc: "Cessna 123AB, departure frequency 118.8, squawk 0221"

Me: "Departure 118.8 squawk 0221 Cessna 123AB"

Clnc: "3AB readback correct contact ground 121.9 for taxi"

Me: "3AB"

Then I simply contact ground before entering a taxiway (ground will tell you which runway to taxi to), go to tower when ready to depart, and talk to approach. It works exactly the same way if you're going to another airport instead of a practice area, just insert the name of the airport where I said "southeast practice area". Approach will will usually issue any altitude restrictions, I don't think I've ever had Clearance Delivery deny me the altitude I've requested. Approach will do it all the time.



User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2090 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2060 times:

The last time I requested an altitude for a flight to St.Augustine from DAB, I was restricted to a different altitude, at least initially.

I usually ask for Ocean South or Ocean North departures (or Flea or Tomoka if taking off West), which is a preset procedure where you squawk 0200, fly runway heading to 800', turn 40 degrees off course until a mile off shore, then fly N or S at 1,100' until clear of the 10 mile radius. We squawk VFR after leaving the 5 mile marker. This is due to DAB's large flight training activity, and saves Clearance some time but not having to deal with us in as much detail. We're staying at 1,100' to avoid the upper shelf of C airspace, so we're radar service terminated minutes after takeoff, without a word being spoken to or from us after the take off is issued. Works nicely.


Daytona Beach Clearance, Cessna 93730 requesting Ocean South with information Hotel.

93730, cleared for Ocean South.

Cleared Ocean South, 93730.


That's it, and I rarely use anything else here at home.



Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2525 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2049 times:

HaveBlue and the others pretty much nailed it...

A couple other things is that clearance usually doesn't give you a heading to fly. You'll probably get an initial heading from the tower prior to takeoff, then when you switch to departure they'll tell you where to go.

Also, instead of just saying you're departing southbound, you can tell them the exact airport you're going to... "Cessna 123ab requesting VFR to XYZ airport at 3500"... in this case they could probably provide you with flight following.


JHooper... as far as I know you have to contact clearance before every flight. It will say in the ATIS something like "all departures must contact clearance delivery on 119.3 prior to taxi"


User currently offlineSSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

When I say stop & go, I'm meaning that I might just request to come to a full stop on the runway then just rev up and get back out, like a touch and go but instead of rolling, stopping. I guess my question now would be would they allow that provided I tell approach or tower my intentions and there isn't too much traffic on the runways. You guys have been a big help, thanks!

User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 978 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2034 times:

Airports are different, at some airports ground will have to call clearance if you don't. At others, clearance will wonder why you're calling them if you're not IFR...

Before doing a stop and go though, make sure you let the tower know your intentions before doing it... At KPVD, I always requested to land long (the last 2000ft of a 6000ft runway for Rwy 34 or last 4000ft of a 7000ft runway for Rwy 5R) before I did it, and the request was always granted...

As long as you and the tower controller work it out what you want to do before hand, you can usually request and get whatever you want.

The Class C airport where I learned to fly (KBTV) clearance didn't want to talk to you if you were VFR... The first Class C airport I flew to after getting my private (KSYR) ground was all over my cookies for not calling clearance first. KPVD the standard procedure was to call up clearance. KADS, I only dealt with clearance if I wanted IFR, flight following, or clearance thru Love Fields Class B airspace. And in SoCal the flight instructor wondered where in the world I learned to fly when I called up Montgomery Clearance (KMYF) for a VFR flight.

So basically if you're not sure you can always ask the FBO if you stopped for fuel, or just call up clearance and tell them what you want (VFR, ATIS, direction of flight/destination, and altitude), and they'll guide you thru the process.

Woodreau / KMVL



Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2029 times:

i usually hate waiting for NY APPROACH to wake up and answer me so i just swing south of the island and go around them. easier that way, and i can continue to monitor someone else's freq. Big grin


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1958 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2035 times:

Most airports that want you to call Clnc before taxi will broadcast "All VFR depatrures Contact Clearance Delivery on 1XX.XX" on ATIS.

User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6199 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2020 times:

Corey07850 wrote:

JHooper... as far as I know you have to contact clearance before every flight. It will say in the ATIS something like "all departures must contact clearance delivery on 119.3 prior to taxi"


Refer to Chapter 5, Section 2 of the AIM. Under 5-2-1 (1) it says "Pilot participation is not mandatory."

However, if the ATIS specifically states "call clearance delivery", I would, of course, call them. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't call them unless I wanted Flight Following outbound or if I intended to request clearance into Class B airspace departing a secondary airport. If it's a Class C airport, remember, you don't need a clearance 'per se' to operate in Class C, only two way communications with ATC.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineN1641 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1987 times:

just call clearance delivery, if they dont want to talk to you they'll tell you to contact ground, no big deal.

I work in a military tower and the way Haveblue said it is the way I would like to hear it, our approach control does like a specific heading or destination over "southbound" like someone else suggested.

Yes if you want to ask for stop n go's ask approach or tower for them, only thing asking approach will do is give tower a heads up as to what you want to do and you should know earlier wether it will work out.


User currently offlineShaun3000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1971 times:

Usually the ATIS will tell you if you need to contact clearance delivery or not.

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