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Passenger Use Of The 747 Cockpit Exit  
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8339 times:

I just got a Tower Air 747 safety video. After recovering from the shock that Tower actually had safety videos I noticed this part.

"Passengers seated in the upper deck must go down the staircase and out the first available exit. If the staircase is blocked an alternate exit is located in the cockpit."


Now that the cockpit has a reinforced door, how does this affect the upper deck evacuation plan. I see that newer 744s have outer exits, but the older ones Tower flew do not.


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Thanks,
AAndrew

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKLM11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 182 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8322 times:

I think some airlines that fly older 747's have an emergency exit out the sides of the cockpit windows. Im not sure, but I saw a saftey card of one and it showed people jumping on to the slide from the cockpit.

--KLM11



BENAIRE - The Refined Airline
User currently offlineDutchflyer From Netherlands, joined Feb 2004, 169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8285 times:

There is a door on the right hand side of the upper deck.


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[Edited 2004-02-28 20:46:15]

User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8280 times:

KLM11,

Thanks for your answer, but now, in the US at least, passengers can't access the cockpit. FAs can't even get into the cockpit unless someone opens the door from inside. If the stairs are blocked and the flight crew members are dead/injured, is the just no way out for upper deck PAX?

AAndrew


User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 972 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8194 times:

KLM11 wrote:
>>>
I think some airlines that fly older 747's have an emergency exit out the sides of the cockpit windows. Im not sure, but I saw a saftey card of one and it showed people jumping on to the slide from the cockpit.
<<<

I have seen B747 upper deck door slides deployed for passenger egress (in the area between galley/lav and the cockpit), but not slides from the cockpit windows. There is a flight crew escape hatch. Does Tower do something radically different?


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User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8146 times:

I don't think the upper deck exit door is within the cockpit area, in which case it can be used by pax. On the -3/400, the exits are in the middle and of course, are available to pax.

On all 747 models, there is an exit in the cockpit; this is the hatch on the roof and is used with a kind of inertia reel pulley (much like you have on a car seat belt), so technically, once those using it have got down, it comes back up and can be used by others - as long as they can actually get into the cockpit.


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8092 times:

Thanks for all of your answers, and thanks for the links, Skydrol!

AAndrew


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17044 posts, RR: 66
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8027 times:

All 747's also have a hatch in the roof of the cockpit. It's set slightly to the left of the centerline behind the pilot seats.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 7960 times:

That's not true...

The 747-400 has a hatch ( I don't know about the 300) but the 200 has a mini-door at floor level just behind the cockpit with it's own slide.

Evac proceedures on the 744 are to climb on the roof and slide down the side of the aircraft by using one of 6 inertia reels . These inertia reels do not reset back to the cockpit!! After all six have been used FA's are to direct passengers up and out and to follow "the spine" of the aircraft on the roof towards the tail until over the wings, where they are to slide down and use the escape slides for door three. Yeah right! Can you imagine the average passenger handling that scenario without freaking out completely!!

As far as the cockpit door, hopefully the FO's will have the foresight to unlock and unarm the darn thing! On the 744 it's not that big of a deal because the FO's will likely be coming back to use the passenger exits anyway as they are much more user-friendly!

FA4UA



The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17044 posts, RR: 66
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7922 times:

Good info thx. I thought it was all versions. I stand corrected.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7813 times:

Pax would probably sue for distress if they had to climb along a 747's back and manage to clamber down to the wing! It is a long way down the side of the fuselage to the wing.

User currently offlineB747Skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

In the 747s, with "regular size" upper deck (100, 200, or SP), the normal emergency exit path is through the stairwell through doors L1 and R1. Secondary emergency exits are the upper deck exit (RH only on some airplanes, LH and RH on some others). The cockpit emergency hatch (top of the cockpit) is never considered for emergency exit for passengers.
xxx
The stretched upper decks such as on the 200-SUD, 300 and 400 have same design, with LH and RH emergency exits in the middle of the upper deck, but their normal emergency exit is generally considered L2 and L1/R1 and R2... again the use of the emergency cockpit hatch is not considered for them.
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper


User currently offlineN777UA From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7674 times:

At my mom's airline (United), the primary exit for 747-400 upper deck passengers is out the upper deck left and right doors. Only supposed to use lower deck doors if in a ditching or if upper doors are inop.

User currently offline747Teach From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7541 times:

Aa757first: You better go with B747Skipper on this one. Some of these other answers have some bad info. First, the 100, 200 and SP have the small door on the right (and sometimes left) side of the upper deck. This is called the Crew Entry Service Door (AMM 52-23-00). It is located at station 405. It is 24 x 48 inches. It is aft of the P6 panel, and forward of the forward wall of the lav (in most standard configurations). It is not in the cockpit. It is accessible to the passengers on the upper deck. Those passengers should exit down the stairwell, and out a main deck door. If that route is not available, they could exit down the slide from the crew entry service door. There are no slides or opening windows in the cockpit.
The aircraft with the 280 inch upper deck (the 300 and 400 models, and 200 models with the mod) do not have the Crew Entry Service Door (in most standard configurations). They have a left and right Upper Deck Door (AMM 52-23-00) at station 666-714. It is 42 x 72 inches. They are equipped with slides. Depending on your airlines operations, passengers may go down the stairwell and out the main deck doors, or exit out through the Upper Deck Doors in an emergency.
All 747's have the emergency exit hatch in the ceiling of the cockpit. It is called the Crew Compartment Overhead Hatch (AMM 52-21-00). It is for the emergency egress of the crew, and not intended for use by the passengers. It is just left of centerline, almost directly above the First Observers seat. Adjacent to the Overhead Hatch in the ceiling, are from 5 to 8 emergency descent devices. These are handles attached to an inertial reel. As the crew exits through the hatch, they will grip the handles and the inertia device (friction brake) will lower them over the side to the ground. The device does not reel back up, rather it remains extended until reset by maintenance.
Hope you find this interesting. Regards,


User currently offlineVC-10 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 1999, 3701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7534 times:
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Crew Entry Service Door...................... It is not in the cockpit.

On all the classics I have worked on the door has been fwd of of the cockpit door. I am not saying you are wrong but just that is not always the case


User currently offline747Teach From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7515 times:

VC-10: You're saying the Crew Entry Service Door is forward of the P6 panel, and forward of station 405? That would put it somewhere outboard of the flight engineer's panel. You're right, I've never seen that configuration. Do you have a reference or picture? Regards,

User currently offlineVC-10 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 1999, 3701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7502 times:
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No, the door will be in the same place but the cockpit/cabin divider b/head is further aft. The gap between the back of P6 and the bulkhead is about 3 ft wide leading straight to the door.

User currently offline747Teach From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7382 times:

VC-10: If you will check the 747-100 -200 AMM, Chapter 06-10-00, page 217 gives this information: Zone 220, Figure 214. Control Cabin (also known as the control cab and cockpit). Fuselage interior upper deck cabin, Sta. 220-425, including the crew emergency exit hatch. This is followed by a second note: Zone 220 does not include the crew side entry door.
On the following page, 218, you have the information for Zone 223, Figure 215. Stateroom (also known as the upper deck passenger cabin). Zone 223 includes fuselage interior aft of the control cabin, including U1 lavatory and stateroom windows.
Therefore, if the Crew Side Entry Door is not in Zone 220, Control Cabin (cockpit), then it must be in Zone 223, which is the Stateroom (upper deck passenger cabin). Regards,


User currently offlineVC-10 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 1999, 3701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7368 times:
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I don't have access the MM's at the moment, but all I can say to get to the crew side door on some Classics you have to walk fwd through the Flt Dk Dr into the c/pit and immediately turn sharp right.

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