Vio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 9 Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10601 times:
Hi,
A rather stupid question. My buddy was flying WestJet today, from YYC to YYZ. He bought a much loved and cheap AGD (Alberta Genuine Draft Beer). He wanted to take it him, but we didn't know if he should check it in, or put it on his carry on.
So... 1st. question. Would you want to put a beer can in an unpressuried compartment?
2nd... are all baggage compartments pressurised? or not?
... i feel ashamed asking this question....
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
757KSLC From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 233 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10548 times:
I don't think they are... I know my shampoo bottle always seems to explode and leak everywhere, as do a few other bottles occasionally. I don't know why they would do this if it was pressurized. On the other hand, when animals travel they go down in the baggage compartment, and I don't think they could survive in an unpreserved environment at FL380 or something.
Good Question. Don't feel ashamed, I don't know the answer either. Or... Maybe we should both be ashamed together?
"That wasn't flying! That was falling with style!" Woody, Toy Story.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10525 times:
At least part of the hold is pressurised as they carry life animals in the hold regularly.
Unless life animals are on board though, it is NOT heated which means that you will have to be careful with any fizzy drinks you check as there might be unpleasant surprised on opening the can/bottle unless you let them get to temperature slowly.
As to leaking bottles, I've never experienced that...
Bohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2430 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10523 times:
Most airliners have pressurized baggage compartments. Some turboprops may have a pressurized compartment and an unpressurized one. (Jetstreams come to mind) As long as you're on a jet, you should be fine.
My biggest concern would be the beer can bursting due to rough baggage handling.
Freshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10512 times:
yes they are pressurized, if they were not then the cargo doors would not blow out in mid-flight causing the floor to collapse like some have in the past, it has the same pressure as in the main cabin. As to your shampoo bottles leaking thats because they abuse your luggage while they are trying to stuff it in the bin.
Andz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8306 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10492 times:
National Geographic had a program on last night about that UA flight from Honolulu where the hold door locks failed causing it to blow out and take a big part of the side of the plane and 9 passengers with it. So I guess the answer is yes.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
757KSLC From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 233 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10476 times:
Those dirty rotten baggage handlers! lol I always thought it was pressure changes!
"That wasn't flying! That was falling with style!" Woody, Toy Story.
Koopas From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 172 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10469 times:
Yes, cargo holds are pressurized. Temperature is certainly different than in the cabin.
Airliner777 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 493 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 10411 times:
Regarding those bottles you guys are worried about, I'll tell you that the problem is the following:
The pressure inside of the shampoo bottle (or any other bottle) goes through a stage of change while the aircraft climbs. This is due to the fact that the cargo compartment is pressurized same as the cabin compartment. Most aircraft cabins are pressurized to a range between 6,000ft MSL to 8,000ft MSL. The pressure inside of the bottle is equal to the pressure altitude when you closed it. As the aircraft climbs, the cabin pressure starts decreasing, then the pressure inside of the bottle tends to equalize it's outside pressure. This is why it expands, and most of the times spills everything all over inside your bag.
Also, I can say that the Ramp Agents sometimes are a "little" abrupt with those bags too.
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15904 posts, RR: 66 Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10312 times:
The shampoo problem is very easy to fix. Just squeeze out most of the air, then close the bottle before packing it. It should then have a "crumpled" appearance. The smaller amount of air inside will expand at the lower pressure in the hold (or in the cabin) but not enough to pop the cork. I always take this precaution with lotion and so forth. As an extra layer of safety, tape the cork closed. Since I started to do this, I have never had a problem with goo all over.
Of course, if your shampoo bottle is full, you have a problem.
As for pressurization, the hold IS! Think about the shape of the airplane. It's easier to make the hull airtight (it's round and already strong) that to make the flat floor a pressure bulkhead.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
Mr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 23 Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10241 times:
Hi Airliner777,
I'm not at high school physics yet so forgive me... . Since the pressure inside the bottle is equal to the pressure altitude when one closes it, why would the pressure decrease as you climb? And why when the pressure lowers the liquid would expand?
Liamksa From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 308 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10227 times:
The pressure inside of the shampoo bottle (or any other bottle) goes through a stage of change while the aircraft climbs.
Gday Mr. BA, it might be this sentence which is confusing you, because the pressure change isn't in the bottle, it's in the compartment. Basically, sea level pressure (if departing a sea level aerodrome) is trapped in the bottle. As the aircraft climbs, the pressure outside the bottle (in the compartment) falls and you have the 'blown up balloon' case. So the pressure differential is trying to force the shampoo out of the bottle (high pressure always wants to get to low pressure eg: air escaping from your tyres, letting go of the balloon etc..)
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15904 posts, RR: 66 Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10187 times:
the liquid does not expand so much as the air in the bottle.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
Avioniker From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 11 Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10168 times:
Let's not forget what happens when liquids freeze. Most aft bag pits aren't heated so your beer will expand exponentially. That plus the difference in your boarding altitude and the 7000 to 8000 foot cabin altitude at cruise equals beerpop.
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
Jetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10165 times:
Most airline baggage compartments are both heated and pressurized. It's been a while, but I don't believe that the temperature is kept more than a few degrees above freezing.
I'm going way back here now, so you 727 types will have to excuse me if my memory is off, but the B727 had a switch in the engineer's panel that controlled the pressurization into the baggage holds. In the event of the loss of pressurization or the failure of one packs the engineer would divert the pressurized air from the baggage compartment to the aircraft cabin. We called the switch the "Puppy Snuffer". Kind of crude, but an effective description of what happened to the animals in the baggage compartment when you flipped the switch.
In case any of you care, in the case of bizjets, some compartments are heated, some aren't. Some are pressurized, others aren't. It depends upon the airplane and the compartment.
Goboeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2635 posts, RR: 12 Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10154 times:
I've heard of another type of "puppy snuffer" from a Saab 340 pilot who was referring to the fire extinguishers in the cargo compartment.
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15904 posts, RR: 66 Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10085 times:
Your beer will be fine. Logically, it should take less energy to heat the whole pressure fuse than just the cabin, since the hull is a better insulator than the floor, which is full of holes anyway.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29367 posts, RR: 61 Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 10078 times:
The puppy snuffer on the 727 controlled heat in the forward compartment, not pressuization.
Someobdy forgot to tell the guys flying the one that brought my 8 week old puppy in. She was pretty cold when she got of the airplane. 8 years later, I still have that dog, which I ended up naming "shivers"
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Smithfly114 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 232 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 10065 times:
Yes cargo holds are pressurized, like stated above they carry live animals in them. The fact of the shampoo leaking is because, although the cabin and cargo holds are pressurized they are not equal to the atmospheric pressure from where you departed, therefore there will still be a change in atmospheric pressure and if there is any air in a container it will still most likely expand. This is why I make sure as much air as possible is out of any containers before I fly - to avoid a mess
-C
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10047 times:
if the airplane is presurized, the cargo bins usually are. on the B1900s the bins aren't presurized. most others i know of are.
At least on the D model, the aft bin has to be. The back wall is not a bulkhead.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10028 times:
Using a travel size shampoo bottle should alleviate all those problems. If it's a screw on type, nothing will happen to it. Also, why are you CHECKING your shampoo??
Plus, beer should be fine, as it's not strong enough to be a fire hazard (The alcohol), plus I regularly ship several hundred pounds per week for the caterers.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
25 L-188: I think it was bleed air Fred, I was a ramp rat not a mechanic. The reason I was told our ops kept the puppy snuffer closed for T/O and normal operati
26 HAWK21M: Yes the Baggage compartments are Pressurized. On the B737s.The Fwd Cargo Compartment is used for Live Cargo as the heat extracted from the Electronics
27 Starlionblue: Goldenshield said: Using a travel size shampoo bottle should alleviate all those problems. If it's a screw on type, nothing will happen to it. Also, w
28 Trent900: The complete fuselage is pressurized all the way from the front pressure bulkhead (which is situated just behind the radome) to the rear pressure bulk
29 7574EVER: "Anyone opening a door or hatch which is outward opening after a plane has landed have to be extremely careful and make sure the aircraft has been de-
30 Goldenshield: Starlionblue said: I don't have enough hair to use shampoo, but I always check my toiletries. This belongs in another thread of course, but why the he
31 B747skipper: Pssst, 7574EVER - xxx Squat switch to open outflow valve? Some planes do, some planes do not... The 707 and 727 are pressurized .125 lbs/sq.in on grou
32 Starlionblue: I can see the non-rev thing. It's just that for the rest of us, the chance of luggage not arriving is pretty small. Small enough to warrant the risk.
33 Trent900: The squat switch is not used to open the outflow valve fully on some aircraft, only to allow the pilot to select reverse thrust. Most outward opening
34 FredT: Has happened quite a few times. Sometimes with fatal results. Rampers getting struck and F/As getting pulled out when opening doors. Sometimes with fa
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. Since the pressure inside the bottle is equal to the pressure altitude when one closes it, why would the pressure decrease as you climb? And why when the pressure lowers the liquid would expand?
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