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Cell Phone Usage In Flight  
User currently offlineJOSS21 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 39 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6637 times:

Does anyone believe that airlines and or FAA will in the future allow the usage of cell phones while the plane is in motion? Do they really interfere with the avionics?

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 48
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6587 times:

GSM phones don't work in airplanes. The antennas on the ground pick up and send signals horizontally, not upwards. Perhaps, if you're lucky, you might still get some reception when flying low shortly after takeoff or when landing, but otherwise, it wouldn't make sense even switching on your phone. Your phone will start transmitting signals to do a location update (with the nearest antenna) and that might cause interference with the avionics. It's the "tuh-tuh-tuh"-sound you hear for example on your car-radio when the phone rings in your car.
Actually making a call at cruising altitude isn't possible.


[Edited 2004-03-14 10:11:24]

User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6574 times:

Not to mention that at the speed the aircraft is traveling you'll be leaving and entering an antenna's reception every few minutes making your cellphone totally useless.

User currently offlineCOAB767 From Guam, joined Nov 2003, 1377 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6575 times:

I heard this story on the news last year I believe, a passenger on a BA flight from SEA going to LHR decided to use his cell phone on take-off, so the pilot had to make an emergency landing just cuz of that.


Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6546 times:

I disagree with the comment that they don't work at all, they do. Remember 9/11? How many cellular phone calls do we have on record made from the planes while in flight. Not to mention some commercial airlines have a cell phone assigned to each aircraft to be kept in the cockpit.

That being said, I really would rather they continue to be outlawed. Who wants to hear 100 people chatting away on their phones during a 6 hour flight? It truly is one of the last non-cell zones we have left, let's keep it that way.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 48
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6525 times:

I was anticipating that comment.
I was talking about GSM (I'm a Nokia GSM NSS-engineer). Satellite phones work everywhere all over the world, GSM (which most people have) don't. Planes carry satellite phones.
But on 9/11, the planes were not really at cruising altitude anymore, were they? These people managing to make a call were lucky (Sorry for the expression, of course they weren't lucky  Sad)...



User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21552 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6524 times:

I believe that it's not an FAA rule, it's and FCC rule. When you fly in a plane, your higher location above the horizon means that you are in range of more than one antenna at once, which clogs up the system. Thus, the FCC bans cellphones in planes.

That's what my flight school told me.

Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6512 times:

Cell phones may be banned, and GSM phones may work, but the phones we have aren't GSM phones. I still think it's a really bad idea to let the traveling public use their cell phones inflight.


The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

You are surrounded by antenna's all day. At any point in time (depending on the location) your phone is in contant contact with more than 1 antenne, choosing only the strongest one to make a connection. In a big city, your phone can choose 5+ antennas to connect to.
And, for example, as you drive on a highway and making a call, your phone will request a handover to another antenna when the signal of one antenna weakens, and another gets stronger. The system will not clog up. It's designed with overlapping antennas.


User currently offlineIL76 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2004, 2237 posts, RR: 48
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6487 times:

...Anyway, drifting off topic with my GSM comments...

I agree, people shouldn't (try to) use their phones on planes. Even if it is possible, I agree with Canoecarrier, sitting around with hundreds of people chatting on a phone for hours is not fun. It already annoys me on a bus- or trainride, which doesn't take more than 30 mins. Imagine a 6 hour flight with beeping ringtones and such!!


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4121 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6474 times:

I can see how a cell/mobile phone might interfere with the avionics (at home if i have my mobile phone next to the computer, whenever i get a text message or a phone call, or send a text message or a phone call, my computer makes weird noises, and on my friend's computer it freezes the computer temporarily). But does it matter if you actually have your phone on in flight if you don't make or receive any calls or text messages. Because surely then it's just like an electrical object and they're usually allowed aren't they?

-Stephen


User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6460 times:

You can have it with you, you're just not supposed to have it on. This is the same with MP3 players, laptops, etc. up until an altitude of 10,000ft, except cell phone useage is prohibited inflight.


The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8450 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6454 times:
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If your cell is on it is constantly searching for a signal so it is transmitting and receiving anyway.


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6415 times:

just wondering about using the new Microsoft SPOT devices in flight. These are watches that use radio signals to receive info. Would these be banned?

User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

Yes, but is there any ACTUAL EVIDENCE that they cause interference with the plane's operating systems or is it all just bandwagon stuff-just like all this crap about DVTs and the global airline hysteria over prevention when studies have actually shown that there is no actual statistical risk of a DVT when flying UNLESS you have a pre-existing thrombotic tendancy in whihc case you are likely to develop a clot sometime in your life anyway, flying or not.

I leave my mobile phone on but never answer it throughout the flight.



Long Haul is the only way to go
User currently offlineLauda777 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

If you have a satellite phone the same type as the ones connected in your seat and in the cockpit you should be able to use it as they obviously don't cause interference, after all why should you have to pay the $10 or $12 per minute most airlines charge for a phone call, I realise not many people have satellite phones because of their cost and size but the use of all other GSM and CDMA cellphones should remain forbiden.


We remind passengers all flights are non smoking, if you are caught smoking you will be asked to sit outside on the wing
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8450 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6362 times:
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I leave my mobile phone on but never answer it throughout the flight

why not just comply with the rules and switch it off then.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineAmwest25 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6339 times:

Cell phones in general should be banned. They are the most annoying things on the planet. Infact now at work I will refuse to help anyone until they get off their phone. Its simple politness.


I dont forsee cells ever being allowed while inflight.


User currently offlineJumbopilot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6247 times:

Amwest25:
Cell phones in general should be banned. They are the most annoying things on the planet. Infact now at work I will refuse to help anyone until they get off their phone. Its simple politness.

I sympathize with your feelings. But, on the other hand, for myself the mobile phone (in German called "handy"  Big grin) is a working tool as my notebook, too. I am often on the way and it is the easiest way to remain in contact with my office. But in opposition to some other men I try to use it without disturbing other people (Not always with success, I know).

I cannot understand why some men must use their mobile phone while boarding until starting of engines. It is terrible and nerving to meet with such bad organized guys. In my eyes it is not necessary to allow using of that devices if they are not functioning airborne.


User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6210 times:

Lauda777,
Though I'm not familiar with the installation of the sat. phones on aircraft, I do know that all antenna cables are shielded to prevent interference until the signal gets to the antenna. Thus, I imagine the sat. phones are also connected to their antennas via shielded cable, reducing and/or eliminating the chance of interference with other aircraft systems.

Your sat. phone would not have this shielding, thus can/may/will cause interference.

Of course, I could be wrong since I have no experience with sat. phone installations on pax aircraft, I'm just a freight dog.


User currently offlineFlyingDoctorWu From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6193 times:

I have one of the candy bar style GSM phones and one time it accidentally turned on in my pocket in flight- I just happened to check the phone while we were flying over Washington DC- no signal....

I am not sure what sort of interference the cellular signal causes with airline equpment but there are anecdotal case reports of cell phones interferring with medical equipment- specifically cardiac monitoring devices and ventilators. I did a literature search on this and it's rather inconclusive of A)whether or not cell phones interfere and B) whether or not such interference is clinically significant.... Nontheless, if I was flying I would not want anyone to have their phones on, if there is a slight change that some interference causes trouble- you only need one incidence to make a disaster.

Christopher Wu


User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6163 times:

Cell phones should never be used during take offs and landings because they might interfere with the ATC communications. Apart from these critical moments, I don't think there's much harm of using them (if the phone works, that is).

User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6138 times:


Once when I was landing on an Easyjet B737-700 in Luton, and my phone rang and I answered it like a minute before touchdown but nothing happened.

p.s. I forgot to switch it off



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6057 times:

In a perfect aircraft nothing will happen or should happen. But as an aircraft ages problems occur. The thing that concerns cell phone, or any other radio emitting device, is the shielding breaking down on critical wiring allowing stray signals into the wire.

Example: (in simple and general terms)
In a modern autopilot system the computer tells the control surface actuator to move a certain amount to in order to control the aircraft properly. The actuator sends a signal back to the computer (feedback) that tells it that it has moved. These wires are shielded in order to prevent erroneous signals from interfering with this communication. If this shield has broken down (through age, damage, incorrect installation, etc) it is possible that an outside signal can cause an undesired effect. This communication is continuous and happens through-out the entire aircraft.
Therefore, it is critical that these devices that emit signals should not be used during the critical phases of flight.
Cell phone use is troublesome because of the relatively high emissions (compared to a CD player) it produces.



User currently offlineDan6681 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6025 times:

First off I have to say the use of the word cell phone or calling ones mobile phone a cell makes no sense whatsoever and it annoys me every time I hear it.  Smile

IL76;

Working for Nokia you must know our situation in the U.S. regarding mobile phone networks. Our GSM standard being 1900 while the rest of the world with the exception of Mexico, Canada, and Puerto Rico is on 900/1800. Is one more harmful to surrounding equipment then the other? Also I have had a CDMA phone that worked in flight. Are CDMA,TDMA,Amps phones more or less disruptive to surrounding equipment i.e. avionics then GSM.




EWR-SIN 18.5hrs bring it on!
25 Kanebear : I can't remember now where I read it but I recall seeing that a wireless firm was looking into providing an airborne mobile phone 'gateway' that would
26 Ralgha : 47 CFR § 22.925 Prohibition on airborne operation of cellular telephones. Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes, balloons or a
27 Starlionblue : Quite apart from the technical reasons which are course are most important, it would be quite rude to talk on your cell in flight. The signal can be s
28 ANA777Master : Anyone who uses a cell phone on a flight, for a non-emergency, deserves a boot in the face, in my opinion.
29 Post contains images Starlionblue : Or at least public service in the form of washing AF 744s
30 CWUPilot : Mir is correct. The FCC says it will take away your service/impose a fine if you use a cell phone in flight, weather it's at 1,000' or 39,000' agl. Th
31 XFSUgimpLB41X : Canoecarrier- the phones worked on 9-11 because the airplanes were flying on the deck... I always used to keep mine on when i was instructing..works l
32 NWA ARJ : Actually I do not believe that it is a FAA rule that says no cell phones. My ground instructor at UND explained to us that it is a FCC rule because th
33 Avioniker : Cell phones emit an RF signal at a tuned frequency. Interference with that signal causes harmonics which are multiples and fractions of the tuned freq
34 Sovietjet : On 9-11 the planes were flying at a low altitude therefore it was possible.
35 Post contains links Dc10hound : And if you want comprehensive technical data from another source: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAPAP2003_03.PDF "The tests covered the cellphone trans
36 777ualsfo : I agree with everyone so far- allowing cell phone use on board would be a flight from hell. It is bad enough to hear everyone yakking away during the
37 Jwenting : Another reason why cellphones in the US (at least SOME networks) may work while GSM phones do not is because they're based on different technology. GS
38 CPDC10-30 : in the US, most networks still use older analog technology that was abandones in Europe circa 1997 Acutally, there are very few analog only phones us
39 Iakobos : One major reason why cellular phones should be switched off onboard aircrafts is related to security. 10 grams of plastic explosive hidden inside can
40 FunFlyer : Um, first I dont care if it interferes with anything, It would just be DAMN annoying, imagine like 100 people on there damn phones!
41 XFSUgimpLB41X : "Cellphones, be it NMT, GSM, AMPS, TACS, TDMA, CDMA, work generally well inside aircrafts, although at altitude ones needs to be pretty close to a win
42 Rick767 : The CAA report DC10hound mentioned was really a bit of an impractical analysis of the risks and effects of cellular phones used by passengers, with ai
43 Airplay : I leave my mobile phone on but never answer it throughout the flight. First and foremost, it is quite irresponsible to experiment with other passenger
44 Rick767 : "I find it quite irresponsible to use a loaded airplane as a science experiment!" That's the point though - the "science experiment" as you put it is
45 Artsyman : I also find it odd the amount of cell phone calls from 9.11. I, and every single one of my friends in inflight at Continental have yet to ever get a s
46 Iakobos : XFSUgimpLB41X Cellular base stations are in most cases using directional antennas. These are both directional in azimuth and elevation, according to w
47 Moolies : On a flight on a 738, a few friends and I were going to a rowing regatta for the weekend. On the approach a space kadet friend of ours had left his ph
48 Clickhappy : bottom line is this, given the security around planes and flying these days, would they let us take our mobils onboard if they posed a real threat?
49 Mhsieh : On 9/11, the calls were made from in-flight phones (those found on the seatbacks of the middle seat) and not personal cellular phones. I never heard o
50 Post contains links Startvalve : I find it funny that cell phone usage is outlawed in the air but this headset comes equipped with a cell phone interface. I thought it was dangerous e
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