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ADS/CPDLC  
User currently offlineFoxbravo03 From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 38 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5987 times:
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Hello,
I know CPDLC=Controller Pilot Data Link Communication,but can someone explain what ADS stands for,and the difference between the two?
Regards,
foxbravo03.

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineContact_tower From Norway, joined Sep 2001, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5894 times:

ADS = Automatic Dependent Surveilance. A joint term for the systems where a transmitter in an aircraft transmits it's GPS position to a com sattelite (or ground station), allowing "radar-like" surveilance all over the globe. CPDLC is a part of some ADS systems, but not all. CPDLC have been seen as a replacement for VHF/HF radio coms over oceans etc.

User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5878 times:

In Sweden, ADS will replace SSR as the primary means of tracking aircraft, especially in the Northern part of the country. Quite a useful tool that is.

User currently offlineContact_tower From Norway, joined Sep 2001, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

"In Sweden, ADS will replace SSR as the primary means of tracking aircraft, especially in the Northern part of the country. Quite a useful tool that is"

Well......not quite. It will give surveilance to a part of the country that has no radar coverage below about FL100. (At best)

And I agree, it's a good tool, but the issue of getting ADS "transponders" into ALL aircraft is still a major hurdle. To us controllers ADS is no good for seperation if not everyone has it.


User currently offlineFoxbravo03 From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5862 times:
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Hello,
I've noticed that the ADS/CPDLC system seems to be used more by the airlines than General Aviation traffic.The GA guys continue to rely on voice reports for their position reporting on HF.Is there any reason for this?
Thank you for your replies so far.
Regards,
foxbravo03.


User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

Sounds like there's some confusion here.

ADS and CPDLC are both datalink-based technologies but otherwise have nothing to do with each other.

ADS is a surveillance technique by which an aircraft transmits regular position reports via satellite to ground controllers or even to surrounding aircraft.

CPDLC is a communications technique whereby routine air traffic control instructions are transmitted between display screens (rather like e-mail) instead of over congested VHF frequencies.


User currently offlineBa299 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5835 times:

We just started the ops use (after a long period of test) of the ADS/CPDLC and I think it's great. I can't understand the old pilots that don't like it.

User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

Just a comment on Ba229's statement about "old pilots that don't like it". Being an "old pilot" feel I can comment. I don't think it is an issue of not liking it, or even not willing to change, I think it, atleast for me, is an issue of what the trade off is.

The nice thing about VHF communications is you have a "party line". You can hear other transmissions, you can build a mental picture of where everyone else is around you. It helps situational awareness.

I am all for decreasing pilot workload. In this day and age, it's ridiculous to go across the Pacific or other parts of the world and have to rely on HF as your primary form of communication.

I have used FANS for a number of years and love it, I just wish there was some way keep the information coming into the cockpit to keep us situationally aware of the traffic in your area.


User currently offlineBa299 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5791 times:

I don't think that are situational awareness. We already don't heard the position report on HF on the north Atlantic so for me it's a no reason.
ADS can be safer that talk on the HF.


User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

Just one point. The aircraft will transmit to the ground and each other directly, in a TCP/IP-ish kind of wireless network. No satellites involved once the position has been determined.  Smile

I do hope that the datalink comms will enable you to see all the traffic in the surroundinds, with messages concerning your own flight highligted. Theoretically, you could even make it user configurable. "I want to see ATC comms for all aircraft within altitude block xxx-yyy and within an n mile radius". Wouldn't that be neat?

Of course, once you have the display you already know as much about the situation as ATC without listening in on the comms...

Cheers,
Fred




I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5781 times:

Actually, the CPDLC used in the FANS system does use satellites to rely the data link to a ground station. If I remember correctly, it's the INMARSAT system that is used.

I beg to differ again with BA229. It was very informative listening to Shanwick or Gander while people got their oceanic clearance. You knew who was where in the track system and what altitudes people got. Now, it's just the non data link a/c that get the clearances over VHF. In addition, if the FAA has their way, they would like to use CDPLC in the terminal area.

Several years ago, I did some volunteer work at the NLR to look at the applicability of CPDLC. IFALPA and U.S. ALPA funded the study. The results were very interesting. They were given to the FAA and ICAO. Sadly, it looks as if the FAA didn't read the study.

Again, just my opinion as an "old pilot".


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3952 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4674 times:

Sorry to bump a 7 year old thread  Wow! but this seemed like an appropriate place to post my question as it's related. So we know what CPDLC and ADS comms are, but what is FMC and how does position reporting in OCAs work with that?

 


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