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New 747-400 Without Winglets?  
User currently offlineExPanAmer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 36 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5293 times:

I came across a picture of 2 new 747s that are getting delivered to Air France- a Freighter and a - 400. Why are there no winglets on the -400 ? I tried to copy the picture , but I apologize for failing.

6 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineSplitzer From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5267 times:

Perhaps they weren't installed yet for some reason, or got damaged in the factory/ramp waiting for delivery. Since they aren't required for the safety of the flight, the aircraft can fly with one, or both missing - hence the pictures in the database of some aircraft with them missing.

User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5265 times:

Dear ExPanAmer -
Lack of picture does not help...
As a rule, all the 747-400 have the "winglets" with one exception, the short range versions for the Japanese domestic flights which were ordered without winglets - 747-446D and 747-481D...
They are an option for ANA and JAL...
Makes them look like 300s, as the end result.
I do not follow much of the progress of the 400s...
I doubt AF would plan to operate shorter range airplanes with their route structure...
Maybe some spotters who collect pictures will let you know.
I did not know myself about the 400D in Japan having no winglets. I once was passenger on an ANA flight, thought the aircraft was a 300SR, and went to the flight deck to shake hands with the pilots. To my surprise, it was a 400D, without winglets...
I know just about anything you want to know about 100-200-300 and SPs...
But my IQ failed with the arrival of the 400... they are beyond me.
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper

User currently offlineB2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1386 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4931 times:

Boeing delivered two -400s to Air France on Thursday, one a -400 and one a -400ERF. The pax -400 is parked on gray tarmac at an angle that makes the winglets difficult to see:

If you look carefully, you can see the winglet as a gray line extending diagonally up from the wingtip.

Incidentally, the 747 Advanced will probably have 764-style raked wingtips in place of the -400's canted winglets.


Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
User currently offlineExPanAmer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4916 times:

B2707SST- The picture you posted was indeed the picture I saw, and you have better eyes than I do. I even used a magnifing glass on the screen, and still barely made out the gray winglets!

B747SKIPPER- Just a curious question... When you worked for PAA, where were you based ( JFK? ) and did you get to fly their SPs? If you did, were they much different to fly versus the -100,-200s ? I would like to greet you in Portugese, but you probably don't want to hear Mil Bejos and Saudades from me! Ha Ha.

User currently offlineB747Skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

Obrigado, ExPanAmer...
I was based primarily JFK with PanAm... and yes I flew the SP a few times, we did JFK to BAH direct flights... but then, the SPs went to UAL when they acquired the Pacific Division. Then funny, 4 years ago, I did a ferry-delivery flight from Victorville to Brisbane of a 747SP-27, I had not been in a SP for over 12-13 years ago. Empty (just full fuel), that bird performed like a real homesick angel. SPs were always "fun" to fly, somewhat like 720Bs were...
Very little difference in the flight deck with an SP, there is no flaps 25 position, it goes from flaps 20 to flaps 30. (Landing is always flaps 30 in SPs).
As for the fuel, they have 9 tanks rather than 7 as found on the 100s and the older 200s. At a later time, 200s and 300s had an option for 9 tanks like the SP (even 10 tanks!). If you research old posts of mine, you can find quite a bit of info about the SP.
As a matter of fact, I am supposed to fly that SP again in the near future, to deliver it to West Africa, it is located at CGK airport presently. A recent thread deletion about that subject caused a little upheaval... I will not try to mention it again... entaõ cuidate de coisas politicas e mensajes personais aqui, mi filho...!
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17661 posts, RR: 65
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4750 times:


Glad to have you back Skipper!

****Fine, delete me...*****

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
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