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Pilots: What Do You Think Of Your SOPs?  
User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4030 times:

I was flying with a Captain yesterday who I worked with in my previous airline, which had quite different SOPs to our new carrier, and heading back from Malaga last night on our fourth sector of the day, with much coffee, we engaged in an interesting debate about the pros and cons of the "new way of doing things".

I thought it would be interesting to expand on the topic here by asking our active airline pilots how it works in their airline, and what they think is the "right way" or at least the most sensible way.

First Officer Handling Sector

What's your airline's policy on these? At our previous carrier the philosophy was a "complete reversal of the allocation of duties between the Captain and the First Officer" (subject to a few points and exceptions).

So the FO does engine start, taxy, takeoff (with hands on thrust levers), taxy in to stand after landing and engine shutdown on his / her sector. One exception was when parking on stands with guidance systems aligned with the left seat, where the Captain would take temporary control whilst parking until the parking brake was applied, at which point the allocation of duties would reverse again and the FO would continue as P1 and do shutdown.

In my present carrier on FO sectors the Captain does engine start and taxy, handing over control to the FO at lineup on the runway, but the FO takes it from there (i.e. his/her hands on thrust levers the rest of the way). On landing the Captain takes control for runway turnoff and taxys the aircraft to the stand, then completes the shutdown.

Effectively the SOPs we now operate to are Boeing standard SOPs, whilst the ones we used to operate to are Airbus standard SOPs (despite being applied to a 757/767 fleet).

I would be interested to hear what the SOPs of your carrier are regarding these points. Personally I think the SOPs we now operate to are a narrow-minded application of the way Boeing decided the aircraft should be flown which fail to prepare First Officers as "Captains in training" in some key aspects of the aircraft operation. After four years of starting and shutting down 757 and 767 engines, and taxying those aircraft to and from the runway just fine, I found it rather demeaning to say the least not to be expected to do the same on a 737, in fact to the extent where I was banned from these operations!

In my old airline it worked really well, the transition for those pilots from FO to Captain was a very smooth one. I fail to see how it can be as easy (no pun intended!) for our FOs now who have never been directly exposed to these procedures to convert to the left seat as seamlessly, and bear in mind many are expected to do this after 3-4 years in the right seat having never flown another commercial jet in their careers (straight from the Seneca half these guys).

Role reversal on runway lineup and on vacating the runway after landing is in my opinion a dangerous phase of operation to do this. The number of times I find in my new carrier on my sector when we are pushed for a slot, I am rapidly copying the clearance and completing the checklist while the Captain is tweaking up the throttles saying "you have control" or "ready?". It's ridiculous, as pilot flying you do need a few seconds to get your thought process on the takeoff profile you briefed on 20 minutes before, but have had no time to consider since! Too often I find myself properly settling into the actual flying duty happily only once the centreline lights are flashing past at quite some rate.

I also have questions about the safety of role reversal on runway turnoff, which often can involve the aircraft still travelling at quite some speed and which therefore seems to me a poor time to start "swapping seats". I can't help thinking one day one of us will end up in the mud saying "I thought you had control?".

Bit of a rant on my part there for a few paragraphs, but your opinions are welcome.

250 knots below FL100

This one is mainly for our European pilots, since in the US the 250 below 10 rule is never waived. As many of you know the restriction is regularly lifted at quiet times or when there is no conflicting traffic, allowing aircraft to accelerate to the ECON climb speed below FL100, saving 1-2 minutes on the flight time and a bit of fuel too. The same applies on the descent.

My previous carrier always allowed us to accelerate beyond 250kts when ATC lifted the restriction, but our new carrier has only just started allowing us to do this on the climb, and still prohibits exceedance of 250kts below FL100 on the descent. It doesn't half pi** off aircraft coming in behind us at 1am, having to do the same just because we can't exceed 250 even though the controller has given us "no speed".

How does your airline do it? Opinions welcome.

There are other aspects which I could raise but that will make this post a bit long, I would be really interested to hear your views on these differences and see how many airlines really do things as we do them (our company would have us believe most do... I'm not so sure).

Thanks in advance guys.


I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

Rick,
While I am not a pilot, I do concur that from a layman's point of view, that the new SOP seems ridiculous. Therefore, I need to ask you, why do you think that the new company (I assume you are leaving them nameless on purpose, so I will do the same on your behalf) chooses to have these rules, and what do you think the reason that the carrier would choose to follow rules that clearly seem odd, if not dangerous.

J


User currently offlineBellerophon From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 583 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

Rick

In my airline, when it is the F/O's sector:

• I sign the Tech Log and the Loadsheet.
• I make the "Welcome Aboard" PA to the passengers.
• I may call "Stop" for any malfunction below V1.
• I decide if an emergency evacuation is necessary.
• I do the landing in limiting cross-wind conditions.
• I autoland in Cat 2 or Cat 3 weather.
• I taxy the aircraft onto the gate if using AGNIS.

Other than that, roles (but not seats) may be fully reversed, with the Captain still retaining ultimate authority and responsibility. The law says you can't give that away!

F/Os start engines, taxy the aircraft, reject take-offs for major malfunctions, fly engine-out approaches, land on limiting runways and deal with any problems that may arise.

Of course, F/Os vary in their level of experience and ability, and obviously we use our discretion when deciding which sectors to give away, and to whom, but the SOPs remain the same.

A low hour F/O, just starting in the company, unfamiliar with long haul and new to the B747 would not generally be asked by a Captain to handle the more demanding sectors, whilst an experienced F/O, who may be about to do a command on type, should be able to handle any sector.

In my view, if you do not regularly perform a task, then over time you will gradually loose competency in it, next you will become unable to monitor it effectively and eventually you will forget how to do it at all.

Role reversal helps to prevent this, and, as far as is possible, should be encouraged.

I have been a Captain on an aircraft which did not have a P2 tiller, and did not like the handing over/taking over of control whilst moving on or off a runway. It has the potential to go wrong, and should be avoided where possible.

If you don't trust your F/O to taxy on and off a runway, he shouldn't be in the seat at all.

250 kts below 10,000', where allowed, should not present a problem, and I can't see any reason for it to be prohibited. It was very useful on a previous type I flew, where 400 kts in the LHR TMA did save a lot of fuel.

That said, it often doesn't save as much time when inbound as some people might think, and I suspect may be imposed by companies simply to try and prevent rushed approaches.

Regards

Bellerophon



User currently offlineBa299 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3777 times:

This post it's very hard to answer. I'm totally agree with you about this new SOPs? These SOPs look like an old (military) way to think. I think that the first officer have to know everything and have to do everything as the captain. As Rick said the rollout are not the good moment to change the control.

about the 250kt below FL100:
I think that it's quite stupid. In BA tour SOP say that climb and descend must follow the most ECON profile according to altitude constraint speed limit and controller instruction.



User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1559 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3746 times:

Hi Rick,

We don't have tillers on our 737's so I have never performed a taxi from the right side.Do you have on your's?Just curious.

In our SOP captain is the ultimate authority to decide on the safety and operation of the airplane.As a FO I do perform every duty as PF from runway centerline to destination runway rollout,that includes landings in limit crosswinds,short rwys,wet rwys etc.

Also as PF continue flying and do the necessary actions and decisions dictated by QRH and SOP's.(Infact recently a FO performed a succesfull engine outclimb,approach and landing at LTBJ after N2=0 engine failure due to mulitiple bird strikes just after rotation.)

-Engine starts,
-Taxi,
-Decision of abort during TO roll,
-CATIII auto lands
-Emergency evacuations
are performed by the captain in our SOP.

However engine starts and simulated autolands may be performed by the FO, under the supervision of the capt by training purposes.Also "welcome aboard" announcements done by the PF but FO uses word "This is your pilot"instead of CAPTAİN.

We have a memo about 250 below 10 and it encourages to use high speed whenever available by the ATC to save fuel.We frequently use acceleration below 10 and continue with high speed during descent around Dalaman,Izmir,Bodrum etc where traffic is relatively low in frequncy compared to Europe.Bird hazard and high tarrain around the airport must be considered though.

Regards,WING



Widen your world
User currently offlineDragogoalie From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 1220 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3716 times:

Hey rick, it really sounds like they had a non pilot come up with the SOPs. Or an old school captain who is a control freak. While I am not an airline pilot, I am currently training in a fairly structured program. I think our SOPs can be fairly strict at times, but I think in a training environment that is a good thing. That is pretty much the only way that you can teach responsibility. Get people used to strict standards and I think they will stay within the straight and narrow once they leave here. I would assume that your airline has some way of writing up operational hazards or things that you think need fixing in the company. Personally it does sound like something that needs to be fixed. I too dont like the idea of switching controls during roll out. It really makes it sound like the f/o is along for the ride. I also agree with your sentiments that it will make upgrading to captain much easier.

--dragogoalie-#88--



Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3705 times:

Thanks for your responses so far. I am pleased pilots have responded, given that I am aware many people know exactly who I fly for.

Bellerophon

  • I sign the Tech Log and the Loadsheet.


  • I agree, this should be Captain's responsibility (I don't get paid enough to accept that!  Big grin)

  • I make the "Welcome Aboard" PA to the passengers.


  • Fair enough, every airline does this differently, my airline does the same as you, Captain makes initial welcome, then PF does the remainder.

  • I may call "Stop" for any malfunction below V1.


  • Course you can, just like the F/O can when you are PF. Like my SOPs say.. "the call is "STOP", from either crewmember."

    For some aspects is irrespective of PF in my opinion, if I call "STOP" as PNF (below V1) I will expect the PF (Captain) to do so without question. As you will appreciate either pilot can have more information at his/her disposal (such as a blocked runway).

  • I decide if an emergency evacuation is necessary.


  • Absolutely, you're the Captain.

  • I do the landing in limiting cross-wind conditions.


  • Same as my current carrier, I agree with the procedure.

  • I autoland in Cat 2 or Cat 3 weather.


  • Ditto previous...

  • I taxy the aircraft onto the gate if using AGNIS.


  • As mentioned in my previous post, of course...

    "In my view, if you do not regularly perform a task, then over time you will gradually loose competency in it, next you will become unable to monitor it effectively and eventually you will forget how to do it at all"

    Absolutely my opinion, I have no idea how to taxy a 737 (because I never have) albeit that I'm quite sure I could.

    What training is this for me, to be a Captain in a year or two?

    "If you don't trust your F/O to taxy on and off a runway, he shouldn't be in the seat at all."

    Ditto.

    Wing

    We don't have tillers on our 737's

    Of course, I missed out in my post the main reason for the procedures we now follow; many carriers have no steering tiller for the FO. This is the case for a handful of our old 733s, but all other aircraft do have the tiller on the right side.

    "Also "welcome aboard" announcements done by the PF but FO uses word "This is your pilot"instead of CAPTAÄ°N."

    Interesting... in both airlines I have flown with the Captain makes the first announcement, followed by PF for the remainder of PAs.

    Dragogoalie

    "I would assume that your airline has some way of writing up operational hazards or things that you think need fixing in the company. Personally it does sound like something that needs to be fixed. I too don't like the idea of switching controls during roll out. It really makes it sound like the f/o is along for the ride. I also agree with your sentiments that it will make upgrading to captain much easier."

    My carrier does have the said procedure in place, and I have explained my opinion to them without fear of any repercussions, as should be possible in all airlines.

    The strange thing is that on our new Airbus aircraft pilots are following Airbus standard SOPs which are like my previous carrier (FO does handling on his/her sector). The 737 SOPs will stay in their current state it seems, despite the fact that many of these aircraft will stay in the fleet.

    The reason common (Airbus) SOPs are not applied over both fleets is simple... cost!

    My airline still insist most B737 operators use exactly the same SOPs as us...... so far I see no evidence of that.



    I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
    User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
    Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3655 times:

    In our airline, we very rarely distinguish duties between captain and F/O, except for a few items, much like Bellerophon's operation, in fact. In our SOP's, there's a couple of lines that they added in to make sure we know that, as a PF, you're also in charge of the park brake and the speedbrakes. I'm not sure if other airlines prohibit speedbrake operation from the right hand side, but it's there, nevertheless.

    Basically, whoever is the PF, in the words of the SOP, "shall direct the operation". This includes fuel and reclearance decisions in the preflight stage, and other decision making tasks also during the flight. Of course, the Captain will have the final say in any matter, but it is very flexible in normal ops. Even as a S/O in the cruise, if you're the PF, the Captain (or relief command F/O) will do all the paperwork for you, plus get up to open the door if someone rings. You sit there, and direct the operation, as per the SOP's.

    And all the aircraft in our fleet have right hand tillers, so the F/O's get a lot of time to practice the taxi, whether it is in the sim, or online.

    As for high speed below 10, it happens quite frequently for us.


    User currently offlineBa299 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 173 posts, RR: 1
    Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3653 times:

    I see a big difference about the autoland CAT 2 or 3. We use the monitored approach. So I fly the aircraft until we are fully established on the ILS than the CPT take the control and I Keep my left hand on the throttles at DH If the CPT say "go around" or nothing I push the TO/GA switch.
    I thin that It work very good.


    User currently offlineBellerophon From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 583 posts, RR: 59
    Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3632 times:

    Rick

    Just to clarify

    ... may call "Stop" for any malfunction below V1.

    Course you can, just like the F/O can when you are PF. Like my SOPs say.. "the call is "STOP", from either crewmember."...


    The point I was trying to make, and perhaps I should have highlighted the word any to make it more clearly, is that our F/Os may only call "Stop" for a few clearly defined malfunctions (such as Engine Failure, Fire, TOCW, Blocked runway etc.) and do not have the unfettered discretion a Captain has.

    Anything not on the list they should just "bring to my attention".

    Of course if they do call stop.....then…..we're probably going to stop!

    Regards

    Bellerophon


    User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
    Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

    Rick,

    I guess it is "easy" to guess who your new employer is!

    At my old job at SWISS the separation of duties was almost exactly as you describe for your new job. Part of this was simply that most F/Os did not have much experience (straight from the Seneca was exactly what happened in my case.....) and the company did not want to overload them with more responsibilities. All the "on ground" checklists were performed by the F/O.

    We did not have the nearly complete role reversal you describe for your job on the 757/767, at least not on my fleet. I do know that there were a number of procedures which are fleet specific. I can imagine how it might be tough to change ways if you are used to a more liberal way of operating.

    I think both can be safe if proper callouts are made and both pilots are aware of, and follow, the new procedures.

    How did you taxi from the right seat? Is there a tiller on the right side?

    I will be starting soon flying for a US "regional" carrier and it will be very interesting to see how it is done over here compared with Europe!



    smrtrthnu
    User currently offlineDragogoalie From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 1220 posts, RR: 6
    Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3540 times:

    Ballerophon, I understand that it is important that you dont have the f/o aborting takeoff for a minor problem, but to me it doesn't sound like a good idea that the f/o can only call abort for certain things. If you're really close to V1, the time it takes the f/o to tell you and have you make a decision could make the difference between being able to stop on the runway or take your problem up in the air. To me it doesn't sound like a great situation, but obviously those who make the SOPs know a bit better than I as I'm still only a private pilot.


    Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
    User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6588 posts, RR: 55
    Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3529 times:

    Buckfifty has already said a little about how it works in my airline. Rick, the procedures here are similar to your previous carrier. As FO, we direct the operation, as Buckfifty says. We taxi the aircraft as well, from start to finish (Unless it's left-seat docking only - but we still do the shut down).

    Things which we do not do as F/O, sign the logbook, do autolands (In good or bad weather), make the PAs (Although some captains do allow the FO to). We also do not touch the thrust levers during takeoff. Upon lining up, I remove my hands and ask to "Set thrust". If the captain decides to abort he will call 'Aborting"..or "Stop" as it now is starting last week. After liftoff, the levers are mine again. Everything else, we do as PF.

    I do like the way we do things at our company, and LOSA studies have shown that despite our operations exposing us to 3 times the amount of 'threats' as the average carrier has to deal with, we have one of the lowest number of threats that have not been noticed, or not dealt with properly. There is little I would change with our operations.

    As for the 250 below 10,000ft, in our operations we fly to many places where this is often waived, and our company policy is to fly a 300kt descent until wither the speed restriction, the Highest MSA, or 3000ft, so for a fairly flat place with a low MSA, we can fly at 300kts at 3000ft if we wish, although in reality most of us starts reducing at 5000ft or so. The same restrictions apply for the climb.

    Our operations are such that we will fly at maximum efficiency whilst keeping safe standards, and one big thing affecting this is the average experience of our pilots. With your new airline Rick, there are lots of newer FOs with less experience and your operations has to take this into account. It will make more experienced pilots like yourself frustrated, but the management must account for the lowest common denominator, and I suspect that many of the less experienced FOs have an incredibly steep learning curve anyway. I do agree with you that going all the way to command without ever taxying is very silly, and perhaps the best solution would be to have FO's do as they do now, but have Senior FOs (FO of 2 years+ perhaps?) take more responsibility and start taxying.


    User currently offlineBellerophon From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 583 posts, RR: 59
    Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3472 times:

    Dragogoalie

    I understand what you're saying, but stopping 400 tonnes of aircraft from a speed near V1, say around 160 kts, when already half way down a runway is not something to be undertaken lightly, and is not the risk free manoeuvre that many people imagine.

    It should only be undertaken when the alternative is even worse. The aircraft will frequently be damaged during the manoeuvre, sometimes severely. In some incidents the aircraft has been lost due to a collision after leaving the paved surface or a severe brake fire that developed once stopped.

    I've done one major RTO in my career and I'll be very happy if I never have to do another one.

    Other than for a small number of major malfunctions, such as a severe thrust loss, fire, blocked runway or jammed flying controls (all of which my F/Os may call STOP for) take-offs should not normally be rejected near V1.

    I'm not overly concerned if my F/O doesn't have time to tell me about a minor problem near V1, we'll deal with it once we're in the air.

    Sadly, with the benefit of hindsight, we can see that for most take-offs that were rejected near V1, for reasons other than a major failure, it would have been safer if they had continued.

    In their efforts to reduce the number of RTOs that are subsequently deemed to be “unnecessary”, airlines often either prohibit, or restrict to varying degrees, the F/O from calling STOP. Their reasoning, presumably, is that they prefer to leave what can often be a very problematic decision, with serious consequences, to the Captain, whom they assume to be the more experienced pilot.

    Whether this line of reasoning is correct or not is open to debate, however, in my view, what is not open to debate is that, regardless of who makes the decision, once near V1, it is usually safer to take minor problems into the air rather than risk a high speed rejected take-off.

    Regards

    Bellerophon


    User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1451 posts, RR: 7
    Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

    In our Company the CPT does the engine start, taxiing and he sets the take off power even on my legs. Some CPTs let the F/O taxi to the gate after landing but that's non standard and very seldom.

    The decision to abort a take off is also up the the Cpt. In this case he would call stop, overtake the control and stop the aircraft.

    The Cpt also makes the initial welcome call the the passengers but inflight the PF makes the announcements.

    Overall I agree with most of our SOPs, of course I would like to taxi more often and set the take off thrust by myself but I don't feel bad or confused about being not allowed to do so.

    I fully agree to let the Cpt do the Autolands! The same with entries in the tech log and the logbook. CPT Has the responsibility he will be the first to be called after an incident. When I started on the Jet I had 250 hrs on single engine piston airplanes so like most of you mentioned it is good to have this big difference between the FO and CPT tasks.

    We don't have a crosswind limit for F/Os. A F/O can land with 30kt X wind and the Cpt can. If I' m not 100% sure that I can handle the wind I give the controls to my Cpt. Did it twice and still think it was the right decision.

    Regarding the 250kt below 100 we have a AC limitation, 250kt below FL80 but we can go with max down to 80 if ATC allows it. It is SOP to reduce below FL100 but especially on west European airports like AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA, CDG, MXP s. o. If we are allowed by ATC to fly high speed we do.

    We also have Airports were FOs are not allowed to land. FLR and LCY which I thing is ok. LCY Because of the very short runway and in FLR you have very critical terrain. Do you guys have CPTs airfields?


    User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
    Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3371 times:

    Thanks for all your replies, I have been away for a few days and it was interesting to return to read your comments and compare SOPs.

    Bellerophon

    Yes we actually use a very similar system, when I re-read your response about the F/O RTO it became clearer.

    In my airline we (FO's) can call "STOP!" only for a fire, engine failure confirmed by two parameters, configuration warning, a significant handling difficulty (as PF) or a blocked runway.

    The Captain's discretion for an RTO is unaffected. Like you point out I am unlikely to shout "STOP!" for a minor malfunction or discrepancy near V1 (particularly now I'm based at BRS - 6,600ft runway!). Like you I would rather take a problem into the air at those sort of speeds, unless it is a major failure.

    "I've done one major RTO in my career and I'll be very happy if I never have to do another one."

    I agree!! I have never had the misfortune to experience an RTO first hand - and I have only witnessed two (both, incidentally, were Monarch aircraft at MAN, a 757 and an A321). We were taxying out behind them in line for T/O both times and despite both being relatively low speed aborts, my heart was racing for them when I head the power abruptly cut.

    Saab2000

    Interesting to hear the "Swiss" way of doing things is similar to our own. The funny thing is I was a "fresh out of the box" 250 hour Seneca pilot when I started on the 757/767 at my previous carrier. Obviously in the early days we couldn't touch the throttles on take-off, etc... but as our experience increased we were exposed to (carefully monitored) full reversal of flight duties including taxy (we had two tillers) and engine start / shutdown.

    I found it a great advantage and was extremely comfortable operating complete flights from "gate to gate" after a few hundred hours on type.

    The funny thing is that pilots in our airline moving onto the new Airbus fleet are moving over to almost precise Airbus SOPs which are almost exactly like my previous carrier.

    Cx_flyboy

    It is indeed interesting and a testament to how differently airlines can operate to see that, while you enjoy many of the procedures adopted by my previous carrier, that you (as FO) cannot have your hands on the thrust levers on your takeoff!

    "make the PAs (Although some captains do allow the FO to)."

    That is strange - I have never heard that one before. In both my airlines the Captain does the welcome aboard PA (sometimes the FO does), but the PF always does the rest of the PAs (the PNF taking temporary control when a PA is being given).

    Most airlines I fly on as a passenger seem to adopt this procedure too.

    Anyway thanks for all your input, I would love to hear more - not heard a great deal from our US Airline Pilot counterparts yet.....

    Rick.



    I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
    User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6588 posts, RR: 55
    Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week ago) and read 3346 times:

    Bellerophon,

    For reasons you have stated, we basically do the same thing. However in our manuals we actually have little guidance on reasons to call 'stop' and who should call. There is a little blurb to say that we should not abort near V1 unless we really have to. Aborting for a burst tyre or other 'bangs' (with no associated indications or warnings) should not happen. We have some fairly young F/Os on the fleet including myself and aborting with 400 people on board should be left to the Captain. PF or PNF he will have his hands on the thrust levers, and if I am PNF, I will call the prblem that I see like "engine failure" and the Captain will then decide to abort or not and he will say "stop". However, if during the early stages of the takeoff roll till around 100kts, if I called 'stop' for some reason we probably would, and discuss it later, although this is up toindividual captains.

    SQ325,

    The only restricted airports we operate into are a few where only the Captain can do a night circling approach. This includes places like Fukuoka in japan, where there is considerable high ground near the airport, but now has an ILS installed. Hong Kong is also what we call a Category B airfield, but we never do night visual circling approaches. We have CAT C airfields as well, but these tend to be offline ports, diversion ports or places where we have done special charters in the past. For these, the Captain must do the landing and he must have had previous experience or at least a briefing on the place.

    Rick,

    The reason for the PAs is that our marketing department has found that passengers feel much more important, and more at ease if it is the Captain speaking to them. Someone as lowly as an FO does not interest the passengers (apparently!) and for that reason our company policy is for the Captain to make all PA announcements (Apart from the "Cabin crew please be seated for takeoff/landing"!). The only PA the PNF always does (regardless of FO or Capt) is if we stop after landing, on the way to the gate. Passengers tend to think we have reached the gate and all stand up and start getting their bags, so we have to make an announcement to remind pax to be seated until we reach the bay AND the seatbelt signs are turned off.


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