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A320, Now With 180' Etops  
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 5771 times:

Airbus has received approval from European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) for 180-minute extended range twin engine operations (ETOPS) with its A319, A320 and A321 single aisle aircraft including corporate jet versions.
Airbus is also in the process of obtaining approval for the lastest family member
the A318.
According to Airbus, the A320 family has now accumulated over 31 million flight hours since entry into service and more than 10 years worth of 120-minute ETOPS operations worldwide.
This is a good notice for Airbus and CFM/IAE.


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37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6461 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5703 times:

Anxebla, do you know - was this approval given simultaneously for CFM56 and V2500 powered 320s?


Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5697 times:

As far as I'm aware, it's for both engine variants.

User currently offlineN6376m From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5663 times:

whatever happend to 4 engines 4 long haul?

User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

What route could an A318 possibly fly on a regular basis that would require 180-minute ETOPS??? That seems a bit ridiculous to me...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineMYT332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5534 times:

whatever happend to 4 engines 4 long haul?

What are you on about, thats Virgins slogan not airbus's. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if it were, think about the A330, how many engines? lol
-
Alex





One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5508 times:

whatever happend to 4 engines 4 long haul?

It took its place with most other relics of bygone eras





What route could an A318 possibly fly on a regular basis that would require 180-minute ETOPS???

West Coast USA-Hawaii





What are you on about, thats Virgins slogan not airbus's.

Wrong-- it was Airbus', adopted by virgin




User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5474 times:

I thought that the etops certification comes related to the airlines maintenance practices along with the aircraft types. The rules on what mechanics do what, and when etc with etops go beyond just clearing Airbus for etops 180

J


User currently offlineStaffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5463 times:

It still depends on the airline, but I'd guess that they now have the possibility to certify for 180 instead of 120 as previously.

Staffan


User currently offlinePU151 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5436 times:

ConcordeBoy's right, I've seen that slogan in A TV ads (4 engines 4 long haul).

User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5388 times:

...and it's a very intelligent slogan  Smile
Prebennorholm, yes, EASA gave approval for CFM56 and V2500
This is a very good notice (good news are given in sales Big grin) and it indicates that Airbus and CFM/IAE go for the right way.


User currently offlineTs-ior From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3488 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5303 times:


So the A320family aircrafts will be able to cross the atlantic ?


User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5296 times:

No,Ts-ior, with the exception (I think) A319CJ.
USAFHummer... The 180' ETOPS is ideal for flights over water (or over a desolate place/desert)in short-medium routes.Example, for flights within some areas of Pacific Ocean, or like Concordboy say, for US-West Cost to Hawaii


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5287 times:

Anxebla, I don't think that there are any short to medium routes that would require ETOPS 180... wouldn't logic dictate that a flight requiring ETOPS 180 (or 3 hours) would have to be at least 6 hours long? With anything shorter, you'd always be less than 180 minutes away from either your departure or arrival airport... or am I missing something?

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5274 times:

You are right, Leskova.But remember some A320 family "members" can fly for more than 6 hours and sometimes the shortest way between two points is over water or over desert (for example, the Sahara's air ways)Anyway, 180' ETOPS is a show of trust in Airbus and CFM/IAE than an useful issue. In many cases ETOPS 120' is enough.

User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5264 times:

Anxebla - no doubt, this is definitely good news for my favorite narrowbody Big grin - after all, even if it's not used much, there's always a chance that someone might need it.

Thanks for the clarification...

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5231 times:

I thought that the etops certification comes related to the airlines maintenance practices along with the aircraft types.

Does. This is approval, not certification.



I don't think that there are any short to medium routes that would require ETOPS 180...

Apparently, you missed Reply#6 m'friend  Smile


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

ConcordeBoy, I hadn't missed reply #6 - I just thought that US West Coast to Hawaii wasn't really a "medium" length route any more... but I guess it does still count as one of those.

What actually is the definition of "medium" in this sense? I always thought that it was something up to 5 hours (ok, true - that would include USWest/Hawaii - the eastbound flights are just under 5 hours if I recall correctly)?

I knew I shouldn't have added the words "to medium" to my reply... Big grin

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17054 posts, RR: 67
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

4 Engines 4 Long Haul is and will continue to be a good slogan. While the rest of us A.nutters can tell the difference, the whuffos won't notice that they're on a 2 holer with no slogan.


BTW Virgin also writes: "More experienced than our name implies" on some planes, so that's how much I care about the other slogan  Big grin



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offline777ualsfo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4976 times:

Isn't LAX-Hawaii and SFO-Hawaii longer than 3 hours?

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17054 posts, RR: 67
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4962 times:

777ualsfo, yes they are longer. But the 180 minutes refer to the distance to a diversion airport. So the segment can be any length as long as you are always within 180 minutes of somewhere you can land. In your example, the plane would turn back before the half way point and keep going after it.

The West Coast<-> Hawaii case is of course a bit extreme since there is nothing in between. Normally there would be other places to divert to.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4918 times:

Do you know if a Hawaii<->West Coast is there any point within between 120-180' or close to 180'? Is this leg enough long for this one?

User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

Around the middle of the flight there is a part that is beyond ETOPS 120.


Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4912 times:

Thanks for your info, Leskova  Smile
Then... is this route always served by wide planes?


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4911 times:

Anxebla, with "wide planes", do you mean "widebodies"? Then the answer is no - there are dozens of B757s flying between the west coast and Hawaii, and on some routes, I think, you'll even find B737NGs (I think Aloha flies with B737-700s).


[Edited 2004-05-03 18:03:45]


Smile - it confuses people!
25 Anxebla : Is the 737NG with 180' ETOPS, too?
26 Post contains links Leskova : Anxebla, according to Boeing, the first scheduled B737NG ETOPS 180 service was operated by Aloha on 14 February 2000 between Honolulu and Oakland... h
27 Dynkrisolo : wouldn't logic dictate that a flight requiring ETOPS 180 (or 3 hours) would have to be at least 6 hours long? Nope. The 180-minute rule applies to th
28 ConcordeBoy : Do you know if a HawaiiWest Coast is there any point within between 120-180' or close to 180'? Is this leg enough long for this one? California-Hawaii
29 Danialanwar : doesnt ETOPS120 mean 120 minutes from a diversion ON A SINGLE engine? Anyway, believe LAX-HNL is 5 hours, so you cant make it with ETOPS120 (2 hours),
30 Timz : "California-Hawaii is not ETOPS180 for all aircraft. All 777s, most 767s, and some 757s (UA's subfleet of PW2040 aircraft are an example) can operate
31 Timz : Hilo to San Francisco is 2013.9 nm; I'm guessing no Hawaiian airport is closer to any mainland airport than that (excepting only Half Moon Bay, which
32 Post contains images Buckfifty : On our ETOPS charts, the one hour range circles for single engine ops is...434 nm. Odd, isn't it Tim.
33 Timz : Which aircraft does 434 knots on one?
34 ConcordeBoy : Assuming what single-engine cruise speed? Don't quote me on this... ... but I believe that the typical ETOPS180 routes are calculated for aircraft opp
35 Buckfifty : Which aircraft does 434 knots on one? A330 and 772/3. It's a baseline figure, but nonetheless the standard that is being used.
36 Timz : Well now... that means 240-minute ETOPS for the 777/A330 is enough to cover the north and central Pacific even if Wake and all the other emergency air
37 Anxebla : Does anyone know if the Air France A-319LR's are certificed with ETOPS-180'?
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