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Bonanza Model 35 Spin Characteristics  
User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3568 times:

A few friends and I got into a slight discussion about the spin characteristics of the V-tail Beech. We realized that we really have no idea what would happen to that airplane in a spin. What is the recovery procedure? Same as for any other retractable single, anything different? Any astonishingly bad characteristics?

Thanks.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5519 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3547 times:

Nope, pretty much normal characteristics.


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineQantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3533 times:

I'm not sure about spin recovery procedures, but it is a fact that in most cases, V-tail aircraft (along with T-tail aircraft) have better spin recovery characteristics than conventional-tail aircraft. On a side-note, V-tails also usually reduce drag, mainly interference drag (due to the fewer number of control-surface to fuselage junctions). A major disadvantage of V-tails has to do with control-linkage issues...

Cheers,
QantasA332


User currently offlineSLCPilot From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

I just have a few questions....

Sccutler, do you speak from experience?

QantasA332, why does a V-tail have better spin recovery tendancies?

While my experience with V-tail spins in limited to model airplanes, the ones I flew tended to have poor recoveries, and required POWER & the appropriate aerodynamic control inputs. On more than one occasion I spun in a Doddger (Quickie 500 racer) with little or no damage. It would flat spin very well. Bear in mind I flew this plane as a sport plane and didn't spin it while racing.

I agree that interference drag is reduced with V-tails, but I suspect the net effect is they have their limits. Most (all?) open class sailplanes do not have V-tails, even though many 15m ships do.

SLCPilot




I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
User currently offlineQantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3490 times:

...why does a V-tail have better spin recovery tendancies?

It is known fact that increased dihedral or effective dihedral (manifested in either the wings or tail, or both) helps to eliminate the spiral divergence mode, and helps recovery from it. Because V-tails are essentially tails of very high dihedral, the aforementioned spin-helping characteristics are present...

Cheers,
QantasA332

(Am I confusing the spin you're discussing with spiral divergence mode? I know what the latter is, of course, but I'm not 100% sure that you're talking about the same thing as I am when you use the word 'spin'...)


User currently offlineSLCPilot From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3457 times:

QantasA332,

If you asked me if a V-tailed Bonanza tail had dihedral or anhedral I'd say it had the effect of "anhedral". In other words, if we consider the direction that the tail produces it's lift (down), the tail has anhedral.

I can't answer the question, but I have always wondered why more airliners don't have tails like Falcon 50s, with the tailfeathers being "bent" down slightly.

I always found it interesting that if you were designing a very efficient aircraft you'd put the vertical stab and rudder on the bottom of the fuse so they would provide a rolling moment in the direction of the applied rudder. As it is (on top typically), rudder application provides a rolling moment opposite of the applied rudder direction.

Fly Safe!

SLCPilot



I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

Interesting. Thanks, all.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3434 times:

A major disadvantage of V-tails has to do with control-linkage issues...

That and flying off when you least expect it.  Big grin
AD 94-20-04 R1

The old V-tails are fun planes to fly.



At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineBMAbound From Sweden, joined Nov 2003, 660 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3431 times:

Not from personal experience (never flown a V-tail), but my instructor said that people have "problems" (not the right word..) aligning with the runway on final approach. He said there's a lot of rudder work to stay centered.

Anyone experienced this?

johan



Altitude is Insurance - Get Insured
User currently offlineQantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3420 times:

If you asked me if a V-tailed Bonanza tail had dihedral or anhedral I'd say it had the effect of "anhedral". In other words, if we consider the direction that the tail produces it's lift (down), the tail has anhedral.

Whether a wing/tail/etc. has either dihedral or anhedral doesn't depend on where the lift is going; lift is irrelevant. All that is considered is the angle between the surface in question and 'level', for lack of a better word.

Again, check this thread out...

Cheers,
QantasA332


User currently offlineSccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5519 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

In my experience, many pilots has trouble lining up- seem to be afraid to use the rudder enough.


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3399 times:

Never had any problems lining up for normal landings. It did seem to run out of rudder during some x-wing landings. But those are pretty rare these days.


At worst, you screw up and die.
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