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Water Landing  
User currently offlineAerosvit From Ukraine, joined Feb 2004, 112 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5478 times:

So what happens if a plane crash lands on water? Do we all go out and swim away on those life rafts as depicted on the safety manuels? Does it float like the pictures say?

Some reason I always have my doubts every time I read those  Big grin


Clava Ykraini
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaligrafy From Canada, joined May 2004, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5384 times:

In fact, if planes with engines under the wings could eject them before landing on water, then, it would be possible to survive... As it is impossible for now to manually eject engines, then 99% sure no one could survive a water landing since engines will stop the aircraft too rapidly...

On the other side, a DC-9 or most regional should be able to land, let say 50% chance to survive...



Never forget Earth
User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2841 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5333 times:

Are you serious Kaligrafy?

Didn't Ethiopian have a hijacked A310 or 300 run out of gas and perform a water landing in the late 90's? If my memory is correct, there was a large loss of life, but not everyone was killed.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineAerosvit From Ukraine, joined Feb 2004, 112 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5293 times:

Haha...than on those manuals...they should say...in case of water landing...good-bye...

anyway...yeah...there was such an incident and it involved a 767.

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi_bin/view_details.cgi?date=11231996®=ET-AIZ&airline=Ethiopian+Airlines

maybe ejecting engines is a feature the 7E7 may have  Big grin...just kidding.



Clava Ykraini
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5057 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5288 times:

We do water landings in the simulator from time to time for practice. Yes, if done correctly, there is a very good chance no one will get hurt.

Two well known water landings that did result in fatalities had other circumstances:

The Ethiopian B767 (not A310) was being hijacked at the time, and there was a fight for control when the aircraft crashed.

The ONA DC-9 that water landed near St. Croix happened to have an unserviceable PA system, and the lack of communication from the flight deck left the actual time of landing a surprise and some of the passengers were not yet seated, nor wearing their life vests.

While extremely rare, I would imagine other than the above bizarre circumstances, your worst enemy might be the weather, nor just for the landing itself, but also for survival in the life rafts after.

It has been said that when done correctly, you can count on the aircraft floating for at least 15 minutes.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineAerosvit From Ukraine, joined Feb 2004, 112 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5242 times:

Sweet....thanks for the info LongHauler...greatly appreciated  Smile


Clava Ykraini
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3529 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5189 times:

i read about a DC-8 that for some reason couldn't make it to the runway somewhere and ditched (relatively close to an airport...maybe SFO?)...i remember the book said the people all sat on the wings until the rescuers arrived. anyone know of something like this?


Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlinePizzaandplanes From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5018 times:

What about water runways, how do you tell where they are?

User currently offline4jaded From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4932 times:

I don't think the chances of walking away from a water landing are very high. There has been few of them so far were people actually lived. No matter how relaxing and normal the crash card in the seat back pocket makes it look these are highly irregular incidents and I doubt that anyone in modern time had the chance to reach up into the overhead bin grab the additional life raft, run up to the door and tie it on the handle pull the red tab load into it then cut themselves away. The only incident I remember where almost everyone lived was a National Airlines 727-200 in Pensacola Bay back in the 70's. The reports as I remember stated that the plane glided down into the water as it was landing and then sunk like a stone. The only reason most people lived is that it just happened to settle on a sand bar so it didn't sink all the way. I highly doubt that would have been the case if the engines were slung under the wing.

Just my opinion of course


User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1894 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4849 times:

Swimming is optional.


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Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineKerberos From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

I read something at one time that said that underwing engines were designed to shear off cleanly at the pylon in the event of a water ditching. Provided of course that it was a controlled ditching - wings level, nose up, close to stall speed. Can anyone confirm this?


This is your captain speaking. I’ve turned off the no-smokin’ sign. Hell, if the plane is smokin' why can't you?
User currently offlineBAViscount From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2338 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

i read about a DC-8 that for some reason couldn't make it to the runway somewhere and ditched (relatively close to an airport...maybe SFO?)...i remember the book said the people all sat on the wings until the rescuers arrived. anyone know of something like this?

I too remember reading that story, infact I quoted it to a colleague just a couple of days ago when we were talking about water landings not being surviveable!

Here is a quote from "Aiport International", a book by Brian Moynahan, relating to the event (NTSB AAR 70-2):

A Japan Airlines DC8 was making an approach in bad visibility to San Francisco Airport. The pilot thought he was close to the airport when he was still over the bay. Calmly and with great precision, he let the great aircraft down through the murk to a pillow-soft landing in the Pacific. All the 107 passengers and crew clambered out and sat on the wings as the tide went out and the aircraft settled on a mudbank.

The book also has various other interesting examples of when people have survived ditchings.



Ladies & gentlemen this is Captain Tobias Wilcock welcoming you aboard Coconut Airways flight 372 to Bridgetown Barb
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4681 times:

There's actually a decent chance of walking away from any controlled emergency landing as long as no fire breaks out in the cabin and the crew are successful in preventing major panic among the passengers.

A waterlanding in that is little different from a landing on land, except there's no trees or buildings for the aircraft to collide with on impact and water can smother any sparks that might cause fire.
OTOH the aircraft will start to sink which may mean people getting trapped in the cabin and drowning.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

Also, the images in the safety card also help for situations like runway overruns into water, such as the DL MD-88 that went into Flushing Bay off of LGA...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineConcord977 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1261 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4601 times:

A video of the Ethiopian water landing mentioned above is pretty easy to find on the internet. I have a copy if anyone needs to see it.

The engines went flying in different directions once they hit the water and at least one wing snapped off.

As mentioned above, there were 'some' survivors.



No info
User currently offlineKerberos From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4521 times:

I'd hardly call the Ethiopian incident a "water landing". The aircraft was out of fuel, and not fully in control by anybody. I belive that there was a struggle going on for control of the aircraft, the Captain was just able to miss a hotel and turn toward the ocean. I don't think this would be represetative of a controlled ditching.

As Planespotting and others have mentioned, that DC-8 that landed in the water short of the runway at SFO was in full landing configuration and hit at landing speed. Commercial aircraft are designed to survive a controlled ditching in water, including remaining afloat long enough to carry out an evacuation.



This is your captain speaking. I’ve turned off the no-smokin’ sign. Hell, if the plane is smokin' why can't you?
User currently offlineFritzi From United Arab Emirates, joined Jun 2001, 2762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4433 times:

A waterlanding in that is little different from a landing on land

Not very true.

If you have to land on water, you will not be able to use your gears or the flaps, as these will cause waaay too much drag in the water.
The water will also act a little like concrete. You will be able to slide/bounce on it, but if one of the wings would cut into the water, the water will act pretty much like a fishing net. It will decelerate the submerged part very quickly, while the rest of the aircraft will be at a entirely different speed. This may cause breakup of the airframe, cartwheeling and loss of life.

However, if you are successfully in making a water landing, don't expect the aircraft to stay on the surface for very long...  Big grin


I have actually been forced to make water landings, with a C185F on floats that is. Big grin


User currently offlineEugdog From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

According to a A330 pilot commenting on Air Transat's gliding out of fuel incident- a ditching would be absolutely fatal. When the tail plan hits the water it would snap off the rear section of the plane causing a huge hole and sinking the plane very quickly.

The Ethiopian crash took place close to the shore and in shallow water so there were some surivivors


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12640 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4335 times:
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This might be one situation where having four 'hair dryers' under the wings might be preferable to two GE monsters.

I've always felt the safety cards and especially the videos are way to optimistic - most show people calmly walking to the exit, having a little look around, before stepping in to the life raft.

I hope I never have to experience it.

"In the unlikely event of a landing on water..." Find the God of your choice, and quick!



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2771 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4288 times:

But, but, but.....Tom Hanks survived a water "landing"...

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4151 times:

>>>Also, the images in the safety card also help for situations like runway overruns into water, such as the DL MD-88 that went into Flushing Bay off of LGA...

This one doesn't ring a bell; got a date for it?

Delta did have a landing mishap at LGA, but I don't recall the aircraft being in the water...

There were the USAir 5050 crash (737-400, ran off the pier and got stuck in the lights), and USAir 405 (Fokker F28, icing, crasked after takeoff), and I think a Contental MD-80 whose nose went over the end of the blast wall on an abort, but those are the onl things I can recall...



User currently offlineNeptunescar From Maldives, joined Dec 2003, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

the dc 8 that landed in the water on approach to SFO did so in a very shallow depth on SF bay, it didnt sink all the way... the ac belonged to JAL and there was an article written about it here on A.net, it was cleaned and returned to service as a cargo plane, i think.


You call it the world, we call it home. Pan Am.
User currently offlineFritzi From United Arab Emirates, joined Jun 2001, 2762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4036 times:

Here is the article that Neptunescar is reffering to.

http://www.airliners.net/articles/read.main?id=1


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 14080 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3819 times:

One reason why there were so many survivors of the Ethiopean 767 was that they crashed right in front of a beach tourist resort. There were several scuba divers and their instructors already suited up with their equipment in motor boats on the way to diving class. When they saw the plane crash, they went out there instead and rescued the passengers. Another thing was that there were several doctors and nurses among the tourists, who with the help of the hotel´s first aid kit, performed emergency medical measures right on the beach until the ambulances arrived.

Jan


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3529 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

alrite i waited for it for too long.......no one quoted fight club in this thread!!! here goes:


Tyler: You know why they have oxygen masks on planes?

Narrator: no, Supply Oxygen?

Tyler: Oxygen gets you high, in a catastrophic emergency, we're taking giant, panicked breaths...suddenly we become euphoric, docile. We accept our fate. *pointing to the safety cards* Emergency water landing, 600 miles per hour. Blank faces...calm as hindu cows...


alrite there it is. i win



Do you like movies about gladiators?
25 Post contains images Espion007 : Lol Planespotting, thats the funniest thing ive heard all day yea those safety cards are much like school fire drills-in the real thing people will be
26 MD-90 : Oh my gosh, that theory is actually pretty funny.
27 Post contains images HaveBlue : Can anyone tell me the story behind these 707 pictures I have in my archive? The DC-8 story sounded like it could have been describing this one from t
28 Post contains links Skydrol : HaveBlue, Read about the "swimming 707" HERE. LD4
29 Post contains images A/c train : Put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye .
30 Post contains images HaveBlue : Thank you Skydrol. Gotta love the Captains quote "Don't worry, I know what I'm doing" immediately before he puts a medium transport jet into the drink
31 Ryan h : I remember reading about a Stratocruiser that had engine trouble during a night flight over the Pacific. THe plane circled a ship until dawn and then
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