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Recirculating Lavatory = Blue Water?  
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2187 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 11257 times:
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The GECAS homepage states in its Bombardier aircraft fact sheet that CRJ200/700/900 all have recirculating lavatories.

I remember from flying 727s and 737s in the 1980s the blue flushing water, but I cannot remember any blue water when I flew Austrian/Tyrolean's CRJ200 two years ago.

Question: is blue water still being used in factory-fresh CRJs or have they developed a new type of flushing water that is colourless?

Anyone who knows?

Ivan




Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 11247 times:

Recirculating lavatory systems reuse the flushing fluid (blue or otherwise). Ther is a "solids" separator that removes the chunks before recirculating.

The same fluid is used over until the next service stop. This prevents running out of flushing fluid like some older designs.

One of my most unpleasant experiences is being on a charter flight (free booze) and having the flush water run out. Needless to say, the "mountain" formed in the toilet bowl was disgusting....



User currently offlineLinemechqx From United States of America, joined May 2004, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 11231 times:

Horizon's CRJ700's come straight from the factory with recirculating blue juice lavs. Same with brand new Q400's. Whether or not there's a colorless "blue" juice out there or not I couldn't say. But because it recirculates I wouldn't imagine it would take long for it to reach a pretty disgusting color. So it seems blue is a pretty popular color for lavs, airplanes or not.

Late
PC


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 11225 times:

I wouldn't imagine it would take long for it to reach a pretty disgusting color.....and wonderful oder....!!!


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 11194 times:

Odor is OK...color? Can you imagine a brownish blue with green highlights?

 Smile


User currently offlineFedExIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10912 times:

The newer planes use potable water and suction to flush the waste into the tanks. The blue juice is just used in the tank to keep the crap from sticking to the tank.

User currently offlineIsmangun From Indonesia, joined Jan 2001, 117 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10791 times:

737s don't recirculate their water supply. That blue-thing the F/As used to call Sani-Blue.


If it's an Airbus, I'll take the bus...
User currently offlineFadec From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10782 times:

It all depends if they use a vacuum system or not. If not they are all recirculated blue juice. Everything is held just under the toilet in a storage tank.

The vacuum systems use potable water with a small amount of blue juice in the tank as a "pre-charge". These vacuum systems allow them to remotely locate the tank(s), normally in the aft section.


User currently offlineIsmangun From Indonesia, joined Jan 2001, 117 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10784 times:

That's why you don't want to use the lavatories after a barrel roll in a 737.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


If it's an Airbus, I'll take the bus...
User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10638 times:

One of my most unpleasant experiences is being on a charter flight (free booze) and having the flush water run out. Needless to say, the "mountain" formed in the toilet bowl was disgusting....

My worst experience is dumping a MQ lav @ MSN and finding out the lav cart wasn't dumped in a while and the only thing keeping the "juice" from free-flowing across the ramp is the hose its sitting in.

Can you imagine a brownish blue with green highlights?

Seen that too! Was on a SEA-ORD flight and just under an hour into the flight, I had to use the lav and when I flushed, it came out smelling like an ammonia bomb had been dropped in the lav. It was a nasty shade of green/brown.



Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineBlueJuice From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9933 times:

Nothing new to contribute to this thread. Just figured the subject matter required me to at least check-in.

User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9813 times:

Quoting Fadec (Reply 7):
These vacuum systems allow them to remotely locate the tank(s), normally in the aft section.


The tanks on recirculating systems can also be remotely located. In addition there are self contained units where the tank is directly under the bowl.

Quoting Linemechqx (Reply 2):
But because it recirculates I wouldn't imagine it would take long for it to reach a pretty disgusting color. So it seems blue is a pretty popular color for lavs, airplanes or not.


The fluid is recirculated by units electric motors called "flush motor pumps" the pumps are equipped with cutters and filters so only liquid is pumped through the bowl.

The "blue juice" is used to further break down the solids and provide a more pleasant odor.

I did my time working Chapter 38 and like they say: "Its a shitty job but someone has to do it."


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9592 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
I wouldn't imagine it would take long for it to reach a pretty disgusting color.....and wonderful oder....!!!

Thats where DDD [Dye, Disinfectant,Deodrant] comes into action.
Although if the contents have not been scheduled serviced,then that too would be ineffective.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2187 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9350 times:
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I have read that one big issue with recirculating lavatories were corrosion over time. Is this still an issue on newly delivered aircraft or are new-built lavatory modules a lot better than the ones installed in the 1980s/1990s?


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9332 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 13):
I have read that one big issue with recirculating lavatories were corrosion over time. Is this still an issue on newly delivered aircraft or are new-built lavatory modules a lot better than the ones installed in the 1980s/1990s?


Laboratory corrosion is a problem with either type of toilet. Urine causes aluminum to corrode very quickly. However, because the recirculating uses a lot of fluid and the fluid contains urine, leaks in the pipes, lines or tanks can cause major corrosion problems if not discovered and cleaned up quickly.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9245 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 14):

Corrosion issues are due to liquid seepage out of the tank/lines & thru the mylar sheet affecting the Structure below.
Avoid liquids in that zone,reduce corrosion.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9143 times:

Don't know if this is true or not but someone told me that some airlines don't even use "blue juice" as my airline calls it. Air India I remember him saying and a couple others. This true?


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 8944 times:

I was looking through some old pictures I had taken over the years. Thought some of you may want to see what a "blue water" tank looks like. This is Eastern L-1011 N303EA (s/n 1004) picture was taken during an return off lease inspection around 1989 in Las Vegas.

Just to the left of center you can see how the aft pressure bulkhead has been stained by a spill of "blue water".




User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8840 times:

Quoting contrails15 (Reply 16):
Air India I remember him saying and a couple others. This true?

Air India uses DDD [Dye/Disinfectant/Deodrant].
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently onlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 970 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8650 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 17):
I was looking through some old pictures I had taken over the years. Thought some of you may want to see what a "blue water" tank looks like. This is Eastern L-1011 N303EA (s/n 1004) picture was taken during an return off lease inspection around 1989 in Las Vegas.

Just to the left of center you can see how the aft pressure bulkhead has been stained by a spill of "blue water".

Amazing photo!!! Please, please say you have more L-1011 photos like this in an album on Airliners, Photobucket etc.!


Was the L-1011 unique in using this recirculating toilet system where the 5 aft toilets shared a common sewage tank with 3 flush pumps operating sequentially? Most airplanes with recirculating toilets have a simple design with each toilet bowl located on top of its own sewage tank (like a porta-potty), but with a flush pump inside. Although not using vacuum, the L-1011 toilet system is structured similar to a modern vacuum toilet system.



LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8643 times:

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 19):
Amazing photo!!! Please, please say you have more L-1011 photos like this in an album on Airliners, Photobucket etc.!
LD4


Glad you like the picture: I have several hundred others. Nothing posted anywhere but maybe one of these day? I just bought a scanner that will allow me to put the negatives on a SD cards so it should be easier than scanning the actual photo.


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2187 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8624 times:
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Quoting Skydrol (Reply 19):
Most airplanes with recirculating toilets have a simple design with each toilet bowl located on top of its own sewage tank (like a porta-potty), but with a flush pump inside

But are they connected with a hose or pipe to one point where the lav truck empties everything? I have never seen a lav truck hook up at three points on the B733...



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently onlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 970 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8563 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 21):
But are they connected with a hose or pipe to one point where the lav truck empties everything? I have never seen a lav truck hook up at three points on the B733...

Yes, it would be something like this.

In the case of the B747-100, there were I believe, three lav service connection points, forward, mid and aft. Inside each service panel there were four valve handles, and one drain connection. This would allow servicing four toilet tanks from each panel (the aft panel may have served six toilets, and the forward panel included the upper deck toilet). I believe the blue pre-charge could be added to each of the toilet tanks as well from the service panels.

Although it has been years since I have seen this, so maybe my memory has failed.... hopefully someone can approve or disapprove my comments.




LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8483 times:

Quoting BlueJuice (Reply 10):
Nothing new to contribute to this thread. Just figured the subject matter required me to at least check-in.

Lol

Quoting Ismangun (Reply 6):
737s don't recirculate their water supply. That blue-thing the F/As used to call Sani-Blue.

What do you mean? The 737-400s which I worked on had the recirculation system where the lav is located above the tank, basically like a potable toilet, occasionally an engineer would give us the "toilet teabag" to drop down them downroute, the only thing I remember about them is you do not want to get it on your clothing as it will NOT come out - I didn't dye my clothes but someone else did... The 737-800s and 900s have the pneumatic system, as does the 737-700 and 600 is suppose.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 22):
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 21):
But are they connected with a hose or pipe to one point where the lav truck empties everything? I have never seen a lav truck hook up at three points on the B733...

Yes, it would be something like this.

In the case of the B747-100, there were I believe, three lav service connection points, forward, mid and aft. Inside each service panel there were four valve handles, and one drain connection. This would allow servicing four toilet tanks from each panel (the aft panel may have served six toilets, and the forward panel included the upper deck toilet). I believe the blue pre-charge could be added to each of the toilet tanks as well from the service panels.

Although it has been years since I have seen this, so maybe my memory has failed.... hopefully someone can approve or disapprove my comments.


On the 737-400 I believe there were two panels, one at the front for the forward lavatory and one at the rear for the aft lavatories, the aft one could access both rear toilet tanks.

On the 757-200 we had various lavatory configurations, 2F 2M, 1F 3M, 1F 2M (F - FWD, M - MID) but I believe the access panels were 1 FWD and 1 MID, the Middle one accessing all of the middle lavatories. I could be wrong on this though as it has been nearly 5 years now since I was on the 757. Of course some of our other models had the newer Pneumatic system.

Excellent picture there 474218  

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineiairallie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8366 times:

Quoting Airplay (Reply 4):
Odor is OK...color? Can you imagine a brownish blue with green highlights?


I don't have to imagine it I've seen it more times than I can count on the DC-10. DC-10 lavs at my company have been so bad I've actually vomited on several occasions.


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