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CO 737-800 Was Missing "fuel Pylon" Piece..scarry!  
User currently offlineSq452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5025 times:

Flew out of BOS to EWR yesterday on CO863...delayed forever,

but literally as we held short of the runway some french man two rows behind me ran his flight attendant call button and then said "there's a piece of the plane missing", and he was right...

the fuel "pylons" as the pilot referred to them as, on the 737-800 (located under the flaps and when flaps are deployed, they move with the flaps, see picture at end here). I checked cause of course i was concerned when he said a piece of the plane missing. Sure enough, the back section of one (in a cone, triangular shape) was completley not there on the pylon under the outermost flaps. Right side/wing had one, but the left one was missing the end piece!!!

So the flight attendant ran back and called up front, and about 30 seconds latter the the pilot came on and said "hear there is a bit of concern, we know there is a piece of the pylon missing, and we've factored that in so there's nothing to be concerned about".

so my question is, why would they just leave a piece missing???

it would be the end piece similar to this picture:


View Large View Medium

Photo © Tim Lachenmaier



[Edited 2004-06-19 23:30:04]

[Edited 2004-06-19 23:32:49]


SIN > CVG > BOS
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMneo From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2004, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

beacuse that part of the plane is only for aerodynamical purposes. also since the plane is going to EWR (COs hub) they can repair it there. no need to waste anymore time in BOS


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User currently offlineDeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4974 times:


Maybe they didn't have the piece readily available.

Same thing happened to me on a 733 flight from DFW-PDX. Some piece was missing on the right side near the engine - again, pointed out by a passenger. Pilot called ATL ops and was told to put some more fuel in to compensate for the drag?, and we took off. I was surprised that DFW people didn't have the part, but who knows!

I trust Delta ops, so it didn't bother me!


User currently offlineSq452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4968 times:

yah i mean I could even see through the holes were the screws would go! just looked tacky...


SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineVC-10 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 1999, 3701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4970 times:
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Because it was damaged?

Part of the MEL called the CDL (Configuration Deviation List) contains details of what parts of the plane that are permitted to be missing for dispatch. Each entry will contain any performance decrements ( weight/fuel penalty, speed restriction etc) that are required.

For example a 747 is allowed to be dispatched with a flap fairing missing.

[Edited 2004-06-19 23:43:08]

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

Nothing really scary about it at all, as it sounds like a routinely deferred CDL item...

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

"For example a 747 is allowed to be dispatched with a flap fairing missing."

Indeed, here's a photo:
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Spencer Morgheim - The Arctic Adventure

And while I'm at it, here's a neat thread on missing flap fairings: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/88825/



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offline320tech From Turks and Caicos Islands, joined May 2004, 491 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4824 times:

Missing bits are generally nothing to be concerned about (a wing is not a "bit"  Smile ). As mentioned, all airliners have a configuration deviation list, which defines what can be missing. The aircraft maintenance manual will even define which screws can be missing from which panels.

I encourage anyone who sees something amiss to point it out to the crew, but unless you see it leave, or fluid is pouring out of it, it's generally okay.



The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Just to be correct, we are actually talking about a flap-track fairing right?


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offline320tech From Turks and Caicos Islands, joined May 2004, 491 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4801 times:

Oh, yeah. Don't know a whole lot about 737's, but I've never heard of a "fuel pylon". I hope that's not what the pilot actually said.


The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
User currently offlineSq452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4736 times:

he said pylon, forget if it was "fuel pylon", i dont know what the term is exactly but he did refer to it as just "pylon"


SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4700 times:

I spent the whole summer of 94 unloading N753AS, the last 727 that Alaska Airlines owned.

Since it was the last owned, and it was a freighter, they never replaced that 1st flaptrack fairing on the right side. It was missing the whole summer.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 4633 times:

Back in my days in maintenance engineering I remember coming across an authorization to dispatch and L1011 that was missing one or both of the nose gear stop pads (the friction pads in the nose gear wheel well that stop the rotation of the nose gear wheels). The order mandated that the gear remain extended for about one minute after take-off. The performance guys were on our case for weeks because of that (maintenance replaced that part withing a day or so).

As for missing flap track fairings, other than aerodynamics, they do serve to protect the actual flap tracks from some of the elements. I know, that the 727 and 737 classic, and probably by extension the 747 flap carriage cones are subject to corrosion, they are high tensile 4330(?) steel. I spent allot of time looking into the condition of these parts.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 4601 times:

At LH we used to refer to this piece as the "ice cream cone"

Jan


User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 19 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

yah, it does look like an ice cream cone....thats what i was referring too....take away the ice cream and it just looks like a cone  Smile


SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 5 hours ago) and read 4429 times:

Yeah I was an A319 a few years back and a lot of pieces were missing. A guy called the F/A but she said all was good. And well it was lol.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17039 posts, RR: 66
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 4400 times:

Lots of wuffos think the flap track fairings contain fuel. A holdover from the old days when marginally similar structures were tanks. For example on the Super Connie and the Jetstar.




"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1571 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4344 times:

In an airplane there is a book which contains an approved list of what parts or systems can be inoperative during the flight.This is called MEL (minimum equipment list).

In MEL you can find which equipment can be removed or stickered"inop" for how long time and if the airplane can be given to service by the maintenance.

I am not sure if it is allowed or allowed how long to fly without flap fairrings since I don't have access to a mel at this time but if that airplane is given to the service it sure must be checked from the MEL and taken under records by the captain and the maintenance guys.There is nothing to be scarry under this circumstances.Regards.WING



Widen your world
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4327 times:

Wing,

The MEL is indeed as you say, but a missing fairing or other external part that might affect the aerodynamics of the aircraft is covered by the Configuration Deviation List (CDL) as noted above in other replies...

Cheers...


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17039 posts, RR: 66
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4229 times:

You can probably fly like this for quite a while, but two things will act as an incentive to get it fixed:
- Higher fuel burn.
- Risk of FOD from gravel etc on the flap mechanism.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4162 times:

As mentioned, the CDL will have performance penalties for missing pieces.

A few years ago on rotation for a very heavy 737 takeoff, we got an ANTI-SKID amber light. We took off and climbed out and got out the QRH to look up the fault. It turned out the be "pilot awareness" only, with no corrective action required or available to us.

About five hours later on descent into destination we got an ACARS message that one of our aircraft had left a tire cap and landing gear doors on the runway on takeoff. Well, we knew it was us. We sent the jumpseater back to peek through the periscope and see if he could see any other damage. He could not find the periscope. There was nothing else to be done, and so we continued in for a landing with the equipment standing by.

It turned out that the main gear tire cap had come off, ripped the landing gear door right off the airplane and beat some big dents in the underside of the wing. The tire was still inflated and we taxiied in with no further problem.

I flew the plane again a few weeks later and it was still missing the gear door. I got into the CDL and was surprised by what I found. On the 737 the landing gear door is less of a drag penalty than the hubcap!

Oh! Still don't know why the anti-skid light. It was apparently undamaged.




Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4155 times:

>>>It turned out that the main gear tire cap had come off, ripped the landing gear door right off the airplane and beat some big dents in the underside of the wing. The tire was still inflated and we taxiied in with no further problem.

>>>I flew the plane again a few weeks later and it was still missing the gear door. I got into the CDL and was surprised by what I found. On the 737 the landing gear door is less of a drag penalty than the hubcap!

>>>Oh! Still don't know why the anti-skid light. It was apparently undamaged.


Don't ask me what part # is connected to what part #, but if you lose the hubcab you lose the anti-skid...


CDL 32-41-1 Main Gear Outboard Wheel Speed Transducer Cover and Hubcap Fairing Assembly

Apply anti-skid inoperative performance and procedures limitations.

Remarks and/or Exceptions

Associated anti-skid system must be turned off.

One or both assemblies may be missing provided antiskid inoperative performance limited weights are reduced for each missing item.


User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4080 times:

Don't ask me what part # is connected to what part #, but if you lose the hubcab you lose the anti-skid...

I think when SlamClick says tire cap he's referring to the re-tread or re-cap of the tire itself rather than the hub cap fairing.

Dl757md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4070 times:
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It turned out that the main gear tire cap had come off, ripped the landing gear door right off the airplane and beat some big dents in the underside of the wing. The tire was still inflated and we taxiied in with no further problem.

I'm not a pilot, so not questioning, but curious: my understanding of the 737 is that there is no landing gear door -- at least for the mains -- that instead, they're sealed with the tires and hubcap exposed. Are you talking about the nose gear door? Or is there a door that I'm missing here?  Smile


User currently offlineQantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4069 times:

my understanding of the 737 is that there is no landing gear door -- at least for the mains -- that instead, they're sealed with the tires and hubcap exposed. Are you talking about the nose gear door? Or is there a door that I'm missing here?

While you're right that the wheels themselves aren't covered by any door, there is a door that covers the struts all the way up to the wheels. You may be able to see what I'm talking about in this picture:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bruce Leibowitz



Cheers,
QantasA332


25 Post contains images Flashmeister : Ahh yes, of course... I forgot that the wheels had to attach to something. The marvels of engineering. Thanks for clearing that up.
26 Post contains links and images T prop : I'll bet this isn't on the CDL View Large View MediumPhoto © Norman Gage As far as that antiskid caution light on the 37. A tire throwing a cap m
27 MD11Engineer : With the hub cap you might loose the drive key for the wheel speed transducer. It will simply net be driven anymore. Since on rotation the other wheel
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