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How To Decode Flight Plans?  
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5059 posts, RR: 15
Posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 20290 times:

Is there a web site or resource online that has explanations of the abbreviations used in flight plans? I mean like locations of the waypoints - for example, VXV.J91.TONIO.J42.........etc etc

I was looking at one flight plan and the only one I recognize besides the origin and destination is BGR which is Bangor, Maine.

bruce


Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNonrvsmdmf From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 19390 times:

Bruce..there is nothing to decode.

My advice is to buy some high altitude charts.

VXV.J91.TONIO.J42:

VXV.J91=you leave you house and drive on the street
in front of your house. (VXV =HOUSE. J91=STREET)

.J91.TONIO.J42=as you drive one the street in front of your
house you need to make a turn at an intersection (TONIO)
onto another street (J42).

Get some charts or it will never make any sense.



I did not forget...I just misplaced the thought...
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 19267 times:

>>>VXV.J91.TONIO.J42

Volunteer VOR, jet airway 91 to the TONIO intersection (which is also on J42) and then up J42....

VOR identifiers and 5-character airspace fixes can easily be found on airnav.com...

I agree with the gal from Universal who suggested getting some charts. A set of NACO "high" charts (H1-H11) will cover you 18,000 feet and above, and if you want lower, the "low" charts (L1-L28) can also be had.


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3529 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 19228 times:

flight plan:

IFR/VFR?
Ident
Type/Equipment
TAS
Departure
Departure Time
En Route Altitude
Route
Destination
Time En Route
Remarks
Fuel (hours minutes xx:xx)
Alternate
souls on board




Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineModesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2812 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 19201 times:

Airways starting with "J" are high altitude airways while low altitude airways are "V." Additionally, direct routings have two dots ".." while a routing via a fix or airway is just one dot, ".". 5-letter "words" are intersections while 3-letter "words" are generally VORs. Those are just a few rudimentary rules about routings and flight plans.

User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8309 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 19199 times:

J= Jet airway (high altitude)
V= Victor airway (low altitude)

Nonrvsmdmf explained it better than I ever could have.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5059 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 18492 times:

Ok. I'm going to try one here. Here is an actual real flight plan:

KHSV..VXV.J91.TONIO.J42.KONGO.J145.HVQ.J78.PSB.J49.BGR.J581.YJT..CYMON..DENDU..5100N/05000W..5200N/04000W..5300N/03000W..5300N/02000W..MALOT.UL9.BURAK.UN536.DUB.UL975.WAL.UM16.DOLAS.UL603.EVELI.UL19.TULIP.UL74.RTM..EBLG/0745

So this plane departs 36R and turns northeast, heading to Knoxville where VXV is....then follows airway J91 to the TONIO intersection which is near eastern Kentucky, turns at that intersection to airway J42 and heads to KONGO where he will turn again more to the north on airway J145 to HVQ which is the Charleston, WV vortac (probably near the charleston airport?)...

then its on airway J78 to PSP - the Phillipsburg vortac in Phillipsburg, PA (west of the town of State College, PA) where he will turn once again onto J49 and head up to the BGR vortac in Bangor, Maine...

then following airway J581 to YJT which is the Stephenville vortac in Canada - which is in Newfoundland. Then he will proceed direct to CYMON (what is CYMON? Its not listed) and then direct DENDU (again, not listed???)

Then onto the North Atlantic Crossing lat/long points......

airnav doesn't list european waypoints! So this is as far as I got..

Now when I tried to input the lat/long's of the vortac's onto my map I got some pretty crazy turns (kentucky - west va. - penn.) so I guess I am reading them wrong maybe?

bruce



Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5059 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 18380 times:

Aw crap...... I dont know how that happened but the buttons on the top of my last post are gone so I can't edit it.... and somehow the forum cropped off the right half of all my sentences!!!

Here is the flight plan copied again:

KHSV..VXV.J91.TONIO.J42.KONGO.J145.HVQ.J78.PSB.J49.BGR.J581.YJT..
CYMON..DENDU..5100N/05000W..5200N/04000W..5300N/03000W..
5300N/02000W..MALOT.UL9.BURAK.UN536.DUB.UL975.WAL.UM16.DOLAS.
UL603.EVELI.UL19.TULIP.UL74.RTM..EBLG/0745

So it is J91 to the TONIO interesction, turning to follow J42 to the KONGO
intersection, then a turn to J145 and on to HVQ....

airnav gives the lat/long of the fixes but when i try and plot them on MS Streets&Trips I get some wacky turns. I might be entering the numbers in the wrong format for lat/long....

bruce

[Edited 2004-07-19 06:32:35]

[Edited 2004-07-19 06:34:43]


Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5059 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 18058 times:

On a related question, when I look up navaid fixes and VORs why are there 2 sets of lat/long listed....they correspond to different locations on a map.

For example, HVQ (charleston vortac) is listed as:

38-20-58.836N / 081-46-11.688W

and also:

38.3496767/-81.7699133

and the second one I think is more accurate as it points to a map location in the city of Charleston, W. VA

bruce



Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6070 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 17865 times:

These are just two different ways of expressing longitude and latitude. Mapquest will let you use both, as an example.


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5059 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 17782 times:

Yeah, but the locations that each points to are different on my map! It would make a big difference in the flight plan!

bruce



Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6070 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 17644 times:

Are you sure that you put them in correctly?


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5059 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 17619 times:

Well, is 38-20-58.836N equal to 38.205836 ??? That is how I entered it.

bruce



Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6070 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 17311 times:

I see where you are going.

The former is traditional Lat/Lon values; the latter is a newer version, called Decimal (for obvious reasons.)



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offline5T6 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 17274 times:

Well, is 38-20-58.836N equal to 38.205836 ??? That is how I entered it.

No, it's not. Remember, you're working in "Base 60".

38-20-58-36 = 38.3496767 as stated above. The "decimal" is for the minutes and seconds.

60 x .3496767 = 20.98060

60 x .98060 = 58.836

Hope that helps,


Mike



I see my Cats as Companions. My Cats see Me as Furniture!
User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1573 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 17232 times:

VXV.J91.TONIO.J42.........

After waypoint VXV,via airway J91 to TONIO point,after that via airway J42 to some other way point etc....



Widen your world
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5059 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17192 times:

That's why I avoided math in college. I suck at it. I have heard of working in different "base" numbers but have no clue how to convert. I can't get the same figure.


Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6871 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17165 times:

Sure you can-- you're just thinking it's more complicated than it is.

38-20-58.836 means 38 degrees, plus 20 minutes, plus 58.836 seconds. A minute is a sixtieth of a degree and a second is a sixtieth of a minute.

So 20 minutes is a third of a degree; add 58.836 seconds which is 0.0163433 degrees-- total 0.3496767 degrees.


User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 17127 times:

anyone know why you always say "x souls on board" when calling in a flight plan? i never really understood that.


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17120 times:

>>>anyone know why you always say "x souls on board" when calling in a flight plan? i never really understood that.

I've always presumed that, in the event you crashed, it was so they'd know how many bodies/survivors to look for. Use of the word "souls" connotates the total number of humans onboards, irrespective of whether they're pax or crew.


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 17092 times:

That is correct for SOBs. And it doesn't matter whether the inert person in front of you is passenger or crew, they are all the same to CFR crews.

When declaring an emergency and asking for "the equipment" they always want to know souls on board and fuel in pounds. In the simulator, eight out of ten want to give the fuel on board in time remaining. Funny when you think that it is a fire crew that is asking. Do you mean that if your wings are torn off and the fuel spills all over the runway that it will burn for four hours and ten minutes?




Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 17074 times:

i wrote that wrong. why do we say souls and not something else. i know why you give a count of those on board.


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 17064 times:

>>>i wrote that wrong. why do we say souls and not something else.

If there were to ask "how many people onboard", I guess they felt that some pilots might be more apt to report just passengers, but not crew. While it's true that someone could pax souls versus crew souls, I guess someone felt the term "souls" was more naturally oriented to the total number of folks onboard the aircraft.


User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 17050 times:

What does a / mean?

Ex.:

MDW./.EON187002..SPI
and
TOL./.VWV.V92.GSH.GSH3.DRIVR.GSH3.MDW

joe


User currently offlineNonrvsmdmf From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 17005 times:

MDW./.EON187002..SPI

Looks like MDW is the departure airport, direct to radial 187 at 02nm from
wpt EON ..(two dots mean direct) direct to wpt SPI

TOL./.VWV.V92.GSH.GSH3.DRIVR.GSH3.MDW

TOL apt to wpt VWB airway v92 to GSH then the
GSH3 arrival(STAR) into MDW.

I do't know why the STAR is in the route string twice
though.



I did not forget...I just misplaced the thought...
25 Bruce : Now 2 more related questions: is there any logic to the numbering of airways? In other words, do the numbers themselves mean anything? like J14, J91,
26 Nonrvsmdmf : Bruce, As far as the airways, in the US a "J" airway means its a jet airway for FL180 and above inclusive of FL180. A "V" is a victor airway for FL179
27 Planespotting : There is some logic however to the waypoints made by intersections of VOR radials and want not. Not necessarily good logic, but the FAA does have a se
28 Bruce : Well since we're on the topic of waypoints there are some near Nashville (think country music...) called GUITR and HEHAW and of course all of Tennesse
29 Post contains images OPNLguy : One of the ILS approaches has the following intersections (in sequence): SPICY BARBQ RIBBS... One of the approaches at PSM has intersections being the
30 KALB : BOSOX is near Boston.
31 ZID : On the HEHAW arrival into Nashville, there are the PICKN and GRNIN intersections. On the SWEED arrival into Cincinnati somebody in airspace and proced
32 ZID : Jjbiv, ./. simply means a truncated route. So in your examples : MDW./.EON187002..SPI and TOL./.VWV.V92.GSH.GSH3.DRIVR.GSH3.MDW We're just looking at
33 Jjbiv : Thank you very much, ZID. I figured it was something along those lines since they are never filed like that, but converted into truncated form once ai
34 Thvgjp : Does anybody know what the numbers at the end of a flight plan mean? Ex. BWI.V93..PSB149..V265.HAR..MDT/0023. What does the 0023 indicate? Also can an
35 OPNLguy : 0023 is the time enroute hours/minutes, i.e. 23 minutes
36 ZID : THVGJP, BWI.V93..PSB149..V265.HAR..MDT means that the pilot will fly on victor airway 93 out of BWI until intercepting the PSB 149 degree radial, then
37 Post contains links and images Fly2HMO : KPHX STARS are plagued with basketball references, like HOOPS, SUNSS, SLAMN, DUNKK http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0408/00322SUNSS.PDF
38 WindowSeat : Well, There's a YAHOO intersection near Nantucket Island. cheers
39 Spencer : In the UK at least, airway designators originally come from colour codes. Upper Golf One, UG1, was once Upper Green One. Amber, white, blue and red ha
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