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Towbarless & Tow Bar Towing Vehicles  
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7112 times:

Whats the Advantage of a Towbarless v/s a Towbar Towing vehicle if there is Any.
I'm very familiar with A towbar Vehicle,but have not seen a Towbarless towing vehicle in Action.Anyone having detailed pictures on how it works.
regds
HAWK


Think of the brighter side!
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWillo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7036 times:

try this recent thread

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/85868/


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7002 times:

Anyone with pictures.
Regds
HAWK



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6971 times:

With a towbarless tug, there is only one pivot point - being the actual nose wheel itself.

With a tug and bar, there are 2 pivot points - the nosewheel and the bar/tug.

Therefore it is slightly easier to manouver the a/c in tight spaces with a towbarless tug (or TBL as they tend to be known).

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineMsl747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6945 times:

"Anyone with pictures"

Yup

Towbar:

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Photo © Ricardo Morales Aviation Photography of Mexico
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Photo © Antonio Carrasquilla - IBERIAN SPOTTERS



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Photo © Chaim Van Prooyen
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Photo © Red-Phoenix AirPics



Towbarless:

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Photo © H. Meier
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Photo © Borja Perera



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Photo © Jonathan Simmons
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Photo © Derek Pedley - AirTeamImages




-Msl747 Smile/happy/getting dizzy



Commercial Pilot Certificate: Single and Multi-Engine Land; Instrument Airplane
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6854 times:

Nice Pics.Are there Any Pics with a closer view.
How is the Mounting/Demounting of the Towbarless mechanism carried out.
regds
HAWK

[Edited 2004-08-07 20:53:21]


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6846 times:

On the towbarless I have used:

You drive up and center up on the gear (chocks out)
Drive the tug forward until contacting the tires with the cradle (a light on the dash illuminates)
Close the cradle. Again a light illuminates when closed and locked.
Lift the nose until, you guessed it, a light illuminates.

I preferred using towbarless because I felt I had more control of the tug/aircraft. I insisted on it when pulling into, or out of, a crowded hangar or parking area.


User currently offlineBryanG From United States of America, joined May 1999, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6843 times:

I've never, ever seen a TBL used in the USA. They must be extremely rare here.

Most people here are used to seeing "pushbacks," as we call towbar-using machines. That betrays the typical scope of their jobs... merely to back the aircraft up away from the gate and turn it around. A TBL system would be terribly complex if that's all you need to do.


User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6823 times:

Actually a towbarless system is less manpower intensive, safer (no towbar to shear) and holds the aircraft under more positive control. The pushes appear to be smoother and can be done faster.

Most airlines in the US already have a large capital investment in tug/bar combinations, why change if you don't have to? We have a couple in our SDF operation because we need them at certain spots. And as I said earlier: We just love them for going into and out of traffic.


User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6788 times:

i actually got to play with a towbar-less tug once and didn't really like it. give me a towbar and tug any day. i love having that long stick up front.  Big grin


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14030 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6782 times:

Yes, but those towbarless tugs contain more proximity sensors and relays than an A/C. Here in CGN they always break down.

Jan


User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6746 times:

We wound up taking out all the factory sensors and installed our own (when the warrenty expired). Now they hardly ever breakdown.

User currently offlineDalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2559 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6725 times:

Towbarless tugs are used in the US. DL has two in ATL. Don't look for them at the gates though. They are rarely used for pushback. They are kept busy moving airplanes to and from Maintanence or remote parking areas. This is what they are best at since they can travel at taxi speeds. I believe CO also has some at EWR.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17054 posts, RR: 67
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6714 times:

ARN is full of them. Classic Scandinavia. Manpower is way expensive there and investing in the latest gadgets to save on it pays off sooner than in most of the rest of the world.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineWomBat151 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6696 times:

Is a towbarless tug rare in europe? Here at Schiphol Amsterdam (AMS) we almost only use Towbarless trucks.


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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt




Ian @ EHAM (AMS), 3,1NM of SPY VOR radial 205
User currently offlineContact_tower From Norway, joined Sep 2001, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6685 times:

The towbarless tugs are also said to be better on ice/snow because of greater traction. Hence very attractive in Scandinavia.

User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3474 posts, RR: 47
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6638 times:

I've never, ever seen a TBL used in the USA. They must be extremely rare here.

Virtually all AA's LAX pushbacks are done with the new tugs.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineORDflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

ATA uses towbarless tugs for pushback at MDW, as well as moving planes back and forth from the hangars.

User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6611 times:

I have seen the towbarless tugs at IAH moving 777s and 767s around

User currently offlineLineMechQX From United States of America, joined May 2004, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6584 times:

Horizon uses TBL's "lectrocarts" exclusively for pushbacks, the only time we use towbars are moving airplanes for maintenance. ie in the hangar.

Late
PC


User currently offlineTechrep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6459 times:

Also aircraft must be certified for towbarless towing. For example the Dornier 328 prop is certified and the 328 JET is not.

TechRep


User currently offlineDAL7001 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6391 times:

Actuay we at DL have three in ATL. We refer to them as supertugs which are made by Goldhoofer. We us them mainly at night to move a/c to/from mtc areas to their gates. We also do alot of gate/gate movements prior to the morning push.


KATL
User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6342 times:

Actually I was wondering about the physics behind this tow-truck thing. Say you tow a fully laden B747 which has mass about 395,000kg you'll probably need a force of about 500000N to get it moving... how is it possible for the truck to produce such a force without the tires screeching the ground? Amazing...


Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21478 posts, RR: 54
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6339 times:

The "Supertugs" carry the nose landing gear, they don´t just drag it. That´s the trick. They grab the gear and lift it up. As a consequence, they don´t need much ballast weight (if any), since the plane will already supply it.

Conventional tugs come with significant amounts of ballast to get enough traction.


User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6200 times:

You could always do it YXY style where the aircraft are positioned far enough back from the terminal so the bridge is streched out a little more then come time to leave its pulled in and swings to the side, leaving just enough room for the 737 to do a very tight right turn and taxi out all on its own power. And for towing to/from the hangars the only people that do that here are Air North and they use a large forklift type thing that they rigged up to tow their HS748s and B732s between the terminal and their barns.

Just thought I'd throw in a story from the north  Smile
CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
25 SupraZachAir : You could always do it YXY style where the aircraft are positioned far enough back from the terminal so the bridge is streched out a little more then
26 Teva : Now, FMC is producing towbarless pushbacks. As a result, it will be more and more common in the States. Another advantage of thos push: you need only
27 Post contains images Lorm : I swear I've seen one of these towbarless tugs in SFO many years ago bring a UAL 742 to our gate from MX to the hanger.. whether they stilll have them
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