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767 Landings  
User currently offlineTexasflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 79 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9034 times:

I've been on exactly 8 767 flights with Air Canada, Delta, KLM, and AA. And for some reason they always take off real smoothly but then the landings are unusually hard. Is this a characteristic of the plane or have I just had bad luck on all my flights? The 757's that I've flown on land better.


We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it. Thomas Jefferson
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAms From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1689 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8967 times:

for some reason they always take off real smoothly but then the landings are unusually hard.

Yes I tend to agree with you on hard landings on 767's. I fly 767 aircraft quite frequently and also noticed this.


Regards,
AMS


User currently offlineRsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8940 times:




Ive also noticed that true on 757s as well........I read that USAir was going to early retire some of their 757 because of main gear structual damge.

I think the 57/67 have problems when they are in ground effect distance.



Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8911 times:

Having flown the 757 not the 767, I disagree. Because of the tilt of the main landing gear, normally touchdowns are much smoother. Unlike the 727/737/A-320 which don't have the tilt type of main landing gear.

As far as USAir retiring aircraft early, if there was damage, the aircraft wouldn't be flying at all. The gear struts are a timed assembly, meaning they are only good for so many hours/cycles and then they have to be overhauled.

Since USAir has some of the ex-EAL 757s they may be parking them rather than doing heavy mx on them.


User currently offlineKlmyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8839 times:

I've flown both as well, and got consistently better touchdowns in the 757 as opposed to the 767. I have no idea why. For some reason I could really hold the 757 off and work it on gently, which I've never been able to do consistently with the 76.

User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8790 times:

I´ve had smooth and hard landings on every aircraft type I´ve flown.

About the 757...I´m still waiting to experience a soft landing, but if we talk about the 767...I had one of my best landings ever on a DL 763 back in 2001 at MAD coming from ATL.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineAirportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3451 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8744 times:

"Unlike the 727/737/A-320 which don't have the tilt type of main landing gear."

of course not. what is there to tilt even if they wanted too? lol  Smile

When I flew jetBlue's A320 "Absolute Blue" couple weeks back, smoothest landing Ive been through (besides my own  Big grin coughcough*bullshit*coughcough)



hit it and quit it
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8434 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8721 times:

When I landed at CNS in '98 in a QF 767 the overhead bins moved around quite alot and the landing was fairly hard. Not sure if it was the runway or what was going on there.

User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8716 times:

I call the 767 the fat ass of the sky. This is b/c whenever I see a 767 on the ground the back wheels are ALWAYS lower than the front. This might play in a role in how much of the a/c is taking the landing. I personally like harder landings than softer b/c you can feel the force of landing.


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These a/c to me and everyother 767-200/300 that Iv'e seen have lower belly's and higher noses. This to me is unlike any other a/c out there.

Thanks again!

Hope this helps a bit!



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineFlykal From Australia, joined Sep 2003, 442 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8583 times:

AirPortugal310 said: of course not. what is there to tilt even if they wanted too? lol

A little research would prove that you are actually wrong!!


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One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time
User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4356 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8571 times:

I think that the forward tilt of the 767 landing gear (made this way to fit into the bays) could be the reason for the harder touchdowns. Through several 767 flights, casual observation, and a little flight sim i think the unique 767 tilt makes it a bit more challenging to pull off a smooth landing.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineRed Panda From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2000, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8551 times:

Does the hard landing experienced has something to do with that 767 has forward tilted landing gears instead of backward tilted landing gears found in other a/c types such as 747 ,777, 330, 340?

r panda


User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8535 times:

I think Red Panda is right. The other a/c slide onto the runway as to the 767 which stubs it's gear onto the runway. Great observation Red Panda!

Thanks again!

UA777222



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineTrolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8451 times:

Pre Sept 11 I was lucky enough to be up front for quite a few 767 landings on QF. The pilots say that they like to plant the plane down firmly to activate the autobrakes etc and avoid aquaplaning on wet runways.

User currently offlineFlykal From Australia, joined Sep 2003, 442 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 8179 times:

Pre Sept 11 I was lucky enough to be up front for quite a few 767 landings on QF. The pilots say that they like to plant the plane down firmly to activate the autobrakes etc and avoid aquaplaning on wet runways.

This is not specific to the 767. Landing technique is determined by conditions...not passenger expectations!  Smile



One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time
User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 690 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7966 times:

It also depends on who's landing the plane. Fly with a pilot who used to be in the Navy and you'll land as if you're stopping short on an aircraft carrier. After a landing like that, I'll go up to the cockpit and ask, "Did you fly in the Navy?" He'll unvariably say yes!

The 767 fishtails a lot. I've had some landings on the 767 that have been really smooth, and others where you feel as if you've been shot down. The smoothest landings I've had have been on the 777, although once in my four years of working on the 777, I had a rough landing, but I attribute it to the first officer who was landing.

I haven't been on a 757 in a long time- I'm a widebody kind of guy- so I don't remember what landing are like on the plane.


User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7774 times:

I have had hard and soft landings on 767s. My only hard landings were when the flight was a trans-con or crossing the Atlantic and my only soft landings were doing flights like LGA-ATL or ATL-MCO.

 Smile
-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineBoo25 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7382 times:

I'm cabin crew on the 767-300ER, and i often sit at doors 3 (above the gear) for takeoff/landing.

It does have an unusually large 'thump' on landing, and many pilots have said it IS because of the forward tiliting gear.
As the front gear touches, it brings the rear tyres down very rapidly behind it!

I have witnessed ceiling panels come down on a couple of occasions and even the odd O2 mask!!

Strangely , if you sin the flight deck for landing , the sensation is quite the opposite!
The noise and 'touchdown' seem to be completely 'soaked up' by the long fuselage and even a hardish landing feels very soft up front.
From this point of view , it may be hard for the flight crew to use their senses to determine how good/bad their landing was!!

We took it into Aberdeen one night , very foggy, full load, small runway with terrain - that was a hell of a thump  Wow!


User currently offlineAAMD11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1056 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7327 times:

I flew on 2 767s; BA LHR-PRH and back.

our landing in PRH wasnt exactly soft, but not as hard as some landings I've had. Landing back in LHR 4 days later again seemed quite soft.

Hard landings tho... I think the hardest landing I ever experienced was a BD flight from Milan Linate to LHR on a 733
We got above 10 or 20 feet above the runway, and then we floated and we just seemed to be holding the same altitude for about 5 seconds, then suddenly the plane dropped onto the runway. We hit terra ferma so hard that at least 10 overhead bins flung open.


User currently offlineJeffDCA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6926 times:

It is indeed due to the landing gear tilt. Apparently it was discovered that upon landing the 767 had a tendancy to pitch up, so Boeing installing a forward tilting landing gear that helps pitch the aircraft down. It does however result in a harder landing than other aircraft. There is a post on this with further details somewhere in the tech/ops forum.

I think the A330 has the smoothest touchdown around. Incredible to watch every time.

The pilots say that they like to plant the plane down firmly to activate the autobrakes etc and avoid aquaplaning on wet runways.

That's a procedure relative to every aircraft type, not just the 76. It's known as a positive touch down, and is done, as you say, in wet conditions to make sure the wheels penetrate any standing water to avoid aquaplaning.

Cheers,

Jeff


User currently offlineWilax From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 465 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6768 times:

If we are talking about roughness felt during a normal', smooth glide to the runway and not just a hard drop out of the sky, I would argue that the deep forward tilt of the main carriage is the culprit. There is no other commercial jet, including the A310 and Tu154, with such a pronounced forward tilt of the main landing gear. Such a tilt would actually worsen the smoothness of touchdown simply by the fact that even with good flare of the airframe right before touchdown, the front wheels of the main bogies will contact the ground first which will actuate rearward force on the entire strut assembly. Then. as the gear begins to compress, there will be forward force on the strut until the rear wheels make contact again reversing the force of rolling friction. That is three distinct jolts to the main gear at touchdown in rapid succession. That has got to affect the smoothness of landing in a 767...

Just a theory...


User currently offlineAAMD11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1056 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

I've had a single A330 flight and I have to say it was a very sweet landing, I wasn't sure we'd even touched down until the reverse thrust had started to slow us down.

although I can't recall a landing in a 777 that was far from smooth, they've all been pretty good, except maybe a flight into YUL in the Wintertime, the landing wasn't really harsh, but the speed with which the plane was brought to a stop was really quite something to feel. Must have had everything out to stop us quickly... it seems they wanted to taxi off the active as soon as possible.

I think it's loads of fun when they do that on landing, you come in nice and smoothly, then they use everything they can to stop you. You can kinda feel the inertia as the plane slows down so dramatically and you're body is still going foward (thank god for seatbelts  Nuts)


User currently offlineTexasflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5607 times:

How different are the landing gears of the 757 and 767? Because the difference in landing was huge.


We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it. Thomas Jefferson
User currently offlineTexasflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5584 times:

Is the 767-400 any smoother on landings? I've only flown on the 200 and 300 series. I was wondering if they managed to improve the landings in the 400s.


We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it. Thomas Jefferson
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3236 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5495 times:

I'd have to say that it was just bad luck. I've had the hardest landing of my life on a 763, (some oxygen masks came down and the marjority of the overhead baggage compartments opened) and I've had a landing so soft I didn't even know we were on the ground (it was night and I was in the middle seat) until the reversers activated, and both flights were with LAN. I guess it just depends on the pilot.

25 CPDC10-30 : Thanks for bringing up this topic. I have always wondered if I was just on crack or something but I have always experienced the roughest landings in 7
26 Post contains images OB1504 : I've found that the landings in the 767 tend to be softer if you sit in the middle seats around the emergency exits since the seats are right over the
27 AJ : I've managed some greasers and I've managed some clunkers in the 767, it's certainly not as predictable as a 747! Approaching the flare the aircraft i
28 Post contains images Airportugal310 : Hey flykal & others: how many A320s have landing gear like that in that picture? that is completely new to me. proved wrong! slam later
29 Boeing4ever : I believe only AI ordered A320s with double-bogey main gear. B4e-Forever New Frontiers
30 Wilax : The 757's gear carriage is alot smaller and the bogie tilts slightly the other way, the logical way. The 8-wheel main gear was an option on the A320 f
31 Post contains links and images Erwin972 : Talking about hard landings in a 767: View Large View MediumPhoto © Erwin Kind regards, Erwin
32 Brons2 : On my recent European trip, I had a very, very soft landing at AMS in the DL 763 (in wet conditions no less), and a very firm landing at CVG, also on
33 Post contains links WindowSeat : if you want to watch a smooth 767 landing (at least it appears to be) go to http://www.voyageratlantic.com/clips cheers
34 RCS763av : Flown twice on 767. BOG-JFK, and FLL-BOG. Really smooth takeohh, hardass landing.
35 Post contains images ClipperNo1 : The infamous TACA 767 video shows the effect of aquaplaning after a rather smooth landing (judiging from the video angle), althouhg many other things
36 SlamClick : As JeffDCA said, it is procedure to touch down firmly. Those greasejobs may be fun, and might please the passengers but they are not as safe, and it i
37 Post contains images AAR90 : I think that the forward tilt of the 767 landing gear (made this way to fit into the bays) could be the reason for the harder touchdowns. Bingo! Accor
38 Oklso : While interesting, all the listed reasons for the tilt on the B767 landing gear are speculation. Boeing designed the gear to tilt, actually its driven
39 AJ : An answer we recieved from a Boeing rep for the reason the gear tilts forwards not backwards (both ways would fit in the bays) is that forwards is a l
40 Nudelhirsch : While the main bogie of the 767 withe the forward tilt logically should make a harder landing, do not forget when comparing that to the sister, the 75
41 RHSNYC : WOW! I've been cabin crew on the 767 for about 15 years. NOW I know why the landings always feel like a "controlled crash"!
42 Post contains links and images IL76 : Just as an illustration of a 767's hard landing: View Large View MediumPhoto © Eduard Brantjes I've not experienced any hard landings on a 767 yet th
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