Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4643 times:
According to 14CFR 121.310, if there is an emergency exit in the flightcrew compartment, the door must be latched open for takeoff and landing. Now, my question is, what aircraft have this kind of setup?
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UA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 13 Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4588 times:
I think that means that the door will be aviable in the event of an emergency. Of course you will have measures in place so the door/hatch won't open in flight (causing depressurization) and that when taking off and landing (probably the highest chance to get in an incident requiring an emergency evac.) you will need something set to counter the measures in place so that the doors will open and the crew can get out with out incients.
Hope this helps and I hope others can clarify for both you and I b/c I too have wondered this.
Thanks again!
UA777222
***Spell check not working, Sorry if a bit messy***
320tech From Turks and Caicos Islands, joined May 2004, 487 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4582 times:
Probably all large aircraft have emergency exits in the cockpit. The ones I'm familiar with, the A320 and the Dash-8, both have them. The A320 uses the sliding window, and the Dash has an escape hatch in the cockpit ceiling. Both aircraft have ropes for the crew to use to get to the ground.
I don't know about latching the door open, I never get to ride up front .
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9292 posts, RR: 12 Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4570 times:
121.310 is a huge chapter... please give part and sub-part references so I can get a look at the section you are talking about.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
320tech From Turks and Caicos Islands, joined May 2004, 487 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4565 times:
Is this the section you're referring to? This is the only mention I could find of latching doors in this section, and it's referring to the pax cabin.
(6) If it is necessary to pass through a doorway separating the passenger cabin from other areas to reach required emergency exit from any passenger seat, the door must have a means to latch it in open position, and the door must be latched open during each takeoff and landing. The latching means must be able to withstand the loads imposed upon it when the door is subjected to the ultimate inertia forces, relative to the surrounding structure, listed in §25.561(b) of this chapter.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4555 times:
That's the one. I didn't have the exact reference, as I was using what was given to me.
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EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9292 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4551 times:
OK...that has nothing to do with the cockpit.
All that is saying is that in the cabin, during take off or landing you can not block and access to an emergancy exit by an impassiable door. Part of the reason the F/A's leave the curtians open during T/O and landing. Also, the door must be strong enough to stay open. It can not be jared shut in an accident.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4538 times:
After reading the previous response, and thoroughly reading the quoted text, I did a little investigation, and found that the question that quoted what I quoted, is not quoting the same material, as the wording is different in all respects. A search of 121.310 for the word "flightcrew" turns up one hit, and it is in another area of the text. Therefore, the question specific to this regulation is misquoting the regulations that it is supposed to imply. :P
Try saying that three times fast. :P
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
Andz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8306 posts, RR: 11 Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4511 times:
The wording in the paragraph quoted by 320tech obviously refers to the cockpit door, and these days this regulation is not relevant due to the increased safety and security measures in force.
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FredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2184 posts, RR: 26 Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4440 times:
If you read 121.310 (4) and (5) as well there is little doubt in my mind that it is indeed doors between passenger compartments the quoted text is referring to, even if the text in (6) is not completely clear on this.
As for exits in the flight crew compartment: §25.809 (j) [...] For airplanes in which the proximity of passenger emergency exits to the flightcrew area dpes not offer a convenient and readily accessible means of evacuation of the flightcrew, and for all aircraft having a passenger seating capacit greter than 20, flightcrew exits shall be located in the flightcrew area. [...]
Regards,
Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31228 posts, RR: 58 Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4387 times:
The B737s have their #2 Sliding window on either side as an Emergency exit,the other is the Door seperating the cockpit from the Cabin.
On some Aircrafts the Sliding windows can be operated from outside too,on others from the F/O side only.
regds
HAWK
Mr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2782 posts, RR: 15 Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4377 times:
Hi guys.
Regarding Emergency Exits in airliner cockpits, here's a discussion we had back in March 04, about just how pilots escape through cockpit windows via the use of a "Flight Compartment Emergency Descent Device", also known as "Zip Lines".
The A300, B727, B767, and C-17 Globemaster are mentioned.
This is just a little bit of extra info regarding Emergency Exits in the cockpit that I thought I'd add to this thread.
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9292 posts, RR: 12 Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4303 times:
The access hatch located behind the nose gear on the 747 is NOT used as an emergency exit. It is used to access the lower avionics compartment and you can make your way up into the first class cabin.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
Philsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4285 times:
Ok, I guess I am confused. For example on the 744, even though there is a hatch in the cockpit, it's not considered an "emergency exit" for pax evacuation purposes. If I am not mistaken on all large turbojet aircraft, that's the case. I know it's true on all the aircraft I have flown as a crewmember (727,757,A320,DC-10,747,747-400).
Yes, there are evacuation routes in the cockpit, but they're not for passengers and not therefore accessible to the passengers.
Lorm From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 409 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4269 times:
Well, unless the pilots didn't use the ditching repelling cords in the 747 you would have a long way to freefall if you were a trying to evacuate from the cockpit roof hatch. I forget, but what is the proper termonology for that roof rappeling system..
-Mike
If you're wondering what I am talking about...
In the 747 near the roof escape hatch in the cockpit, there are two long reels of wire (3 in the 747 classics, one for each crewmember) that you grasp and allow you to rappel down the side of the fuselage. They each have a braking system, with a trigger? (can't remember) which allow you to slow down enough so you can safely rappel to the ground. I don't have that page of F/A manual anymore but I did read it and have seen in the cockpit before.
Lorm From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 409 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4269 times:
L1011 has a cockpit roof excape hatch... bleh forgot to add that in my previous post....and didn't bother to read Spacemans post about zip lines =O
Philsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4258 times:
Actually in the 747 and 744 pax version there are 5 inertia reels and 8 in the freighters.
You don't actually repel, the reels will slow you down as you get towards the ground. The final "leap" to the ground would be like jumping off a 6' wall.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13369 posts, RR: 64 Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4259 times:
When I was nonreving on a Channel Express A300 B4 freighter (CGN--> DUB) once, the F/E told me during the safety briefing that even with those escape devices I´d better get out of the cockpit feet first, because I would hit the ground "like a barrel of bricks".
SafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 16 Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4240 times:
In the 747 near the roof escape hatch in the cockpit, there are two long reels of wire (3 in the 747 classics, one for each crewmember) that you grasp and allow you to rappel down the side of the fuselage. They each have a braking system, with a trigger? (can't remember) which allow you to slow down enough so you can safely rappel to the ground. I don't have that page of F/A manual anymore but I did read it and have seen in the cockpit before.
Adding on to that, once one of those things is retracted, it cannot be used again (except for when maintenance properly restores it). I will check from FA manuals and videos and try to get some more information.
Widebody From Ireland, joined Aug 2000, 1150 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4008 times:
The regulation 320tech quotes and Goldenshield is referring to has nothing got to do with the cockpit, it only refers to pax compartments.....quote "to reach required emergency exit from any passenger seat".......on all modern day jets, the required passenger emergency exits (to meet regulations on seat distance rules, 90 sec rule etc.) are all in the cabin/pax compartment.
Since the introduction of the reinforced cockpit doors, which must be shut at all times, there is an escape hatch included in the door for flight crew escape. Bascially the rule says that there must be an alternative exit point in the crash case if the cockpit door is unopenable. While the cockpit window is another option (escape rope in most cockpits just above window), it's not ideal.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4006 times:
I am pretty sure that this regulation concerns itself with exits that the passengers may be required to use, and not cockpit escape windows. It was one of the questions in the ATP database.
It was my understanding that the 747-100 had such an exit. It was a floor-level, full height exit with a slide and that the cockpit door had to be latched open during takeoff and landing. Was that information wrong?
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SafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 16 Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4009 times:
It was my understanding that the 747-100 had such an exit. It was a floor-level, full height exit with a slide and that the cockpit door had to be latched open during takeoff and landing. Was that information wrong?
The upper deck door on the 747-100 and -200 was not a full height exit, but was rather a much smaller door. I believe that it pretty much had the same proportions of the regular 747 door, but was about a third smaller. Also, I am pretty sure that the door opens and then slides along the inside of the fuselage. The evacuation slide then has to be deployed (manually).
As for the cockpit door being open, I am not sure about that.
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