Soaringadi From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 472 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2242 times:
I am about to start lessons for my instrument rating, and was wondering about which aircraft should I use. I did my private in a C-172, so I was considering whether to continue with it, or to go for Piper warrior ? I know that the Cessna has gravity fed pumps, so 1 less thing to go wrong and all.... but just neede an opinion.
Pilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3117 posts, RR: 11 Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2119 times:
Fuel pumps shoulnd't be a major concern. Both of these aircraft aren't ideal for blasting off into the clouds as they don't have enough reduncacy built into them to really be considered a good platform for really serious IMC conditions much like they aren't good for long distances or carrying lots of passengers. They're good for learning how to fly and this applies to your instrument training.
Having said this, I say go with the aircraft that you are most familiar with. Approaches are very high-workload times and spending time looking for a fuel pump switch could cause you to end up in a very dangerous situation. Also, if the weather permits, get your instructor to take you into the clouds because there is no substitute for the real thing in this case. Enjoy your training.
FinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2060 times:
I agree with pilotpip, you should start learning instrument flying with the aircraft you are most familiar. It would be much easier studying if you must learn only the IFR procedures and not also the new aircraft with its special characteristics. So instead of two new things at the same time you have to learn just one new thing if you'll choose to do your IR in C172.
Mr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2786 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2044 times:
>> Pilotpip ........
"Both of these aircraft aren't ideal for blasting off into the clouds as they don't have enough redundancy built into them."
I understand what you're implying, but, what if his Flight School does have a Skyhawk or Warrior with .....
Dual Vacum Pumps.
An Alternate Air Source.
Multiple Static Ports.
Pitot Tube Heat.
Electric Back-Up instruments.
Gyro Back-Up intruments.
A very good GPS unit (such as a Garmin 530 for example).
The best NAV/COM radios money can buy.
Etc, Etc, Etc ........
They'd be good enough then, to train in, for an IFR rating wouldn't they?
Oops, I'm sorry about that, I must have been day-dreaming about a Flying Club that doesn't exsist.
"spending time looking for a fuel pump switch could cause you to end up in a very dangerous situation."
Well, IMO, if you need time to FIND a fuel pump switch (how much time could that take???? ) during the high workload part of an approach in serious IMC conditions ........ you have no business flying that airplane in the first place!!! Or even being near it, whether it's a Cessna-172 Skyhawk, a Piper PA-28-151 Warrior .......... or a Piper PA-32R-301T Saratoga II TC, a Mooney 252, a Beech A36 Bonanza or even a Piper PA-46-350P Malibu Mirage ......... if you don't have the cockpit layout of the aircraft you're going to train in memorized (especially when IFR training), then stick to VFR "fair weather" flying!!! How hard can it be to find fuel pump switches in YOUR cockpit???? even if you're in some good chop!
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 69 Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2023 times:
Oh! I thought you needed financial help, that is why I opened this thread.
Well, since you don't, let me address your question.
I would agree with the guys who said stick with the familiar plane. The instrument rating will be pretty intense. Most of us think it was the single most difficult gradient on our training programs. Make it simple in any legitimate way you can.
I had to take instrument and multiengine training (in the Army) at the same time. We had nice planes, T-42A's (Beech Baron) but it was really a lot of effort even for those of us who already had at least a private license. Quite a few of my classmates busted out at this point and all of us had to work really hard at it.
If I was paying for it myself I'd do anything that made it easy and helped ensure a successful outcome.
After you get the rating you can explore other aircraft types and see what you like. I agree that the C-172 or the Warrior would not be high choices if I was taking the fam somewhere, but that is not the point of this exercise. If the 172 is legal for IFR training flights run with that.
Let us know when you get the ticket. Believe me you will have earned some attaboys.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
Pilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3117 posts, RR: 11 Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1946 times:
Would that C-172 even get off the ground? It would have to be close to max gross if not over. You wouldn't be able to carry much payload and you'd still only do about 110kts with all those extra goodies hanging on the wings and airframe. And the damn thing would probably be in excess of $200 per hour. That's bonanza country there. (I know, it's all in good fun)
My point about the location and operation of features was one of personal experience. After I got my PPL, I got checked out in a 172 and it took me a few hours to get comfortable in it. I had done all my training up until then in a Tampico. It also took a little getting used to the PA44. This was complicated by the faster speeds of this aircraft and the fact that I had no complex time. I felt behind the plane a bunch in the first few hours, that's where a good instructor comes in. I also feel that I should defend my point about them not being a good aircraft for IMC. You don't have the equipment to blast off from an airport into known icing, thunderstorms, or with the ceilings at or below minimums. But, getting up into the clouds is no problem with any single as long as you know your limits and have lots of ways out if the situation turns sticky. I have plenty of actual in TB-9s and C-172s and I'm still here to speak about it today so I'd say they pass the test.
You're learning a lot of new stuff with the instrument rating and it's really easy to get in over your head. If you only have a couple hours in the aircraft, you may not be up to speed on the procedures and out of habit may revert back to what you know best, the aircraft you have more time in. This could be dangerous. 172s and Warriors around here are about the same price and the aircraft have similiar performance numbers. I'd still say stick with what you know and maybe switch to the warrior when building time by doing some cross countries for your commercial.
As SlamClick said, this is the tough one. But's it's also the most rewarding. I don't think there's anything cooler than breaking out on top of the clouds on a moon lit night