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What Is This For (On The Bae 146)  
User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6529 times:

Hello together.

Can anyone explane the purpose of this opened part of the Bae 146, and is this usual?




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User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6498 times:

speed brake to slow the puppy down...
safe



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User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5950 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6495 times:
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That is the air brake on the 146. It used on a normal basis.

User currently offlineA3204eva From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1060 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6472 times:

This is deployed before the wing speed brakes.

A320



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User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6445 times:

Vents the cabin in the case of a stinky passenger.


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User currently offlineOV735 From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 920 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6434 times:

Not many jetliners have such devices. I know that the Fokker F.28 had it, whether the F70 and F100 did also, I'm not sure.

User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6329 times:

Oh thanks . I just couldnt figure it out

DeltaWings



Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17173 posts, RR: 66
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6224 times:

The advantage of this type of airbrake is that it can be deployed in flight regardless of flap position. Most wing mounted spoilers have restrictions in this regard.

Many Avro/BAe-146s fly into airports with steep glideslopes and short runways. You often see it deployed all the way down.


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User currently offlineQantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 6205 times:

Also keep in mind that when deployed, normal wing-mounted spoilers increase the stall speed of aircraft by reducing the wing's maximum coefficient of lift Clmax -- something you don't really want just prior to landing. Being mounted on the aft fuselage rather than the wings, the BAe 146's style of speedbrake slows the plane effectively and without stall speed side-effects.

Cheers,
QantasA332


User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17173 posts, RR: 66
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6193 times:

And that's why wing mounted spoilers are sometimes referred to as "lift dumpers".

This is also the reason they are immediately deployed on touchdown, in order to ensure that the plane "sticks". The (wing mounted) spoilers deploy (in general automatically) when the shocks are compressed with a certain force, and the wings lose much of their lift, "letting go" of the plane.


EDIT: OV735, the F70/100 is also equipped with an ass mounted airbrake.

[Edited 2004-08-16 03:10:51]

[Edited 2004-08-16 03:12:09]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineLearpilot From United States of America, joined May 2001, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6151 times:

Hopefully there's an AVRO driver around here to answer this. I've always wondered why you guys fly final with this open. Is it because you would really have to unspool the engines to come down if it wasn't open?


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User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17173 posts, RR: 66
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6147 times:

They like to wear out the seatbelts  Big grin


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6094 times:

Hopefully there's an AVRO driver around here to answer this. I've always wondered why you guys fly final with this open. Is it because you would really have to unspool the engines to come down if it wasn't open?

Or perhaps rather since you’d have to wait for the engines to spool up from a lower RPM in case you decide that you really want to go around the airport once more before landing... compare with how they’re often used in jet fighters with engines which are slow to accelerate from low RPMs.

Regards,
Fred



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User currently offlineMusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 872 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4942 times:

Good Day All.

Fred T's explanation is valid, but more of a fringe benefit than standard policy, because being such low mass engines, they spool up from idle very quickly.

If I remember correctly (manuals in the attic now) the manufacturer's SOP was to deploy the tail brake at 100 feet on approach. This procedure was designed to wash off 8 knots by the time touchdown arrived. Without the brake (e.g. when the auto-deploy was u/s [very rare] and I forgot) it was quite slippery and didn't want to land.

Procedure was to pull the speed brake lever (to the left of the thrust levers) to the flight detent at 100 feet. The brake had a maximum rate of extention/retraction so even if you whipped the lever back, the brake moved at a civilised rate. This also armed the spoilers, which deployed on touchdown. As a back-up, we pulled the lever through to the ground detent on landing, in case the auto spoiler deploy failed.

On a steep approach (London City for example) I seem to recall the speed brake was out all the way down, and Fred T's comment becomes more relevant as the idle RPM necessary to keep the speed down would cause a slight delay to spool up in the Go Around.

Regards - musang


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