Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
(SNA)Orange County  
User currently offlineCmsgop From United States of America, joined May 2000, 137 posts, RR: 0
Posted (14 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 2485 times:

Now this is one of those FAA type airports where you climb to 1000'ft and throttle back to reduce the noise,But coming back from my wedding going home to Seattle we did something different,we climbed to 1000' and made a hard left going over back bay is this something new?...Thanks

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3465 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (14 years 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 2218 times:

Not "new" but unusual. ATC can instruct deviation to published departures and sometimes will especially to avoid traffic they are not communicating with.


*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineCmsgop From United States of America, joined May 2000, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (14 years 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 2210 times:

Thank You!!!!!....I kind of liked it from the norm!..BTW it was an American Airlines Flight AAR90..:*)

User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3465 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (14 years 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Not me.  


*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineSJC-Alien From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (14 years 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 2183 times:

Ha Ha Ha..
good one liner.....


User currently offlineCmsgop From United States of America, joined May 2000, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (14 years 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 2171 times:

Is it true that Flight Crews hate this kind of T.O.?

User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3465 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (14 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2161 times:

>Is it true that Flight Crews hate this kind of T.O.?

What "kind of T.O." are you refering to? SNA departures are in many ways the easiest takeoff/departures I've flown.




*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineCmsgop From United States of America, joined May 2000, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (14 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2157 times:

What "kind of T.O." are you refering to? SNA departures are in many ways the easiest takeoff/departures I've flown. ...............I have seen shows because Regan National and Orange County have the same T.O. FULL BRAKES,ENGINES FULL THROTTLE,CLIMB TO 1000',THROTTLE BACK, LEVEL AND THEN CLIMB TO 10,000'....some flight crews seem to think this can be dangerous,just to reduce the noise level!

User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3465 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (14 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2167 times:

>I have seen shows because Regan National and Orange County have the same
>T.O. FULL BRAKES,ENGINES FULL THROTTLE,CLIMB TO 1000',THROTTLE BACK,
>LEVEL AND THEN CLIMB TO 10,000'....

SNA southbound departures are very simple and therefore very easy to perform:
1. line-up on runway.
2. hold brakes.
3. spool engines to mid-range power
(so they don't spool up unevenly for directional control)
4. release brakes.
5. apply takeoff power.
6. rotate as normal.
7. maintain initial climb speed to 800 feet.
8. set reduced power (noise abatement climb).
9. WAIT-you do nothing else but fly an airspeed and direction until above 3,000 feet (raise flaps) and 5 miles (add power if desired) from airport.

Numbers 1-6 are done at any airport. The order may change slightly depending on if you are doing a "rolling takeoff" or not.
Number 7 is only slightly different than AA standard procedure of maintaining initial climb speed to 1,000 feet AGL (600' used to be SOP until a couple of years ago).
Number 8 is different only in the power setting used. SNA departures use significantly less power than a "normal" departure, but the actions in the cockpit are the same.
Number 9 is where the differences are. In a "normal" departure power reduction, configuration changes and heading changes occur nearly simultaneously. In an SNA departure these are all spread out by a significant amount. Set the power and WAIT for 1 mile point (5-10 seconds); change heading 19 degrees left and WAIT
for 3,000' (40-60 seconds); raise flaps/slats and WAIT for 5 mile point (20-30 seconds); set climb power (if desired).

On the B757 you command the pilot not flying to do two things: "VNAV" (at 800') and "LNAV" (at 1 mile). On the MD90 you command the pilot not flying to do two things: "EPR Select" (at 800') and "NAV" (at 1 mile). All very simple and so spread out time-wise it is that much easier to do correctly.  

>some flight crews seem to think this can be dangerous,just to reduce the noise level!

I've watched crews brief SNA departures for more than 30 minutes! Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill!   As to being dangerous, it is less dangerous than "normal" departure since everything is spread out time-wise and IF anything goes wrong, you disregard the noise procedures entirely. i.e. if an engine fails during takeoff and I continue takeoff, I will climb straight ahead to 650'AGL, level off, raise flaps, then continue climb all while maintaining max power! 650' at max power over the noise monitors is gonna bust the limits big time.   But heck, there are no obstructions and LGB is an easy right turn to land.  

That's not to say SNA departures do not require precision flying to maintain below prescribed noise limits, they do. But they are neither dangerous nor difficult. Sadly, they do "read" in the Jepp pages 100 times worse than they "feel" in the aircraft and that has a lot of pilots very concerned about "safety."  

FWIW, all my SNA takeoffs last week were rolling takeoffs. Much more "kick-in-the-pants" than holding the brakes while increasing power. At least on the MD90.   Opposite is true for B757.  




*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineCmsgop From United States of America, joined May 2000, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (14 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Thank You AAR90,that was very nice of you to respond in detail,very informative!!!

User currently offlineKALB From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 573 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

I can't wait to fly in and out of SNA. Maybe I should try it on my FS2000 with the 737-400.

User currently offlineCmsgop From United States of America, joined May 2000, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (14 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

I wish they made it for MAC..kalb,or do they, its been so long since I have checked.

User currently offlineKALB From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 573 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (14 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2050 times:

I don't think there is a MAC version of FS2000.

Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic (SNA)Orange County
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Odd LOC Antenna At SNA posted Fri Jul 8 2005 00:19:38 by Vikkyvik
SNA Take Offs posted Mon May 17 2004 13:35:57 by Itsjustme
Hard Landing At SNA posted Thu Oct 30 2003 06:29:53 by FlyLAX
How Is There ANY Margin For Error At Sna? posted Sat Sep 7 2002 17:21:54 by John
Question About Orange Hotspots On Engine Cowling posted Sat Jul 27 2002 08:43:03 by Standby87
SNA Vs. BUR; Which Is Tougher To Fly? posted Sun Jul 21 2002 21:47:24 by Wilax
Little Orange Balls posted Thu May 30 2002 19:51:02 by 747Teach
Orange Paint On TE. posted Sat Nov 17 2001 04:52:07 by HAWK21M
The Deal W/ Laurinburg/Maxton County, N. Carolina? posted Tue Aug 7 2001 06:17:58 by Mcomess
SNA Ops posted Sat Jun 30 2001 07:48:07 by Modesto2

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format