777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps — Tech Ops Forum

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777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps

Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15868 posts, RR: 66
Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3613 times:

Since the 777 and 330/340 ailerons droop with the flaps (I assume there are other types with this characteristic), doesn't this make them flaperons instead of ailerons?

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo

17 replies: All unread, jump to last

XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3952 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

Not much of an answer, but more of an addition- but the A320's ailerons also droop with the flaps. Smile

Chicks dig winglets.

QantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3557 times:

Yep! Any ailerons that droop uniformly (with a main intent other than roll control) are technically flaperons.

Cheers,
QantasA332

MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13333 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3537 times:

Douglas does it too, on the MD-11, but you can only move them down (controlled by the FCCs)only if there is weight on the wheels and spoilers are down. e.g. the plane is in take off configuration for a little extra lift.

Jan

Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15868 posts, RR: 66
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3533 times:

Ok good info. Just to continue in this vein, I guess Concorde had flapevons (sic?) since the outboard surfaces were flaps, ailerons and elevators.

Some military jets have elevons (elevators+ailerons). Does any commercial jet have elevons?

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo

SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3294 times:

The DHC-2 Beaver had flaperons.

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Photo © Marek Wozniak

It was to assist with the STOL performance just like it is on heavy jetliners. Only on jetliners STOL means you can land on a ten thousand foot runway instead of needing twenty thousand.

Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.

ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3222 times:

Concorde had flapevons (sic?) since the outboard surfaces were flaps, ailerons and elevators.

flaps... on Concorde?

Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15868 posts, RR: 66
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3216 times:

Ah, no flaps on Concorde. I guess it depended entirely on angle of attach and thus had elevons.

In fact, now that I check (bad me for not doing this earlier) this drawing http://www.concordesst.com/inside/8.html has lables for "elevon" (88) on the outboard surfaces while the inboard surface is labeled "elevator" (77).

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo

Areopagus From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3140 times:

on the MD-11, but you can only move them down (controlled by the FCCs)only if there is weight on the wheels and spoilers are down. e.g. the plane is in take off configuration for a little extra lift.

As soon as the gear leaves the ground you lose some lift? What kind of sense does that make?

DAL7e7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 357 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

Areopagus:
I think he means you can only move the handle down when there is weight on the landing gear.

I think that the 330/340 need them for places like SXM, where they could really use it. Also, does that come standard, or is it an option?

Trey from TVI.

DAL7e7 is wondering... Do pilots take crash courses?

S.p.a.s. From Liechtenstein, joined Mar 2001, 950 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2855 times:

From what I understand, the deflected ailerons (name givem by McDD to them) only work for take-offs not landings.

IIRC from my MD11 flight dispatch days, this system increased max take-off weight in 3 tons. Or putting it on a reversed order, I had to deduct 3 tons from the mtow given by my runway analysis charts, if it was inop.

"ad astra per aspera"

Prebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6016 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

DAL7e7: I think that the 330/340 need them for places like SXM, where they could really use it. Also, does that come standard, or is it an option?

All Airbus FBW planes have aileron droop - that means all except A300/310.

It is simply a function in the control software - as far as I know they always droop when ordinary flaps are lowered beyond a certain point.

Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm

Francoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3195 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

A bit off topic, but I noticed on many Airbuses, especially the A320 family, that the rudder is moved to its stop by the wind....

Isn't there any kind of gust lock device on those a/c?

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...

Mr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2609 times:

It happens to other Airbuses and Boeings as well. I think basically the control surfaces are powered by hydraulics and once they're turned off there's no force in positioning the control surfaces. And the A320s (as well as the B777s) have some pretty light rudders so it just deflects with the wind.

Boeing747 万岁!

Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 20845 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2591 times:

It has been mentioned in a parallel thread that large jets usually don´t have gust locks for their rudders, but they have dampers to prevent damage when hitting the stops.

Bahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1727 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2550 times:

As soon as the gear leaves the ground you lose some lift? What kind of sense does that make?

It does make perfect sense. The airplane loses some lift as it gets away from the ground due to the reduction in ground effect. You don't notice that because increased speeds and the thrust makes up for it..

Earthbound misfit I

310_engineer From Belgium, joined Dec 2000, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

All Airbus FBW planes have aileron droop - that means all except A300/310

FYI: A310/A300-600 do have a 10° aileron droop.They droop when the Slat/Flap lever move out of the 0° detent. This is from the moment you select slats. Actually the droop command comes from the Kreuger selector valve.
Another info: the A310 was the first commercial aircraft to have FBW systems installed.