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777 And 330/340 Ailerons Drooping With Flaps  
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17326 posts, RR: 66
Posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

Since the 777 and 330/340 ailerons droop with the flaps (I assume there are other types with this characteristic), doesn't this make them flaperons instead of ailerons?


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4273 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5088 times:

Not much of an answer, but more of an addition- but the A320's ailerons also droop with the flaps.  Smile


Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineQantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5072 times:

Yep! Any ailerons that droop uniformly (with a main intent other than roll control) are technically flaperons.

Cheers,
QantasA332


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14529 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5052 times:

Douglas does it too, on the MD-11, but you can only move them down (controlled by the FCCs)only if there is weight on the wheels and spoilers are down. e.g. the plane is in take off configuration for a little extra lift.

Jan



Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17326 posts, RR: 66
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

Ok good info. Just to continue in this vein, I guess Concorde had flapevons (sic?) since the outboard surfaces were flaps, ailerons and elevators.

Some military jets have elevons (elevators+ailerons). Does any commercial jet have elevons?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 66
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

The DHC-2 Beaver had flaperons.

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It was to assist with the STOL performance just like it is on heavy jetliners. Only on jetliners STOL means you can land on a ten thousand foot runway instead of needing twenty thousand.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4737 times:

Concorde had flapevons (sic?) since the outboard surfaces were flaps, ailerons and elevators.

flaps... on Concorde?


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17326 posts, RR: 66
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4731 times:

Ah, no flaps on Concorde. I guess it depended entirely on angle of attach and thus had elevons.

In fact, now that I check (bad me for not doing this earlier) this drawing http://www.concordesst.com/inside/8.html has lables for "elevon" (88) on the outboard surfaces while the inboard surface is labeled "elevator" (77).



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAreopagus From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1377 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4655 times:

on the MD-11, but you can only move them down (controlled by the FCCs)only if there is weight on the wheels and spoilers are down. e.g. the plane is in take off configuration for a little extra lift.

As soon as the gear leaves the ground you lose some lift? What kind of sense does that make?



User currently offlineDAL7e7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 357 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

Areopagus:
I think he means you can only move the handle down when there is weight on the landing gear.

I think that the 330/340 need them for places like SXM, where they could really use it. Also, does that come standard, or is it an option?

Trey from TVI.



DAL7e7 is wondering... Do pilots take crash courses?
User currently offlineS.p.a.s. From Liechtenstein, joined Mar 2001, 978 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4370 times:

From what I understand, the deflected ailerons (name givem by McDD to them) only work for take-offs not landings.

IIRC from my MD11 flight dispatch days, this system increased max take-off weight in 3 tons. Or putting it on a reversed order, I had to deduct 3 tons from the mtow given by my runway analysis charts, if it was inop.




"ad astra per aspera"
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6763 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4233 times:

DAL7e7: I think that the 330/340 need them for places like SXM, where they could really use it. Also, does that come standard, or is it an option?

All Airbus FBW planes have aileron droop - that means all except A300/310.

It is simply a function in the control software - as far as I know they always droop when ordinary flaps are lowered beyond a certain point.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 4068 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 4174 times:

A bit off topic, but I noticed on many Airbuses, especially the A320 family, that the rudder is moved to its stop by the wind....

Isn't there any kind of gust lock device on those a/c?



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

It happens to other Airbuses and Boeings as well. I think basically the control surfaces are powered by hydraulics and once they're turned off there's no force in positioning the control surfaces. And the A320s (as well as the B777s) have some pretty light rudders so it just deflects with the wind.


Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21592 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 4106 times:

It has been mentioned in a parallel thread that large jets usually don´t have gust locks for their rudders, but they have dampers to prevent damage when hitting the stops.

User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1914 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4065 times:

As soon as the gear leaves the ground you lose some lift? What kind of sense does that make?


It does make perfect sense. The airplane loses some lift as it gets away from the ground due to the reduction in ground effect. You don't notice that because increased speeds and the thrust makes up for it..



Earthbound misfit I
User currently offline310_engineer From Belgium, joined Dec 2000, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4045 times:

All Airbus FBW planes have aileron droop - that means all except A300/310

FYI: A310/A300-600 do have a 10° aileron droop.They droop when the Slat/Flap lever move out of the 0° detent. This is from the moment you select slats. Actually the droop command comes from the Kreuger selector valve.
Another info: the A310 was the first commercial aircraft to have FBW systems installed.


User currently offlineNz1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2288 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4010 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

The 767 also has drooping ailerons with flap extension.

NZ1


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