Bahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1731 posts, RR: 11 Posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3942 times:
I am doing some consulting on the side for an upstart charter airline. They are going back and forth between B757 and A320 and would like some operational data to do some analysis. I am leaning towards B757 since the lease rates are down compared to what it was, but any technical and operational economics information would help.
I was planning to use Conklin & deDecker's info, but they don't have the data for A320 family.
Crosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2592 posts, RR: 58 Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3849 times:
I'm afraid I can't provide any data - because it's classed as commercially sensitive...
Any cost analysis between the two types is very operator specific - and all data produced by an airline would be uniqe to them; their airframe/engine combination, variants, route network, lease rates, crew/maintenance overheads, fuel costs, aircraft age, even the geographic region they operate in - for example I believe Nav charges in Europe are more penalising for larger aircraft than in North America.
Manufacturers/leasing companies can usually assist in providing meaningful data to potential customers - failing that an official approach to a carrier operating the types you're interested in, preferably one who wouldn't regard your proposal as competition!
Bahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1731 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3842 times:
thank you for the information. The A.net data is nice to chat over a Heineken, but is not so accurate for planning operations. I am sure I can get some data from some N. American operators on A320, as the airline that I am consulting for is in Turkey.
Crosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2592 posts, RR: 58 Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3834 times:
The only thing I'd say - irrespective of any other issues - is that 757 availability is becoming a problem, particularly Rolls-Royce powered aircraft.
Since the ex-Iberia fleet seems to has been taken up by Varig, with the exception of a few PW powered examples, virtually all the used 757s available on the market are 1980s vintage and approaching their 20th birthday, which may or may not be an issue.
Given the current production rate of the A320, there will be plentiful supply of aircraft on the used market for years to come.
Having said that it would be nice to see another 757 operator, in my opinion it's one of the most versatile aircaft out there, and is currently unmatched on the marketplace with no like-for-like replacement in sight. It's undoubtedly one of the reasons why the used 757 market has seen so much activity in the last 12-18 months.
QantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 34 Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3824 times:
According to ICAO, average total operating costs (per block hour) for the A320 and 752 are US$2273 and US$2685, respectively. Within that, their fuel consumptions (again, per block hour) are 886 gallons (A320) versus 900 gallons (757). As Crosswind mentioned, however, the exact costs are very operator-specific and the above figures are just averages.
Bahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1731 posts, RR: 11 Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3808 times:
I agree with you on the availability of 752s. I am sure no one wants to get rid of them because they are so versatile. I didn't know ex-Iberia ones are taken up by Varig, they look still available in Speednews. You are also correct about the early 757s that are getting a lot of hours in them, such as ex Condor, LTU and Eastern birds.
For the things that this new operator wants to do, 757 will be a perfect fit. (I won't get into too much details though)
Wing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1552 posts, RR: 24 Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3761 times:
If you take a general look at the fleets of the exsisting fleets of the charter airlines in Turkey you'll see there is an uprising trend around to switch A-320 family.Ofcourse the target market of the airline you're consulting is important for the aircraft chooice.Will they only carry tourists and Turkish workers from Europe or are they planning to hop into domestic business too which had an giant jumpstart since the last year.
As I can recall only two operators were using 757s and one of them was complaing about whatever they do they cant reach the economy of 737-800 and were leasing our planes instead of 757 and they still could make profit(and so did my ex-company)
Both Turkish airlines and Onurair are the biggest A320 family operators,they have technical backround.They can provide flight training also.I guess they should send pilots abroad to train pilots and techicians(which wil cost a lot) for 757 ,instead of using the capabilities of the existing Turkish carriers which will be a cheaper option.
I am assuming your clients will not invest millions of dollars in advance to stock spare parts(like most of the charters do,they buy it when they need but that costs delays even leasing aircraft from another airline to save the day) 757 will take alot longer than A320 which you can quickly solve the problem from THY or OnurAir stocks on the opposite side of the ramp.For 757 you'll have wait until it will be send to you by the first available plane(which you have to pay for it too)
On the otherhand 757 has very powerfull engines which will be very useful for operating to shortest and less used airfields.(which has cheaper landing fees)Especially when carrying Turkish workers in and out from Turkey they carry alot of heavy luggages(present for the family and Turkish food on the way back as you can guess )757 will be less limited(or leave less baggages behind) which will cost you extra money to shipped behind.
Althoug I dont know what category both these aircraft fell into but overflying and landing fees are also vary from type to type too.So you should consider this also.
There are a lot of variables you have to work very hard to find out.This is a very big decision you all have to make.Think a lot before hand,so we(pilots) dont have to think about how we can be paid if the company is not profitting. Good Luck. WING
Ts-ior From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3311 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3715 times:
As long as the airline will operate from Turkey, i think that having A32S is better than having 757s. As WING explained,being in Turkey means near Airbus maintenance facilities. Turkish Airlines for example send its Airbuses,not all, to EADS SOGERMA facilities in Monastir,Tunisia where they can have up to D-checks !!! Toulouse is also not far from AYT,BJV,...
If the airline will concentrate on charters to/from Germany, then the A320 will be the best equipment.
Bahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1731 posts, RR: 11 Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3700 times:
Wing and Ts,
I cannot speak more about the plans, but looks like there is enough people carrying pax from Germany to Turkey.. 757 has longer legs than 320 , that's for sure. It is such as shame that Airbus never developed a product to replace 757 in terms of range and the pax capacity.