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Topic: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Abrelosojos
Posted 2008-08-06 11:22:39 and read 28640 times.

Feedback always appreciated.

Trip Report: 052
Flight Category: J-IMR (See Report End)
Date: 10 Jun-08
SDT/SAT/Delay: 1155/1630/03:35 hrs
Flight: Swiss LX 97, 1626 miles
Routing: SCL-GRU
Aircraft: 343
Seat: Business, 4K

I > Background:

I had been on a tough away assignment for 3 months and earned a well deserved break by the time the engagement was over and June had rolled in. Instead of going back to Caracas directly, I decided to visit a few random places I had not been to in a while. After a trip to Chile, I decided to visit some friends in one of my favorite cities … Barcelona. I had a few choices from Santiago, but decided to fly via GRU and have a café with my best friend Gustavo.

A quick search on A.Net tells me that this is the first report on Swiss J class on the 5th freedom SCL-GRU flight.

II > Pre-Flight:

a) Before Airport:
Just in case there are people who read A.Net and do not know about Swiss International Airlines. It is the main carrier out of Switzerland and serves the world from its Zurich hub. It was formed in 2001 after the bankruptcy of Swissair and is now a subsidiary of Lufthansa. Out of its efficient Zurich hub, Swiss flies around the globe including a daily service to Santiago via Sao Paulo.

Ticketing for the flight was done on the extremely well designed and easy to use Swiss website at www.swiss.com. While you are able to view your booking later and do modifications, I was not pleased that seat selections cannot be done online. However, I was able to do the same calling their number in Santiago.

b) At Airport:
Unlike my previous visit to SCL which turned out to be full of drama, this was a relatively quiet visit with a smooth check-in at the specially designated J class counter. What I found interesting is that there was a separate counter for F class which could be used by Star Gold Members. Now, why allow Star Golds? Besides, are not most J class passengers Star Gold anyways? Anyways, I digress. So in a matter of minutes, I had my boarding pass and lounge invitation (what a waste of paper) and was en-route through a quick security and immigration to the boarding gates.

Since I had around 30 minutes to spare, I walked all the way to the end of the terminal to the American Airlines Admirals Club which is used by LX. It is a small rather dingy lounge (with a surly German speaking manager), but had basic food and beverages and computer terminals with internet access. After a quick email check and some café, final boarding for the Swiss flight was called and I made my way to the gate.

By the time I arrived, most of the flight had boarded and I made my way to my seat 4K. Upon entering the cabin, I felt very much part of the clean IKEA look that you find at Scandinavian airports … faux wood and overall extremely minimalist. I was soon greeted by the lead flight attendant who took my jacket away and offered me a choice of drink … and I chose champagne.

A gentleman from Holland came by and sat in seat 4A … apparently, he was a Y ticketed passenger and wanted to take pictures of the Andes, and the view was better from the J cabin. The crew politely asked him to leave. After several requests, he got very agitated and started hurling abuses at the Swiss crew and saying how “this would never happen at KLM” and that the Swiss crew was “German Nazis”! At this point, I had enough and went to the crew standing around him and said that if he was not off-loaded, I was calling my ministry contacts in Chile to have him put behind bars. Jaja. Of course, the entire thing was a lie. The man muttered something in Dutch and went back to the Y cabin. The crew and I shared a joke about it later … but seriously, some people!

J class load was a dismal 10%. F class load was 0%, and Y was 40%.

Airport - External:

(Santiago Airport)


Check-in:



Airport - Internal:

(Pre-Security)


(RG Ad … wonder how long the Varig name will survive)


(Post-Security)


Scenes of the tarmac:

NONE

Lounge

(Invitation)


(AA Admirals Club)






Boarding:

(Boarding called)


III> In-Flight:

a) Service Schedule + Impressions:
Drink service while on ground along with newspaper trolley. Cold towels after an extremely slow 343 take-off was followed immediately with lunch. Duty free sales post lunch. Cold towels again at landing.

b) Aircraft + Seats:
I am not usually a fan of euro-white liveries, but I find the Swiss 343 to be extremely graceful looking. Part of it is because the 343 is a very elegant aircraft probably. Inside, the 343 was kept spotless by LX … though, some amenities in the bathroom would have been good … especially with the lack of any kit being distributed. However, I HATE the J class seats offered by LX. While they are comfortable to sit on, the bizarre recline position made sleeping very uncomfortable. The many folds and breaks on the seat ensures that I toss and turn and fail to capture some real sleep. Seriously, the weird fold points makes the body cringe at several points because the "bed" has several uneven fold points. One more thing I hated about the seat was the weird cut-out for the audio-video controls which was uncomfortable as you put your hands on the arm-rest. The only saving grace was that unlike some angular flat arrangements (example: AF), I found the overall room to be much more satisfactory. I could be in several recline modes without having the need to cramp and position my leg in some awkward manner.

Aircraft:

(Beautiful 343 in LX livery – taken upon arrival @ GRU)




Views from Aircraft:

(LAN 763 next to us @ SCL)


(CM 738 for the long trek to PTY)


(Slow liftoff)


(Beautiful Andes + Beautiful and inefficient 343)


General Seat Views + Seat Legroom



(The cutout for controls make it very uncomfortable)


Seat Recline + Angle View:





Cabin:

(The more private mini-cabin in J)




(Bathroom without amenities)


c) Meal + Beverage:

On the ground, the choice of drinks were orange juice, water, and “champagne” (Brut Mosaïque). Lunch included a choice of beef or pasta and I chose the later. While not the best pasta I have ever had, it was decent and did the purpose of filling me up quickly. I wonder if the catering gets better as the flight progresses as the J class meal ex-SCL was nothing to write home about. Beverage selection was pretty average during the flight as well – you could see the limited choices from the picture of the menu.

(Menu)












(Champagne to kick if off while on ground)


(Lunch)


(Tea)


(Chocolate – a very LX touch)


d) Inflight Entertainment:

Probably one of my biggest grievances with Swiss was the awfully antiquated IFE. Ok, it was not as bad as Air France with its old-school non AVOD, but it was pretty poor in terms of choices (extremely limited and poor selection of movies – some movies that you wanted to see were limited to certain flights only), headphones (God, seriously, they should look at Y headphones of some airlines), and screen. Thankfully, Swiss comes with a decent in-flight magazine and a very cool Business class magazine.

(Poor IFE screen and setup)


(Moving map with our route)


(Options and weak headphones)


(Nose camera)






(“In-flight magazines”, Boarding Passes, etc.)


e) Crew:

Probably the single biggest redeeming point for this particular Swiss flight was its crew members. While the entire crew was above satisfactory, I had the pleasure of a wonderful purser who clearly enjoyed her job and was well versed in the history of Swiss and the airline industry. She would come and check on me several times (though, given loads, she was probably bored) and chatted with me about her career with Swissair and Swiss. She provided some interesting and bizarre insights – interesting included that the loads for both F and J ex-GRU was 100%. Interesting included how she felt Lufthansa considers Swiss poorly and has failed to properly invest in the company, and that is a feeling many in LX feel. Bizarre included that LX had initially apparently installed touch-screen IFE’s (when I was whining about the poor IFE), but they were taken out of service as it was found that these touch screen IFE’s had caused the M11 crash out of JFK (to GVA).

IV> Post-Flight:

As much as I love Sao Paulo and the chance to see Gustavo, GRU leaves much to be desired. Immigration took over an hour thanks to being in line after the SAA flight ex-JNB. Having said that, the immigration woman was charming and I was happy to be in the middle of chaotic Sao Paulo after the sterility of Santiago.

(Video telling us of landing procedures @ GRU. I thought it was very useful.)


(I love this view from GRU where all the aircraft are stored like a junkyard)


(Diversity of carriers)


(GRU – Varig Log)


(Ocean Air and others)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/041.jpg

(GRU Terminal)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/042.jpg

(Arrivals @ GRU)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/043.jpg

(Arrival board)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/044.jpg

V> Impressions + Scores:

Unfortunately, Swiss J class is not what it used to be. It’s seats are antiquated (though, being updated in 2009), and the IFE program needs a much thorough overhaul. Additionally, catering was weak as well and the lack of amenities (either distributed or in the lavs) was noteworthy. Particularly interesting as amenity kits were distributed when I did this routing earlier in the year. What Swiss does well is running a safe and reliable schedule that gets you from point A to B, sometimes via a super efficient hub @ ZRH. Since most European carriers basically are good at this (except awful AF @ CDG), what makes Swiss unique and one of the better carriers in Europe is an extremely warm cabin crew who go beyond their call to make you feel good. Swiss sort of reminds me of KLM. Both airlines with average J products, owned by larger airlines, who crew outperforms against odds. While Swiss is definitely not a world benchmark airline anymore, it still is probably one of the best carriers out of Europe. Definitely would fly them again … especially if the choice involved choosing over another Euro zone carrier.

1.0 > RESERVATION: 8.0
2.0 > CHECK-IN: 7.0
0.5 > LOUNGE: 7.0
0.5 > BOARDING: 8.0
2.0 > SEAT: 5.5
0.5 > AIRCRAFT OVERALL AMBIENCE: 7.5
1.0 > IFE: 6.0
2.0 > CREW: 8.5
2.0 > FOOD: 6.5
0.5 > BEVERAGES: 7.5
0.5 > A.KITS + OTHER FREEBIES: 5.0
0.5 > DISEMBARKATION: 9.0
1.0 > ON-TIME RECORD: 9.0
WEIGHTED OVERALL IMPRESSION (WOI): 7.14
(Pre-flight WOI of all reviews: 6.42)
* Weighted Overall Impression (WOI) aligns scores with what matters most. Weights are indicated alongside each category.
(Scores are based on comparison with other airlines in THAT class of service – No comparison of Y vs. F for example)

VI> Other Trip Reports:

PREMIUM:
8.61: Air Canada (49): YYZ-SCL: 06/2008
8.11: Aeroflot (33): MOW-DEL: 09/2007
8.04: Korean Air (40): NRT-ICN: 10/2007
8.02: Delta Airlines (24): JFK-CDG: 08/2007
7.82: Singapore Airlines (06): EWR-SIN: 09/2006
7.14: Swiss (52): SCL-GRU: 06/2008
6.93: Delta Airlines (18): SEA-JFK: 11/2006
6.81: Air Canada (17): ICN-YYZ: 10/2006
6.70: KLM (32): EBB-AMS: 08/2007
6.25: Korean Air (45): NAN-ICN: 10/2007
5.75: Singapore Airlines (16): CCU-SIN: 10/2006
5.64: NorthWest (46): ICN-NRT-SEA: 10/2007
4.42: Air France: CDG-JNB (25): 08/2007

ECONOMY: Long + Medium:
9.26: Air India (48): JFK-DEL: 02/2008
7.38: Avianca (01): BOG-LIM: 07/2006
6.26: Jet Blue (21): CUN-JFK: 02/2007
6.06: Air Canada (04): YYZ-YVR: 09/2006
5.89: USA 3000 (19): PUJ-BDL: 01/2007
5.79: Air New Zealand (42): RAR-NAN: 10/2007
5.46: TAP Air Portugal (23): OSL-LIS: 05/2007

ECONOMY: Short
8.56: Paramount Airways (38): BLR-MAA: 09/2007
8.24: Kingfisher (14): IXA-GAU: 10/2006
7.87: Indian (34): BOM-MAA: 09/2007
7.72: Alliance Air (13): CCU-IXA: 10/2006
7.57: Indian Airlines (10): DEL-CCU: 09/2006
7.23: West Jet (03): YYC-YVR: 09/2006
7.15: JetLite (37): BOM-GOI: 09/2007
6.70: Spice Jet (09): CCU-DEL: 09/2006
6.63: Air Fiji (44): NAN-SUV: 10/2007
6.58: Air Tran (02): EWR-MDW: 08/2006
6.44: CO Micronesia (39): ROR-YAP: 10/2007
6.41: Pacific Sun (43): NAN-SUV: 10/2007
6.37: Skybus (47): SWF-CMH: 02/2008
6.33: Kenya Airways (29): NBO-BJM: 08/2007
6.31: Indigo (15): GAU-CCU: 10/2006
6.22: Air Link Swazi (28): MTS-JNB: 08/2007
6.22: Air India (36): HYD-BOM: 09/2007
6.13: Adam Air (07): SIN-CGK: 09/2006
6.13: Air Rarotonga (41): RAR-AIT: 10/2007
6.00: Transairways (27): INH-MPM: 08/2007
5.95: Air Canada (05): ALB-YYZ: 09/2006
5.85: SAS Norge (22): OSL-AES: 05/2007
5.81: LAM Mozambique (26): JNB-MPM: 08/2007
5.69: Air Deccan (12): IXZ-CCU: 10/2006
5.67: Rwanda Air Exp (30): KGL-NBO: 08/2007
5.07: Go Air (35): MAA-HYD: 09/2007
5.00: Sky Airline (51): IQQ-SCL: 06/2008
4.96: Valuair (08): CGK-SIN: 09/2006
4.78: Air Comet Chile (50): SCL-IQQ: 06/2008
4.74: Fly 540 (31): MYD-LAU: 08/2007
4.33: Viva Aerobus (20): ELP-MTY: 02/2007
4.11: Air Sahara (11): CCU-BOM: 09/2006

(Note on Codes: Y – Economy, J – Business, F – First :: I/D – International/Domestic :: SR/MR/LR – Short/Medium/Long Haul)

VII> Other Pictures:

As it has become customary, and by popular demand, here is a collection of pictures from my trip to Chile. Santiago is an OK town … to see the real Chile, go outside it. Most of the pictures are from my favorite town in Chile … beautifully intoxicating Valparaiso.

(Santiago)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/044a.jpg

(Santiago from my hotel room @ San Cristobal Towers – a little too pretentious for my taste)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/044b.jpg

(Sights of Santiago)




(VIVA PROTESTS!)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/047.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/048.jpg



http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/050.jpg

(Beautiful Valpo)


http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/052-1.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/053-1.jpg







(Forget tourist restaurants … go to the Mercado Municipal and have lunch at one of the many local eatiers … my Chilean friends and I went here … and had this man come and sing … one of my local friends has a great voice and joined in a great rendition of the song “Valparaiso”)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/057-1.jpg



http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/059-1.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/060-1.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/061-1.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/062-1.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/063-1.jpg



http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/065-1.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/066-1.jpg

(Iquique town center)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/LX97/067-1.jpg

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Henkybaby
Posted 2008-08-06 11:31:54 and read 28622 times.

Wow! Going to SCL this December and I am already looking forward to taking pictures there! Nice TR, great pics!

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Semsem
Posted 2008-08-06 11:44:17 and read 28604 times.

I fly on LX from GVA to New York in economy at times. My impression is that LH allow LX to operate completely independently. There is no change in the service and the food in Y is just as mediocre now as it was prior to the acquisition. Recently I had to change a ticket and ended up twice with telephone agents in South Africa who knew nothing, did not bother to check regulations and were unhelpful. I had to schlep to the airport to change my reservation.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: DALelite
Posted 2008-08-06 11:48:53 and read 28589 times.

Just another superb TR of yours!!


cheers: DALelite

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Bentley55
Posted 2008-08-06 11:48:34 and read 28591 times.

Excellent TR- Thanks for sharing.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Mk777
Posted 2008-08-06 12:51:54 and read 28473 times.

Hi there,

Thanks for the SCL terminal pictures. Its a rather dull terminal with not much natural light penetrating through.

The LX J class is not all that as seen from your seats and IFE. The food looked decent. I guess on a short flight, they really don't work too hard. Hopefully from GRU to ZRH, its much better service.

I loved the shots at valparaiso and Iquique. Its always a good idea to eat where the locals do, usually then a tourist gets the best food. You really captured the myriad colours while you visited chile.

another good TR.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Super737
Posted 2008-08-06 13:14:06 and read 28432 times.

That was very enjoyable read! Also the dutch guy trying to score an upgrade that way - never heard that one before!!!!

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: SandroZRH
Posted 2008-08-06 14:12:56 and read 28316 times.

Good TR, thanks.

I agree that the seats are nothing to write home about, even less so on the A332s. However, this is subject to change, the same goes for the IFE. Also, the food usually tends to be a lot better ex-ZRH than on the return legs. But then again, SCL-GRU is a rather shortish flight,, which is why you really can't expect a 5 course meal.

The crews, well, what can I say, as good as ever!

And, why would you lable the A343 inefficient? LX seem to be very happy with it, otherwise they hadn't added several A343s to the fleet recently.

Thanks again

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Chepos
Posted 2008-08-06 16:15:49 and read 28142 times.

Buen trabajo!

Great trip report. I guess you had great crews on LX, did they have Portuguesse and Spanish speaking crew members on your flights?
I recently flew LH between FRA and BCN, and very few of the announcements were made in Spanish or Catalan. Only the "Bienvenidos a Barcelona".
Chile looks fantastic, I might stop there on my way to Argentina in September.

Regards,

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: PHLstudent
Posted 2008-08-06 18:18:54 and read 27978 times.

you never cease to produce some of the best trip reports on a.net. This one if no different, although you did not have the best experience on Swiss, I still think it looks better than most. (mainly U.S. carriers)

Always looking forward to future reports...

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Abrelosojos
Posted 2008-08-06 20:20:47 and read 27817 times.



Quoting Semsem (Reply 2):
I fly on LX from GVA to New York in economy at times. My impression is that LH allow LX to operate completely independently. There is no change in the service and the food in Y is just as mediocre now as it was prior to the acquisition. Recently I had to change a ticket and ended up twice with telephone agents in South Africa who knew nothing, did not bother to check regulations and were unhelpful. I had to schlep to the airport to change my reservation.

= Sorry to hear of your experience. As I mentioned, I do think that LX has gone down from the SR days. However, I do think though that while LH ensures independent operations, management oversight is still with "big brother". I find LH service appauling, and see LX having moved a little closer to that direction.

Quoting DALelite (Reply 3):
Just another superb TR of yours!!

= Thank you. BTW, I am in Vaduz for some family events ... perhaps we can coordinate something?

Quoting Bentley55 (Reply 4):
Excellent TR- Thanks for sharing.

= Anytime.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 1):
Wow! Going to SCL this December and I am already looking forward to taking pictures there! Nice TR, great pics!

= Thanks. Make sure you get out of SCL. Chile has a lot to offer.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 5):
The LX J class is not all that as seen from your seats and IFE. The food looked decent. I guess on a short flight, they really don't work too hard. Hopefully from GRU to ZRH, its much better service.



Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 7):
Also, the food usually tends to be a lot better ex-ZRH than on the return legs. But then again, SCL-GRU is a rather shortish flight,, which is why you really can't expect a 5 course meal.

= Well, I will find out for sure as I seem to have MANY LX legs coming up ... let's see ... on J for BOS - ZRH, ZRH - JNB, TLV - ZRH, and ZRH - BOS in the next 2 months.

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 7):
And, why would you lable the A343 inefficient? LX seem to be very happy with it, otherwise they hadn't added several A343s to the fleet recently.

= LX got the 343 in an environment when it was hard to procure a 777. Operationally (dispatch, fuel economics), the 343 is not the best aircraft out there.

Quoting Chepos (Reply 8):
I guess you had great crews on LX, did they have Portuguesse and Spanish speaking crew members on your flights?
I recently flew LH between FRA and BCN, and very few of the announcements were made in Spanish or Catalan. Only the "Bienvenidos a Barcelona".

= Annoucements were made in Spanish and Portuguese.

Quoting Chepos (Reply 8):
Chile looks fantastic, I might stop there on my way to Argentina in September.

= Don't rush it. Argentina is a great country.

Quoting PHLstudent (Reply 9):
you never cease to produce some of the best trip reports on a.net. This one if no different, although you did not have the best experience on Swiss, I still think it looks better than most. (mainly U.S. carriers)

= For sure. As you can see with the scoring, LX is definitely a high middle scoring flight. In the Americas, only my flight with Delta on JFK-CDG was better last year.

Quoting PHLstudent (Reply 9):
Always looking forward to future reports...

= Look out for some of the lesser written about Star partners coming very soon.

Cheers and thanks,
A.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Caspritz78
Posted 2008-08-07 06:08:17 and read 27405 times.

Great report and really great pictures.

About SWISS and LH. I don't have the feeling that LH thinks SWISS is doing poorly. About the SWSS cabin. Major upgrades are coming next year as you already mentioned.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: BA319-131
Posted 2008-08-08 09:52:08 and read 26957 times.

Great report and pictures, especially the 'tourist' pictures as I call them, simply wonderful!

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
I was not pleased that seat selections cannot be done online. However, I was able to do the same calling their number in Santiago.

- I to found this issue, however their call centre was pretty helpfull and answered the phone quickly.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
A gentleman from Holland came by and sat in seat 4A … apparently, he was a Y ticketed passenger and wanted to take pictures of the Andes, and the view was better from the J cabin. The crew politely asked him to leave. After several requests, he got very agitated and started hurling abuses at the Swiss crew and saying how “this would never happen at KLM” and that the Swiss crew was “German Nazis”

- Amazing, never heard anything like it!

Thanks again.

Regards

Mark

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: PlaneHunter
Posted 2008-08-08 10:13:34 and read 26943 times.

Great report, once again with stunning pictures.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
A gentleman from Holland came by and sat in seat 4A … apparently, he was a Y ticketed passenger and wanted to take pictures of the Andes, and the view was better from the J cabin. The crew politely asked him to leave. After several requests, he got very agitated and started hurling abuses at the Swiss crew and saying how “this would never happen at KLM” and that the Swiss crew was “German Nazis”! At this point, I had enough and went to the crew standing around him and said that if he was not off-loaded, I was calling my ministry contacts in Chile to have him put behind bars. Jaja. Of course, the entire thing was a lie. The man muttered something in Dutch and went back to the Y cabin. The crew and I shared a joke about it later … but seriously, some people!

Unbelievable. The addressed crew members should have sued that guy.


PH

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: AlexEU
Posted 2008-08-09 02:38:27 and read 26771 times.

Nice report and great pics !

Why was the load so low? Did you include pax flying to ZRH or did you only include pax flying to GRU? btw, Why does LX flies to Santiago anyway? what's the demand.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: AviationMaster
Posted 2008-08-09 03:36:30 and read 26746 times.

Thanks for yet another impressive report!

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 14):
Why does LX flies to Santiago anyway? what's the demand.

LX took over LH's tag-on flight from GRU. It's better to use this aircraft for this short rotation, than to have it sit around for most of the day at GRU, while waiting for its return flight back to ZRH.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: StevenG
Posted 2008-08-09 15:04:11 and read 26574 times.

Another great TR!

It has been a long time since your last trip reports from Africa or I must have been asleep.

Excellent pictures from SCL and Valparaiso. Still having good memories, although it has been 8 years ago since my visit oever there.

Could you see from which airlines the aircraft were at the 'boneyard' at GRU?
Looks like some former VASP-metal and two 707's?!

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Since most European carriers basically are good at this (except awful AF @ CDG), what makes Swiss unique and one of the better carriers in Europe is an extremely warm cabin crew who go beyond their call to make you feel good. Swiss sort of reminds me of KLM. Both airlines with average J products, owned by larger airlines, who crew outperforms against odds. While Swiss is definitely not a world benchmark airline anymore, it still is probably one of the best carriers out of Europe. Definitely would fly them again %u2026 especially if the choice involved choosing over another Euro zone carrier.

Basically I agree with you. Although I am LH FT most of my flights these days are on LX. Last spring I flew LX C to JNB in the A340 and I was very satisfied with their product. Their seats were no better or worse than other C-class products except the A332. However those last C-class seats are not too bad for daytime flights.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
The crew politely asked him to leave. After several requests, he got very agitated and started hurling abuses at the Swiss crew and saying how “this would never happen at KLM” and that the Swiss crew was “German Nazis”!

I guess there are some airlines and countries where this passenger would have left the aircraft handcuffed.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: LH431
Posted 2008-08-11 16:03:08 and read 26349 times.

Hey!
I enjoyed reading your TR very much, especially because I took the same flight in may.
My day trip to Valpariso was very nice too, but we had a cold, foggy day.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
the sterility of Santiago.

Santiago is the only city in South America I visited so far, so I cannot comment about that  Smile

What I do not understand are your complaints about SWISS IFE. I flew ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU with them and were not able to watch all the movies that they offered and the ones I was interested in.
I fully agree with you about the headphones, they are quite cheap for Biz class. On the other hand: Thai Airways has the same. I have the impression that noise cancelling headphones are the exception in todays C-Class(LH, SQ, NZ have very nice ones btw)
If you want to be sure to have decent ones, the best is to bring your own Bose.

The seats are very uncomfortable for sleeping, although I slept full 8h on the ZRH-GRU run. LH's product is much softer and better for sleeping.

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 7):
But then again, SCL-GRU is a rather shortish flight,, which is why you really can't expect a 5 course meal.

There is even a difference in the menu description. "Gourmet menu" is stated on the top of the page for the long haul flight and "menu" for this short one.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: DALCE
Posted 2008-08-12 00:25:53 and read 26240 times.

great report of a nice flight. It's always nice to read about a tag-on stretch of a int. cont. flight.
Also nice to read another LX report, an airline which is well covered here on the forum.
I also liked the SCL pictures.
Thanks for sharing!

Cheers,
Joost ( D-ALCE )

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Abrelosojos
Posted 2008-08-12 09:04:55 and read 26172 times.



Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 11):
I don't have the feeling that LH thinks SWISS is doing poorly. About the SWSS cabin. Major upgrades are coming next year as you already mentioned.

= LX is financially doing very well and finally being able to carve out a role in the LH system. I am looking forward to the upgrades. IMHO, LX is a much better and more customer friendly airline.

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 12):
especially the 'tourist' pictures as I call them, simply wonderful!



Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 13):
The addressed crew members should have sued that guy.

= Thanks.

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 14):
Why was the load so low? Did you include pax flying to ZRH or did you only include pax flying to GRU? btw, Why does LX flies to Santiago anyway? what's the demand.

= Jaja. Man, how the hell would I have guessed that? I was not conducting an O&D survey  Smile. The load factor represented segment load - ultimate destinations are anyone's guess.

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 15):
It's better to use this aircraft for this short rotation, than to have it sit around for most of the day at GRU, while waiting for its return flight back to ZRH.

= See. I disagree. The economics of the 343 make it have a high BELF. Perhaps there is cargo demand ... or perhaps through traffic to SCL ex-ZRH and behind is very lucrative?

Quoting LH431 (Reply 17):
What I do not understand are your complaints about SWISS IFE. I flew ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU with them and were not able to watch all the movies that they offered and the ones I was interested in.
I fully agree with you about the headphones, they are quite cheap for Biz class. On the other hand: Thai Airways has the same. I have the impression that noise cancelling headphones are the exception in todays C-Class(LH, SQ, NZ have very nice ones btw)
If you want to be sure to have decent ones, the best is to bring your own Bose.

= You and I must have different standards then! Look at their antiquated screens, horrid headphones (and why should I bring my Bose when I paid USD 4,000 for a 3 hour flight), and lack of movie choices. The movies were essentially crappy ... and having been used to SQ, CX, EK, EY, 9W, AI, JL, NH ... it is a VERY limited movie choice.

Quoting LH431 (Reply 17):
The seats are very uncomfortable for sleeping, although I slept full 8h on the ZRH-GRU run. LH's product is much softer and better for sleeping.

= Both are below-average seats. Thankfully, LX's new seats are going to be good.

Quoting LH431 (Reply 17):
There is even a difference in the menu description. "Gourmet menu" is stated on the top of the page for the long haul flight and "menu" for this short one.

= As I mentioned, I have a lot of transcontinental flights coming up on LX. I will do a TR to see how it stacks up.

Cheers,
A.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: LH431
Posted 2008-08-12 12:51:48 and read 26108 times.



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 19):
why should I bring my Bose when I paid USD 4,000 for a 3 hour flight

Did you really paid that??? Wow! I flew ATH -FRA-ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU-FRA-ATH(about 28.500km and more than 24h in the air) for 2500euro. Ticketed D-Class btw.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 19):
Both are below-average seats. Thankfully, LX's new seats are going to be good.

I just watched the virtual presentation of the new LX seats. Very nice! But SCL-GRU wont see these seats before 2011. Other airlines have better seats, fully horizontal. No question! But, does SQ fly to south america? No! Do they fly e.g. FRA-JFK with a full horizontal bed? No!

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 19):
You and I must have different standards then! Look at their antiquated screens, horrid headphones

My experience is limited but the LX screen has the same size like many other carriers, hasn't it?(9").
I was happy with the movie selection keeping me busy all the time. A wide screen laptop with your own DVDs and a bose headphone will give you the same standard on each flight.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Hardiwv
Posted 2008-08-12 13:28:09 and read 26092 times.



Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
A gentleman from Holland came by and sat in seat 4A … apparently, he was a Y ticketed passenger and wanted to take pictures of the Andes, and the view was better from the J cabin. The crew politely asked him to leave. After several requests, he got very agitated and started hurling abuses at the Swiss crew and saying how “this would never happen at KLM” and that the Swiss crew was “German Nazis”!

Well, he certainly has no experience with KLM! And being Dutch he should have just accepted the fact that he tried to travel in J with a Y ticket!  Smile

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Probably one of my biggest grievances with Swiss was the awfully antiquated IFE. Ok, it was not as bad as Air France with its old-school non AVOD

Point for KL, probably the best IFE in the industry.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
interesting included that the loads for both F and J ex-GRU was 100%

GRU is just a cash-machine for airlines...the amount of C and F seat supply in GRU is staggering.

Quoting LH431 (Reply 20):
Other airlines have better seats, fully horizontal. No question! But, does SQ fly to south america? No! Do they fly e.g. FRA-JFK with a full horizontal bed? No!

Well, KE and EK are among the airlines with the best seats in F and C and they both fly to GRU. I would also include AC among the airlines with excellent C seats.

Rgs,

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Abrelosojos
Posted 2008-08-12 16:21:52 and read 26058 times.



Quoting LH431 (Reply 20):
Did you really paid that??? Wow! I flew ATH -FRA-ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU-FRA-ATH(about 28.500km and more than 24h in the air) for 2500euro. Ticketed D-Class btw.

= Ok. Ok. I paid USD 3,096 for the return ticket ... though, to be fair, it was a last minute and ticketed in C class.

Quoting LH431 (Reply 20):
I just watched the virtual presentation of the new LX seats. Very nice! But SCL-GRU wont see these seats before 2011. Other airlines have better seats, fully horizontal. No question! But, does SQ fly to south america? No! Do they fly e.g. FRA-JFK with a full horizontal bed? No!

= I don't understand your point here. Swiss is a global airline and not a two-bit player relegated to low yielding intra-Americas routings. It should be benchmarked against other world players. If you read my trip evaluations, they are based on JUST THAT FLIGHT. Moreover, if you read my SQ reports, you will see that I do not look favorably on their J product either. Having said that, SQ's updated J is MILES ahead of even the refurbished J of LX; moreover, SQ (with a larger fleet) is far more aggressive with their J rollout. FRA-JFK is NOT an important route for SQ ... if it were, it would get the new J. Look at SIN-BOM which gets upgraded 77W service to take a queue on route priorities.

Quoting LH431 (Reply 20):
I was happy with the movie selection keeping me busy all the time. A wide screen laptop with your own DVDs and a bose headphone will give you the same standard on each flight.

= If I did that, I would have no reason to travel J. One of the reasons of flying premium service, is to be wined, dined, and entertained. If I fly Y, I am happy with a simple meal. If LX wants to learn IFE, look at AI's new Y.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21):
And being Dutch he should have just accepted the fact that he tried to travel in J with a Y ticket! Smile

= Ya, that is what I found ironic given I have actually been yelled at by a Dutch guy for jumping the queue at an ATM ... I did not notice him. But you know, obnoxious bigots are the same irrespective of nationality. Though, some countries just have a lot more ... like a large fading European power  Wink.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21):
Point for KL, probably the best IFE in the industry.

= Definitely amongst the leaders within Europe. In the world, top 20.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21):
GRU is just a cash-machine for airlines...the amount of C and F seat supply in GRU is staggering.

= Yup.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21):
Well, KE and EK are among the airlines with the best seats in F and C and they both fly to GRU. I would also include AC among the airlines with excellent C seats.

Rgs,

= A lot of better seats serve GRU. You mentioned KE and EK ... but also LA, AC, SA (EXCELLENT J PRODUCT), IB (as much as I hate their service, great new seat), and BA.

Cheers,
A.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Hardiwv
Posted 2008-08-13 04:39:20 and read 25945 times.



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 22):
= Ok. Ok. I paid USD 3,096 for the return ticket ... though, to be fair, it was a last minute and ticketed in C class

The last time I flew the route I paid for TAM one-way C ticket USD500 and for LAN C ticket one-way USD990. TAM will start flying GRU-SCL with the B777-300 starting end of August and they will feature the new C and F product.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 22):
= Definitely amongst the leaders within Europe. In the world, top 20.

I would rank KL IFE among the top 10 in the world.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 22):
= A lot of better seats serve GRU. You mentioned KE and EK ... but also LA, AC, SA (EXCELLENT J PRODUCT), IB (as much as I hate their service, great new seat), and BA.

Lets see the best C seats in GRU: KE, and EK and AC, for sure, plus as you mentioned and I agree SA, and yes IB seat is great, and BA. I would also inlcude to the list JAL, which sometimes uses its new shell-seat to GRU, plus of course TAM. Regarding the angle seats I would inlcude AF, KL (the new one for the B77W), LA and AM (just experienced this one in July). So there is plenty of good C and F seats available in the market now in GRU making airlines such as CO and DL really look bad!

Rgs,

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Abrelosojos
Posted 2008-08-13 09:30:28 and read 25909 times.



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 23):
Lets see the best C seats in GRU: KE, and EK and AC, for sure, plus as you mentioned and I agree SA, and yes IB seat is great, and BA. I would also inlcude to the list JAL, which sometimes uses its new shell-seat to GRU, plus of course TAM. Regarding the angle seats I would inlcude AF, KL (the new one for the B77W), LA and AM (just experienced this one in July). So there is plenty of good C and F seats available in the market now in GRU making airlines such as CO and DL really look bad!

Rgs,

= How is the AM J class product? I am debating taking them from MEX to NRT via TIJ ... or use JL which I absolutely adore. Any pictures?

Thanks,
A.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Hardiwv
Posted 2008-08-14 08:29:18 and read 25789 times.



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 24):
= How is the AM J class product? I am debating taking them from MEX to NRT via TIJ ... or use JL which I absolutely adore. Any pictures?

Well, AM has a very good product with an angle-seat similar to LA, AF and KL (new B77W seat). However, as you said, JL is just outstanding with their new shell-seat.

The problem of AM is that they currently have only 4 B777s and 2 are ex-RG which have the old seats while other 2 are fitted with the new seat (I was lucky to get the new seats as I flew with "Frida Kahlo"for both legs GRU-MEX and MEX-GRU). But it is a gamble because if you end up with a B777 with the old RG-style seat your trip will certainly be below-average.

To be sure I would then fly JL.

Rgs,

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: ZRH
Posted 2008-08-23 04:34:49 and read 25443 times.



Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 11):
I don't have the feeling that LH thinks SWISS is doing poorly.

On the contrary. LH is very satisfied with the performance of SWISS. Last year LX made a net profit of about 400 mi € and so contributed about 1/4 to LH profit. Therefore SWISS was able to expand their long-haul network quite strongly now flying 25 long-haul frames.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: GOwithCO332
Posted 2008-08-23 07:41:12 and read 25332 times.

As always, great trip report. I always thought of SCL as being much nicer and I don't know "glassier" like EZE is. I love EZE by the way! I arrived there during this breathtaking sunset and these little glimpses of sun you could see from inside the beautiful departure check-in area. Also, I think the duty-free area is really nice in EZE.

In terms of the flight, even I, who loves virtually all airline meals, thinks that LX disappoints on this one. Why do they have to cover the salad and fruit in plastic!? It looks so tacky and bad. I notice this a lot and really wonder why airlines can't just take that wrapping off, especially when flying J, F. Also, the salad looks quite average and I think I can get better tastes in Switzerland quite frankly. However I love the 343 cabin. I think it is modern yet cozy. I would love to fly on it some day.

However, I agree with you that the J seat is aweful to sleep on. I have been on J a couple of times and although I love CO's product, I do not get why they cannot have the legrest come up a little bit. I was falling off the seat the whole flight! Great report though! You seem like you lead a hectic but exciting life...maybe Sao Paulo really is the place for you!

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Abrelosojos
Posted 2008-08-23 13:14:35 and read 25274 times.



Quoting ZRH (Reply 26):
On the contrary. LH is very satisfied with the performance of SWISS. Last year LX made a net profit of about 400 mi € and so contributed about 1/4 to LH profit. Therefore SWISS was able to expand their long-haul network quite strongly now flying 25 long-haul frames.

= Swiss has had a remarkable turnaround and is well positioned as a great addition within the LH network - both strategically and economic wise. However, they are at the mercy of LH management and I think that is what some were referring to.

Quoting GOwithCO332 (Reply 27):
I always thought of SCL as being much nicer and I don't know "glassier" like EZE is. I love EZE by the way! I arrived there during this breathtaking sunset and these little glimpses of sun you could see from inside the beautiful departure check-in area. Also, I think the duty-free area is really nice in EZE.

= SCL is "glassier" than EZE ... and I think most people would prefer SCL than EZE. However, I like airports that are not generic looking.

Quoting GOwithCO332 (Reply 27):
You seem like you lead a hectic but exciting life...maybe Sao Paulo really is the place for you!

= Jaja. I have actively considered moving there. However, our SP office is way too hard working for a slacker like me and has fewer analytical staff in my industry.

Cheers,
A.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2008-08-25 09:43:13 and read 25010 times.



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 24):
I am debating taking them from MEX to NRT via TIJ ... or use JL which I absolutely adore. Any pictures?

I have not been able (yet) to fly to Asia with AM, or on board one of the new-build 772ERs (only the ex-RG 772ERs between MEX and GRU), but I believe there are one or two trip reports about AM's service to NRT, so check them out Alex.

As Hardi mentioned, when it comes to a 777 flight, it is a bit of a crapshoot, because you might get the ex-RG birds, which have a less premium business class cabin. However, at some point in the past, many a.net members said that NRT would only see new-build birds, and not ex-RG planes. Don't know if this still holds true.

I am sure you will not be disappointed if you book your trip with AM. Speaking of which, are you planning a trip to Mexico City soon?

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Readytotaxi
Posted 2008-08-25 10:10:34 and read 24989 times.

FANTASTIC report, really wow.

But tell me, did they really present a salad in Business Class with Cling film over it?  Wow!

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: Abrelosojos
Posted 2008-09-03 10:41:06 and read 24472 times.



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 29):
I am sure you will not be disappointed if you book your trip with AM. Speaking of which, are you planning a trip to Mexico City soon?

= I am in Mexico a lot these days ... though invariably end up spending time at work at client site, and then hang out with my friend in Condesa. He thankfully moved out of his parents house in L Lomas. I thought you were in Monterrey no? If in MEX, we should meet up the next time. I usually do day trips, but a Friday meeting can be extended to the weekend.

Quoting Readytotaxi (Reply 30):
But tell me, did they really present a salad in Business Class with Cling film over it? Wow!

= Pictures don't lie ... do they  Sad?

Cheers,
A.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2008-09-03 11:51:00 and read 24431 times.



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 31):
I am in Mexico a lot these days ... though invariably end up spending time at work at client site, and then hang out with my friend in Condesa. He thankfully moved out of his parents house in L Lomas. I thought you were in Monterrey no? If in MEX, we should meet up the next time. I usually do day trips, but a Friday meeting can be extended to the weekend.

No offense to Regios, but no thanks! I mean, it is a nice and prosperous city, but it is not an optimal place for my line of work.

We can meet quite easily the next time you are here. Both Las Lomas and Condesa are convenient for me, as I live in Polanco and have my office in Santa Fe.

Topic: RE: Swiss LX 97: 10/JUN/08: SCL-GRU: J Cabin
Username: MilesDependent
Posted 2008-09-04 05:05:58 and read 24244 times.

Quite seriously, I look forward to your reports more than anyone else on this site. Big call but it's true. Please keep it up!!


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