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Air France AF 994: 10/AUG/07: CDG-JNB: J Cabin  
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5100 posts, RR: 55
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Feedback always appreciated.

Trip Report: 025
Flight Category: J-ILR (See Report End)
Date: 10-Aug-07
SDT/SAT/Delay: 1015/2050/09:35 hrs (Delayed 01:00)
Flight: Air France AF 994, 5410 miles
Routing: JFK-CDG
Aircraft: 77W
Seat: Business ("Le Espace Affaires"), 8A

I > Background:

Ok, I am back! After taking a sabbatical from trip reports for 5 months, here is the first installation from a series of trip reports. Mid-August to mid-November 2007 saw the craziest of my travel plans. 69 flights totalling 175,028 kms on 35 airlines, visiting 49 airports in 34 countries in all 6 continents. And, here is the best part ...all of them were part of a 4month break from life ... pure vacation, and pure food for the mind, body, and soul. Together, they mounted to 21/2 round-the-worlds that was truly insane. As usual, all long haul flights were on Business or First Class; short haul was on Economy Class.

As I have tried for A.Net audience in the past, several of the reports will be firsts on A.Net. These include either first time airline coverages, routes, airports, flights, or countries. This report on Air France´s (AF) CDG-JNB will be the first for the daytime AF flight. Air France introduced this second daily nonstop flight to JNB earlier in the year, and my travel agent thought it would work as a good connection from JFK´s DL flight. Since I had not flown AF´s 77W, I welcomed the opportunity ... though, I was not looking forward to transitting via my least favorite airport in the world ... CDG. The reason for the trip was to visit a friend in Jo'Burg.

II > Pre-Flight:

a) Before Airport:
Unlike many other A.Netters, I decided to do a piecemeal reservation stringing on several round trips, one-ways, and open jaws. Booking for the CO/DL/AF combo was done using a reliable travel agent here in Caracas. They found a pretty neat deal for CCS-IAH-EWR/JFK-CDG-JNB with the CO segments in Y. To chose my seat assignment, I called AF and was promptly assigned the requested seat at the back of the J class cabin ... seat 8A. I was not impressed by the fact that this could not be done on Air France website at www.airfrance.com.

b) At Airport:
Unfortunately, CDG still remains my least favorite airport. I arrived from an excellent Delta flight and as I expected, we were remotely docked to a far off stand. While the bus trip to the terminal was long, it was not as bad as a few months back when we docked near the cargo hold, the driver got lost, and I missed my connection. Arrival into terminal 2E should have been fairly straightforward as the initial flight monitor said I was also departing from 2E. However, a second flight monitor at connections said I was departing from 2F ... so I took the bus to 2F only to be told that the gate had changed back to 2E ... so another bus, another security check by super rude agents ... and then I was back inside terminal 2E. I needed to check my email ... but the lounge with the internet was closed, and the second lounge did not have internet access. Now it got interesting ... a young black woman was deep in sleep in one of the couch-chairs with her leg up on the table. One of the lounge attendants rudely woke her up and told her that she could not put her leg up, and directed her to one of the cubicle spaces with a reclining chair to sleep. The poor dazed girl did so immediately ... now comes the worst part ... the lounge attendant (in French) went on to chat with another agent on the state of world affairs when "black imbecils are allowed entry"! WTF! Given my usual sensitivity to such racist behavior, I politely asked for her name and have already dispatched a letter to CDG management. Not that I expect my letter to change this kind of completely unacceptable attitude.

Boarding was from the very far gate E65. I thought I was the last one to board as the gate area was deserted and final boarding calls were being made. Later on, we waited for an hour as AF waited for several passengers from the connecting MAD flight.

Upon boarding, an attendant greeted me and took me to my seat. She was surprised that I had no coats to hang, and I was surprised that the load was only 10%! What was interesting and sad was that an old woman (80 years+) in front J was trying to put her small bag up. Since she was short, she was having a hard time reaching for the bin. The 2 AF FAs (haha, thats ironically a palindrome I just realized) just stood there watching her! I went and helped and couldnt fondly remember the IC agent on a flight I reviewed (LINK). Anyways, back to the loads ... seriously, it was 10% ... the entire back of the Business cabin from rows 6 to 10 was empty! There was no one in First Class, and Economy load was a more respectable 70%. It will be interesting to see how this second frequency does for AF. Frankly, I was surprised as I had expected this flight to be a good connection for the bunch of flights from the Americas and Europe.

Airport - External:

NONE

Check-In:

NONE

Airport - Internal:

(Departure Board: Was trying to show that flight displayed 2F, but terminal of actual departure was 2E.)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/001-13.jpg

Scenes of the tarmac:

NONE

Lounge (Air France)

Not impressive at all. Read what happened with the usual racist AF personnel at CDG. Pretty disgusting. No internet, and the closure of the other lounge made it worse.

(Settling down with a cafe and a Spanish newspaper)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/002-13.jpg

Boarding:

(Nice terminal 2E boarding area. Plenty of space)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/004-13.jpg

(Boarding door. No queues as I was one of the last to board)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/005-13.jpg

III> In-Flight:

a) Service Schedule + Impressions:
At the gate, champagne or orange juice was served. After take-off, cold towels, and then an assortment of drinks and biscuit was served. Lunch was served 2.5 hours into the flight. Finally, dinner was served about 1.5 hours prior to arrival at JNB. Amenity kits were waiting in front of the seat; and, I must say, were really nice! I love the shoe bag they include. Very useful!

b) Aircraft + Seats:
The Boeing 777-300ER is an amazing aircraft, and I can never really lose amazement at the huge engines. I was not a fan of AF´s business class seats by any means. The 176 degrees lie flat was thoroughly uncomfortable, and with AF´s layout, I felt extremely cramped. I shudder to think how horrible it would be to have paid a full J fare and be on those seats on a full flight ... do they really have to be 2-3-2 seating?! Ok, so let us deconstruct the seat a bit more ... in an upright position, the seat is fine. However, the moment you begin to recline, it becomes extremely tight. On several occasions, my leg would just get stuck ... and I am NOT tall by any means. Finally, as mentioned, the seat is uncomfortable in the sleep position. I mean, I do like some lie-flat seats ... like SQ old Raffles, but AF seemed definitely pre-historic.

Aircraft:

NONE

Views from Aircraft:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/006-13.jpg

Seat Leg-Room:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/007-13.jpg

Seat Recline + Angle View:

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/008-13.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/009-13.jpg

(Various positions when your feet just get stuck)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/010-12.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/011-12.jpg

(And the uncomfortable semi-recline position)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/013-13.jpg

(Side view. See how cramped the cabin is)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/012-13.jpg

(Front of seat)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/014-13.jpg

(Seat Controls and arm)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/015-13.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/036-1.jpg

Cabin:

(Very empty rear J cabin)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/016-13.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/017-12.jpg

c) Meal + Beverage:

Air France has 2 meal service on this flight. A "traditional service" which is sort of a brunch, and then a pre-arrival meal service" (dinner). Service began soon after take off with beverages and some really tasty beverages. The menu card read as follows:

For my lunch, I chose the absolutely decadent and delicious foie gras as my Hors d' Oeuvre. Unfortunately, the meal service went downhill from there. The fillet of cod had ZERO flavour. It was as if someone went and caught a fish and just put it with some rice. Moreover, the fish was burnt on one side ... I think you can see from the picture. I skipped the cheese and the dessert in order to maintain my very toned body ... hehe. I must say though, the dessert tray looked absolutely delicious. Given the 2 FAs were serving from the trolley, I decided against taking a picture.

Ok, here is where things get worse. So I was starving by the time dinner came (and I had made several runs to the galley where an assortment of self-help drinks and foods were on offer) and was looking forward to my Moroccon styled chicken (see menu). Here is how the conversation went:

FA: "Monseiur, what would you like for Dinner?"
ME: "Madame, I would love the Moroccon styled chicken."
FA: "Of course” (Searches for it)."
FA: "I am sorry Monseiur. We are out of the chicken."
ME: "That is too bad. I was really looking forward to it. What do you have?"
FA: "Let me see. Oh I am sorry Monseiur, we have no meals left for you."

WTF! I mean. This is the most incredible thing I have EVER heard while traveling in J or F. Ok, how the hell can you run out of your ENTIRE J class catering option? How the hell can the FA NOT KNOW this? How the hell does she actually come all the way, and after looking, suddenly figure out there is nothing to eat? How the hell does this happen on a flight with 10% load?! And the worst is she made NO apologies. Nothing. It was like ... a matter of fact, and thats it. Here I was paying a pretty decent sum of money and being told there is nothing to eat! Oh, and there is NO Hors d' Oeuvres left as well?!! WTF! So Madame continued giving me a blank stare and did nothing. She just stood there confused. So anyways (given my hunger, and controlling my anger), I requested her for the food options from the Y cabin or the crew meal or something. Something clicked in her ditzy head, and she said, "Of course Monseiur!"

Anyways, as I pondered the incident, I began to laugh at how incredibly sad the whole thing was. But the final act in the saga was not done yet ... she brought me 2 meals (see picture, shrink wrapped) ... which I do admit were tasty ...¦ but in the final act, she gave me utensils which were ALL nasty. I mean, USED utensils. When was the last time you flew a premium product (or Y product for that matter) and got USED utensils. See my picture. And again, NO apologies or expression of horror when I pointed this out.

Anyways, I was done with this flight. It was just horrible!

(El Menu: Not that it made a difference)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/018-10.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/019-10.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/020-10.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/021-10.jpg

(Welcome Champagne: Pretty good!)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/022-10.jpg

(Some snacks)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/023-9.jpg

(Hors d' Oeuvre: excellent foei gras)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/024-9.jpg

(Main: Poor cod)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/025-9.jpg

(Tea)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/026-4.jpg

(Drink into the flight)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/027-4.jpg

(Bar at the back with food and drinks: Pretty good collection)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/028-3.jpg

(Drink and News)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/029-3.jpg

(Oh No, where is my food?: J class food missing!)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/030-3.jpg

(And that nasty utensil)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/031-3.jpg

d) Inflight Entertainment:
Air France has an average IFE. The screens are average, and the selection of movies are also average. However, they were NOT AVOD and the entire section called "WORLD CINEMA" had no films in it. I forget how many total films there were ... around 10 I believe. Mostly crappy ... and complemented by a crappy "noise canceling" head set. AFs inflight magazine though was pretty good, and there was a HUGE selection of international newspaper and newsmagazines. Surprisingly, lots of English reading materials ... which is weird given AFs natural anti-English stance.

(IFE: Poor headset)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/032-2.jpg

(IFE)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/033-2.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/034-2.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/035-1.jpg

(Moving Maps: Only just over northern Africa)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/037-1.jpg

(It’s a LONG flight)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/038-1.jpg

(In-flight magazines, Boarding Passes, etc.)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/040-1.jpg

e) Crew:

Absolutely unequivocally one of the worst crews I have ever had. Starting from the fact that they never helped the poor woman, the FAs seemed to be doing the few passengers a favour. Service came with absolutely zero smile and no eye contact, and was done with the impression that it was jail-time for the FAs. Besides the famous meal incident, I was amused that AF probably has the only J class crew that places the hot towel on the seat handle, and not on the passengers stretched out hand. Oh, and what the hell do they do on a flight with 10% load? I NEVER saw them between service runs. EVER. No water runs. Nothing. Though, upon ringing the attendant button, I did get a FA in 8 minutes. That is I think my best ever with AF J!

IV> Post-Flight:

JNB arrival was pretty smooth. All I wanted to do was get off the damn flight. I had enough of AF. JNB customs was fast … waiting for bags took forever.

(JNB Airport Arrivals)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/041-1.jpg

V> Impressions + Scores:

Do I really have to spell out what my overall impression was  Smile? I think A.Netters are smart to figure this one out. From the horrific lounge incident, to the poor CDG ops, to the crew performance, to the abysmal food (oh wait, there was NONE), to the poor IFE, to the cramped 2x3x2 seating, there really was NOTHING that I could say in support of AF. I have flown them enough ... and each time, I have been constantly disappointed. I spent a lot of money on this ticket, and it is clear that AF does not value my business. Next time on CDG-JNB, I am going to try Afriqiyah or Timbuktu Air. At least, I am not going to get some pretentious service. Absolutely recommend against AF when given a choice.

Reservation: 6.0
Check-In: N/A
Lounge: 1.0 (WORST EVER)
Boarding: 8.0
Seat: 6.0
Aircraft Overall Ambience: 5.0
IFE: 6.0
Crew Service: 1.0 (WORST EVER)
Food: 1.0 (WORST EVER)
Beverages: 8.0
Amenity Kits + Others Freebies: 9.0 (BEST EVER)
Disembarkation: 7.0
On-Time Record: 6.0
OVERALL IMPRESSION: 5.33*
(Pre-flight average of all-reviews: 6.34)
Lowest Score YET for J product reviewed

(Scores are based on comparison with other airlines in THAT class of service - No comparison of Y vs. F for example)

VI> Other Trip Reports:

1/ Avianca: BOG-LIM: 07/06/06: 7.09pts: Y-IMR
2/ Air Tran: EWR-MDW: 08/02/06: 6.73pts: Y-DMR
3/ West Jet: YYC-YVR: 09/05/06: 7.14pts: Y-DMR
4/ Air Canada: YYZ-YVR: 09/02/06: 5.92pts: Y-DLR
5/ Air Canada: ALB-YYZ: 09/01/06: 5.88pts: Y-ISR
6/ Singapore Airlines: EWR-SIN: 09/20/06: 7.81pts: J-ILR
7/ Adam Air: SIN-CGK: 09/22/06: 6.04: Y-ISR
8/ Valuair: CGK-SIN: 09/22/06: 5.04: Y-ISR
9/ Spice Jet: CCU-DEL: 09/25/06: 6.67: Y-DMR
10/ Indian: DEL-CCU: 09/26/06: 7.25: Y-DMR
11/ Air Sahara: CCU-BOM: 09/28/06: 4.42: Y-DMR
12/ Air Deccan: IXZ-CCU: 10/07/06: 5.75: Y-DMR
13/ Alliance: CCU-IXA: 10/08/06: 7.54: Y-DSR
14/ Kingfisher: IXA-GAU: 10/08/06: 8.21: Y-DSR
15/ Indigo: GAU-CCU: 10/08/06: 6.54: Y-DSR
16/ Singapore Airlines: CCU-SIN: 10/11/06: 5.88: J-IMR
17/ Air Canada: ICN-YYZ: 10/12/06: 7.13: J-ILR
18/ Delta AirLines: SEA-JFK: 11/24/06: 7.17: F-DLR
19/ USA 3000: PUJ-BDL: 01/06/07: 5.96: Y-IMR
20/ Viva Aerobus: CUN-JFK: 02/20/07: 4.58: Y-DSR
21/ Jet Blue: CUN-JFK: 02/20/07: 5.96: Y-IMR
22/ SAS Norge/Braathens: OSL-AES: 05/26/07: 5.75: Y-DSR
23/ TAP Air Portugal: OSL-LIS: 05/29/07: 5.46: Y-IMR
24/ Delta AirLines: JFK-CDG: 08/09/07: 7.85: J-ILR


(Note on Codes: Y - Economy, J - Business, F - First :: I/D - International/Domestic :: SR/MR/LR - Short/Medium/Long Haul :: I have designed these codes so people dont believe my scores are comparing apples and oranges)

VII> Other Pictures:

(Awesome useful amenity kit)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/042.jpg

(Enroute)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k251/abrelosojosnow/043.jpg


Live, and let live.
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Very detailed TR

I'm sorry about the whole food incident. I've heard of so many people raving about AF being so great, but this makes me think I'd rather give my business to KL or LH instead.

How is connecting in CDG though? My parents are looking into flying AF to CPH next spring and this is all the more reason for me to convince them connecting via AMS or FRA or just flying SK.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hola Abrelosojos,
Thanks for the very very informative TR's !! What a remarkable contrast in the inflight product & service you received on DL vs AF!!!
Will you be writing a letter to AF management about your horror experiences on this flight? Gosh. I'm at a loss for words. With the filthy utensils and that they didn't cater the dinner portion of your flight alone I would hope you'll net a refund or a complimentary J class ticket for a trip of similar length. Please let us know what happens.

Even by the looks of the amentity kits and the way you had them laid out, DL's actually looks like it came with more skin care products than the AF one did? What was the branding of the products in the kits? I'm a big fan of the kits (collect them).

Best
LACA773


User currently offline5YKQW From Kenya, joined Feb 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

C'est la vie! May be the crew were pissed off in serving holiday makers while they were on duty. Have yu flown KQ? It would be interesting to benchmark. However, AF flight must have been a one -off.

User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2780 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting 5YKQW (Reply 3):
C'est la vie! May be the crew were pissed off in serving holiday makers while they were on duty

Well that´s not the attitude anyways, they are getting paid to do their job no matter if the passengers are going on holidays, business, or whatever, does not make any sense to me.

A TR on KQ could indeed be interesting, i´ve heard nice comments on their service.

MIAspotter



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineTriple7man From Thailand, joined May 2005, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Yes I would like to hear what AF response is. When you write to them, you should include all details and names of the personnel involved. This will help them in evaluating this.
I don't know what AF's compensation policy is, but usually the airlines give you travel vouchers good toward another ticket or if you are a member of their frequent flier program (and an elite member at that) they will usually bonus your account with extra miles. Hate to spoil things for you, but a refund (for a used ticket, although I'm sure you felt it wasn't worth it) or a free J class ticket are not the usual means of compensation. AF got you to where you needed to go and that was their obligation, still with a J class ticket you are entitled to MUCH better service than you received.
And hopefully you will be able to write another report of much better service on another airline.
The only good thing I saw about your trip was the aircraft a 777.



Have you kissed a 777 today?
User currently offlineSASDC8 From Norway, joined Mar 2006, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Thanks for a really nice report Smile

Interesting to see that DL did so well in your great comparison scale Smile I think that the AF incidents, both in the lounge and in the air, are among the worst that I have ever heard about any airline. Totally unacceptable! AF seriously needs to get their act together.

Stein



2-3-2 is NOT a premium configuration
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 1):
How is connecting in CDG though?

In my experinece? NOT GOOD

Dude--

You should have asked for an F meal LOL. Though as no one there,probably nothing to get.

I agree with Stein, a letter to AF is in order. That is SAD service in the J cabin.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5100 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Thanks a alot for your comments. I really appreciate them, and it makes me want to write more.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 1):
I'm sorry about the whole food incident. I've heard of so many people raving about AF being so great, but this makes me think I'd rather give my business to KL or LH instead.

= Having flown on all of them a lot, I think KL and LH are significantly better than AF. I have heard most of AF praises coming from FB/loyalty members. Usually those who dont have allegiance to AF are more reserved in their praises in my opinion.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 1):
How is connecting in CDG though? My parents are looking into flying AF to CPH next spring and this is all the more reason for me to convince them connecting via AMS or FRA or just flying SK.

= DUDE! FLY VIA AMS! It is a no brainer. AMS is one of the BEST airports in Europe to transit through (along with ZRH and BRU). CDG is a total nightmare. The good thing though is that there are plenty of CPH flights - so if your parents miss one, there is always another one coming up. However, transiting through CDG continue to be a nightmare. The worst customer service agents (and I have seen my share of the world) and the unpredictability of gate usage translates to the need for a really long MCT.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 2):
Thanks for the very very informative TR's !! What a remarkable contrast in the inflight product & service you received on DL vs AF!!!

= Ya. I think the DL product provided a stark reminder of how poor AF really was.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 2):
Will you be writing a letter to AF management about your horror experiences on this flight? Gosh. I'm at a loss for words. With the filthy utensils and that they didn't cater the dinner portion of your flight alone I would hope you'll net a refund or a complimentary J class ticket for a trip of similar length. Please let us know what happens.

= I wrote a letter to management about the racist incident in the lounge. As I had predicted, its been 3+ months and I have heard nothing. Honestly though, I am NOT big about seeking compensation. I agree with Triple7man that they got me to my destination in my class of service and that meets their contractual obligation. When things like this usually happen, I vote with my wallet. I usually spend near a 7 figure USD amount (not kidding) on flights for work and pleasure each year ... and I live in CCS ... they are definitely losing my business when I need them 3-4 times a month to fly CCS-Europe-India/Africa.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 2):
What was the branding of the products in the kits? I'm a big fan of the kits (collect them).

= I will go home and check them. I collect kits too  Smile.

Quoting 5YKQW (Reply 3):
May be the crew were pissed off in serving holiday makers while they were on duty. Have yu flown KQ? It would be interesting to benchmark



Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 4):
Well that´s not the attitude anyways, they are getting paid to do their job no matter if the passengers are going on holidays, business, or whatever, does not make any sense to me.

= I agree with MIAspotter ... that must have been a super shoddy excuse. 1/3 of the world travels for holidays ... so 1/3 of the time you would be pissed? Besides, JNB flights (unlike CPT) has a lot of premium business demand. What I found horrid was that this was AF crew performance on a flight with 10% load in J. Imagine a full flight!

Quoting 5YKQW (Reply 3):
However, AF flight must have been a one -off.

= I wish it was true. I have had other horrible experiences with them ... the only reason to take AF instead of KQ on this route was because my friend (AF fan) promised AF had changed for the better.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 4):
A TR on KQ could indeed be interesting, i´ve heard nice comments on their service.

= Your wish is my command. A KQ TR should be coming up within a week.

Quoting Triple7man (Reply 5):
Yes I would like to hear what AF response is. When you write to them, you should include all details and names of the personnel involved. This will help them in evaluating this.
I don't know what AF's compensation policy is, but usually the airlines give you travel vouchers good toward another ticket or if you are a member of their frequent flier program (and an elite member at that) they will usually bonus your account with extra miles. Hate to spoil things for you, but a refund (for a used ticket, although I'm sure you felt it wasn't worth it) or a free J class ticket are not the usual means of compensation. AF got you to where you needed to go and that was their obligation, still with a J class ticket you are entitled to MUCH better service than you received.
And hopefully you will be able to write another report of much better service on another airline.
The only good thing I saw about your trip was the aircraft a 777.

= Yes. You would think that they would care about their J pax. The problem is that AF has become too big for its own good. On many routes (Africa, Latin Am), they face little competition and no incentive to improve. Worst, their horrible attitude is now being felt on the usually MUCH MUCH better KLM.

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 6):
Interesting to see that DL did so well in your great comparison scale

= Yup. Trust me, I had to pinch and remind myself that this was an American carrier!

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 6):
I think that the AF incidents, both in the lounge and in the air, are among the worst that I have ever heard about any airline. Totally unacceptable! AF seriously needs to get their act together.

= Well. I have had worse experiences on the ground and in Y. But for a J, "premium" product, this is probably the worst service I have had in over 2,000 flights. I will NEVER forget the incident in the AF CDG lounge.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2827 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

I'm sorry to hear that, mate. I fly ten times a year with AF, and never had any problems of that kind.


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineSemsem From Israel, joined Jul 2005, 1779 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

If it happened to me I would ask for Bonus Miles or a partial credit / refund. You deserve something. I agree that CDG is not a pleasant airport. I really liked Madrid. As to AF I have to say that their Y product has been excellent compared to many other airlines.

User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2827 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Arrival into terminal 2E should have been fairly straightforward as the initial flight monitor said I was also departing from 2E. However, a second flight monitor at connections said I was departing from 2F ... so I took the bus to 2F only to be told that the gate had changed back to 2E

Why taking the bus from 2E to 2F? It's right in front!



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5100 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 9):
I'm sorry to hear that, mate. I fly ten times a year with AF, and never had any problems of that kind.

= I am glad things have been positive for you.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 11):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Arrival into terminal 2E should have been fairly straightforward as the initial flight monitor said I was also departing from 2E. However, a second flight monitor at connections said I was departing from 2F ... so I took the bus to 2F only to be told that the gate had changed back to 2E

Why taking the bus from 2E to 2F? It's right in front!

= Well, I made the serious mistake of listening to ADP staff! Worst was that I think the bus did an entire loop before going to 2F. Good planespotting though.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineJetSetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Wow so sorry to hear about your poor flight!

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Mid-August to mid-November 2007 saw the craziest of my travel plans. 69 flights totalling 175,028 kms on 35 airlines, visiting 49 airports in 34 countries in all 6 continents. And, here is the best part ...all of them were part of a 4month break from life ... pure vacation, and pure food for the mind, body, and soul

I would love to see your flightmemory page! Lucky you!


User currently offlineIDISA From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
CDG still remains my least favorite airport.

Mine too...last time I've been to CDG I was in transit from KEF to MXP, don't remember exactly which terminal was but there was no air conditioning (and it was 30°C outside), lot of garbage anywhere, people smoking out of the smoking rooms, very very disgusting place to wait 4 hours your next flight...

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
the driver got lost, and I missed my connection

Man, I' can't believe it!!! That's just crazy!!

I am surprised to see such a cramped cabin, it seems just a LITTLE more than BA World Traveller Plus, which is still Y.
Also the ambient light seem so gloomy and poor, very sad ambience.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Oh I am sorry Monseiur, we have no meals left for you."

Totally out of mind!!!!! I mean, how can you run out of catering in a 10% J load factor?? FA are supposed to take care of catering forniture before departure checking the correct number of meals first and then verify that special meals are also boarded. It's really incredible and I'm speachless...

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
I mean, USED utensils.

Man, that would have been too much for me and I wanted to get my hands on the FA. It would have been interesting asking to speak to the Captain after the flight and pointing him out what happened.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 1):
How is connecting in CDG though?

A real NIGHTMARE!!

Ciao
IDISA


User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2827 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 12):
Well, I made the serious mistake of listening to ADP staff! Worst was that I think the bus did an entire loop before going to 2F. Good planespotting though.

The bus does indeed a loop.

CDG is a strange airport anyway. Terminal 1 is a mess and the car park is a complete maze. Long term car parks in CDG are indicated as "Px". WTF does "Px" mean?!

Terminal 2 (and especially 2F) is much better though, with the High-speed train station located at 5 minutes walk. Very handy  Smile



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineDavidkunzVIE From Austria, joined Mar 2007, 431 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
black imbecils are allowed entry

Whoa!

AF seems like THE airline to avoid...

Thanks for the report, very eye-opening.



DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 11):
Why taking the bus from 2E to 2F? It's right in front!



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 12):
Well, I made the serious mistake of listening to ADP staff! Worst was that I think the bus did an entire loop before going to 2F. Good planespotting though.

Yeah, I've had the same experience. Was told to get on the bus.....had a 50 min connection, was worried the whole time I'd never make it in time once I saw the bus route.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8549 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

What a read, really never thought AF would provide such a poor service, one hopes this is one of a small number of poor flights people have with them - that said, I never fly AF so what do I care?

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Flight: Air France AF 994, 5410 miles
Routing: JFK-CDG

- You sure? Smile

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Unfortunately, CDG still remains my least favorite airport

- Agreed, dirty, messy and just no organisation at all.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
now comes the worst part ... the lounge attendant (in French) went on to chat with another agent on the state of world affairs when "black imbecils are allowed entry"! WTF! Given my usual sensitivity to such racist behavior, I politely asked for her name and have already dispatched a letter to CDG management. Not that I expect my letter to change this kind of completely unacceptable attitude.

- Amazing, trully speechless!

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
with AF´s layout, I felt extremely cramped. I shudder to think how horrible it would be to have paid a full J fare and be on those seats on a full flight ... do they really have to be 2-3-2 seating?!

- Nasty, should be 2-2-2.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Oh I am sorry Monseiur, we have no meals left for you."

- Never heard such a thing, that is just pathetic!

Wow, an amazing read.

Regards

Mark



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineRdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 904 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

As a foody I think that the crew ate all the Dinner meals whilst they moaned about the 10% load ,as really they wanted a 0% load.Then they realized and thought they had better look surprised when they could not find the meal!! It is interesting that you did not receive a reply from the Airport but then again it is a French operated service so what do you expect??? They are, as someone once said, a Shower just a real shower.

User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2827 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 16):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
black imbecils are allowed entry

Whoa!

AF seems like THE airline to avoid...

Thanks for the report, very eye-opening.

Wait wait wait, please don't make this AF bastard a generality for the company. Most likely you fell on a racist prick, but please don't conclude that all AF members are like that. Because it's simply not true.

Thanks  pray 



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5100 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Thanks a lot for all the comments thus far.

Quoting JetSetter629 (Reply 13):
I would love to see your flightmemory page! Lucky you!

= Ya, its cool  . Though, I do have some big gaps - like never having flown within Russia, never having flown from South America to Africa, and very few intra-African flights. Its a big world out there ... but I am trying to cover it!

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 18):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Flight: Air France AF 994, 5410 miles
Routing: JFK-CDG

- You sure?

= LOL. Um, yes … I am sure dammit  . This is why I should not write TRs at 3,00am!

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 18):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
now comes the worst part ... the lounge attendant (in French) went on to chat with another agent on the state of world affairs when "black imbecils are allowed entry"! WTF! Given my usual sensitivity to such racist behavior, I politely asked for her name and have already dispatched a letter to CDG management. Not that I expect my letter to change this kind of completely unacceptable attitude.

- Amazing, trully speechless!



Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 16):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
black imbecils are allowed entry

Whoa!

AF seems like THE airline to avoid...

Thanks for the report, very eye-opening.

= Yup. Its amazing in’nit?! And, the worst part is that AF management will do nothing about it. This is not the first time something insane like this happened.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 17):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 12):
Well, I made the serious mistake of listening to ADP staff! Worst was that I think the bus did an entire loop before going to 2F. Good planespotting though.

Yeah, I've had the same experience. Was told to get on the bus.....had a 50 min connection, was worried the whole time I'd never make it in time once I saw the bus route.



Quoting IDISA (Reply 14):
Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 1):
How is connecting in CDG though?

A real NIGHTMARE!!



Quoting IDISA (Reply 14):
Mine too...last time I've been to CDG I was in transit from KEF to MXP, don't remember exactly which terminal was but there was no air conditioning (and it was 30°C outside), lot of garbage anywhere, people smoking out of the smoking rooms, very very disgusting place to wait 4 hours your next flight...



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 18):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Unfortunately, CDG still remains my least favorite airport

- Agreed, dirty, messy and just no organisation at all.

= You guys. Trust me. I feel the pain! CDG is the worst airport in the world - and I am not just comparing it with the developed nations. I prefer transiting in (say) Tripoli than Paris.

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 19):
As a foody I think that the crew ate all the Dinner meals whilst they moaned about the 10% load ,as really they wanted a 0% load.Then they realized and thought they had better look surprised when they could not find the meal!! It is interesting that you did not receive a reply from the Airport but then again it is a French operated service so what do you expect??? They are, as someone once said, a Shower just a real shower.



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 18):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Oh I am sorry Monseiur, we have no meals left for you."

- Never heard such a thing, that is just pathetic!



Quoting IDISA (Reply 14):
Totally out of mind!!!!! I mean, how can you run out of catering in a 10% J load factor?? FA are supposed to take care of catering forniture before departure checking the correct number of meals first and then verify that special meals are also boarded. It's really incredible and I'm speachless...



Quoting IDISA (Reply 14):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter):
I mean, USED utensils.

Man, that would have been too much for me and I wanted to get my hands on the FA. It would have been interesting asking to speak to the Captain after the flight and pointing him out what happened.

= You really think the crew cared? I don’t think the Captain would have. I just don’t get it though. I mean, what is more incredible … NO meals in J cabin with a 10% load or the response of the FA!

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 20):
Wait wait wait, please don't make this AF bastard a generality for the company. Most likely you fell on a racist prick, but please don't conclude that all AF members are like that. Because it's simply not true.

Thanks

= Of course I am sure that not all AF members are like that. However, if you read the posts from a lot of non-French people in the past, my experience is not a one-off. It is sad. But I don’t think many people in the French service industry understand the concept of a global world. However, that is NOT the topic of this thread.

Cheers,
A.

[Edited 2007-11-21 13:16:14]


Live, and let live.
User currently offlineCO777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 691 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Well for what its worth, AF ran out of Y meals on a CDG - LAX flight about 2 years ago. I was offered an extra melted ice-cream bar instead. I wrote them a letter and never heard back. Any feedback from the mgmt over at AF?

User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5100 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting CO777ER (Reply 22):
Well for what its worth, AF ran out of Y meals on a CDG - LAX flight about 2 years ago. I was offered an extra melted ice-cream bar instead. I wrote them a letter and never heard back. Any feedback from the mgmt over at AF?

= LOL. It does make me feel better  Smile. I was beginning to think I was not served because I was from Liechtenstein (kidding). No, feedback from management ... its been 3 months, so I am not really expecting to hear back.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5100 posts, RR: 55
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

I should state that I have received 2 PMs from very nice and apologetic AF crew members who have also forwarded this link to upper management. It is interesting to note their pro-active handling of the situation ... wish management did the same!

Cheers,
A.

PS: Can crew members out there point something to me? Can you really run out of meals in an empty cabin? I mean, I can understand meals not being loaded ... but run out on such an empty cabin? Does this happen a lot? In J?



Live, and let live.
25 JetSetter629 : Awesome! I hope you fulfill your dream!
26 GrahamHill : Sorry if I seem to defend my people and my country, but what you say is not entirely correct. You cannot say that CDG is the "worst airport in the wo
27 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = I am not angry at all. I just reported the service as is. Please read over the report and find out all the things that were good and that I pointed
28 Post contains images GrahamHill : hahaha yes . There, I'm totally with you! What I mean is that an airport is always better if it's not a big... thing like CDG. I do prefer as well tr
29 Vio : Very good trip report. I'm actually shocked to hear what you've just said. Wow!. I've never flown on AF before, but you get better service at McDonald
30 Abrelosojos : = LOL. You really have a problem with Tripoli don't you (just joking). I have actually only flown through TRI on Afriqiyah. Good and VERY bizarre exp
31 Post contains images GrahamHill : I will! But first I am preparing my trip to Sydney in February. I will probably take AF (to go to Singapore, then I'll fly with SQ to Sydney). I will
32 Post contains images Buck3y3nut : once again a great trip report... really enjoyed reading it. too bad you got that horrid service in J and that too from AF. Oh well, I guess not all c
33 TYCOON : I am astounded by this report and sense there might be some exaggeration in it. I have flown both AF and DL ever since I was a young child both in eco
34 Marcus380 : Pictures not be seen Can u fix it ?
35 Post contains images DavidkunzVIE : Point taken.
36 B747forever : Brilliant TR. As usual you makes good TRs. The pics are really good. Really pity that you had a bad experience with AF. Thought that AF was a great ca
37 Abrelosojos : = Sure. Thank you. = You are entitled to your point of view, and forums like this are meant to discuss various viewpoints. I am disappointed that you
38 TYCOON : Abrelosojos, I did read carefully your whole report which was very interesting and you did write the following: "Read what happened with the usual rac
39 Abrelosojos : = Again, please do re-read. I mentioned this because it was NOT a one-off. Its not unfair or slanted because those are the experience I have onserved
40 IDISA : Sorry TYCOON but I do not agree. Remember Abrelosojos was flying J and when you're flying J you're supposed to get what you deserve. Having a lounge
41 Abrelosojos : = I finally got home after a week of work in San Juan. DL's is from LATHER, AF's is from CLARINS. I liked the AF kit because it had things I utilized
42 Post contains links Abrelosojos : = Promised you a TR on KQ, and its up at Kenya Airways KQ 470: 19/AUG/07: NBO-BJM: Y Cabin (by Abrelosojos Nov 22 2007 in Trip Reports) Cheers, A.
43 Jyatlantic : What a fatal catering mistake! You should request and expect a HEFTY, HEFTY compensation! I mean, this is unheard of in first/second class. Heck, even
44 ZKSUJ : Nice report, although its a pity to hear that your experience was not the best
45 Abrelosojos : = I dont think I have ever heard the classes being referred to as first class, second class, and third class! LOL. Ya, I am not big into seeking comp
46 GoAllegheny : By the reports I read on A.Net, airlines (well, maybe US airlines in particular) are spending a lot of money on some pretty uncomfortable business cl
47 Post contains images Vega : Gads!! Are you certain this was not a "Training Flight" ?
48 SR 103 : Once again, great report. Pleasure to read. I agree, a very annoying feature but at least the Flying Blue agents I deal with on the phone are always p
49 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = I am not part of Flying Blue. After KLM and AF merged their programs, I cancelled my Flying Dutchman membership ... think FB is a HUGE devaluation.
50 DALelite : Wow, i am shocked by your AF review. Things like this should not happen in any premier classes. Thank you for standing up for the black woman back in
51 Post contains images Abrelosojos : I have received several PM's over the last few months on whether AF followed up. Just to let everyone know that AF has not even acknowledged my letter
52 B707forever : I'm sad to say I'm not surprised by this trip report. Though I worked for AF back in the 80's for a bit, I find AF hit and miss. If you find a nice cr
53 Toulouse : Abrelosojos, well done on another inetresting TR. I am sorry you had such a bad experience with AF. In my experience, and I fly theml very frequently
54 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = I am glad AF and CDG has worked for you. I have also flown them frequently ... until a string of bad experiences. Of course being in Toulouse, you
55 Abrelosojos : = Thanks for sharing your comments. It is really interesting for me to hear from ex-AF crew who are not surprised at my awful treatment in their hand
56 Toulouse : Abrelosojos, I do apologise if in my state of tirdeness last night I seemed to be accusing you. that was not the case, I enjoy your TR's and value you
57 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = Thanks. I did not take them as you accusing me. You were expressing your views, and I were of mine. = We all form opinions based on various things.
58 Whisperjet : Hi, thank you very much for this interesting report. I haven't read all comments regarding this report yet, so I hope nobody else has asked you this b
59 CastropRauxel : LOL... that was hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing (though I'm sure I wouldn't be laughing if I were you...). oh man. unbelievable. I just want you t
60 Babybus : That seat in bed mode looks a bit lumpy. Was it? I always look forward to meals on Air France and the service, in my experience, has always been fanta
61 Aleksandar : Ugly thing to witness. I would have done the same thing as you did. Did you get any reply from CDG?
62 Abrelosojos : This report surely has a long shelf life. = Yes. I sent them several letters and got no response. Initially, I had a few FA's from AF write me and how
63 CastropRauxel : Don't mention it, it was worth the burn!
64 Pumaknight : am sorry, but your TR made me laugh....I mean your service was so bad, you have to laugh, otherwise you would cry. the dirty knife is priceless!!! Whe
65 fidelidade : I read this and first I laugh at how funny it is. Then I become sad thinking you work so hard to earn money to pay for this? I mean, I can't understan
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