CityofAthens From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8124 times:
Thanks for taking the time to write up this report and offer some fabulous footage.
It's also nice to read that service on US carriers can be just as good, if not better, than their competitors ... I must admit, up until now it seems to have been the other way round.
Just a few points: the seats on the BA 767 are not the new Club World ... they are the old Club World seats, and have been around for a few years now. All the 747s have the new Club World, with the 777s to follow. BA also offers AVOD on all 747 and 767 services, so you should have had AVOD on your flight from BWI.
BWI is not at all unpopular with BA crew; that was DTW, which thankfully has been removed from the network.
Sorry to read you had some miserable crew on your BA flight ... what can I say - it's really inexcusable!
The AA new J class seats look absolutely fabulous - as does that sundae! I will probably never experience them, but it was lovely to see your photos - I'm glad you had a much better flight back!
Henkybaby From Netherlands, joined May 2008, 517 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8077 times:
Nice report.
However since you are comparing AA to the OLD Club World (as has been pointed out) much of that comparison goes out the window. NCW is much better, has better seats, better divider, thicker cushions and more privacy. I like the layout and flying backwards, but that is personal.
As far as the attitude of the flight crew goes: that can happen on any airline. During my travels that has happened most often on American carriers. Mind you: BA is not always perfect either.
Reading the report and looking at the pictures of AA I would still choose BA with ease. Of course this is personal.
BA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 6128 posts, RR: 53 Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7287 times:
Good set of pictures, interesting read too.
As per above, the BA 763's are not fitted with NCW, they have the 1st generation seat, bit unfair to describe it as something it is not.
A good or bad set of crews will always make the difference on a flight, it appears you got unlucky with BA and lucky with AA on these flights, these things happen.
Given a choice of the 2, my prefence would be BA over AA anytime, however I'd take AA over UA.
Genius12 From United Kingdom (England), joined Aug 2007, 115 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7064 times:
Good trip report with some great pictures. Perhaps a little too much information in Paris.
The OP is actually right - NCW (New Club World) is now the 'old' style blue seat found on the longhaul B763s and the B772s. NGCW (Next Generation Club World) is the 'new' style white/grey seat found on the B744s. The B772s will be fitted with NGCW over the next year.
I actually find those snacks that AA serve a little tacky - at least BA's nuts are in a bag with muted colours.
I wouldn't take kindly to the cabin crew throwing amenity kits around in the economy class cabin, let alone business class.
LHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6993 times:
Interesting.
The problem is, you're comparing a short late-night red-eye from the East Coast, with an abridged service to allow for more sleep, using older Club World seats, to a longer 10-hour flight from CDG to MIA on AA with their new J class seat, and on the two-class aircraft which uses an enhanced J class service due to the lack of an F product on this aircraft. It's not exactly a fair comparison.
I do like AA service, but I've also spent the last four years flying BA Club World. I love the BA product, it feels very familiar to me, but then again, I spent 13 years flying AA J and F.
Actually, across the pond, my personal preference from a service stand-point is CO BusinessFirst. The crew attitude and elaborate meal service on CO stands head-and-shoulders above both BA and AA, IMHO. It's all about product focus. On BA, the focus is the flat-bed seat. On CO, it's the crew and the meal service. On AA, it's the food. When CO has a proper flat-bed seat, they'll easily have the winning product across the pond.
Sketty222 From United Kingdom (England), joined Mar 2006, 1495 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6698 times:
You have written a good report with some great pics but as others have pointed out, that is not the New Club World.
From some of your comments you sound as if you are so pleased that AA have got one over on BA, except they havnt
As LHR777 mentioned, you compared a 7hr overnight flight with a 10hour daytime flight.
If you had flow AA overnight to CDG on one of their 767's and flown BA to MIA on one of their 747's I think we would have had a completely different TR
Thanks for the pics though, and yes, that sundae does look appetising
Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 2254 posts, RR: 10 Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6257 times:
To be honest, I don't think this was at all a completely a unbiased trip report.
To me, this looks like a trip report where the winner was already decided prior to the trip.
BA's old product is still fully flat, and as others have already said, it is the new product that should be compared.
Next... as for the sunday's. Excuse me? Ummm... what are you 10 years old? Seriously, this is supppose to be a premium experience. You're obviously an educated person, so i'd expect your pallet to be perhaps a little more sophisticated then ice-cream... particularly after you would, i assume, have just been eating in Parsian Restaurants. I mean after all, those who can afford to pay $8000 for a ticket generally can afford to eat in nicer restaurants and experience a few of life's little luxuries, including more gourmet food.
Your own pictures show an excellent array of lounge products at BA.. and why aren't there any photos of Americans to match that? Is it because, maybe, American didn't offer as much in that department?
Next, if you flew from IAD instead of BWI you would have been able to get on the 744 with the new product, and hopefully a better crew. Yes I know its a longer hike... but how far away is Paris?
Bad crew is always in excusable. If they were as you suggested then that is indeed negative points to BA.
On the positive though, it is nice to see that in some areas AA have lifted their game. I think they could have hired a stylist to make those seats look a little better and need to introduce desserts that are actually prepared by a chef and not mass produced. Singapore Airlines gives economy class passengers ice cream... surely we can do better then that.
Oh...and as for the delays...yes, 100% agreement. Not good enough unless there's some really bad weather.
CharlesMD From United States, joined Dec 2005, 67 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6115 times:
What do food choices have to do with education and wealth?
I like ice cream sundaes. I have eaten in a lot of restaurants, expensive and cheap. Some of my best, most memorable meals have been at $10/plate places. Ice cream also reminds me of being young. We all have biases.
Why do you think UA, AA, CO, DL have ice cream sundaes in their premium cabins? I think it offers a competitive advantage.
On SQ they give you Haagen Daaz in Y. I am talking an ice cream sundae, which is different. I have gone all over the world trying to reproduce the AA ice cream sundae, which incidentally is made of Breyers Vanilla Bean ice cream and Smuckers hot fudge. But it doesn't taste as good, as when it's served by a flight attendant with a 38,0000 ft. view.
I did forget to put in pics of the MIA AC but perhaps you missed my pics of the CDG AAdmirals club.
Qantasistheway From Australia, joined May 2008, 284 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5788 times:
If it were me I would DEFINATELY choose BA, I tend to avoid US Based Carriers for personal reasons. Also I would expect more from and $8000 fare than an ice-cream, but I liked your trip report. I also can"t comprehend why a Cabin Crew would start to toss amenity kits around like an American football, I would expect that from someone like Ryanair but not from a "Premium" oneworld carrier.
Just My Two Cents
Keep Up the Good Reports
Wouwout From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 98 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5419 times:
Thanks for the report.
Liked the detailed nature of your report, however don't agree with you preferences (throwing amenity kits and sundaes). BA's lounge (especially the new one in London, great food selection) seemed miles ahead of AA's, however this is somehow not mentioned.
BAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 675 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5339 times:
Just to add to the chorus Lol the Club World seats on the 767 fleet are what is now the 'old' Club World (original lie flat product). The 767 is not due to receive the new seat.
BWI being an unpopular route as far as BA crew goes: not necessarily. I thinks its more that the 767 can be an unpopular aircraft to work on. The general consensus within the BA crew community is that the 767 is not kitted out as a 'true' long haul aircraft. It is referred to as 'the skoda jet' and 'the flying hoover'. I love working in World Traveller (economy) on it, but working up front in a nightmare. It is not crew friendly at all. Compared to the 777/747 the forward galley (which serves Club on the 767) is small, cramped and un-comfortable, hand baggage stowage is a nightmare due to the smaller overhead lockers and the inconvenience of having loads of emergency equipment taking up room in them as there is nowhere else to stow it on the aircraft.
There is a lot BA could do to make it a more pleasant aircraft for both passengers & crew. Install the 777-like lockers. Install some more stowage space for emergency equipment. Refurb the disgustingly embarassing loos. Modernise galley areas etc. And maybe install some proper crew bunks on it...? hehe But I guess due to the short/medium term future of the aircraft in the BA fleet they are choosing not to spend the ££££.
On a MAJOR plus side (i think anyway) Club on the 767 is a 2x2x2 config with a nice cosy 24 seat cabin versus the 2x4x2 48 seat cabin on the 777 or 2x4x2 seat 58 or 70 seat CW cabin on the jumbo.
At BA at the briefing of each flight we bid for our working positions on the aircraft in seniority. 8 times out of 10 that i've worked on the 767 the two crew working in the Club cabin have been left to the most junior Purser and last choice crew member. Of course not making excuses for rude service here. Sorry for that, you shouldnt have had to endure surly service.
Ice cream sundae: I think they are as quintessentially american on US carriers as satay is on Malaysian or SQ or 'high tea' is on BA in First. I like those national quirks on airlines.
Capitol8s From United States, joined Apr 2004, 83 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 5030 times:
Excellent trip report and great pics.
Why was a pax moved to the back of J-class on the NRT flight? ( I understand the need for privacy but unless he was sitting in your seat there was no reason for him to be moved and no reason that you received a 100.00 duty free cpn for this issue)
Why would you make a comment such as you did about a full J-Class cabin on the NRT sector ?
Why did you feel that you needed an entire J-class cabin to yourself ?
LACA773 From United States, joined Nov 2004, 1981 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4704 times:
Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 5): Good set of pictures, interesting read too.
As per above, the BA 763's are not fitted with NCW, they have the 1st generation seat, bit unfair to describe it as something it is not.
A good or bad set of crews will always make the difference on a flight, it appears you got unlucky with BA and lucky with AA on these flights, these things happen.
Given a choice of the 2, my prefence would be BA over AA anytime, however I'd take AA over UA.
Regards
Mark
Agree 150 % and thankyou. 90% of the time it's rude and indifferent flight crews in the premium cabins on AA we read about in the TR's NOT BA!
Quoting LHR777 (Reply 8): Actually, across the pond, my personal preference from a service stand-point is CO BusinessFirst. The crew attitude and elaborate meal service on CO stands head-and-shoulders above both BA and AA, IMHO. It's all about product focus. On BA, the focus is the flat-bed seat. On CO, it's the crew and the meal service. On AA, it's the food. When CO has a proper flat-bed seat, they'll easily have the winning product across the pond.
Both CO & DL do great meal services, better than both AA & UA.
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12): Nice trip report, surprised that AA's aminity kits are somewhat weak, especially compared to NW's.
Weak is an understatement for AA's amentity kit. For goodness sakes, BA has high end Molton Brown products in their CW kits and their first kit blow nearly all other's out of the water.
Quoting BAStew (Reply 16): Just to add to the chorus Lol the Club World seats on the 767 fleet are what is now the 'old' Club World (original lie flat product). The 767 is not due to receive the new seat.
BWI being an unpopular route as far as BA crew goes: not necessarily. I thinks its more that the 767 can be an unpopular aircraft to work on. The general consensus within the BA crew community is that the 767 is not kitted out as a 'true' long haul aircraft. It is referred to as 'the skoda jet' and 'the flying hoover'. I love working in World Traveller (economy) on it, but working up front in a nightmare. It is not crew friendly at all. Compared to the 777/747 the forward galley (which serves Club on the 767) is small, cramped and un-comfortable, hand baggage stowage is a nightmare due to the smaller overhead lockers and the inconvenience of having loads of emergency equipment taking up room in them as there is nowhere else to stow it on the aircraft.
There is a lot BA could do to make it a more pleasant aircraft for both passengers & crew. Install the 777-like lockers. Install some more stowage space for emergency equipment. Refurb the disgustingly embarassing loos. Modernise galley areas etc. And maybe install some proper crew bunks on it...? hehe But I guess due to the short/medium term future of the aircraft in the BA fleet they are choosing not to spend the ££££.
On a MAJOR plus side (i think anyway) Club on the 767 is a 2x2x2 config with a nice cosy 24 seat cabin versus the 2x4x2 48 seat cabin on the 777 or 2x4x2 seat 58 or 70 seat CW cabin on the jumbo.
At BA at the briefing of each flight we bid for our working positions on the aircraft in seniority. 8 times out of 10 that i've worked on the 767 the two crew working in the Club cabin have been left to the most junior Purser and last choice crew member. Of course not making excuses for rude service here. Sorry for that, you shouldnt have had to endure surly service.
Ice cream sundae: I think they are as quintessentially american on US carriers as satay is on Malaysian or SQ or 'high tea' is on BA in First. I like those national quirks on airlines.
Thanks so much the information on how it is for you great BA cabin crew folks to work the 763s. Does this route do well BAStew? With the plight of the US economy and fuel prices is their talk or word of this route possibly getting the axe?
Is there a reason BAStew the second meal service is rather weak? Even when I've taken it from LAX the breakfast is not much of anything at all. NZ serves a lovely meal, and I believe VS serves a more substantial meal on the second serving. I do know they serve a hot breakfast in P (as I was able to fly it once RT all other trips in CW). Do you know if they'll ever offer a better more plentiful second service? From what I've seen and understand, the main cabin is next to nothing. I'm interested to hear how they does this.
Charles, I enjoyed another wonderful TR from you. Thanks very much. I like your humor and informative details you include.
Its' a matter of preference who we all prefer or favor. I'm happy you like AA-you're in the minority for the most part if you go through and read all about premium service in AA's cabins. The majority being negative rather than positive.
If you ever take BA again, maybe you can drive down to IAD and fly on a 777 from their or a 744? You'll definitely get a better service.
Carfield From United States, joined Dec 2003, 1061 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4517 times:
Thanks CharlesMD for a wonderful trip report! I always enjoy reading your reports and they are full of useful information and I love the menu transcripts.
But I think I somewhat disagree with you concerning if AA NGBC is really better than BA NCW. I am not a big fan of NGBC, but then AA NGBC is just a major disaster in my opinion. The seats have lots of good gadgets, but the seats are way too slippery and AA tries to cramp too many seats. The sleeping position is just horrific. I actually stop flying AA J on international flights because of that horrible NGBC seat. BA's NGBC seats on the other hand look better in paper and the seats are a bit flimsy and lack storage spaces for small items, even for a pair of eye-glasses. The seats are at least fully flat.
Service wise - I don't think AA is that bad and BA is not that great. But AA just seems to have more bad apples than BA. AA can be excellent if you get a happy crew, but on the other hand, some of AA F/As are uninterested in the jobs. BA is okay but nothing extraordinary though. But at least BA is fairly consistent and the F/As at least try to give you what you need.
Food wise - AA two class service is very nice... they can use more variation, but the food in general is very well on the two-class aircraft. Some of the seafood dishes are well prepared and I once had a really nice seafood risotto. BA's food on other hand need some help. I still think a fresh linen should be placed on the tray table before the meal service. That is just make the meal nicer. I also think a proper business class meal should have cheese, fruit, and dessert, not cheese OR dessert service. BA's snack tray is a bit better especially the new Club World Kitchen. AA is a bit weak on that aspect.
Anyway, thanks for your report again! I hope you don't mind my honest opinions. Both AA and BA have their strengths and weaknesses, but both can be better. It is a matter of whether they want to try or not.
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