Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 25 Posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 21310 times:
Feedback always appreciated.
Trip Report: 049
Flight Category: J-ILR (See Report End)
Date: 05 Jun-08
SDT/SAT/Delay: 2355/1025+1/10:30 hrs
Flight: Air Canada AC 92, 5332 miles
Routing: YYZ-SCL
Aircraft: 763
Seat: Business “Executive First”, 8A
I > Background:
I had been on a tough away assignment in Boston for 3 months and earned a well deserved break by the time the engagement was over and June had rolled in. Instead of going back to Caracas directly, I decided to visit a few random places I had not been to in a while. Since I had not visited Chile in 2 years, Santiago won out. The idea was to spend some time with my friends and then go to Puntas Arenas to visit another friend who works there. I have been wanting to try AC’s new J product as the experience I had with their 2006 flight from ICN to YYZ was everything but spectacular … (Read report here)
A quick search on A.Net tells me that this is the second report on AC’s J class, and the first on a Canada – Latin America route.
II > Pre-Flight:
a) Before Airport:
Air Canada is the “flag” carrier of Canada. A Star Alliance member, Air Canada has just finished a fundamental shift in its business model which their Board hopes will reap dividends in the future. From a lethargic government organization, Air Canada is now poised to exploit Canada’s continued economic rise and grow to a truly important airline. Its route network spans across the globe – though, there are notable exceptions. It only has a surprisingly vibrant Latin network, and has plans to build on it in the future.
Ticketing was done on Air Canada’s website (www.aircanada.com). While not the benchmark for an airline website, it seamlessly allowed me to book/change/view/print my itineraries several times over. It even has an option to see seat availability … but would choke anytime I needed to make an actual seat selection. Calling the rather rude Florida based agents however took care of that.
b) At Airport:
YYZ is a “dead zone” past 2230 and I thought I was the only person in the entire terminal. It is eerily empty with the T1 FID confirming only 4 flights – LHR, GRU, TLV, and my SCL-EZE flights.
Check-in itself was extremely smooth and pleasant and I soon had my bags tagged priority, boarding pass issued, and on my way out of Canada. Security was a breeze and I made it to the AC Maple Leaf lounge with enough time to check email and have a drink. The lounge itself is spacious and has all modern amenities such as free internet terminals, showers, and food and beverage options. It was spacious – but at this hour, anything would look spacious. My only issue with the lounge is that it looks super IKEA generic – it really could have been anywhere in the world.
Anyways, boarding was called at 2300 and I made myself to the gate – there was an interesting mix of passengers – Canadian tourists, expat Latins, and the Argentine volleyball team? They were super amusing and took pictures of all the most random things. Business class passengers were asked to board first, and I entered the immaculate 763 and was immediately struck by the blue mood lighting. It looked really pleasant. One of the crew members greeted me and took me to my seat … 8A is hands-down the best seat in the house for its privacy … though do be warned of the noise from the Y cabin, especially the basinet seats.
Upon reaching my seat, I was impressed by the water bottles and amenity kits that were already there. Additionally, we were treated to a welcome drink of champagne or orange juice, 3 newspapers, and headsets. One thing that caught my eye … leftover alcohol stirrers in the seat which indicated that the seat had not been cleaned well. Not good.
J load was less than 20% … making me think that the flight did not make money.
Airport - External:
(YYZ – T1)
Check-in:
Airport - Internal:
(Look how empty it is)
(FID)
(Pre security)
Scenes of the tarmac:
NONE
Lounge
Boarding:
(Boarding area)
(Serene boarding)
III> In-Flight:
a) Service Schedule + Impressions:
Very impressive. Service starts as soon as you get on board with a hot towel service … and a welcome drink … and newspapers being distributed. Immediately after take off, there is a beverage and dinner service. An hour prior to landing, there is a cold towel service and a breakfast.
b) Aircraft + Seats:
Air Canada’s “XM’d” 763 looked truly immaculate, and I was impressed how an upgrade could completely transform an aircraft to look brand new. I mean, check out my old TR on AC’s 763 …
(Read report here). The interior is spotless and well-maintained and the blue hue was extremely pleasant to the eye. The bathrooms were well stocked throughout the flight and was clean even after the 10+ hour flight at SCL.
AC’s J class configuration for their 763 include the herringbone 1-1-1 staggered layout. The seats are 180 degrees lie flat, have a 70” pitch, with 20.4” width. While the seat was comfortable, the lack of storage was annoying. Also, the magazine rack was cramped and the overall seat material was not the best in the market.
As mentioned, I was not a big fan of the seat material. However, it is extremely comfortable, and I did appreciate all the pre-set postures. Additionally, seat is extremely comfortable in lie flat situation and I was able to snooze off for over 6+ hours. You do have to get use to the some uncomfortable folds, but you do that pretty easily I think.
What is super weird about the staggered layout is when the aircraft taxis and makes turns, you can really feel the entire fuselage turning as you face side-ways. Does this make sense? It also feels weird facing side-ways when taking off and landing. While looking at the bins, you kinda feel the whole aircraft moving and taking off … all very earthy . Unlike some other reviewers of the herring-bone configuration, I personally did not think that you had to really tilt too much to look out of the window.
Oh, and I did like how the blue lights for the seat controls auto-turned on and off based on what position you were in.
Aircraft:
(AC 763 @ SCL. Photo Courtesy: F. Muro)
Views from Aircraft:
(Entering Chilean airspace)
(Beautiful water body 15minutes from SCL)
Seat Leg-Room:
Seat Recline + Angle View:
Cabin:
(Photo Courtesy: E. Fortin)
(Notice the soothing blue mood lighting)
(Nasty – what I found upon boarding)
c) Meal + Beverage:
My last Air Canada J flight (ICN-YYZ) had relatively poor catering (Read report here)
) and had scored a 7.0 on the scale. However, this flight was very different. Service consisted of pre-beverage drinks (champagne + orange juice), menus distributed on ground, order taken just post take-off, a dinner service, and a pre-arrival breakfast service.
For dinner, one could get an “express meal” option and go to bed, or have a more relaxed dinner. Since I was hungry, I chose the later option. Selections for the main course include grilled beef tenderloin/sole-shrimp-scallop combination over rice/whole wheat penne pasta. Orders were taken soon after take-off, and was followed thereafter by a drink service. While the awesome cabin crew was well meaning, she produced one of the worst Bloody Mary’s I have had in recent memory … just way watered down and I don’t think she used tomato juice . C’est la vie! After the attendant set my table (I struggled to get the table going), the service began with a pretty good smoked salmon in vodka with red onion etc. I found it a tad tacky (and rushed) that the post dinner cheese and dessert were placed with the appetizer – though the dessert of Breton vanilla biscuit with raspberry pureé was excellent indeed. My main course turned out to be really good as well – though, the quality of the saffron sauce was dubious.
I don’t know if water and other runs were made after the dinner service as I pretty much crashed and fell asleep somewhere over Florida, and only woke up to the gentle touch of my flight attendant. She brought me a hot towel and asked if I was ready for breakfast. Oh boy was I! There were two options (weirdly, less than Air India’s 3 options in Y class), and I chose the rather good scrambled eggs ranchero. Not bad at all.
During the flight, one had access to a decent selection of beverages – including champagne (no choice), red wine (3), white wine (3), port (1), and a rather limited collection of spirits. Of course, being part of the Commonwealth, the tea selection would have made Queen VII happy.
(Menu Options)
(Post take off drinks; the space to keep the drink was narrow and cramped)
(Dinner – weird how dessert is served with appetizer)
(Breakfast)
d) Inflight Entertainment:
First of all, all airlines need to go to Air India to see what kind of headphones are needed. AI’s Y class headphones were better than the crap given onboard AC. Thankfully, the actual system was pretty good … and featured a decent collection of movies, games, television shows, etc. I did find it hilarious that only the movies and TV worked and smiled when the crew came on the PA to say, “please only chose movies or television; everything else will result in the IFE freezing.” I had seen most of the movies, so ended up watching some lame Italian movie about a road trip to Morocco with more clichés than the worst Hollywood movie. Added to this, a good in-flight magazine and you really have no reason to complain about the standard of service.
(Poor headphones)
(Find product placement in premium cabin a tad tacky)
(Bad Italian movie)
(“In-flight magazines”, Boarding Passes – from the return flight, etc.)
e) Crew:
I have had a mixed bag of luck with AC crew in the past. My J crew on the ICN-YYZ flight in the end of 2006 (Read report here) had the most lame crew and had scored a 5.0 on my scale; a few months earlier, on a Y segment between YYZ and YVR (Read report here), the crew led by a fantastic Mr. Meghji had scored a 9.0 on my scale.
Thankfully, the crew on this flight was more of the later. First off, the purser came and introduced himself after take-off and asked how the flight was prior to arrival. Great touches, but it seemed disingenuous and a little staged. However, the flight attendant “assigned” to me, Ms. DeXXX M was absolutely fantastic! She clearly enjoyed her job, had panache, and came and asked me several times if things were OK and if I needed anything else. More importantly, she knew of AC’s history and where it was headed – two things that are very crucial towards making an attendant good. I was impressed with her commitment and her overall positive attitude. Now only if she could make her energy rub off on the bitter colleagues I had on my ICN-YYZ flight!
IV> Post-Flight:
Arrival @ SCL is a breeze, and I spent very little time at immigration and customs. Bags arrived rather promptly and within 30 minutes, I was en-route to my friend’s house.
(Parked next to an IB 343)
(Baggage Claim @ SCL)
V> Impressions + Scores:
My experience on AC 092 was VASTLY superior than the past experiences I have had in prior ultra long haul intercontinental flights with them. The new J class seats are an absolute delight, and the entire cabin is soothing and inviting. Everything from the airport experience (lounges particularly) to meals to IFE to crew has been upgraded and the hard-work is clearly evident in all areas. I was particularly impressed by the crew (especially one) who were such a different breed than the trans-Pacific crew on AC. The challenge for AC is now to elevate its service from a good airline to a great airline. For this to happen, small things need to be fixed. As excellent as the service is, it is the attention to detail that separates the “women from the girls.” The poor cleaning @ YYZ, meal service presentation rushes, beverage service not being at par, a disingenuous purser, poor headphones, and IFE that does not really work all throughout are small things that take away from an overall excellent product.
Air Canada has come a long way. Now it is the duty of AC management to truly take the airline to the next level and reflect the ambitions of a progressive forward looking country. I have absolutely no reservations in recommending AC based on this flight, and given a choice, I would probably pick them over the competition (at least in Latin America) again.
1.0 > RESERVATION: 8.0
2.0 > CHECK-IN: 9.0
0.5 > LOUNGE: 8.0
0.5 > BOARDING: 8.0
2.0 > SEAT: 9.0
0.5 > AIRCRAFT OVERALL AMBIENCE: 10.0
1.0 > IFE: 7.5
2.0 > CREW: 9.0
2.0 > FOOD: 8.0
0.5 > BEVERAGES: 7.0
0.5 > A.KITS + OTHER FREEBIES: 8.0
0.5 > DISEMBARKATION: 9.0
1.0 > ON-TIME RECORD: 10.0 WEIGHTED OVERALL IMPRESSION (WOI): 8.61 – NEW BEST FOR PREMIUM CABIN
(Pre-flight WOI of all reviews: 6.44)
* Weighted Overall Impression (WOI) aligns scores with what matters most. Weights are indicated alongside each category.
(Scores are based on comparison with other airlines in THAT class of service – No comparison of Y vs. F for example)
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 16801 posts, RR: 53 Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 20933 times:
Hi there nice TR. Good pics. I'm still not convinced that I like the AC new product. Only time will tell. I have heard some people find it a bit closed in but I guess everyone is different.
OA260
Olympic Air "Η Ελλάδα ψηλά" - ''Flying Greece Sky High''
Airbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 1924 posts, RR: 19 Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20744 times:
Hi
good report, nice pics of the most important issues around the flight
Although, this AC product seems not getting me in, for some reason. The cabin lay-out is just 'not my style'. Of course, I won't complain, but I feel that some other companies offer a better product to serve my personal needs
Flying is finished for 2009. In 2010: I booked to secure the Q400 on a new route from LCY, for January...
Jpyvr From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 70 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 20458 times:
You mention that the Bloody Mary the FA served you seemed watered down, and that you didn't like it. I'm wondering if you received not a Bloody Mary, but a Bloody Caesar, which for some reason is extremely popular in Canada - practically the national cocktail I would say. Instead of being made with tomato juice or Bloody Mary mix, it's made with Clamato juice and vodka - Clamato juice being a mixture of tomato and clam juices. Clamato juice is much thinner than tomato juice, which can be quite thick and pulpy. It isn't short on flavour, however, and I have come to prefer a Bloody Caesar to a Bloody Mary. Perhaps it was the strangeness of the juice and the fact that you were expecting something else that caused you to call it the worst Bloody Mary you had ever had.
Thanks for the TR - I'm flying J class in September YYZ-GRU, and hope I have as good as experience as you did.
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 25 Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 20409 times:
First off, thanks for reading. I am waiting for my early morning flight to SXM. Any A.Netters @ SXM?
Quoting Mk777 (Reply 2): Would like to have seen more pics from the SCL terminal.
= You will get them very soon . I have some more TR's involving SCL airport.
Quoting OA260 (Reply 3): I'm still not convinced that I like the AC new product. Only time will tell. I have heard some people find it a bit closed in but I guess everyone is different.
= As I remarked, there are things I do not like. One of them, is the lack of space for putting stuff ... however, I would totally live with that "discomfort" for a flat bed.
Quoting Ojas (Reply 4): Did you peep in the Y class by any chance? how were the loads?
= Around 65%.
Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 5): Although, this AC product seems not getting me in, for some reason. The cabin lay-out is just 'not my style'. Of course, I won't complain, but I feel that some other companies offer a better product to serve my personal needs
= There are better J class products out there for sure. NH, SQ, 9W, EK, EY, JL IMO all offer better products. However, AC's J is a zillion miles ahead of its own previous J, and definitely better than the "wanna-bee" sleeper seats that you see on many airlines ... you know, the whole slanted 170 degree crap.
Quoting Jpyvr (Reply 6): Perhaps it was the strangeness of the juice and the fact that you were expecting something else that caused you to call it the worst Bloody Mary you had ever had.
= But, I did ask for a Bloody Mary . Anyways, good to know. Now I can impress my Cannuck friends.
Mack8994 From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 53 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 19947 times:
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): J load was less than 20% … making me think that the flight did not make money
I take this flight every month... I've noticed that the load factors depend on the day of the week. The flights on Sat and Sun are usually packed and many passengers looking for an upgrade, get denied.
By the way, great trip report. You beat me to it... I'm basically too lazy to get the trip report written when I take this flight.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): Post take off drinks; the space to keep the drink was narrow and cramped
I agree. I'm always nervous that I am going to spill my beer (Heineken...always!)
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): I don’t know if water and other runs were made after the dinner service as I pretty much crashed and fell asleep somewhere over Florida
Actually they do. A FA usually goes around with water and offering to those passengers that are awake. If you ask, they can also bring you juice... I have noticed that on some flights they do keep a basket of snacks in the galley.
9W748Capt From United States, joined Feb 2008, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 19781 times:
Muy bien, senor Abrelosojos! You continue to write the book on TRs! Glad you had a good experience with AC this time, service looked very good indeed, save for the leftover alcohol stirrer. Thanks for sharing, as usual!
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 25 Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18992 times:
Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 12): This is the best TR I've seen for the new AC J product, others have nogt been so kid, however catering and staff do vary from flight to flight.
Still not sure about the cabin layout, though the A side seems better as you don't face anyone.
= You know what has been so funny about this TR ... usually I am pretty strict with my scoring, and people usually agree with it. However, this is one TR which scored my highest ever for J, and all of y'all have been up the wazoo criticizing AC. Interestingly, my previous J experience with AC on ULH was mediocre at best.
Jamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 312 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18856 times:
Thanks for taking the time to contribute another detailed and well written TR.
I had my fingers crossed for an XM's 767 from YEG - LHR last year, but was just too earlier to get one. Like your previous flight, I also found the food service to be pretty poor in J, but I can't tell whether you've sampled some improvements or whether I just experienced the output from a station that only had one daily l/h flight to cater for.
Vivekman2006 From India, joined May 2006, 354 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 18606 times:
Very nice, detailed and well written trip report!
From your experience, would the port-side window seat be better (in terms of privacy/exclusivity) as compared to the starboard-side window seat in a Herringbone design?
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 25 Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 18488 times:
Quoting Vivekman2006 (Reply 15): From your experience, would the port-side window seat be better (in terms of privacy/exclusivity) as compared to the starboard-side window seat in a Herringbone design?
- Vivek
= I prefer the port-side window because I prefer looking at the "wall" of the middle-seats than the view from the star-board side where you have the view of the persons legs.
Kurt From United States, joined Oct 2001, 248 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5501 times:
We are booked in C DEN-YYZ-(SCL)-EZE (6 nights), EZE-SCL (3 nights) and SCL-YYZ-DEN early next month on this flight and your report is really excellent. I'm looking forward to the trip, which I booked about 10 months ago using UA MP miles (only 80K per ticket, it's gone up since). It finally seems like the trip is coming near. Whoo-hoo!
Directorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 952 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5373 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
Great TR, thanks for sharing. As always-great pics. AC certainly did do a good job with the new layout, and doesn't seem as claustrophobic as CX's.
Regards,
DG
JAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 2905 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5087 times:
You baggage tag indicates you flew from BOS to YYZ and then onto SCL. How did you find the connection experience through YYZ? I'm surprised you were on the departures level (pre-security) despite connecting from a transborder flight. I would have thought they have you stay on the secure side if you are connecting?
I'll take 100 litres a side AVGAS with Prist - C172 pilot
RP TPA From United States, joined Oct 1999, 611 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4727 times:
Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 19): You baggage tag indicates you flew from BOS to YYZ and then onto SCL. How did you find the connection experience through YYZ? I'm surprised you were on the departures level (pre-security) despite connecting from a transborder flight. I would have thought they have you stay on the secure side if you are connecting?
It looks like for whatever reason Abrelosojos took AC355 BOS-YYZ, which is the first flight of the day (departs 0610). Pretty good reason to avoid the shortcut (which would have kept him "in transit" for approx 15 hours), and instead clear normal immigration and customs which allows him to enter the public area. That way, he can leave the airport if he wants.
AY104 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 442 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3845 times:
Thanks for a great, informative TR.
For some reason, when I saw your pics of the meals, it occurred to me that all the AC Bus Class meals remind me of the economy class meals served years ago, in the 60s, 70s and 80s. From what I can see and read in all the AC TR's, the AC catering in Bus is not very inspiring at all.
Cheers,
Carl
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 25 Reply 22, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3824 times:
Funny how this report is generating comments now ... I had to think a while back .
Quoting Kurt (Reply 17): We are booked in C DEN-YYZ-(SCL)-EZE (6 nights), EZE-SCL (3 nights) and SCL-YYZ-DEN early next month on this flight and your report is really excellent. I'm looking forward to the trip, which I booked about 10 months ago using UA MP miles (only 80K per ticket, it's gone up since). It finally seems like the trip is coming near. Whoo-hoo!
= Wish you a happy trip!
Quoting Directorguy (Reply 18): AC certainly did do a good job with the new layout, and doesn't seem as claustrophobic as CX's.
= Yes. AC's layout is significantly better than CX's.
Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 19): You baggage tag indicates you flew from BOS to YYZ and then onto SCL. How did you find the connection experience through YYZ? I'm surprised you were on the departures level (pre-security) despite connecting from a transborder flight. I would have thought they have you stay on the secure side if you are connecting?
Quoting RP TPA (Reply 20): It looks like for whatever reason Abrelosojos took AC355 BOS-YYZ, which is the first flight of the day (departs 0610). Pretty good reason to avoid the shortcut (which would have kept him "in transit" for approx 15 hours), and instead clear normal immigration and customs which allows him to enter the public area. That way, he can leave the airport if he wants.
= Y'all have an eye for detail! I went to YYZ for the day to have some fun with someone ... hehe ... and then take the evening flight to SCL.
Quoting AY104 (Reply 21): For some reason, when I saw your pics of the meals, it occurred to me that all the AC Bus Class meals remind me of the economy class meals served years ago, in the 60s, 70s and 80s. From what I can see and read in all the AC TR's, the AC catering in Bus is not very inspiring at all.
PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 3153 posts, RR: 71 Reply 23, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2253 times:
Hi A.,
stunning report as usual, enjoyed reading a lot.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): I entered the immaculate 763 and was immediately struck by the blue mood lighting. It looked really pleasant.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): The interior is spotless and well-maintained and the blue hue was extremely pleasant to the eye.
Yes, the new interiors on these relatively old birds are impressive. At least you could enjoy the blue light. On our FRA-YYC sector in May the light tones were changing all the time, from red to orange to green...only in Y class, of course.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): I did find it hilarious that only the movies and TV worked and smiled when the crew came on the PA to say, “please only chose movies or television; everything else will result in the IFE freezing.”
Welcome to the airline which is unable to fix its IFE problems...
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From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 3178 posts, 
. C’est la vie! After the attendant set my table (I struggled to get the table going), the service began with a pretty good smoked salmon in vodka with red onion etc. I found it a tad tacky (and rushed) that the post dinner cheese and dessert were placed with the appetizer – though the dessert of Breton vanilla biscuit with raspberry pureé was excellent indeed. My main course turned out to be really good as well – though, the quality of the saffron sauce was dubious. 
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