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KLM 777-300 'new' Business Class (DXB-AMS) & Pix  
User currently offlineHenkybaby From Netherlands, joined May 2008, 593 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 32767 times:

Route: DXBAMS
Airline: KLM
Aircraft: 777-300
Cabin: (New) Business Class
Seat: 4J
Departure: 00:10 (actual 00:40)
Arrival: 05:30 (actual 05:00)
Lounge: KLM Crown Lounge DXB

I wasn’t really sorry to leave Dubai. Not my city. I was dreading the trip to the airport since I had heard horror stories about the traffic. Luckily it all went very smoothly and I was dropped off at 22:00, 135 minutes before departure. Ample time to look around and try the lounge. Or so I thought.

Dubai has a ‘somewhat stringent’ security process. Before clearing passport control you and your bags are checked a minimum of 4 times. My bags where scanned twice and I went through a metal detector twice. My passport was checked twice as was my boarding pass. This was of course before I got to the gate where my passport would be checked twice again.

This all sounds like a lot but in fact it all went rather smoothly. I passed passport control about 30 minutes after I was dropped off. The walk to the terminal is a long one. It took at least 20 minutes. Well, who can mind a little exercise? It was eating into my quality lounge time.

All in all I arrived at the terminal at 22:50. I asked an employee where to find the KLM lounge and was told to look for it near gate 18. I read and heard terrible stories about DXB. You would have to jump over sleeping people. It would look like a Delhi market. I would need to hold my nose the entire time and so on. Well, maybe I was lucky, but it wasn’t that bad actually. Not on the way in (arrival 05:10) nor at this time. Mind you, summer time is the quiet time in Dubai, so that may have had a lot to do with it. I looked around a bit for cheap bargains but could not really find any, so I proceeded to the lounge. Took another 15 minutes.

The area around Gate 18


First I went into the AF lounge to have a look around. The lady there friendly but decisively pointed out I should really use the KLM lounge. “No, no pictures, please use KLM lounge.” Ok, ok, don’t get your panties in a twist. Not wishing to cause a seizure in this well intending woman I proceeded to the KLM Crown lounge. After my experience with the KLM lounge at Schiphol I was hoping that KLM would revenge itself.

Entry to KLM Crown Lounge near Gate 18


I was impressed. It is very small but with only 2 planes a day what do you expect? The seating was nice, the food selection perfectly adequate (and fantastic compared to the lounge at AMS) and the attendants very friendly. I soon found a seat and took out my camera to take some pictures.

The entrance from the other side


Overview of the small but charming lounge


Seating and look at the nice architectural features


Since the lounge was so small and intimate I did not want to start snapping away to much, but I think these pictures give a nice impression. They also have free wireless. Oddly enough this internet access is less restricted than most of Dubai. I really hate it when a government decides what I can and cannot watch or read. One of my greatest annoyances with Dubai.

I spent a nice half hour at the lounge when at 23:40 we were urged to go to the gate because the flight was already boarding. We left from gate 9, a 5 minute walk from the lounge.

Gate 9


When we got there the flight was anything but boarding. There was a long cue for (another) security check and no priority line. We were told by the staff to just cut in line. It was busy and the flight was 100% full, or so I was told.



In fact, the load factor in C was 80%. At least it was until they moved two women in burka’s and 1 screaming child into business class. Are you kidding me? Of all the people to upgrade you choose a screaming child? Not only that, but apparently they were travelling with 5 nannies who constantly came walking in from Y. That all stopped after take off (yes, also the screaming), but still.

But I am getting ahead of myself. When I looked out the window I noticed we all got upgraded. KLM used the 777-300 for this flight today. I was finally going to sample their ‘new’ business class product. Since I hate(d) the old one I was expecting a very comfortable journey.

The 777-300 waiting for us at the gate


Boarding was chaotic. Soon after the small children call was made everybody started pushing and shoving. What is it with Indians and cues? But hey, what do I care? I was going to fly the new business class!

The minute I walked in I was hugely disappointed. The cabin feels much more cramped. Sure, it is nice to see KLM using a product that belongs in this century, but did they cramp more seats into the cabin? No, still only 5 rows.

Storage


The shell design makes for a couple of issues. The top end protrudes into the space of the passenger behind, so that you have very little maneuvering space, especially when there is a larger person beside you. Getting in and out is difficult even with the seats in the upright position. It feels very cramped. Now that is the only bad thing. The loss of the sensation of space you have in the ‘old’ c-class. I flew AF a couple of times and even though these are the same seats they feel more cramped with KLM. Does anybody know if KLM has put them closer together?

Compare:
OLD

The NEW 777-300 Cabin


Now for the good part. First thing you notice is the large screen in front of you. That view is certainly better than in the old one. I did not get to use the IFE much, since I slept like a baby, but the view from your seat is certainly more 2008. It is just a lot closer than before.

OLD view

NEW view


The seat itself is very comfortable. At least for an angled lie-flat. The cover is less slippery than the older KLM seats and it seems to go just a little flatter. It also has better storage in the seat itself. Less storage around you. You cannot put a bag in front of you on the floor.

One danger is that when you go from flat to upright the chair ‘eats your shoes’ if you took them off and left them in front of you. They get lost when the leg rest sweeps over the floor when folding in.  

My seat: 4J


The last row


The seat controls


Another thing I never saw before was the way the seatbelt was attached to the seat. Picture taken with night view.


As I said, I slept though most of the short flight. I did eat my late night snack. It was tasty, but cannot remember what it was exactly. Some kind of sate I guess. I also had breakfast. Tasteless eggs with rather nice assortment of fruits and stuff. I really am not a fan of eating in the sky like some of you…  

After breakfast


The flight was 1 hour shorter than advertised. Too short for a good night sleep, so I was cranky and tired when we approached AMS. I hate these short night flights.

The stats


The very detailed flight tracker.


Touchdown was around 05:00 at the infamous Polderbaan. Normally this leads to a 10 minute taxi at speed but not this time. I guess there was a cyclist in front of us because I never taxied so slowly before ever… Was the captain impressed with his shiny new plane? Did he let the cute stewardess drive? Was he deliberately slow because we were early and the gate was not ready yet? It took 20 minutes and remember: I was tired and cranky…  

I was the first of the plane and it took me 15 minutes to exit the airport. 7 minute bus ride, got the car and went home.

My verdict:
The new seat is a lot more comfortable. The cabin feels very cramped however, so I am not sure I prefer the new to the old. Push comes to shove I dislike any angled lie-flat anyhow.

The new product puts KLM more in line with AF for instance, but not yet in the same ballpark with BA. KLM staff will however always be the best in the sky and not in the overly subservient way oriental airlines staff is. Good work KLM!

(And it is always nice to put two new Delft Blue houses on the shelf.)

Feedback always appreciated!

[Edited 2008-07-29 04:31:50]


Wherever you go, there you are!
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGlobetraveller From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 379 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 32767 times:

Yet another interesting trip report. Thank you Henkybaby.

Quoting Henkybaby (Thread starter):
When we got there the flight was anything but boarding.

I hate when this happens, but it seems to be a common occurance! Why don't they actually go to check at the gate to make sure?

Quoting Henkybaby (Thread starter):
Of all the people to upgrade you choose a screaming child?

Hehehe. That is really odd. Did you ask?

Quoting Henkybaby (Thread starter):
It took 20 minutes and remember: I was tired and cranky…

Maybe someone really had it out for you. At least there were no queues at the airport.

Once again, your reports are always a nice read.

Globetraveller


User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5124 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Wait a minute, KLM upgraded their old J class seat to another angled flat? I am confused. This looks like the regular J class seats they have no (sort of the ones on NWA WBC?).

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineFlpuck6 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2123 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Hi,

Thank you for your reports.

I had seen a few images of the "adpoted" new J-class seats on KLM before but not of the video screens ... they are bigger/wider than those of AF, which is nice !



Bonjour Chef!
User currently offlineHenkybaby From Netherlands, joined May 2008, 593 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 2):
Wait a minute, KLM upgraded their old J class seat to another angled flat? I am confused. This looks like the regular J class seats they have no (sort of the ones on NWA WBC?).

This is the 'new' J class for KLM (or the present J class for AF). The difference between the 'new' and the 'old' style seat is illustrated in the pictures and the report.

I do not know if this is an 'inbetween solution', but I doubt it.



Wherever you go, there you are!
User currently offlineFlpuck6 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2123 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

It's just more proof of the "synergies" between AF-KLM.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 4):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 2):
Wait a minute, KLM upgraded their old J class seat to another angled flat? I am confused. This looks like the regular J class seats they have no (sort of the ones on NWA WBC?).

This is the 'new' J class for KLM (or the present J class for AF). The difference between the 'new' and the 'old' style seat is illustrated in the pictures and the report.

I do not know if this is an 'inbetween solution', but I doubt it.




Bonjour Chef!
User currently offlineBentley55 From Panama, joined Mar 2008, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Henkybaby (Thread starter):
What is it with Indians and cues?

I think this comment is disrespectful to Indians.

Indians are not the only people who rush to board a plane even before they are called. I have travelled extensively in North America, Latin America, Europe, and Asia and not only Indians do this. On my last trip, which was in Amsterdam on a AMS-PTY flight, there were NO Indians on the flight but there was still a huge crowd of people swarming to board the plane and not respecting/forming a line (most of them Dutch).


User currently offlineHenkybaby From Netherlands, joined May 2008, 593 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Bentley55 (Reply 6):
I think this comment is disrespectful to Indians.

Lighten up.  Smile Disrespect is in the eye of the beholder I guess. It is called projection. You cannot guess the intend with which it is written, so you substitute your experience for mine. Not wise.

Besides, I have worked in India for half a year and if you ever have taken a plane or train there you would know what I mean. Indians and cues... It is a phenomenon. No offense meant and so no need to defend them.



Wherever you go, there you are!
User currently offlineTonyban From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 7):

Lighten up. Disrespect is in the eye of the beholder I guess. It is called projection. You cannot guess the intend with which it is written, so you substitute your experience for mine. Not wise.

Besides, I have worked in India for half a year and if you ever have taken a plane or train there you would know what I mean. Indians and cues... It is a phenomenon. No offense meant and so no need to defend them.

How do you know they were Indians ? They may have been dark skinned Dutch folks !!


User currently offlineBentley55 From Panama, joined Mar 2008, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 7):
Lighten up. Disrespect is in the eye of the beholder I guess. It is called projection. You cannot guess the intend with which it is written, so you substitute your experience for mine. Not wise.

Besides, I have worked in India for half a year and if you ever have taken a plane or train there you would know what I mean. Indians and cues... It is a phenomenon. No offense meant and so no need to defend them.

I am defending "them" because I am Indian. I do not need to guess the intent with which you wrote it because just reading the comment is offensive and degrading to me. I am confident that you did not intend it to be like that, unfortunately, that is how it comes across.

I have lived in India and flown all over the country and all over the world, and we Indians are not the only kind who rush to board a plane nor do we represent a "phenomenon" with lines. Globally, it is human nature and I am sure that not just Indian citizens were rushing to board the plane that day, I assume that there were also Europeans doing the same thing.

You seem to be an experienced world traveller and I am sure that your travels have shown you that citizens from all parts of the world do the same thing, therefore I humbly feel that it is not necessary to single out us Indians when everyone else does the same thing.


User currently offlineHenkybaby From Netherlands, joined May 2008, 593 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Again: lighten up!

It is a trip report, not a discussion on your feelings. I cannot control what you find offensive nor do I plan to take everyones sensitivities into account. You will have to take my intentions on face value.

And every nation has its particularities. The Germans are organized, the English are stiff, the Irish are merry, the Dutch are blunt (QED) etc. If everybody would take offense it would become very tiring. Lets drop it.



Wherever you go, there you are!
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17689 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Bentley55 (Reply 6):
Indians are not the only people who rush to board a plane even before they are called.

Of course not, that's why it's called the Indo-Afro-Latino boarding process Smile



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5124 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
Of course not, that's why it's called the Indo-Afro-Latino boarding process Smile

= Hey, I came up with that! And actually, having traveled extensively, I can say unequivocally that the worst "offenders" are flights to Portugal out of Newark.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 7):

Quoting Bentley55 (Reply 6):
I think this comment is disrespectful to Indians.

Lighten up. Smile Disrespect is in the eye of the beholder I guess. It is called projection. You cannot guess the intend with which it is written, so you substitute your experience for mine. Not wise.

Besides, I have worked in India for half a year and if you ever have taken a plane or train there you would know what I mean. Indians and cues... It is a phenomenon. No offense meant and so no need to defend them.

= You are both right ... I mean, it is a fact that Indians/Latinos/Portuguese flying to LIS from EWR are all pushy ... but then again, when "judged" by westerners (and you are making a judgment call) it is using a benchmark that is yours ... and I can see how that can be construed as insensitive.

Anyways, back to aviation ...

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 4):
This is the 'new' J class for KLM (or the present J class for AF). The difference between the 'new' and the 'old' style seat is illustrated in the pictures and the report.

I do not know if this is an 'inbetween solution', but I doubt it.

= If that is the new "J", then the lack of investment by AF into KL is even worse than I thought. Pity really as KL has always been such a great airline. Why go through a cabin overhaul and not get a full-flat seats? For a major world airline, it is inexcusable!

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8564 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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Nice report and pictures, thanks for the return trip.

Quoting Henkybaby (Thread starter):
the load factor in C was 80%. At least it was until they moved two women in burka%u2019s and 1 screaming child into business class. Are you kidding me? Of all the people to upgrade you choose a screaming child?

- Why oh why??

Your 2 J reports miss many details, mainly meals/service as yoU were sleeping,that aside, I'm still not impressed enough to want to fly KL.

I really dislike the 2-3-2 layour for J, not impressive!

Regards

Mark



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineHenkybaby From Netherlands, joined May 2008, 593 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 13):
Your 2 J reports miss many details, mainly meals/service as yoU were sleeping

The main reason for flying J or F is to be able to sleep. In a sense you could say that this omission speaks in the favour of the airline.

As far as I'm concerned, all airline food is yucky compared to eating on sea level. I am sure you know the problem with losing taste at altitude. That being said KLM is not much for presentation or choice. If you want the restaurant in the sky feeling you will have to pay the 35% more for your ticket and fly BA.

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 13):
I'm still not impressed enough to want to fly KL.

It always surprises me that nobody here factors in the $$$$. That means that you judge a service you will probably never use anyway or that you do not care about money. The price difference between BA (as a representative of the flatbed carriers) and KLM is huge. About a thousand euro on a trans Atlantic flight. That is 35%. KLM chose to compete on price, not on cabin comfort. You do not compare a Mercedes with a Ford Focus now, do you?

For their price level KLM offers a very nice, albeit not perfect, business class product. They are not my first choice when price is not an issue (client paying or RTW travel) but they are when the buck comes from my wallet. Also their frequent flyer program has interesting miles deals to many of my favourite destinations. Where else can you fly J return AMS-DXB for 30K miles?

So stop comparing apples and oranges.

And again: KL has the best flight crew in the world, unless you like the subservient SQ style attendants. For me, I like that they are young, happy, talkative and down to earth.



Wherever you go, there you are!
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5875 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 13):
I really dislike the 2-3-2 layour for J, not impressive!

I noticed the same thing.
It's interesting to note how quickly the Europeans are to talk about how terrible our US airlines are, yet my Continental has 2-2-2 biz class in 777s, while it turns out that the formidable AF-KL group has 2-3-2.
That's 747 seats in a narrower airplane, folks!

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 14):
KL has the best flight crew in the world,

Agreed..... so far.


User currently offlineMilesDependent From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 857 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 32767 times:

Great trip report!

I agree with your comments that have ruffled some feathers, I think most people do. But let's not open that can of worms.

Oh yeah, by the way:
Cue = A long tapered rod with a leather tip used to strike the cue ball in billiards and pool.
Queue = A line of people

 Big grin


User currently offlineHenkybaby From Netherlands, joined May 2008, 593 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

And you did not get I was talking about their amazing pool skills? Big grin


Wherever you go, there you are!
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5124 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 14):
And again: KL has the best flight crew in the world, unless you like the subservient SQ style attendants. For me, I like that they are young, happy, talkative and down to earth.

= ... see again you show your cultural bias in evaluating someone ... I really do not find SQ attendants "subservient" ready and willing to do anything for their masters. In fact, I personally find the choice of word super condescending. But again, to each their own  Wink.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17689 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 12):
Hey, I came up with that!

My bad Smile



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineHenkybaby From Netherlands, joined May 2008, 593 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 18):
I personally find the choice of word super condescending

Do you scan everything on things you can interpret as condescending?

Again: subservient is meant as a characteristic, not a judgement. They are more... what is a better word... quiet and stylish? I dunno. I find people who put salt on everything tiring. (Oh God, am I doing it again?  Wink)



Wherever you go, there you are!
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7416 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (6 years 3 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Henkybaby (Thread starter):
The new product puts KLM more in line with AF for instance

Those seats are the AF last generation Buiness Class seats .


User currently offlineTonyban From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 10):
Again: lighten up!

It is a trip report, not a discussion on your feelings. I cannot control what you find offensive nor do I plan to take everyone's sensitivities into account. You will have to take my intentions on face value.

Good TR ! I also believe that by posting this report with those comments, you open yourself up to scrutiny and debate thus giving others the right to criticize you. Having been to India many times myself, I've witnessed first hand the monumental task of moving a billion folks everyday.
The strongest wins. You have to push and bulldoze your way for just about everything in India, so the same applies when it comes to boarding an aeroplane. It's the norm !


User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4275 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Hi,

I really like your latest series of TR's here, also both KL legs to/from DXB.

Looking at this new WBC seats; I like them more when it comes to style. The screen in front of you is much better. On the other side; less space for personal stuff and to move around, it seems. I really won't like to be sitting in a middle seat (of the 3 seaters) for a long time. When your neighbours are in sleeping position, how on earth do you get out  Silly

About Dubai, the city doesn't really attract me neither. But, when it comes to design at the airport, it seems just beautiful! Everything shiny and in luxury.

Cheers,
Eric



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineConrad1402 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Hi Henkybaby,

Excellent trip report! I just got back today flying World Business Class from Dubai. Shame you never really liked Dubai. Did you try the beaches? They might change your mind. I guess it's not for everyone though. I'm just sorting out the pics for my trip report. Sadly I was on the 777-200ER, with the old(er) seats.

Gotta agree with you though, the KLM service is world-class.

Great work! Please give me some honest feedback on my report when posted!

conrad1402


25 Post contains links and images Henkybaby : I stayed in the Royal Meridien, so yes. What I do like is the Buddha Bar in the Grosvenor house... It is very true that (watch out guys, here comes a
26 Kiramakora : LOL. In one thread, you have managed to insult and generalize the Indians (pushy fierce line movers), Asians (subservient), Russians (gold-diggers),
27 Henkybaby : No, no, you got it wrong. The Russians are not the gold diggers. The gold diggers are mostly European girls. The Russians are pro's (don't need to ex
28 Conrad1402 : I gotta agree with everything you just said. Dubai is the perfect spot to watch the riches of each cultures come together. It's completely centred aro
29 Post contains images Henkybaby : We did go to the Skyview bar a couple of times (my friend works for the owners of some of the hotels, including the Burj AA). I thought it is a little
30 Tonyban : You seem to have a thing for Indians. You know the Miss. India contestants have won some 6-7 titles from the Miss. World and Miss. Universe pagents i
31 Henkybaby : Indeed! I made some great friends there. I love them. Love the food, love the friendliness. Cant wait to go back! Really, you guys need to realize wh
32 Jonjonnl : Funny you say that. I can always recognise the gate of my flight to Lisbon (from AMS) by the fact that instead of being sitting down, everybody's alr
33 Henkybaby : Thanks! I love writing TRs. I even look forward to making them when I am flying. It sort of adds a purpose to travelling and makes you more aware of t
34 Post contains links Jonjonnl : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuvqQ32IKh4 She sings "remember that wherever you go there you are". Check 2:30. Groetjes J.-j.
35 Mindscape : Nice TR, and had fun reading the comments so far... Chill out ! yes AF-KL is investing in upgrading their products. Both KL and AF have never been lea
36 Jonjonnl : I think that the "problem" with KL lies in the Dutch sober view of life: our seats are comfortable so why should we add all the bells and whistles ot
37 Henkybaby : I strongly disagree. First of all our outlook is not sober, it is down to earth. Second of all I always find the attention I get on board to be more p
38 Jonjonnl : Sober is more or less a synonym of down-to-earth/no-nonsense/pragmatic/conventional. This is exactly what I meant with it. Don't get me wrong. I have
39 Conrad1402 : I have to agree with you there. Furthermore, the inflight entertainment on KLM (this includes the FAs) is far more pleasing to the eye, when compared
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SIA New Business Class 777-300ER Part Deux! posted Tue Sep 4 2007 18:12:11 by Ryanair!!!
SIA New Business Class 777-300ER Pt 1 posted Mon Sep 3 2007 10:00:24 by Ryanair!!!
Cathay Pacific New Business Class - CX 888 HKG-YVR posted Tue Jul 19 2011 23:24:23 by fjiii
Cathay Pacific New Business Class Experience posted Wed Jul 13 2011 04:48:05 by N178UA
Fully Flat Bed To SFO: SWISS' New Business Class posted Sat May 7 2011 11:47:59 by PlaneHunter

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