I had been on a tough away assignment for 3 months and earned a well deserved break by the time the engagement was over and June had rolled in. Instead of going back to Caracas directly, I decided to visit a few random places I had not been to in a while. After a trip to Chile, I decided to visit some friends in one of my favorite cities … Barcelona. I had a few choices from Santiago, but decided to fly via GRU and have a café with my best friend Gustavo.
A quick search on A.Net tells me that this is the first report on Swiss J class on the 5th freedom SCL-GRU flight.
II > Pre-Flight:
a) Before Airport:
Just in case there are people who read A.Net and do not know about Swiss International Airlines. It is the main carrier out of Switzerland and serves the world from its Zurich hub. It was formed in 2001 after the bankruptcy of Swissair and is now a subsidiary of Lufthansa. Out of its efficient Zurich hub, Swiss flies around the globe including a daily service to Santiago via Sao Paulo.
Ticketing for the flight was done on the extremely well designed and easy to use Swiss website at www.swiss.com. While you are able to view your booking later and do modifications, I was not pleased that seat selections cannot be done online. However, I was able to do the same calling their number in Santiago.
b) At Airport:
Unlike my previous visit to SCL which turned out to be full of drama, this was a relatively quiet visit with a smooth check-in at the specially designated J class counter. What I found interesting is that there was a separate counter for F class which could be used by Star Gold Members. Now, why allow Star Golds? Besides, are not most J class passengers Star Gold anyways? Anyways, I digress. So in a matter of minutes, I had my boarding pass and lounge invitation (what a waste of paper) and was en-route through a quick security and immigration to the boarding gates.
Since I had around 30 minutes to spare, I walked all the way to the end of the terminal to the American Airlines Admirals Club which is used by LX. It is a small rather dingy lounge (with a surly German speaking manager), but had basic food and beverages and computer terminals with internet access. After a quick email check and some café, final boarding for the Swiss flight was called and I made my way to the gate.
By the time I arrived, most of the flight had boarded and I made my way to my seat 4K. Upon entering the cabin, I felt very much part of the clean IKEA look that you find at Scandinavian airports … faux wood and overall extremely minimalist. I was soon greeted by the lead flight attendant who took my jacket away and offered me a choice of drink … and I chose champagne.
A gentleman from Holland came by and sat in seat 4A … apparently, he was a Y ticketed passenger and wanted to take pictures of the Andes, and the view was better from the J cabin. The crew politely asked him to leave. After several requests, he got very agitated and started hurling abuses at the Swiss crew and saying how “this would never happen at KLM” and that the Swiss crew was “German Nazis”! At this point, I had enough and went to the crew standing around him and said that if he was not off-loaded, I was calling my ministry contacts in Chile to have him put behind bars. Jaja. Of course, the entire thing was a lie. The man muttered something in Dutch and went back to the Y cabin. The crew and I shared a joke about it later … but seriously, some people!
J class load was a dismal 10%. F class load was 0%, and Y was 40%.
Airport - External:
(Santiago Airport)
Check-in:
Airport - Internal:
(Pre-Security)
(RG Ad … wonder how long the Varig name will survive)
(Post-Security)
Scenes of the tarmac:
NONE
Lounge
(Invitation)
(AA Admirals Club)
Boarding:
(Boarding called)
III> In-Flight:
a) Service Schedule + Impressions:
Drink service while on ground along with newspaper trolley. Cold towels after an extremely slow 343 take-off was followed immediately with lunch. Duty free sales post lunch. Cold towels again at landing.
b) Aircraft + Seats:
I am not usually a fan of euro-white liveries, but I find the Swiss 343 to be extremely graceful looking. Part of it is because the 343 is a very elegant aircraft probably. Inside, the 343 was kept spotless by LX … though, some amenities in the bathroom would have been good … especially with the lack of any kit being distributed. However, I HATE the J class seats offered by LX. While they are comfortable to sit on, the bizarre recline position made sleeping very uncomfortable. The many folds and breaks on the seat ensures that I toss and turn and fail to capture some real sleep. Seriously, the weird fold points makes the body cringe at several points because the "bed" has several uneven fold points. One more thing I hated about the seat was the weird cut-out for the audio-video controls which was uncomfortable as you put your hands on the arm-rest. The only saving grace was that unlike some angular flat arrangements (example: AF), I found the overall room to be much more satisfactory. I could be in several recline modes without having the need to cramp and position my leg in some awkward manner.
Aircraft:
(Beautiful 343 in LX livery – taken upon arrival @ GRU)
Views from Aircraft:
(LAN 763 next to us @ SCL)
(CM 738 for the long trek to PTY)
(Slow liftoff)
(Beautiful Andes + Beautiful and inefficient 343)
General Seat Views + Seat Legroom
(The cutout for controls make it very uncomfortable)
Seat Recline + Angle View:
Cabin:
(The more private mini-cabin in J)
(Bathroom without amenities)
c) Meal + Beverage:
On the ground, the choice of drinks were orange juice, water, and “champagne” (Brut Mosaïque). Lunch included a choice of beef or pasta and I chose the later. While not the best pasta I have ever had, it was decent and did the purpose of filling me up quickly. I wonder if the catering gets better as the flight progresses as the J class meal ex-SCL was nothing to write home about. Beverage selection was pretty average during the flight as well – you could see the limited choices from the picture of the menu.
(Menu)
(Champagne to kick if off while on ground)
(Lunch)
(Tea)
(Chocolate – a very LX touch)
d) Inflight Entertainment:
Probably one of my biggest grievances with Swiss was the awfully antiquated IFE. Ok, it was not as bad as Air France with its old-school non AVOD, but it was pretty poor in terms of choices (extremely limited and poor selection of movies – some movies that you wanted to see were limited to certain flights only), headphones (God, seriously, they should look at Y headphones of some airlines), and screen. Thankfully, Swiss comes with a decent in-flight magazine and a very cool Business class magazine.
(Poor IFE screen and setup)
(Moving map with our route)
(Options and weak headphones)
(Nose camera)
(“In-flight magazines”, Boarding Passes, etc.)
e) Crew:
Probably the single biggest redeeming point for this particular Swiss flight was its crew members. While the entire crew was above satisfactory, I had the pleasure of a wonderful purser who clearly enjoyed her job and was well versed in the history of Swiss and the airline industry. She would come and check on me several times (though, given loads, she was probably bored) and chatted with me about her career with Swissair and Swiss. She provided some interesting and bizarre insights – interesting included that the loads for both F and J ex-GRU was 100%. Interesting included how she felt Lufthansa considers Swiss poorly and has failed to properly invest in the company, and that is a feeling many in LX feel. Bizarre included that LX had initially apparently installed touch-screen IFE’s (when I was whining about the poor IFE), but they were taken out of service as it was found that these touch screen IFE’s had caused the M11 crash out of JFK (to GVA).
IV> Post-Flight:
As much as I love Sao Paulo and the chance to see Gustavo, GRU leaves much to be desired. Immigration took over an hour thanks to being in line after the SAA flight ex-JNB. Having said that, the immigration woman was charming and I was happy to be in the middle of chaotic Sao Paulo after the sterility of Santiago.
(Video telling us of landing procedures @ GRU. I thought it was very useful.)
(I love this view from GRU where all the aircraft are stored like a junkyard)
(Diversity of carriers)
(GRU – Varig Log)
(Ocean Air and others)
(GRU Terminal)
(Arrivals @ GRU)
(Arrival board)
V> Impressions + Scores:
Unfortunately, Swiss J class is not what it used to be. It’s seats are antiquated (though, being updated in 2009), and the IFE program needs a much thorough overhaul. Additionally, catering was weak as well and the lack of amenities (either distributed or in the lavs) was noteworthy. Particularly interesting as amenity kits were distributed when I did this routing earlier in the year. What Swiss does well is running a safe and reliable schedule that gets you from point A to B, sometimes via a super efficient hub @ ZRH. Since most European carriers basically are good at this (except awful AF @ CDG), what makes Swiss unique and one of the better carriers in Europe is an extremely warm cabin crew who go beyond their call to make you feel good. Swiss sort of reminds me of KLM. Both airlines with average J products, owned by larger airlines, who crew outperforms against odds. While Swiss is definitely not a world benchmark airline anymore, it still is probably one of the best carriers out of Europe. Definitely would fly them again … especially if the choice involved choosing over another Euro zone carrier.
1.0 > RESERVATION: 8.0
2.0 > CHECK-IN: 7.0
0.5 > LOUNGE: 7.0
0.5 > BOARDING: 8.0
2.0 > SEAT: 5.5
0.5 > AIRCRAFT OVERALL AMBIENCE: 7.5
1.0 > IFE: 6.0
2.0 > CREW: 8.5
2.0 > FOOD: 6.5
0.5 > BEVERAGES: 7.5
0.5 > A.KITS + OTHER FREEBIES: 5.0
0.5 > DISEMBARKATION: 9.0
1.0 > ON-TIME RECORD: 9.0 WEIGHTED OVERALL IMPRESSION (WOI): 7.14
(Pre-flight WOI of all reviews: 6.42)
* Weighted Overall Impression (WOI) aligns scores with what matters most. Weights are indicated alongside each category.
(Scores are based on comparison with other airlines in THAT class of service – No comparison of Y vs. F for example)
(Note on Codes: Y – Economy, J – Business, F – First :: I/D – International/Domestic :: SR/MR/LR – Short/Medium/Long Haul)
VII> Other Pictures:
As it has become customary, and by popular demand, here is a collection of pictures from my trip to Chile. Santiago is an OK town … to see the real Chile, go outside it. Most of the pictures are from my favorite town in Chile … beautifully intoxicating Valparaiso.
(Santiago)
(Santiago from my hotel room @ San Cristobal Towers – a little too pretentious for my taste)
(Sights of Santiago)
(VIVA PROTESTS!)
(Beautiful Valpo)
(Forget tourist restaurants … go to the Mercado Municipal and have lunch at one of the many local eatiers … my Chilean friends and I went here … and had this man come and sing … one of my local friends has a great voice and joined in a great rendition of the song “Valparaiso”)
Semsem From Israel, joined Jul 2005, 1779 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 25813 times:
I fly on LX from GVA to New York in economy at times. My impression is that LH allow LX to operate completely independently. There is no change in the service and the food in Y is just as mediocre now as it was prior to the acquisition. Recently I had to change a ticket and ended up twice with telephone agents in South Africa who knew nothing, did not bother to check regulations and were unhelpful. I had to schlep to the airport to change my reservation.
Mk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1186 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 25682 times:
Hi there,
Thanks for the SCL terminal pictures. Its a rather dull terminal with not much natural light penetrating through.
The LX J class is not all that as seen from your seats and IFE. The food looked decent. I guess on a short flight, they really don't work too hard. Hopefully from GRU to ZRH, its much better service.
I loved the shots at valparaiso and Iquique. Its always a good idea to eat where the locals do, usually then a tourist gets the best food. You really captured the myriad colours while you visited chile.
Super737 From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Feb 2008, 105 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 25641 times:
That was very enjoyable read! Also the dutch guy trying to score an upgrade that way - never heard that one before!!!!
SandroZRH From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 3382 posts, RR: 51 Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 25525 times:
Good TR, thanks.
I agree that the seats are nothing to write home about, even less so on the A332s. However, this is subject to change, the same goes for the IFE. Also, the food usually tends to be a lot better ex-ZRH than on the return legs. But then again, SCL-GRU is a rather shortish flight,, which is why you really can't expect a 5 course meal.
The crews, well, what can I say, as good as ever!
And, why would you lable the A343 inefficient? LX seem to be very happy with it, otherwise they hadn't added several A343s to the fleet recently.
Chepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 5966 posts, RR: 12 Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 25351 times:
Buen trabajo!
Great trip report. I guess you had great crews on LX, did they have Portuguesse and Spanish speaking crew members on your flights?
I recently flew LH between FRA and BCN, and very few of the announcements were made in Spanish or Catalan. Only the "Bienvenidos a Barcelona".
Chile looks fantastic, I might stop there on my way to Argentina in September.
PHLstudent From United States of America, joined May 2006, 498 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 25187 times:
you never cease to produce some of the best trip reports on a.net. This one if no different, although you did not have the best experience on Swiss, I still think it looks better than most. (mainly U.S. carriers)
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 55 Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 25026 times:
Quoting Semsem (Reply 2): I fly on LX from GVA to New York in economy at times. My impression is that LH allow LX to operate completely independently. There is no change in the service and the food in Y is just as mediocre now as it was prior to the acquisition. Recently I had to change a ticket and ended up twice with telephone agents in South Africa who knew nothing, did not bother to check regulations and were unhelpful. I had to schlep to the airport to change my reservation.
= Sorry to hear of your experience. As I mentioned, I do think that LX has gone down from the SR days. However, I do think though that while LH ensures independent operations, management oversight is still with "big brother". I find LH service appauling, and see LX having moved a little closer to that direction.
Quoting DALelite (Reply 3): Just another superb TR of yours!!
= Thank you. BTW, I am in Vaduz for some family events ... perhaps we can coordinate something?
Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 1): Wow! Going to SCL this December and I am already looking forward to taking pictures there! Nice TR, great pics!
= Thanks. Make sure you get out of SCL. Chile has a lot to offer.
Quoting Mk777 (Reply 5): The LX J class is not all that as seen from your seats and IFE. The food looked decent. I guess on a short flight, they really don't work too hard. Hopefully from GRU to ZRH, its much better service.
Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 7): Also, the food usually tends to be a lot better ex-ZRH than on the return legs. But then again, SCL-GRU is a rather shortish flight,, which is why you really can't expect a 5 course meal.
= Well, I will find out for sure as I seem to have MANY LX legs coming up ... let's see ... on J for BOS - ZRH, ZRH - JNB, TLV - ZRH, and ZRH - BOS in the next 2 months.
Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 7): And, why would you lable the A343 inefficient? LX seem to be very happy with it, otherwise they hadn't added several A343s to the fleet recently.
= LX got the 343 in an environment when it was hard to procure a 777. Operationally (dispatch, fuel economics), the 343 is not the best aircraft out there.
Quoting Chepos (Reply 8): I guess you had great crews on LX, did they have Portuguesse and Spanish speaking crew members on your flights?
I recently flew LH between FRA and BCN, and very few of the announcements were made in Spanish or Catalan. Only the "Bienvenidos a Barcelona".
= Annoucements were made in Spanish and Portuguese.
Quoting Chepos (Reply 8): Chile looks fantastic, I might stop there on my way to Argentina in September.
= Don't rush it. Argentina is a great country.
Quoting PHLstudent (Reply 9): you never cease to produce some of the best trip reports on a.net. This one if no different, although you did not have the best experience on Swiss, I still think it looks better than most. (mainly U.S. carriers)
= For sure. As you can see with the scoring, LX is definitely a high middle scoring flight. In the Americas, only my flight with Delta on JFK-CDG was better last year.
Quoting PHLstudent (Reply 9): Always looking forward to future reports...
= Look out for some of the lesser written about Star partners coming very soon.
Caspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 24614 times:
Great report and really great pictures.
About SWISS and LH. I don't have the feeling that LH thinks SWISS is doing poorly. About the SWSS cabin. Major upgrades are coming next year as you already mentioned.
BA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8259 posts, RR: 56 Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 24166 times:
Great report and pictures, especially the 'tourist' pictures as I call them, simply wonderful!
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): I was not pleased that seat selections cannot be done online. However, I was able to do the same calling their number in Santiago.
- I to found this issue, however their call centre was pretty helpfull and answered the phone quickly.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): A gentleman from Holland came by and sat in seat 4A … apparently, he was a Y ticketed passenger and wanted to take pictures of the Andes, and the view was better from the J cabin. The crew politely asked him to leave. After several requests, he got very agitated and started hurling abuses at the Swiss crew and saying how “this would never happen at KLM” and that the Swiss crew was “German Nazis”
PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6183 posts, RR: 79 Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 24152 times:
Great report, once again with stunning pictures.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): A gentleman from Holland came by and sat in seat 4A … apparently, he was a Y ticketed passenger and wanted to take pictures of the Andes, and the view was better from the J cabin. The crew politely asked him to leave. After several requests, he got very agitated and started hurling abuses at the Swiss crew and saying how “this would never happen at KLM” and that the Swiss crew was “German Nazis”! At this point, I had enough and went to the crew standing around him and said that if he was not off-loaded, I was calling my ministry contacts in Chile to have him put behind bars. Jaja. Of course, the entire thing was a lie. The man muttered something in Dutch and went back to the Y cabin. The crew and I shared a joke about it later … but seriously, some people!
Unbelievable. The addressed crew members should have sued that guy.
AlexEU From Serbia, joined Oct 2007, 1791 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 23980 times:
Nice report and great pics !
Why was the load so low? Did you include pax flying to ZRH or did you only include pax flying to GRU? btw, Why does LX flies to Santiago anyway? what's the demand.
AviationMaster From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 2464 posts, RR: 38 Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 23955 times:
Thanks for yet another impressive report!
Quoting AlexEU (Reply 14): Why does LX flies to Santiago anyway? what's the demand.
LX took over LH's tag-on flight from GRU. It's better to use this aircraft for this short rotation, than to have it sit around for most of the day at GRU, while waiting for its return flight back to ZRH.
StevenG From Netherlands, joined Oct 2005, 91 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 23783 times:
Another great TR!
It has been a long time since your last trip reports from Africa or I must have been asleep.
Excellent pictures from SCL and Valparaiso. Still having good memories, although it has been 8 years ago since my visit oever there.
Could you see from which airlines the aircraft were at the 'boneyard' at GRU?
Looks like some former VASP-metal and two 707's?!
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): Since most European carriers basically are good at this (except awful AF @ CDG), what makes Swiss unique and one of the better carriers in Europe is an extremely warm cabin crew who go beyond their call to make you feel good. Swiss sort of reminds me of KLM. Both airlines with average J products, owned by larger airlines, who crew outperforms against odds. While Swiss is definitely not a world benchmark airline anymore, it still is probably one of the best carriers out of Europe. Definitely would fly them again %u2026 especially if the choice involved choosing over another Euro zone carrier.
Basically I agree with you. Although I am LH FT most of my flights these days are on LX. Last spring I flew LX C to JNB in the A340 and I was very satisfied with their product. Their seats were no better or worse than other C-class products except the A332. However those last C-class seats are not too bad for daytime flights.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): The crew politely asked him to leave. After several requests, he got very agitated and started hurling abuses at the Swiss crew and saying how “this would never happen at KLM” and that the Swiss crew was “German Nazis”!
I guess there are some airlines and countries where this passenger would have left the aircraft handcuffed.
LH431 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 81 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 23558 times:
Hey!
I enjoyed reading your TR very much, especially because I took the same flight in may.
My day trip to Valpariso was very nice too, but we had a cold, foggy day.
Santiago is the only city in South America I visited so far, so I cannot comment about that
What I do not understand are your complaints about SWISS IFE. I flew ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU with them and were not able to watch all the movies that they offered and the ones I was interested in.
I fully agree with you about the headphones, they are quite cheap for Biz class. On the other hand: Thai Airways has the same. I have the impression that noise cancelling headphones are the exception in todays C-Class(LH, SQ, NZ have very nice ones btw)
If you want to be sure to have decent ones, the best is to bring your own Bose.
The seats are very uncomfortable for sleeping, although I slept full 8h on the ZRH-GRU run. LH's product is much softer and better for sleeping.
Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 7): But then again, SCL-GRU is a rather shortish flight,, which is why you really can't expect a 5 course meal.
There is even a difference in the menu description. "Gourmet menu" is stated on the top of the page for the long haul flight and "menu" for this short one.
DALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1581 posts, RR: 7 Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 23449 times:
great report of a nice flight. It's always nice to read about a tag-on stretch of a int. cont. flight.
Also nice to read another LX report, an airline which is well covered here on the forum.
I also liked the SCL pictures.
Thanks for sharing!
Cheers,
Joost ( D-ALCE )
flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,AB6. Next flights AMS-ZRH-AMS on
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 55 Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 23381 times:
Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 11): I don't have the feeling that LH thinks SWISS is doing poorly. About the SWSS cabin. Major upgrades are coming next year as you already mentioned.
= LX is financially doing very well and finally being able to carve out a role in the LH system. I am looking forward to the upgrades. IMHO, LX is a much better and more customer friendly airline.
Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 12): especially the 'tourist' pictures as I call them, simply wonderful!
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 13): The addressed crew members should have sued that guy.
= Thanks.
Quoting AlexEU (Reply 14): Why was the load so low? Did you include pax flying to ZRH or did you only include pax flying to GRU? btw, Why does LX flies to Santiago anyway? what's the demand.
= Jaja. Man, how the hell would I have guessed that? I was not conducting an O&D survey . The load factor represented segment load - ultimate destinations are anyone's guess.
Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 15): It's better to use this aircraft for this short rotation, than to have it sit around for most of the day at GRU, while waiting for its return flight back to ZRH.
= See. I disagree. The economics of the 343 make it have a high BELF. Perhaps there is cargo demand ... or perhaps through traffic to SCL ex-ZRH and behind is very lucrative?
Quoting LH431 (Reply 17): What I do not understand are your complaints about SWISS IFE. I flew ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU with them and were not able to watch all the movies that they offered and the ones I was interested in.
I fully agree with you about the headphones, they are quite cheap for Biz class. On the other hand: Thai Airways has the same. I have the impression that noise cancelling headphones are the exception in todays C-Class(LH, SQ, NZ have very nice ones btw)
If you want to be sure to have decent ones, the best is to bring your own Bose.
= You and I must have different standards then! Look at their antiquated screens, horrid headphones (and why should I bring my Bose when I paid USD 4,000 for a 3 hour flight), and lack of movie choices. The movies were essentially crappy ... and having been used to SQ, CX, EK, EY, 9W, AI, JL, NH ... it is a VERY limited movie choice.
Quoting LH431 (Reply 17): The seats are very uncomfortable for sleeping, although I slept full 8h on the ZRH-GRU run. LH's product is much softer and better for sleeping.
= Both are below-average seats. Thankfully, LX's new seats are going to be good.
Quoting LH431 (Reply 17): There is even a difference in the menu description. "Gourmet menu" is stated on the top of the page for the long haul flight and "menu" for this short one.
= As I mentioned, I have a lot of transcontinental flights coming up on LX. I will do a TR to see how it stacks up.
LH431 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 81 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 23317 times:
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 19): why should I bring my Bose when I paid USD 4,000 for a 3 hour flight
Did you really paid that??? Wow! I flew ATH -FRA-ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU-FRA-ATH(about 28.500km and more than 24h in the air) for 2500euro. Ticketed D-Class btw.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 19): Both are below-average seats. Thankfully, LX's new seats are going to be good.
I just watched the virtual presentation of the new LX seats. Very nice! But SCL-GRU wont see these seats before 2011. Other airlines have better seats, fully horizontal. No question! But, does SQ fly to south america? No! Do they fly e.g. FRA-JFK with a full horizontal bed? No!
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 19): You and I must have different standards then! Look at their antiquated screens, horrid headphones
My experience is limited but the LX screen has the same size like many other carriers, hasn't it?(9").
I was happy with the movie selection keeping me busy all the time. A wide screen laptop with your own DVDs and a bose headphone will give you the same standard on each flight.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 23301 times:
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): A gentleman from Holland came by and sat in seat 4A … apparently, he was a Y ticketed passenger and wanted to take pictures of the Andes, and the view was better from the J cabin. The crew politely asked him to leave. After several requests, he got very agitated and started hurling abuses at the Swiss crew and saying how “this would never happen at KLM” and that the Swiss crew was “German Nazis”!
Well, he certainly has no experience with KLM! And being Dutch he should have just accepted the fact that he tried to travel in J with a Y ticket!
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): Probably one of my biggest grievances with Swiss was the awfully antiquated IFE. Ok, it was not as bad as Air France with its old-school non AVOD
Point for KL, probably the best IFE in the industry.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Thread starter): interesting included that the loads for both F and J ex-GRU was 100%
GRU is just a cash-machine for airlines...the amount of C and F seat supply in GRU is staggering.
Quoting LH431 (Reply 20): Other airlines have better seats, fully horizontal. No question! But, does SQ fly to south america? No! Do they fly e.g. FRA-JFK with a full horizontal bed? No!
Well, KE and EK are among the airlines with the best seats in F and C and they both fly to GRU. I would also include AC among the airlines with excellent C seats.
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 55 Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 23267 times:
Quoting LH431 (Reply 20): Did you really paid that??? Wow! I flew ATH -FRA-ZRH-GRU-SCL-GRU-FRA-ATH(about 28.500km and more than 24h in the air) for 2500euro. Ticketed D-Class btw.
= Ok. Ok. I paid USD 3,096 for the return ticket ... though, to be fair, it was a last minute and ticketed in C class.
Quoting LH431 (Reply 20): I just watched the virtual presentation of the new LX seats. Very nice! But SCL-GRU wont see these seats before 2011. Other airlines have better seats, fully horizontal. No question! But, does SQ fly to south america? No! Do they fly e.g. FRA-JFK with a full horizontal bed? No!
= I don't understand your point here. Swiss is a global airline and not a two-bit player relegated to low yielding intra-Americas routings. It should be benchmarked against other world players. If you read my trip evaluations, they are based on JUST THAT FLIGHT. Moreover, if you read my SQ reports, you will see that I do not look favorably on their J product either. Having said that, SQ's updated J is MILES ahead of even the refurbished J of LX; moreover, SQ (with a larger fleet) is far more aggressive with their J rollout. FRA-JFK is NOT an important route for SQ ... if it were, it would get the new J. Look at SIN-BOM which gets upgraded 77W service to take a queue on route priorities.
Quoting LH431 (Reply 20): I was happy with the movie selection keeping me busy all the time. A wide screen laptop with your own DVDs and a bose headphone will give you the same standard on each flight.
= If I did that, I would have no reason to travel J. One of the reasons of flying premium service, is to be wined, dined, and entertained. If I fly Y, I am happy with a simple meal. If LX wants to learn IFE, look at AI's new Y.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21): And being Dutch he should have just accepted the fact that he tried to travel in J with a Y ticket! Smile
= Ya, that is what I found ironic given I have actually been yelled at by a Dutch guy for jumping the queue at an ATM ... I did not notice him. But you know, obnoxious bigots are the same irrespective of nationality. Though, some countries just have a lot more ... like a large fading European power .
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21): Point for KL, probably the best IFE in the industry.
= Definitely amongst the leaders within Europe. In the world, top 20.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21): GRU is just a cash-machine for airlines...the amount of C and F seat supply in GRU is staggering.
= Yup.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 21): Well, KE and EK are among the airlines with the best seats in F and C and they both fly to GRU. I would also include AC among the airlines with excellent C seats.
Rgs,
= A lot of better seats serve GRU. You mentioned KE and EK ... but also LA, AC, SA (EXCELLENT J PRODUCT), IB (as much as I hate their service, great new seat), and BA.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 23154 times:
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 22): = Ok. Ok. I paid USD 3,096 for the return ticket ... though, to be fair, it was a last minute and ticketed in C class
The last time I flew the route I paid for TAM one-way C ticket USD500 and for LAN C ticket one-way USD990. TAM will start flying GRU-SCL with the B777-300 starting end of August and they will feature the new C and F product.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 22): = Definitely amongst the leaders within Europe. In the world, top 20.
I would rank KL IFE among the top 10 in the world.
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 22): = A lot of better seats serve GRU. You mentioned KE and EK ... but also LA, AC, SA (EXCELLENT J PRODUCT), IB (as much as I hate their service, great new seat), and BA.
Lets see the best C seats in GRU: KE, and EK and AC, for sure, plus as you mentioned and I agree SA, and yes IB seat is great, and BA. I would also inlcude to the list JAL, which sometimes uses its new shell-seat to GRU, plus of course TAM. Regarding the angle seats I would inlcude AF, KL (the new one for the B77W), LA and AM (just experienced this one in July). So there is plenty of good C and F seats available in the market now in GRU making airlines such as CO and DL really look bad!
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 55 Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 23118 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 23): Lets see the best C seats in GRU: KE, and EK and AC, for sure, plus as you mentioned and I agree SA, and yes IB seat is great, and BA. I would also inlcude to the list JAL, which sometimes uses its new shell-seat to GRU, plus of course TAM. Regarding the angle seats I would inlcude AF, KL (the new one for the B77W), LA and AM (just experienced this one in July). So there is plenty of good C and F seats available in the market now in GRU making airlines such as CO and DL really look bad!
Rgs,
= How is the AM J class product? I am debating taking them from MEX to NRT via TIJ ... or use JL which I absolutely adore. Any pictures?
Thanks,
A.
Live, and let live.
25 Hardiwv: Well, AM has a very good product with an angle-seat similar to LA, AF and KL (new B77W seat). However, as you said, JL is just outstanding with their
26 ZRH: On the contrary. LH is very satisfied with the performance of SWISS. Last year LX made a net profit of about 400 mi € and so contributed about 1/4
27 GOwithCO332: As always, great trip report. I always thought of SCL as being much nicer and I don't know "glassier" like EZE is. I love EZE by the way! I arrived th
28 Abrelosojos: = Swiss has had a remarkable turnaround and is well positioned as a great addition within the LH network - both strategically and economic wise. Howe
29 EddieDude: I have not been able (yet) to fly to Asia with AM, or on board one of the new-build 772ERs (only the ex-RG 772ERs between MEX and GRU), but I believe
30 Readytotaxi: FANTASTIC report, really wow. But tell me, did they really present a salad in Business Class with Cling film over it?
31 Abrelosojos: = I am in Mexico a lot these days ... though invariably end up spending time at work at client site, and then hang out with my friend in Condesa. He
32 EddieDude: No offense to Regios, but no thanks! I mean, it is a nice and prosperous city, but it is not an optimal place for my line of work. We can meet quite
33 MilesDependent: Quite seriously, I look forward to your reports more than anyone else on this site. Big call but it's true. Please keep it up!!
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