DALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1597 posts, RR: 7 Posted (4 years 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 12367 times:
Just a week after my last trip I was flying again, this time a leisure trip together with my girlfriend. Since we both never went to London, and the Christmas period we decided for a long weekend of combined sightseeing and Christmas Shopping in London.
My girlfriend found a very good deal for a hotel, and since FR regularly has special offers, we booked online with FR; some 2 months ago (at the same time as my NRN-SXF-NYO-NRN trip). This time we also booked one checked bag, as we would return with the shopping results so needed a tad more space. Total booking fee was € 64,00 for the two of us, which is a real bargain. Add the parking costs for the car of € 36,00 and the total trip cost € 100,- for the two of us.
Let’s go now!
Since our flight departed around noon, we decided to leave our home at 07.30, with an eta of 10.00hrs. Some spare time left in case the 274km drive causes some delays due to traffic jams or so. In the end it was just after 08.00hrs when I started the nr. 1 engine of my Renault and we were on our way. Traffic was light on this Saturday, and soon we passed Amsterdam, Utrecht heading more south to turn east towards the German borders.
It must have been around 10.30 when we arrived at the car park of Dusseldorf Weeze airport, or Niederrhein airport. We walked through the cold air, as it was actually freezing.
Since we had a checked bag, we could not check in online, so we queued up for the STN flight. Nobody in front of us, so we were checked in within seconds.
Now we had some time to spare and walked around the indoor Christmas market at the NRN terminal. Nothing special to be seen actually.
After a coffee and a hot chocolate for my girl, we decided to head for security which was also really quick. I really like NRN, it’s so quick and relaxed!
Also passport control was done within seconds, and we waited at the gate for 15 minutes before the flight was ready for boarding.
Flight: FR3261
Stretch: NRN-STN
Date: 13-dec-2008
Aircraft: Boeing 737-8AS (WL)
Msn: 36574
Registration: EI-DYL
Delivered: 12-jun-2008
Seat: can’t remember
Loadfactor: 90%
4th flight on the 737-800 and the first on this machine
Time for boarding came soon and we could walk up to the plane. I was happy to see that I could add a new entry for my log, since some a.netters seems to be lucky with catching the same FR machines over and over (Airbuseric…). We seated somewhere in the front part of the aircraft, with my girlfriend at the window-seat and myself just next to her.
Machine was quite clean and the usual blue and yellow cabin lay out. The cabin crew existed of 4 female attendants of which one I recognized from my earlier trip on FR.
Legroom was small, but for a 55 minute flight just enough.
Soon boarding completed and we were pushed back from the parking spot, and taxied to the active runway.
We used quite a bit of runway length before we jumped into the foggy skies, but everything was comfortable enough. The cloud layers were not too thick so we soon had a clear blue sky and some nice views of the islands in the southern part of The Netherlands.
Service came through and we bought a coffee and a tea which cost € 6,- in total, which is rather expensive.
Descent followed rapidly, and we lost our view due to a thick layer of clouds over the London area. Touch-down was smooth and we taxied to our stand between some other FR 737’s.
Other equipment at STN was a couple of U2 319’s, Jet2 733’s and an Asiana 744F at the cargo dock.
We disembarked via the front door and walked to the terminal. Some quick pictures taken and on our way to the main terminal.
Through the very large area of the UK border control, and to the desk where we bought 2 bus-tickets on the Terravision bus to Liverpool Street.
After a bus ride of about an hour we were at Liverpool Street station and headed to our hotel.
Here are a couple of pictures we made during the weekend. Some of which are made by my girl.
Our Hotelroom, rather nice!
Our Fall-out base, from this Tube station we went exploring the city.
A classic!
Tower Bridge
Tower Guard
Big Ben
London Eye or Millenium Wheel
Randon typical English style street
Typical London Taxi
small bird
Buckingham Palace
Unfortunately it soon was Tuesday, so time to go back home again.
We really enjoyed our stay in London, which is a great city to visit. We really are going back there in a couple of years.
Wrong day
D-ALCE and Santa
Turn around, and again, and again
Are we in Munich?
Speedy Gonzales
Piccadilly Circus
and again
hmmm
Harrods in Christmas style
We went with a red double-decker bus to Liverpool Street and boarded the Terravision bus to London Stansted airport. Again it took about an hour to cover the distance between the city and STN airport.
The ride went smoothly and I created a nickname for the bus driver, since he drove quite fast. I call him Robert Kubica, since he was a polish chap!
Terravision bus to STN
Terravision bus at STN
A quick smoke outside, and we headed to the check-in machines for our check in. After that we dropped our bag and did some last minute buying in the tax-free zone.
Strangely enough we did not pass any passport control when exiting the UK, and I thought the border control would take place near the departure gate. This was not the case though.
Is this only at STN or are there more UK airports where no border control is done at leaving the UK.
Anyway, we bought a bottle of IRN-BRU, a Scottish soft drink and waited for boarding to start.
A long queue at the gate caused the boarding process to be very slow. A mother with her two kids queued up at the priority line and got rejected by the gate agent. She was told to queue up at the normal queue and wait for her turn. She refused to move and started arguing with the young female gate agent. Both raised their voices and a heavy discussion almost escalated as the mother got a bit aggressive. We meanwhile boarded the airplane and don’t know how it ended, but we didn’t see the mother and her kids on board the aircraft, nor at NRN after arrival. So I think they got a refused boarding for this flight.
Flight: FR3262
Stretch: STN-NRN
Date: 16-dec-2008
Aircraft: Boeing 737-8AS (WL)
Msn: 33808
Registration: EI-DCN
Delivered: 01-nov-2004
Seat: 31B
Loadfactor: 99,5% ( all but three seats )
5th flight on the 737-800 and the first on this machine.
(one pic with eyebrows and one with removed eyebrows)
We entered the aircraft via the aft. door, and were amazed that there were still some window seats open as we were not one of the first 100pax to board the plane.
We sat down and OMG, I did not have any place to put my legs! This machine was the featuring the tightest legroom I have seen in my flying career! Just terrible, even for a 55 minute flight.
Cabin crew existed of 2 male and 2 female attendants, all seemed very friendly. Please note the word, seemed….
During the safety briefing the purser ( if FR have any ) started laughing for the whole duration of the briefing, so it was hard to understand for those that are interested.
We taxied to the active runway, with foggy conditions, and took of after yet another long take off run.
Cabin service was started quickly, and was very very messy and unprofessional.
During the flight one of the male attendants passed us, while we were taking some pictures of the cabin and views outside.
The doomed picture
And the other one, sorry it's a bit blurry
He told me with a very threatening voice that we were not allowed to take pictures during the flight. I didn’t want to start a discussion and said ok.
Obviously we continued taking pictures.
Couldn't resist it Chewin gum again!
Almost touched down
Soon we were already descending into NRN, and had another perfect landing!
We got off the plane via the rear door and asked the ramp agent if it was ok to take some pictures. It was ok and my girlfriend took some. While making the pictures the same attendant yelled from the plane that we immediately should stop making pictures as it is not allowed. We continued, and again he yelled from the plane that it was forbidden.
We just laughed and answered that it was ok with the ramp agent, and he shut up and went back into the aircraft.
What an *******! Sorry but I really started to get angry by his unprofessional behavior!
We were bussed to the terminal and went to passport control. Our bag was already on the belt waiting for us, and we headed to the car for our ride back home.
So far for my latest trip report!
Conclusions:
NRN : Perfect airport with good services!
STN : Good airport, a bit unclear signs where to go, but you’ll manage.
FR: well, what should I say? The flight to STN was good, but the flight back was really wrecked by that Attendant and his behavior. If you want to stop a passenger doing something, do it nice, and not like an army officer.
For the next period, I am done with FR. I prefer to pay more, and get a higher standard of service and crew.
I really hope you enjoyed my report, and please feel free to comment.
If the mentioned attendant reads my report, please change your attitude towards your GUESTS!
Cheers,
Joost (D-ALCE)
flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
Oa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25129 posts, RR: 60 Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 12198 times:
Hi very nice trip . Lovely photos. Swiss Court !! Hmmm lol.....
Where was that night picture of the slides taken?
Chewing gum again on FR ... dont tell MOL !! They will start charging for it lol...
Harrods always looks nice although not as good a store as it used to be.
The routemaster is making a come back thanks to the new London Mayor Boris Johnston. Stupid previous fool Ken Livingstone thought it was ''trendy'' to get rid of them. Thank god sense has prevailed. Its a London landmark.
DALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1597 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 12136 times:
Hi Philip,
Thanks for your nice reply!
Couldn't resist taking the picture of SwissCourt
Quoting Oa260 (Reply 1): Where was that night picture of the slides taken?
There is a funfair in Hyde Park at the moment, with a lot of German attractions coming from the Oktoberfest in Munich. Also a lot of Beer & Wurst etc. etc.
Quoting Oa260 (Reply 1): Chewing gum again on FR ... dont tell MOL !! They will start charging for it lol...
I'm sure they will make a lot of money on that if they charge per gum
Quoting Oa260 (Reply 1): Harrods always looks nice although not as good a store as it used to be.
We actually were a bit dissapointed, but the foodhalls there are amazing!
And we bought a bear or two there
Quoting Oa260 (Reply 1): The routemaster is making a come back thanks to the new London Mayor Boris Johnston. Stupid previous fool Ken Livingstone thought it was ''trendy'' to get rid of them. Thank god sense has prevailed. Its a London landmark.
Thanks for the interesting link, the Routemaster is the nicest doubledecker around, I found the new buses not too good! Can't wait to see this beauty around
Cheers,
Joost (D-ALCE)
flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25129 posts, RR: 60 Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 11930 times:
Quoting DALCE (Reply 3): We actually were a bit dissapointed, but the foodhalls there are amazing!
And we bought a bear or two there
Yes The food halls are still great. They have a place called ''The Pantry'' down stairs from the food hall and its a supermarket with all the traditional Harrods products. I still love that. When we were kids we used to be taken to the ''Toy Kingdom'' to buy things. That was always a trip we loved. The saying was that you could order a car to an Elephant at Harrods , they had everything.
Quoting DALCE (Reply 3): Couldn't resist taking the picture of SwissCourt
I noticed that right away lol....
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
DALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1597 posts, RR: 7 Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 10 hours ago) and read 11707 times:
Hi Philip,
Quoting OA260 (Reply 5): When we were kids we used to be taken to the ''Toy Kingdom'' to buy things. That was always a trip we loved. The saying was that you could order a car to an Elephant at Harrods , they had everything.
Sounds great, even for grown ups like us
Quoting OA260 (Reply 5): I noticed that right away lol....
Actually my girlfriend noticed it
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your nice words!
Quoting EICVD (Reply 6): bring back nice memories of my trip there
Which is always nice!
Cheers,
Joost (D-ALCE)
flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
FLIEGER67 From Bulgaria, joined Sep 2003, 4424 posts, RR: 56 Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 8 hours ago) and read 11534 times:
Hi, Joost,
simply great pix from London.
I was there for several times, but it is still one more thing to do anytime.
No way to show my son that London eye picture!.
And what anbout FR, if there is another acceptable way to go, think about it.
I will do so.
Quoting DALCE (Thread starter): We got off the plane via the rear door and asked the ramp agent if it was ok to take some pictures. It was ok and my girlfriend took some. While making the pictures the same attendant yelled from the plane that we immediately should stop making pictures as it is not allowed. We continued, and again he yelled from the plane that it was forbidden.
We just laughed and answered that it was ok with the ramp agent, and he shut up and went back into the aircraft.
What an *******! Sorry but I really started to get angry by his unprofessional behavior!
- Just shows there is not standard re picture taking.
Quoting DALCE (Thread starter): For the next period, I am done with FR. I prefer to pay more, and get a higher standard of service and crew.
Airbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 11440 times:
Hi Joost,
nice report again on this short hop on FR. But why from NRN, wasn't EIN a better choice in this case? Or was the fare difference remarkable? Anyway, you had some minutes more airborne time for the low fare paid
It seems the standard FR experience on both flights. You can enjoy it, and you can have a less good experience on them. It all stands with the crew you have.
The 6 Euro's for the 2 coffee... ahh, I think we can't complain when you pay this low fares. At least, the cups are quite large.
About that guy on your return flight, refusing you to take pictures; I think his personality speaks! He thinks he is a very important person and that makes him able to say about these things.
1) was he the purser on your flight? If not, you consult with the person directly.
2) if you are outside the plane, any flight attendant has no authority anymore about your behaviour.
So, nothing to worry about.
Thanks for the great pics from downtown London. A very nice city to spend some time every now and then. I didn't come in 2008, but I think 2009 will bring me over to the UK again.
Prettige feestdagen.
Eric
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
So far I scored 5 out of 5, on the row I was seated. Also on our way to STN we noticed one, but the message is clear anyway, so no need for more gumpix
Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 11): But why from NRN, wasn't EIN a better choice in this case? Or was the fare difference remarkable?
Since the flights we preferred were around € 85.- per person one way from EIN, and € 1,00 per person one way ex NRN
Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 11): I think his personality speaks! He thinks he is a very important person and that makes him able to say about these things
Just my thoughts!
Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 11): 1) was he the purser on your flight? If not, you consult with the person directly.
No he wasn't as far as I know, but to be honest, I was not listening to him
Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 11): 2) if you are outside the plane, any flight attendant has no authority anymore about your behaviour.
It was ok by NRN staff, after asking the guy, so no problems here!
So, Merry Christmas to you both and your families and beloved ones!
Cheers,
Joost (D-ALCE)
flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
Contact Air From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 1154 posts, RR: 14 Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10245 times:
Hi Joost,
very nice report and some great pictures - I always like it to see some photos of London as it is my favourite city.
Quoting DALCE (Thread starter): Strangely enough we did not pass any passport control when exiting the UK, and I thought the border control would take place near the departure gate. This was not the case though. Is this only at STN or are there more UK airports where no border control is done at leaving the UK.
It seems to be a common policy at all UK airports. Passport control is only done when entering the country, but not when leaving it (don't ask me why). I have experienced the same at LHR, LCY, MAN, BHX and PIK as well.
Quoting DALCE (Thread starter): He told me with a very threatening voice that we were not allowed to take pictures during the flight. I didn’t want to start a discussion and said ok.
It's a company policy at FR that taking pictures on board of the planes is not allowed. But of course the flight attendant could have made this clear in a polite way. And shouting behind you after you had already left the aircraft was simply ridiculous of him. I always tried to be discrete when taking pictures on FR-planes in order to avoid discussions. But I haven't flown with them for a long time now anyway, so this isn't a problem for me any longer.
Quoting DALCE (Thread starter): I am done with FR. I prefer to pay more, and get a higher standard of service and crew.
DALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1597 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9991 times:
Hi Christoph,
Thanks for your reply!
Quoting Contact Air (Reply 13): very nice report and some great pictures - I always like it to see some photos of London as it is my favourite city.
Thanks a lot! As it was our first time in London, we decided to go for the big attractions this time, I am however sure there is much more to see. But one can only cover a certain amount of a city in 3 days We will go back some time soon!
Quoting Contact Air (Reply 13): It's a company policy at FR that taking pictures on board of the planes is not allowed.
Never had the issue on my other FR flights so far. Not that too much FR flights will follow soon.
Guten Rutsch!
Joost (D-ALCE)
flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
Shamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6125 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9851 times:
Hi Joost,
Nice report, the photos from around London were great. I had a similar experience with Ryanair a few months ago, the first flight was good but the return was the complete opposite, snappy crew, poor service and a dirty cabin. I'm not in a hurry to fly them again but never say never.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9794 times:
DALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1597 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9445 times:
Hi Kevin,
First of all thanks for your reply, it's highly appreciated!
Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 15): I had a similar experience with Ryanair a few months ago, the first flight was good but the return was the complete opposite, snappy crew, poor service and a dirty cabin. I'm not in a hurry to fly them again but never say never.
I think that is the big 'problem' Ryanair has. Their onboard service is simply not consistent. You can never predict how your flight will be like.
Trintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3192 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9194 times:
Thanks for a great trip report DALCE. I loved the pictures, especially the Routemaster bus and the London taxis. They certainly do not make them like the Routemaster anymore - and it has so much character unlike some of the soulless vehicles passing as buses on London streets now. Yess there are modern double-deckers around and these are great but to be honest one always associates London with the double decker - the increasing domination of single-deckers now seems rather out of place.
Swiss Court was indeed one of the first places that stood out for me on my very first visit to London back in 2001, especially with the shopping centre with the large Swiss flag. It goes to show how much London is a world city with influences from far and wide.
To be honest, these days some airlines are becoming very touchy about photographs on board but that attendant on your flight overstepped his authority - when you were on the ground and off the plane he had no further jurisdiction over you and if the ramp agents said OK to do so, go ahead! To me this paranoia makes hardly any sense.
FR seems to be the same all the time - I finally flew them this year between STN and CIA. My experiemces appear to mirror yours - tight seating and expensive snacks. For me I flew from STN which is 225 km from where I live - the 4 hour drive in each direction was exhausting. As for myself I may well fly FR in the future but for now I do not see it happening.
The UK does not have exit controls and has not had them since 1998 but plans to reintroduce them by 2014. That said, when I flew to CPH in May this year (trip report still overdue) they did have active passport control at Terminal 3 just beyond the security check.
Quoting Trintocan (Reply 18): I loved the pictures, especially the Routemaster bus and the London taxis
I can't recall something more typical for London than this. Although the british humor comes close
Quoting Trintocan (Reply 18): and it has so much character unlike some of the soulless vehicles passing as buses on London streets now. Yess there are modern double-deckers around and these are great but to be honest one always associates London with the double decker - the increasing domination of single-deckers now seems rather out of place.
Although I like the new Mercedes buses very much, we have the same ones here in The Netherlands. They simply don't look right in the streets of London. I prefer the Routemaster above any other bus in London.
Quoting Trintocan (Reply 18): Swiss Court was indeed one of the first places that stood out for me on my very first visit to London back in 2001, especially with the shopping centre with the large Swiss flag.
It was a great spotting of my GF, who saw it first. As I work for LX it was worth a picture
Quoting Trintocan (Reply 18): For me I flew from STN which is 225 km from where I live - the 4 hour drive in each direction was exhausting.
Don't you have any airport closer then? 4hrs just to get to the airport is too much for me.
Quoting Trintocan (Reply 18): The UK does not have exit controls and has not had them since 1998 but plans to reintroduce them by 2014. That said, when I flew to CPH in May this year (trip report still overdue) they did have active passport control at Terminal 3 just beyond the security check.
Thanks for this useful information. I didn't know that. Last year I had to pass passport control when exiting at EDI. Is there a special law or regulation for Scotland?
Cheers,
Joost (D-ALCE)
flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
BW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1347 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8768 times:
Really nice TR!!! I love London,and you captured it at Christmas very well.
It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
Trintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3192 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8550 times:
D-ALCE, I made a mistake and omitted to mention that my 2008 flight to CPH was from LHR. The UK Border Agency runs the passport controls at UK airports and there is no different arrangement for Scotland over and above England and Wales. What may have happened in your case at EDI was, as in my case at LHR, they were running exit controls as part of their gradual reintroduction. Flights between Britain and Northern Ireland do have extra security checks especially those heading to Northern Ireland. Those are of course not necessarily passport checks (as those flights are domestic) but remain because of the long-standing political situation there.
About my flight to STN, the flight was free as part of a special offer I had won and the nearest airport available for taking it up was indeed STN. Overall BRS is the nearest airport to me with scheduled flights to Rome (U2 flies to CIA), I used this route when I returned to Rome in August 2008. CWL is my nearest airport and the only route to Rome from there is via AMS with KL - KL is certainly a great choice but it takes much longer that way.
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5702 posts, RR: 39 Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8392 times:
Hi Joost,
Thanks for another great read!
Wow.. Ryanair.. Thanks for sharing your experience of flying with them! Unless their fares are 1 Euro or something I think I'll avoid them.. I'd hate to be in a plane where I couldn't take photos! Not like other people would keep their cameras away for the entire flight! Oh well, at least you can say you made it off the plane.. Maybe his next ploy is a Thunderbirds type media detector and film eraser
Thanks also for a tour of London - nice photos.. Must visit it someday, preferably while my friends are still studying over there! That'll bring another TR to A.Net lol
StefanPAD From Germany, joined Dec 2005, 282 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8177 times:
Happy new year, Joost!
Again a nice TR from your hand and many good pictures! I loved the pics from London. I've been two times to LHR but never had enough time to visit the city.
FR... I've never been on them, but after your latest two reports about them I think I have no reason to fly them.
Quoting DALCE (Thread starter): I prefer to pay more, and get a higher standard of service and crew.
The closest airport for me to get a FR flight would be NRN with more than 210 km away. I prefer nearer airports like PAD or HAJ and pay some more bugs for airlines like LH, AF or KL but get a decent service and save money and time for reaching those remote airports like NRN or HHN.
HZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1599 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 8040 times:
Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 2): I don't think any have outbound passport control, it's a Schengen thing it seems.
There is no exit control, just like the US (though the US does experiment with a voluntary system from time-to-time). I thought you passport would be inspected though.... Oh well, great TR!
Keep on truckin'...
25 DALCE: Dear all, Thanks for your nice replies again! It's a very nice city, especially in the Christmas period. Although they could have done more to create
26 Akhmad: What an enjoyable report, Joost! Isn't it lovely that both you and your girlfriend share the same hobby? They should have to put this warning on a fli
Sponsor Message: 
From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1597 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25129 posts, 
From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3180 posts, 
From Bulgaria, joined Sep 2003, 4424 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8278 posts, 
From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 1154 posts, 
From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, 
From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1347 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5702 posts, 
From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1599 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
