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Compare VLM With Cityjet? RTM-LCY // LCY-AMS  
User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 51
Posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16541 times:

Hi, dear readers.

Off to London City Airport, comparing VLM with CityJet

There we go. I had to fly with KLM to keep the balance on my FlyingBlue account, and since I’ve no status, but quite some mileage, I wanted to keep those. Since I didn’t want to spend too much money, I decided for a oneway on KLM from London City Airport to Amsterdam. Outbound would be on VLM, my preferred carrier for those hops. And, for now a good moment to compare VLM with CityJet. Since the VLM brand is now owned by the Air France-KLM group as well, the VLM brand will be merged with the current CityJet. Can we keep up the high service level I’m used with from VLM? We will see…

August 17, 2009

Leaving my house at 07.00am, a human time. Bus to Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport, were from I take a non-stop Intercity trainservice to Rotterdam. The train was packed, but I managed to find a seat anyway. Lucky me! The train was on schedule, and so was my connecting bus to the airport. In Rotterdam, several buses run to the local airport, e.g. line 33, a all-stop bus which takes about 25 minutes for the ride. I got on line 50 now, which is non-stop and in about 10 minutes. Due to current reconstruction of the railway station in Rotterdam, and the square in front, you might need some time to navigate yourself to the correct busstop. It was in area ‘AA’ this time, but it might change again.


Rotterdam City Scene in the morning


The small terminal in Rotterdam was alive. Two desks were checking in for HV to Girona. This was to be a Boeing 737-700 service, with about 140 passengers. The VLM desks were quiet. No staff, but 4 passengers waiting to check-in. Not a good start! It seems the staff was smoking outside the building, and quickly appeared to assist us. Since I checked in online the day before, she just grabbed a real boarding pass from the system and handed it.
The usual complimentary newspapers, from a stand next to VLM’s desks, were ‘out of stock’. Strange. I think the club of Transavia passengers took their chance for a free copy that morning, while the VLM staff was smoking outside.


FIDS


Security was a breeze once again. Despite about 5 of the Girona bound passengers in front of me, I was checked quickly. Unfortunately for me that morning, I was to be the random check, so a manual search was performed anyway. Staff was friendly though, and then, I have no big problems with it.

In the departure lounge a single taxfree shop, a self service bar and a coffee counter. I like the coffee from the counter, so I got a latte machiato. Friendly staff, and enough seating. Views on the apron are good, but traffic is slow. A French registered private Beechcraft came in for general aviation, later a VLM from Hamburg, a VLM from London City (my aircraft) and a Transavia B737-700 from London Luton. That B737 would continue to Girona later on.


Departure Lounge



Departure Lounge


My flight was said to board from gate 1, so I had to go along passport control. Done in seconds at this airport. Very convenient. In the end, just before boarding, I counted the total of 24 passengers on this flight to London. So, nearly 50% load. Not good, maybe not bad either, taking in mind the time of the day. Most business men are already in their offices, so this might be off-peak anyway.


Waiting area near gate 1



My aircraft with another VLM Fokker 50 on the apron


Boaring started from 10.10am, 15 minutes before our scheduled departure. From the gate, a short walk over the apron to the waiting Fokker 50, which was named after the City of Brussels. Boarding was done in minutes and I was greeted by a friendly female Dutch cabin attendant.
Doors closed at 10.22am, and a quick manual safety demo was performed.


Such a good looking aircraft!



Boarding…


The interior on this Fokker 50 was fresh and I think recently updated. Slimline seats with brown leather. Legroom very good, according the VLM information 32’’.


Inside view on the Fokker 50 OO-VLR


Before engine start, also sweet candy was handed out. Engines were started exactly on time and we taxied out.

RTM-LCY
Flight No.: VG279 Date: 17AUG09
STD: 10.25 ATD: 10.25
STA: 10.30 ATA: 10.21
A/C: Fokker 50 Reg No.: OO-VLR
Seat: 03D – Economy (Single) Class



We taxied to runway 24, which is the far end away from the terminal. Meanwhile another VLM Fokker arrived. I think this was the flight from Manchester. Without delay we did a rolling take-off. Engine sound was a bit loud inside the cabin at row 3. I had the feeling that is was louder then usual, but I can’t be wrong.


Lining up runway 24



And off we go!


Some right turns brought us in the direction of the North Sea, for our crossing. Good views on the area below, including parts of the large port of Rotterdam and ‘Hoek van Holland’, a city named by the ‘corner of Holland’. This place is also departure point for Stena Line Ferries to the UK.


Heading towards the coastline



See all the glass houses below



Hoek van Holland (Corner of Holland), Stena Line Ferries leave from this place



Container terminal on the ‘Maasvlakte’ (part of the Rotterdam harbour)


We levelled at 17,000 feet, and cabin crew came in action. A choice of sandwich was available, either cheese or egg. I opted for egg, and it was actually a ‘plain omelet on a soft white roll’, to give it a name. The sandwich was good, though the egg a bit plain indeed. It came with a coffee, and an orange juice. Beverages are served in glass and china on VLM. They still have the classy product.
After about 20 minutes, coffee was refilled, and Leonidas chocolates were offered in 3 choices: dark, milk or white.


Mealservice on this VLM flight


For the rest an uneventful flight. A weather update was given from the flightdeck, westerly winds in London, a lovely day as the captain said. For sure an Englishman! We flew along the coastline onto British land around a place called Holland on Sea. How nice!
Still good views on the ground, although no views on the city this time, since we did a straight-in for runway 27. No shakers on approach, just nose down and a typical London City experience.


Nice shadows on the sea, approach the British island



Approach runway 27 at London City Airport


Always nice. We landed smoothly and after vacating the runway it took only minutes to be on stands. Block in was ahead of schedule. The crew was friendly saying goodbye.
It was by foot into the terminal, a short walk over the apron. Immigration was done in seconds here as well, 3 counters open for 24 passengers. What a luxury nowadays, and with no other inbound flights, it was a real treatment.


Marshaller guiding the Fokker 50 for parking


***

Since I had to go home also again, I opted for a return on KLM. One-way fares for the London City to Amsterdam flights are bearable, and it would give me some Flying Blue mileage, so at least my previous mileage won’t be withdrawn. I do not use Skyteam too often actually, and we’ll see what happens in the future. I’m so far not the biggest fan of the alliance, although some airlines are good enough though.
Since this flight was to be operated by Cityjet Airlines, and codeshared with VLM, it was the right opportunity to see what Cityjet has on offer. With the upcoming merger from VLM into Cityjet, it makes me feel worried about the quality level received until today on VLM. Will it be gone when they also become Cityjet? We will see!

I obtained by boarding pass already in the morning, first row in Economy Class for me, just behind the curtain. Hopefully a bit of view on the engines. The boarding pass is a very thin piece of paper only, and gives a cheap look. There is also no tear off part.

Before going through security, I made a shot of the City Airport hall, and then a police men came to me to tell me, in a friendly way though, that these pictures are not allowed. So I had a little chat with him, and although he agreed with my opinion that it really doesn’t make sense if I make such picture or not, he friendly requested me not to so again at the airport, on request of the owner of the airport. Fair enough, we had a good chat, and we understood eachother. No problems with it.


City Airport terminal/check-in area


Security was a breeze. About 4 lanes open, not more then 1 passenger in front at each lane, so done in a minute. Just today, they wanted to check my camera equipment. So everything had to come out of the bag. But, friendly staff also here, so then it is all okay with me.

The lounge behind security is rather small. A lot of bars here, even a restaurant. And a few taxfree shopping opportunities. As usual the steady amount of business men and women around, waiting for their flights home. I felt that I was maybe the only person not wearing suit and necktie!
Still 30 minutes to spend before departure. Boarding was said to start from 15.50pm. So I ordered a half pint at the bar and took position in front of the windows, with a good look on the apron. To my surprise, just minutes later my boarding call was made… From gate 8, so a long walk included. I quickly finished the drink, and walked down the long way to gate 8.


My next goal to fly on…



View on the back of my aircraft



My flight; it’s giving incorrect weather information about Amsterdam!



Another view on my aircraft to operate to Amsterdam


Stairs down to the boarding area, limited amount of seating. By far not enough to cover the passengers for this flight. Including 2 crying babies, it made me feel like being in an overcrowded bus or so, and not in a waiting lounge to catch a flight at this downtown airport.

After waiting for about 10 minutes, we were allowed to walk over the apron to the waiting Avro RJ-85. Up to row 6 had to use the forward entrance, 7 to 16 had to use the rear door to enter.

LCY-AMS
Flight No.: KL2758 Date: 17AUG09
STD: 16.05 ATD: 16.09
STA: 18.20 ATA: 18.00
A/C: BAE Avro RJ-85 Reg No.: EI-RJY
Seat: 05F – Economy Class


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Richard Covington
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Brazier




4 Engines, Longhaul? …. Nice view though!


I was asked to show my boarding pass while boarding. Friendly staff though.
My other seatmate was in 5D, the middle seat remained unused on this flight. I must say, legroom was poor. Cityjet says 31’’, but this feels less though. The seats are small, and the 3-3 layout in the RJ-85 makes it feel more small. Seats are blue leather, good condition. A Cityjet logo is embedded on the backside of the seat. And they use Air France headrest covers. Cabin gave a good maintained impression, maybe because the aircraft is not yet too long in service with this airline. It was previously flown for Northwest Airlines by Mesaba, in the USA.
But, my seatpocket was filled with rubbish from a previous passenger though! And, I do not need 2 copies of the VLM Velocity inflight magazine. I also had a copy of the large Air France inflight plus a Business & Finance magazine. This reduces my seatpitch even more.


Ouch ! Why is this not cleaned up…


For everybody who want to catch a flight on these machines, row 6 is NO window!

Although boarding completed on time, with the final touches and door closure, it made a little delay on departure. But, traffic was slow at the airport, so without further delay we taxied to runway 27 (you have to use the runway to taxi and make a 180° turn at the end (or use the small taxiway to be standby with arriving traffic on finals). During taxiing, a manual safety demo was given. Difficult to see for me, since part of the separation curtain from business class was in front of me.


Taxiing to the active runway 27



… and more taxiing, to runway 27


The aircraft was at full brakes once the engines were put on full thrust. A brake release made it a very powerful takeoff roll, and brought us in the air safely and before the runway end.
We turned away from London with some right turns.
Inflight info from the flightdeck learned me that the we levelled at 19,000 feet on this leg.


And of we go again, back home to Amsterdam!



Some turns after departure


Once we reached a safe altitude, the service started promptly. 2 females did the cabin, and they were stressed now. With a load of maybe 75%, a lot of work for them. Sandwiches were handed out, either cheese or turkey & tomato. I had the Turkey & Tomato on a buttered wholemeat bap.
What a name! The bread itself was very dry, and you almost didn’t taste the turkey or tomato. For sure not the best quality sandwich.
The other crewmember came with drinks. I asked for a white wine, and that was given. With a plastic cup. The wine was a Chardonnay ‘La Baume 2008’. Not really my taste.


The cabin ciew (this is a look into business class, exactly same seating)



Mealservice on this Cityjet flight


The flight itself went quickly and calm. Good weather all route, and with the Dutch coast already insight, descent started. So, with my bottle of wine in the hand, the plastic cup in the other hand (how can I make pictures now!), I seated myself for approach.


Crossing the North Sea


We overflew the metal industries of IJmuiden and a right turn brought the plane for the ILS approach on runway 18R, also called ‘Polderbaan’. This would mean a taxitime of about 20 minutes. Landing was smooth and they kept the speed up during taxiing.


Overflying Ijmuiden, on approach for 18R



Taxiing on taxiway A (North), Air Berlin leaving for PMI


Some changes on the taxi route due work in progress on taxiway A, between A10 and A9S, so we changed to B taxiway and right via A9S to the apron. Gate was D21, the inner side of the D-gates. I personally use these gates not too often, so it was nice for a change. Block-in ahead of schedule, engines running for 3 more minutes due to ‘no GPU available yet’, so we stayed in our seats. And another 3 minutes were needed for the ladies from KLM to attach the passenger bridge on the aircraft.

A ‘have a nice day’ goodbye upon deplaning. Goodbye Cityjet!

Conclusion;

Rotterdam Airport; a very convenient place, but, can be less good when a few holiday charters are due to leave. The terminal is small, and security only 1 x-ray (+ one priority lane), so it might give irritation in busier times. You can reach it by bus only from downtown, but connections are good.
VLM, still a very good airline. Wonderful friendly groundservice and on board friendly staffs, well maintained comfortable cabins on the Fokker 50. Inflight catering is at a high level, large and fresh sandwich, 2 drinks, and coffee refill, chocolate. Really good.
London City Airport; very convenient location of course, easy to take the DLR to downtown Bank Station and change on the tube. Security is always quick here. In the lounge, not enough seating for waiting passengers, especially during rush hour. Also the seating in the gate area is limited, and not suitable for departing RJ85 or RJ100 flights, let along a Emb170/190 which will serve for BA later this and next year (I will take the inauguration BA Emb170 flight LCY-AMS in September, so report later again on the situation).
Cityjet, not sure. Not too good in my opinion. With 2 cabin crew service towards each passenger is brought to a minimum. Crew was in a hurry to serve everybody in time. Crew has to work harder then on VLM (also 2 crew for the cabin, max 50 passengers).
Seats are not comfortable and also the 3-3 layout in the RJ85 is not so good. Catering was average only, only time for 1 drink (no refills) and the sandwich was not really good either.

I think we have to be afraid that the current VLM experience will be gone forever soon, once the merger is completed. Air France-KLM will never keep up the current level and maybe also fares will become higher in the end, with flight reductions between City Airport and the Netherlands. And with no replacement for the Fokker 50 fleet, the real future of VLM seems undecided yet.

Thank you for the interest, your replies are appreciated of course.

Regards,
Eric


"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16527 times:

Great report and pics Eric. Didnt know VLM had such a good service. Will be sad to see it go. The CityJet product didnt look too bad but not as good as VLM thats for sure. I was impressed with the proper cups and glasses on VLM thats for sure.

Thanks for the great report and look forward to the BA Inaugural one in September.

Philip


User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1895 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 16293 times:
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Hi Eric, the long awaited Cityjet report! First of all, I love the looks of that VG interior! Glad to see their service is still up to standards. I noticed you are still aiming for the DO328 as well? Did you find anything affordable for those flights? The trash in your seatpocket is really bad. As for the hurry of the crew, I had that on BA too. It's just too short a flight to really offer a decent full service flight I think. It would be a big loss to see VG go! I sure hope they'll continue their service for a time to come.

Thanks for sharing, and regards, Martijn



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16213 times:

Hi guys,

Quoting OA260 (Reply 1):
Thanks for the great report and look forward to the BA Inaugural one in September.

I'm looking forward to that flight also Philip! Thanks!

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 2):
As for the hurry of the crew, I had that on BA too. It's just too short a flight to really offer a decent full service flight I think.

No excuse about the time Martijn. VLM gives 2 crew for 50 pax on the F50. Cityjet 2 crew for about 80 pax. That means, especially with full loads, that crew almost can't complete the service duty. They better put 1 additional cabin crew on these flights, to provide a better service (but of course, that costs too much money for an airline like Air France-KLM/Cityjet).
And that's why Cityjet is the loser here, and VLM wins the game  Smile

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 2):
I noticed you are still aiming for the DO328 as well? Did you find anything affordable for those flights?

I will do such a flight anyway, price of ticket is an issue, but not the biggest issue for me. It will either become Cityjet, or Cirrus Air, or Sun-Air Scandinavia for me. But schedule wise is more a problem...

Regards,
Eric



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineVandenheuvel From Netherlands, joined Dec 2008, 502 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16211 times:

Hi Eric,

Thanks for this report. As always, I've enjoyed reading it.

I Like the details on those ground pics.

Tim,

Edit after reading previous comment. I have to add to this that KLM is sending an extra FA on most short 737 flights. But still no excuse for the lag of service on your flight.

[Edited 2009-08-23 08:23:21]

User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8578 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 16114 times:
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Hey Eric,

I've been looking forward to this, sorry we could not meet up, but thanks again for the saturday tour around AMS, really enjoyed that  Smile

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
I do not use Skyteam too often actually, and we’ll see what happens in the future. I’m so far not the biggest fan of the alliance

- Me neither, though I'll be flying AF & DL in November.

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
I made a shot of the City Airport hall, and then a police men came to me to tell me, in a friendly way though, that these pictures are not allowed. So I had a little chat with him, and although he agreed with my opinion that it really doesn’t make sense if I make such picture or not, he friendly requested me not to so again at the airport, on request of the owner of the airport. Fair enough, we had a good chat, and we understood eachother. No problems with it.

- Amazing how we seem to get caught out for these innocent pictures.

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
I will take the inauguration BA Emb170 flight LCY-AMS in September

- When is thuis Eric, might be able to join you.

Cheers

Mark



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineAkhmad From Netherlands, joined Sep 2005, 2487 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16023 times:

Hi Eric,

Nice TR!

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
Rotterdam City Scene in the morning

I love this pic of yours everytime.

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
Strange. I think the club of Transavia passengers took their chance for a free copy that morning

It could have been. VLM should put a notification like "For VLM passengers only, so keep your hands off!"

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
he friendly requested me not to so again at the airport, on request of the owner of the airport. Fair enough, we had a good chat, and we understood eachother. No problems with it.

Can not fault him. He was just doing his job! The owner of the airport is however just ridiculous.

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
row 6 is NO window!

Thanks for the tip.

Cheers,
Suryo



Friends forever
User currently offlineLH4116 From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 1714 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 15961 times:

Hi Eric,

Interesting report, a great sunday's read!  Smile

The inflight service on VLM looked very good as usual, and the pre flight candy + post meal chocolates seemed like very nice touches! Does VLM serve beer and wine? And do they provide real wine glasses or just the same tumblers?

I was a bit surprised to see what Cityjet served. I had always had in mind that they would only serve a bag of pretzels and a can of Perrier, or maybe a biscuit. But the sandwich looked rather nice, though the name was indeed strange. "Wholewheat bap", what's a bap anyway haha Big grin

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
The wine was a Chardonnay 'La Baume 2008'

IIRC I believe AF only serve that wine in Y on shorthaul flights, someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Thanks for sharing!  Smile
//Jonas



SAS Plus is Business Class made faux!
User currently offlineContact Air From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 1154 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15869 times:

Hi Eric,

Great report and pictures, very good comparison between these two airlines that will be one soon.

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
Beverages are served in glass and china on VLM. They still have the classy product.

That's what I call style - but I also doubt if they will keep it when merged into Cityjet.

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
My flight; it's giving incorrect weather information about Amsterdam!

Brrr, that's going to be cold...  Wink

Regards
Christoph


User currently offlineRogerbcn From Andorra, joined Sep 2006, 1209 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15815 times:

Hola Eric!

Thanks for this TR.

It is really intersting to see how thing are working in the airline industry nowadays, no doubt that when the merger is completed expect a step down in service... I wish it were the other way around, but I am afraid that is not going to happen.

Salut!

Roger



"At reise er at leve" H.C. Andersen (Travelling is Living)
User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 15748 times:

Hi guys, thanks for your reading and replies!

Quoting Vandenheuvel (Reply 4):
I have to add to this that KLM is sending an extra FA on most short 737 flights. But still no excuse for the lag of service on your flight.

Good job from KLM to say at least! Maybe big mama can tell the same to Cityjet?

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 5):
I will take the inauguration BA Emb170 flight LCY-AMS in September

- When is thuis Eric, might be able to join you.

Will PM you the details.

Quoting Akhmad (Reply 6):
I love this pic of yours everytime.

Especially for you Akhmad  Wink

Quoting Akhmad (Reply 6):
VLM should put a notification like "For VLM passengers only, so keep your hands off!"

Actually, that is written on the stand, but it was completely empty somehow...

Quoting Akhmad (Reply 6):
Thanks for the tip.

You're welcome  Wink

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 7):
Does VLM serve beer and wine?

Hi Jones, yes VLM does serve beer and wine.

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 7):
And do they provide real wine glasses or just the same tumblers?

At least the wine comes in a wine glass, nice glasses by the way, look good with the rest of my collection  Silly

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 7):
I had always had in mind that they would only serve a bag of pretzels and a can of Perrier, or maybe a biscuit.

You thought about a typical Air France styled product, but you were wrong this time  Wink

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 7):
what's a bap anyway

Maybe some of our British citizens can shine a light on this 'bap' ?

Quoting Contact Air (Reply 8):
Brrr, that's going to be cold...

LOL! Indeed, and I just found out when I uploaded this picture for the report. Didn't notice the mistake when there myself actually  Smile

Quoting Rogerbcn (Reply 9):
no doubt that when the merger is completed expect a step down in service... I wish it were the other way around, but I am afraid that is not going to happen.

The big companies cannot keep up such high service level, so it will be downgraded later on for sure. At least the china and glassware will leave and be replaced with plastic cups.

Regards,
Eric



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineFlyingFinn76 From Finland, joined Jun 2009, 1706 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 15555 times:

Hi Eric,

That's a nice little report with some great pictures. I flew VLM once last December and can agree with the high standard of service, friendly crew and very stylish beige seats and interiors on the Fokkers. And I'm definitely afraid that things will start heading downhill from here once they become fully integrated into the AF/KL mess.

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
FIDS

Interesting routing on that Transavia flight RTM-NRN-HER. Is this the standard routing to fill the plane from two different airports (I know NRN is in Germany but most people using it seem to be Dutch anyway) or just some irrops or special charter?

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
I must say, legroom was poor. Cityjet says 31’’, but this feels less though. The seats are small, and the 3-3 layout in the RJ-85 makes it feel more small.

Yeah, as I've mentioned in a couple of my reports there are now two leased Cityjet Avros flying for KF in Finland, retaining their original seating and boy is that uncomfortable. 3-3 just doesn't cut it and the minuscule legroom makes it an even more crappier experience. They should definitely consider introducing some modern slimline seating instead of the old thick leather seats, that would at least give some more space to the pax.

Oh yeah, and congrats on scoring on the "anything interesting in my seat pocket" bingo  Smile.

Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 10):
Maybe some of our British citizens can shine a light on this 'bap' ?

Once again, Wikipedia comes to the rescue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bap_%28bread%29 Actually "bap" reminds me of the Korean favorite, bibimbap  Smile.


User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 15490 times:

Hi, P.

Thanks for the reply and searchin the info on the bap;

First the bap, here is the info then:

Quote:
Bap (often a larger soft roll, roughly 5-6 inches in diameter). Dough can contain fats such as lard or butter to provide tenderness to dough. Can come in multiple shapes dependent on region. Baps as traditionally made in Scotland are not sweet, unlike the Irish version which may contain currants. The 9th Edition of the Concise Oxford Dictionary (1995) says that the word "bap" dates from the 16th century and that its origin is unknown.



Quoting FlyingFinn76 (Reply 11):
Interesting routing on that Transavia flight RTM-NRN-HER. Is this the standard routing to fill the plane from two different airports (I know NRN is in Germany but most people using it seem to be Dutch anyway) or just some irrops or special charter?

It's a normal package-deal charter.
Regional airport usually don't fill these planes completely, so they're doing a stop elsewhere.

Other routings done are xxx-GRQ-RTM or GRQ-EIN-xxx etc.
And it's done abroad also. I'm booked now on a flight which does AMS-JMK-JTR, 2 small destinations at once.

Quoting FlyingFinn76 (Reply 11):

Yeah, as I've mentioned in a couple of my reports there are now two leased Cityjet Avros flying for KF in Finland, retaining their original seating and boy is that uncomfortable.

That's interesting. If KF receives many complaints about it, maybe it will be changed?

I also think Cityjet should quickly order Embrear or Canadair jets for replacement. The RJ85's can need replacement in a few years from now.

Regards,
Eric



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineFlyingFinn76 From Finland, joined Jun 2009, 1706 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 15112 times:



Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 12):
It's a normal package-deal charter.
Regional airport usually don't fill these planes completely, so they're doing a stop elsewhere.
Other routings done are xxx-GRQ-RTM or GRQ-EIN-xxx etc.

I suspected something like that was going on. Was just wondering about the three digit flight number, usually charters get four digits or something. Anyway it would be great if HV would sell tickets for those short hops, as I'm pretty sure there would be a number of aviation geeks (me included!) willing to fly RTM-NRN, GRQ-EIN etc. for not much money  Smile

Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 12):
That's interesting. If KF receives many complaints about it, maybe it will be changed?

No dice, thinks me. Those two Avros are leased only for a year (unless they extend the deal) and in the current dire situation I don't think they are willing to spend any additional funds on cabin refurbishment. And I think KF is actually happy to have a couple of 100-seater Avros as these are usually flown on the trunk feeder routes to ARN and CPH which were operated by the RJ100s before those went away (to BA for expanding the LCY operation actually).

Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 12):
I also think Cityjet should quickly order Embrear or Canadair jets for replacement. The RJ85's can need replacement in a few years from now.

Hmm, according to Airfleets.net the CityJet Avros have an average age of 10.6 years, so not too old at the moment. Maybe in 5 years or so. Some E-jets would surely be good, I don't like CRJs that much. The -700 and -900 series are fine, but the older ones are just darn uncomfortable.


User currently offlineFLIEGER67 From UK - England, joined Sep 2003, 5177 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 14973 times:

Hi, Eric,

another well done LCY story and informative pix as well.
Something more from my point of view is coming up soon also, you know.
I remember VG also as a real personal airline experience and also Cityjet as not the best
one.

Regards,
Markus (FLIEGER67)



Next: London City connections!.
User currently offlineDebonair From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2460 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14704 times:



Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
I think we have to be afraid that the current VLM experience will be gone forever soon,

voilá:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michiel Van Rooy - Aviation Society Antwerp (ASA)



User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6903 posts, RR: 77
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14509 times:

Hi Eric,

great report with excellent pictures. Good to see a comparison - but it doesn't make me feel very optimistic about the future of VLM.

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
The sandwich was good, though the egg a bit plain indeed. It came with a coffee, and an orange juice. Beverages are served in glass and china on VLM. They still have the classy product.
After about 20 minutes, coffee was refilled, and Leonidas chocolates were offered in 3 choices: dark, milk or white.

Very impressive.

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
Cityjet says 31’’, but this feels less though. The seats are small, and the 3-3 layout in the RJ-85 makes it feel more small. Seats are blue leather, good condition.

I really dislike that 3-3 layout.

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
Cabin gave a good maintained impression, maybe because the aircraft is not yet too long in service with this airline.

It joined the fleet in November 2008.

Quoting Airbuseric (Thread starter):
The other crewmember came with drinks. I asked for a white wine, and that was given. With a plastic cup. The wine was a Chardonnay ‘La Baume 2008’. Not really my taste.

Goodbye, real glasses...


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineInfodesk From Switzerland, joined May 2006, 1464 posts, RR: 33
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14402 times:

Hi Eric,

I didn't know about the upcoming merger and agree it seems a real shame. The reports I've read here on VLM have always portrayed the airline in a very favourable light and it will be sad if service levels fall. Certainly Cityjet didn't seem nearly as good.

I liked your shots of the Hoek van Holland on take off and had no idea that Rotterdam has such big sky scrapers!

Bet you got a shock when you saw the incorrect temperature being shown for AMS  cold 

Many thanks for an informative read

Happy flying
Infodesk



"Do nothing in haste, look well to each step and from the beginning think what may be the end" - Edward Whymper
User currently offlineLHR380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14385 times:

Good TR.

Very nice to see the comparison between the 2 airlines. Once the merger has been completed you should try again and see what has changed.

Also very much looking frwd to the first Emb TR.

I have been to LCY once or twice but only to have a look, and have yet to fly out. One day maybe.


User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14136 times:

Hi again, just back myself from another trip.

Quoting FlyingFinn76 (Reply 13):
Was just wondering about the three digit flight number, usually charters get four digits or something.

In the Netherlands, many (or most)charters just use 3-digit numbers. HV regular operations use 4-digit.

Quoting FlyingFinn76 (Reply 13):
Some E-jets would surely be good, I don't like CRJs that much. The -700 and -900 series are fine, but the older ones are just darn uncomfortable.

I also didn't mean the CRJ100/200. Of course -700/-900/-1000 come to my mind. These are all really comfortable.

Quoting FLIEGER67 (Reply 14):
another well done LCY story and informative pix as well.
Something more from my point of view is coming up soon also, you know

Looking forward to it Markus.

Quoting FLIEGER67 (Reply 14):
I remember VG also as a real personal airline experience and also Cityjet as not the best
one.

So we share opinions here  Wink

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 16):
Good to see a comparison - but it doesn't make me feel very optimistic about the future of VLM.

Hi PH, yes, VG might go down the line....

Quoting Infodesk (Reply 17):
I liked your shots of the Hoek van Holland on take off and had no idea that Rotterdam has such big sky scrapers!

Thanks! btw, Rotterdam is the only city in the Netherlands that has a real 'Skyline' with tall buildings. Architecture is an important issue in this city, and some nice buildings and creatures can be found. It's not the savest city to be around, but it stays interesting with the buildings and good shopping too.

Quoting Infodesk (Reply 17):
Bet you got a shock when you saw the incorrect temperature being shown for AMS

I noticed it when I saw the pictures at home, so the shock came too late for me  Silly

Quoting LHR380 (Reply 18):
Once the merger has been completed you should try again and see what has changed.

Will fly the real VG again as long as they are around. But Cityjet cannot expect my business soon again. BA is also on this route, and maybe the better one now... Will fly BA's inaugural Emb170 flight later this month, to check them out.

Quoting LHR380 (Reply 18):
I have been to LCY once or twice but only to have a look, and have yet to fly out.

LCY is also a great airport to just watch the planes.

Regards,
Eric



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1712 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13667 times:

Hey Eric,

Nice comparison between 2 LCY-AMS/RTM operators, and what a difference.
I really hope those Fokkers will be around much longer and that the servicelevel will not decline.
However probably it will, so this era will be history soon.
Nice pictures as usual from your hand!

Looking fwd to your E70 report on BA  Smile
Groetjes,
Joost (D-ALCE)



flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,319,320,321,333,AB6.
User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4277 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 13067 times:

Hi Joost,
thanks for your kind comments!

Quoting DALCE (Reply 20):
I really hope those Fokkers will be around much longer and that the servicelevel will not decline.

Repainting into Cityjet colours is in progress now, so I guess they will fly around a while longer, but I'm not sure about that servicelevel...

Quoting DALCE (Reply 20):
Looking fwd to your E70 report on BA

Report is online already for about a week now. It was a good experience for me!

Regards,
Eric



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
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