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Swiss, Lufthansa & TAP In Business LIS-TXL-LIS  
User currently offlineDtswi From Portugal, joined Aug 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11255 times:

An interesting perspective: 3 best airlines in terms of reliability/maintenance - who left the best impression in service in business class?

I live in Algarve and like most of the time to get to Switzerland or Berlin I drive to Lisbon and take a plane from there as connections from the Algarve are limited.
On my way to Berlin this longer week-end, I took my miles earned with Tap /Victoria to get a "free" business flight (well, 215Euros in taxes to pay) from Lisbon to Berlin via Zurich with Swiss, and then return with Lufthansa/TAP via Munich.
(still don't understand that neither TAP nor Lufthansa offer a direct connection LIS-Berlin, leaving it to Easyjet... But yes, TAP has twice daily Lis-Hamburg connection...?! )

PS: Sorry for the average quality of my pictures - took them with my mobile phone, but we still get a feeling  Wink.

Check-in at Swiss counter was smooth and friendly as always (managed by Portway Co. for Swiss) - I had done online check in the night before so I just needed to give my checked luggage. I got the green sticker to pass through the faster "green way" for security check and made my way to the very close TAP/Star alliance business lounge: very modern, appealing, in all white background with light effects (am I in a private club waiting for my martini?) and stools in red/green TAP colors - very refreshing, new, and calming atmosphere with helpful staff at the counter - internet with my laptop was free, I just needed to get a code/passwd at the counter. Very good variety of fingerfood and drinks choice & magazines - sorry, I do not have pictures of it. One negative: the restrooms were not in the best clean state!

flight was called and I processed to the near gate: long queue of passengers boarding! I went straight to the front and asked the attendant if I could board the plane - no problem, business passengers may board at any time and don't have to wait so she let me in - thank you  Smile

LIS-ZRH Swiss HB-IJE (A320) Arosa_ Sept, 3rd, 2009
dep. Lis 12:31 arr. Zrh 15:47h (on time)

the a320 was full, but boarding was quick and efficient. We were handed out a bottle of water and wet tissue right at the beginning, which was nice (not the case with Lufthansa and Tap on my return flight).
2 choices of main menu (no menu card handed out like on TAP): Hirschragout (deer) or vegetarian (pancake sort of). I had the Hirsch - very tasteful!
Attentive staff, but not over-doing it.

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Swiss A320 taking-off over Lisbon
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swiss business a320
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mesclun salad, deer ragout with spaetzle, cheese & Gamay red wine
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coffee, chocolate and mousse with pear, fruit bread
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on approach over Zurich lake
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highway short before landing in Zrh
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a few seconds before touch down in Zrh
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on the way to parking position in Zrh


strong winds were announced by the pilot on our descent to Zrh, but landing turned out to be really smooth.
Arriving at Zrh airport: you get an immediate civilized, warm and cosy feeling: dimmed lights, good air circulation, big windows with view on the runway, sophisticated in-architecture. I love Zurich. and everything is so calm... Where is the massage salon  Wink?


I made my way to the swiss business lounge - friendly staff at the desk this time (last year I had a rather snobbish greeting).

Zrh-Berlin Tegel sept 3rd, 2009 HB-IPX A319
on time door closing (off. depart. time 17:40h), but wait because of high traffic. Take off 18:15h - on time arrival 19:14h in Tegel.

Speedy boarding onto swiss connecting flight to Berlin and warm welcome on board.
Again, water & tissue - and light meal was nicely served with silverware on this 1 hour short flight ! Of course I took another Gamay swiss red wine, he, he
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swiss business lounge in Zrh
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swiss business lounge in Zrh
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the longest bar in the world - smoking permitted
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free choice of Moevenpick ice creams
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modern architecture, relaxing atmosphere, dimmed lightening

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zrh airport
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helvetic fokker 100 and swiss 321 ahead of us
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nice take off from zrh rwy 28 head west
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dry meat from Grisons & creme brulee, silverware on this short flight Zrh-Berlin!
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we flew 1'050 km/h , here some 190km before landing in Berlin
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finals Berlin Tegel - passing TV tower and Tempelhof airport in the back
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east to west landing at Tegel view on TV tower


Overall very pleased with Swiss service, friendly personnel, quality food, nice presentation.
Pilots have been informative as well, which I think is important (announcement of imminent take off & info on approach).

Return flight:

Sept 7, 2009: Lufthansa business Berlin-Munich D-AISP
brand new A321 manuf. Jan 2009
dep. Berlin Tegel 11:28 (official 11:10h),
arr. Munich 12:30

Like always with Lufthansa: efficient check-in at counter. Nice interior of new A321 (no screens though...), quick boarding.
Unfortunately, we were only asked about magazines/papers at the beginning and no drink was served. The one person staff in business was busier with himself (having coffee and breakfast behind shut curtain) than customer orientated. IS IT SO COMPLICATED TO pop in the business class and ask passengers if all is ok?
I had to use 2 times the bell to call him, just to get a bottle of water or some bread...He was never unpolite, but he had that kind of "could care less" attitude. Not good.
Meal: tasty (Gurkensalad, salami sandwich, Vanille-Mango mousse), but very cheap presentation: the charm of economy in business, welcome to the world of plastic ! Spoon with sharp edge to easy cut your tongue...
The economy feel was to be found in the toilet of business again: no hand/body lotion like in Swiss.
We were then served a nice truffle confiserie, but: no coffee served together with it?


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a good old Lufthansa 733 at Tegel  Smile
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brand new Lufthansa 321 - manuf. jan 2009 - nice, but no info screen?
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never seen that bird before... Tegel preparation of take off
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take off from Tegel - the wing behing that far back: yes, it is A321  Wink
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Nice view over the Berliner lakes
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the plastic eco charm-Lufthansa business and Samsung advert flyer
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did it come out of the vending machine? Plastic stick replaces plastic spoon
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nicely packed 2 truffles confiserie
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Munich airport from the sky - sexy  Smile
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approach in Munich
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Our neighbouring plane on taxi in Munich: USair 767


It was my 1st time in Munich and I was I guess expecting too much - or maybe just on a unimpressive connecting terminal...? The atmosphere did not have the charm of Zurich - was more like an industry hangar. Did some shopping (textile) at exclusive brand name-store, but personnel was very unhelpful and did not seem to know what he was doing.

But worse: the Lufthansa business lounge was... terrible: in the 45 minutes that I stayed there, all Computer terminals and the majority of tables still were full of trash & plates left by former users. Nothing had been cleaned! i finally complained about it to a friendly Lufthansa desk assistant (I had to go down the stairs again to get her, as there is no assistance on the same level) who said she would tell the food/cleaning crew...
The atmosphere there again was cold and no view on the tarmac etc. see the pictures. I was really expecting something much better. more modern and updated. Anyway, maybe I was just in an older terminal ?


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a hangar feel
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Lufthansa business lounge in Munich - big, but rather dirty and cold
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left overs from former users everywhere !


Flight MUC-LIS TAP, CS-TNL A320 (manuf. jan 2000)
off. dep. time: 14:25, door closed at 14:45h, take off 15:02h
arrival Lisbon on time 16:42h (flight time 2:45h.)

Heading to the gate, I had time to stroll around and watch the planes, get a very tasty Bockwurst with Pretzel  Smile - saw a beautiful 346 Lufthansa with next to her her baby Swiss Jumbolino Avro100 ! Incredible size difference, but the Avro had 4 engines too  tongue  he he he
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mother LH346 and her baby LXavro100  Wink


Warm welcome in TAP business. Menu card (wow) handed out with 2 choices of main menu (veal or pasta) and we were asked if we wished an aperitif first (very nice)
Oh: and a hot towel came (veeeeeery nice).
But as much as the 1st impression was good, unfortunately there was no follow-up on passengers afterwards: same "close curtain" policy like on Ber-Muc Lufthansa flight, with a young Maitre de Cabine talking and talking with his colleague behind it and even checking messages on his mobile phone (that could be seen when I went to the toilet). There again, I had to use the bell button to call him.
Also the video screen was only black & white (was something broken?)
Smooth flight, like always nice approach on Lisbon and landing. But please, no.... : we had to park outside and got a bus back to the terminal: no air co, over full , have to wait for other passengers to board the bus- who likes it ??? You pay a 1'200Euros ticket with TAP in business and get that? No thank you !!! I had 2 business px telling me: "es ist wie Viehtransport" (it's like animal transport)...


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TAP business A320
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menu card in TAP business MUC-LIS
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beautiful pasta main course creation of Vitor Sobral-Cabriz Reserva red wine
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the alternative: veal, also very good
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over Lausanne & Lac Leman in TAP320 Muc-Lis
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nice view over Geneva with airport & fountain - I studied there 4 years  Wink
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the big lake region about 40 min before landing in Lisbon
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the charm of the past at Lisbon airport - Bus instead of tunnel


The arrival terminal in Lisbon is really old and baggage claim service too slow. Oh well, the new airport at Alcochete is coming some time in 9-10 years... Smile Then I save 15 more minutes drive from The Algarve (now it takes only 2 hours from Algarve to Lisbon airport by car: 18 ,60E one way highway toll, so it's ok.
Parking: I paid 72 Euros in P3 from Thursday 11 am until Monday 17:40h, so it's rather cheap.)

Hope you had fun reading it- to recap: all 3 airlines are serious ones you want to fly on: safe, efficient and in principle with good on board service. Now it all depends on the crew: one time it is good, one time it is bad, like with any other airline but I must say from my experience that Swiss is not to be topped currently as it is very stable in service quality.

I think  Wink let the discussion start!

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26844 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11145 times:

Nice report . LX good as usual , LH very dissapointing and TAP very nice.

Thnaks for sharing

OA260


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11089 times:

Thanks for your TR.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 1):
You pay a 1'200Euros ticket with TAP in business and get that? No thank you !!!

I had the same feeling with BA arriving @ BCN. Who likes to pay for a J ticke and wait in a bus for almost 30 min?? Plus, my bags came out last, there you go with priority......

At LIS I had to board to a remote stand, but that was with Vueling, so you get what you paid for. BTW, beautiful city....


Cheers


777jaah



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlineTk747 From Australia, joined Sep 2009, 339 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10737 times:

Nice report!. Swiss and TAP seem great, LH not so.

User currently offlineMusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10541 times:

Nice report, thank you very much.

Hows the load on all these flights? Surely, LX looks the most appealing, I hope they will keep the service, they are surely one of the best airlines around!

regards
musapapaya



Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineDtswi From Portugal, joined Aug 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 10351 times:



Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 4):

Thank you all for your feed-back so far  Smile I enjoyed doing it.

The load was pretty high I must say on all flights - probably 85% with the Swiss flight Lis-Zrh looking like a 98%...


User currently offlineSandroZRH From Switzerland, joined Feb 2007, 3427 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10150 times:

Hey, nice report! Glad LX came out on top, with LH being rather disappointing. Too bad we don't serve LIS twice daily, and a nightstop there would be just awesome!

Quoting Dtswi (Thread starter):
nice take off from zrh rwy 28 head west

Not o be nitpicky, but you actually departed from RWY32, you landed on RWY28 instead  Wink That's the typical outfit when we have strong westerly winds.


User currently offlineAH332 From Algeria, joined Mar 2007, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9946 times:

Hi,

Thanks for the report! Nice to see a TP report. I flew them this summer, on the first leg of a euro trip after studying abroad in Lisbon for a month. The routing was LIS-NCE. Was in eco. on a 319 with perhaps 15-20 passengers on board!!!!

It was a nice flight though, won't hesitate to book them again especially for the price I got. Plus, I think the TP FA uniform look so sexy!  

Quoting Dtswi (Thread starter):
(still don't understand that neither TAP nor Lufthansa offer a direct connection LIS-Berlin, leaving it to Easyjet... But yes, TAP has twice daily Lis-Hamburg connection...?! )

I too find some of TP's routings strange. Like direct flight to ZAG and 3 daily NCE flights! Haha, anyway it sure made for an interesting array of destinations on the FIDS at LIS.

Cheers,
Imad

[Edited 2009-09-08 19:33:50]


Bledi Heya Al Djazaeer! // Next Flights: AB MIA-DUS-ORY, AF ORY-MRS-ALG
User currently offlineDtswi From Portugal, joined Aug 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9669 times:



Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 6):

Thank you for correcting me Sandro - of course it was take off from rway 32.

In case you are in Lisbon one night, let me know and we should meet for a drink in Bairro alto
 Wink

Any way you could talk to Swiss to start direct route Lis-Berlin??
May sound like a joke, but actually it is now possible for any airline in Europe to offer any connection, isn't it?
Lufthansa is too concentrated on MUC & FRA and I never got a feed back from TAP  banghead 


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9500 times:

Thanks. Most interesting trip report.

Quoting Dtswi (Reply 8):
Any way you could talk to Swiss to start direct route Lis-Berlin??
May sound like a joke, but actually it is now possible for any airline in Europe to offer any connection, isn't it?

From the legal point of view you are right. Even SWISS, as legally still a Swiss airline, although LH owns all shares, is allowed to fly any route in Europe because of the so called bilateral contracts between Switzerland and the EU. But I fear that the route LIS-BER is not in the interest of SWISS because with their European flights they mainly feed the long-haul destinations.


User currently offlineDtswi From Portugal, joined Aug 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9392 times:



Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Reply 9):

Thank you ZRH - mmm... yes, I can see that.

It is definitely a TAP call (imagine how many px they can get from Berlin further to Brazil!)

Don't know what TAP has in their mind... It is a nice, reliable Airline (TAp is doing maintenance for many other Co's)

- POR FAVOR PENSA MAIS UMA VEZ SR. Pinto !!! Obrigado.

But I quit on making suggestions to them - imagine they have no direct connection to any european city from Faro !!! True !

Anybody out there who can help ?


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8484 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9301 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Nice report & pictures, thanks for posting, really enjoyed, especially as we don't get to see too many TP TR's here.

LX look great was pretty much always, nice food!

LH, seems ok for a domestic, though crew could be better.

TP, food looks reasonable, service, not so sure.

Thanks

Mark



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333,342
User currently offlineDtswi From Portugal, joined Aug 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9135 times:

Thank you BA 319-131.

I must repeat of course again that it all depends on the crew on board-in TAP the crew was nice and polite, but too "passive", only reacting after I called them. Now it maybe that another crew would have been better - this is always the case with any airline... I must say that with Swiss out of my 6 last flights, all have been good as far as "customer orientated" service.

What was terrible is the eco plastic charm in business in LH ! And the coffee served with plastic stick...! Bad.
Not to mention the impact on the environment !
And the LH steward eating his breakfast, drinking coffee and chatting with another colleague behind shut curtain, ignoring px...
Can't tolerate that, sorry.


User currently offlineTaichen From Spain, joined Jul 2001, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8949 times:

Very nice ! I am always keen on reading TP reports , I have a soft spot for them... LH very disappointing, and indeed it looks like a simple Y meal from some years ago... very sad, LH.

It always amazes me how LH has effectively reduced Berlin to a minor destination in their network. Did TP fly there in the past ? anyhow, I guess an a.netter does not care about having to connect ! :P


User currently offlineDtswi From Portugal, joined Aug 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8796 times:

Thank you Taichen !

Yes the question of Berlin as new hub for LH and the question of Ber-Lis direct connection interest me and I did send a message to both TAP and Lufthansa... I doubt I will get any satisfactory answer other than " we thank, you for your feed-back and be sure we will take knowledge of it bla bla"...

I don't think wether TAP nor LH ever flew to Berlin (from Lis) in the past. Pls anybody correct me if I am wrong.


User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8448 times:

Thanks alot for a very interesting TR!

Quoting Dtswi (Thread starter):
But worse: the Lufthansa business lounge was... terrible: in the 45 minutes that I stayed there, all Computer terminals and the majority of tables still were full of trash & plates left by former users. Nothing had been cleaned! i finally complained about it to a friendly Lufthansa desk assistant (I had to go down the stairs again to get her, as there is no assistance on the same level) who said she would tell the food/cleaning crew...
The atmosphere there again was cold and no view on the tarmac etc. see the pictures. I was really expecting something much better. more modern and updated. Anyway, maybe I was just in an older terminal ?

I have had exactly the same experience in LH's lounges in both MUC and FRA.
That goes for both LH's Business and First class lounges.

In addition, there is no free WiFi either, which is not up to standard 2009.

I always find LH's airplanes in top condition, even their oldest 737's. Just wondering why they can't make their lounges just as good?



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlineDtswi From Portugal, joined Aug 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8340 times:

Thank you Asiaflyer,
yes this is right: no free Wi-fi in the LH business class - only free use of PC's...

Definitely outdated.


User currently offlineDtswi From Portugal, joined Aug 2001, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 7634 times:

Hi everyone,

I just received a reply from Lufthansa (I wrote to them to complaint about the bad service on board BER-MUC and the dirty business lounge in MUC): they apologized, felt sorry for the bad experience and said they did speak to the steward in question about his unprofessional behaviour.
This is good, at least a reaction, but no word on the business lounge in Munich...

No reply from TAP yet.

cheers,
D.


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