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Pakistan Int'l PK 796: 19/JUN/10: ORD-BCN: J Cabin  
User currently offlineabrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5097 posts, RR: 55
Posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 32767 times:

Feedback always appreciated.




I > Background:
As some of you are aware, I am “junkie” for 5th freedom flying. Since I was in Chicago for work, I decided that it was time to take advantage of Pakistan Airlines’ (PIA) recently launched KHI-BCN-ORD flight. Barcelona is one of my favorite cities in the world, and any excuse was good enough to visit friends. So without much thought, I bought a ticket on the PK flight and then found a rather cheap Avianca connection to CCS via BOG for a week home. As a side note for those interested, PK’s JCL fare was probably the cheapest J-ticket I have bought in my life for a trans-Atlantic flight. Even more remarkable given the lie-flat seat that you get. More on that later.

There is an absolute dearth of PIA reports on A.Net. The ones I could find were The777Man’s excellent coverage of a ORD-MAN flight (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/55073) and the always awesome UK_Dispatcher’s report on KHI-HKG (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/107547). This will be the first report on their ORD-BCN flight, the first involving North America in JCL, and the first featuring their “new” product in Business Class.

II > Pre-Flight:

a) Before Airport:
Pakistan International Airlines, commonly known as PIA, is the flag carrier airline of Pakistan. The airline is based at Karachi and operates scheduled services to 24 domestic destinations and 39 international destinations in 25 countries across Asia, Europe and North America.

PIA’s website at www.piac.com.pk has gone through some amazing improvements and is now actually quite easy to navigate and use. This is probably for the best as their OTA distribution on the web is abysmal, and they still rely heavily on ethnic agents to sell their tickets. Within minutes, I was able to buy my ticket, select my seat, and even modify it online. The only thing you cannot do is change your reservation … which is only a minor issue.

However, my theory of not many people using the website for their tickets was confirmed when I received a call from PIA Chicago office (thank God, I gave them my U.S. mobile number) which warned me that I was not going to allowed on the flight without the card in my possession and supporting ID.

b) At Airport:
Like most other foreign carriers, PIA uses the international terminal 5 at Chicago’s O’Hare airport. Its counter is situated at the far left of the check-in area, and separated by Alitalia from the Air India counter. I wonder what happens during cricket matches between these two countries  . Anyways, J class had a separate check-in … which was nice … as Pakistanis travel with more luggage than Colombians (sorry guys) … and Y class check-in was taking forever. It made me wonder how much PK makes on excess baggage fees.

At check-in, I was requested to present 3 forms of ID and my original credit card. A tad too much I thought? Is fraud really such a concern in Pakistan? I had lived there in the past and didn’t think so … but perhaps our Pakistani A.Netters can tell us more. Anyways, the check-in agent had not seen a Liechtenstein passport and had to look at TIM to see if I needed a visa for Europe … LOL. After deeming me fit to enter the old Continent, I was given my boarding pass and issued a lounge pass. She was shocked to hear that I had no check-in luggage …

After a rather long security process (what’s up with ORD having no premium lines?) filled with American families taking their summer break and being stunned by the liquid restrictions (can someone remind them that most of these attacks have targeted their jetliners?), I made it to the rather unimpressive (and quiet) T5 at ORD. PIA uses the Air France lounge at ORD, which I know very well … however, it was nice at this time of the evening as the AM, AF, and KL flights had all departed and the lounge was rather empty. The lounge is nothing special … has the basic bar option and some rudimentary snacks. It affords great views of the apron, and free wifi. What was interesting was that half the lounge was PIA crew and staff. Now, in all my travels, I have never seen crew members use the lounge facility that passengers use. What do y’all think?

There was no mention, but boarding was delayed … it was 6,45pm and the crew were still at the lounge. Anyways, around 7,30pm boarding was called, and I made my way to the boarding area where I must have been one of three white persons … and only one in J-class. While waiting for the boarding, I struck up a conversation with an Indian who was telling me how the check-in staff was a little perplexed when he went and guided him to the Air India counter. He mentioned that the front line girl had to check with the supervisor on whether Indians were allowed on-board. He was quite amused by the whole thing and wondered what kind of attention he would get on board. We both agreed though that the J class tickets were an absolute steal!

When boarding was called, there was a mad dash to get onboard … “ILBST” was well alive. However, the PIA staff were very good at enforcing JCL boarding and we made our way to the aircraft. Interestingly, just post boarding pass scan, there were 2 tough looking Immigration staff members who were “randomly” screening passengers and asking for their passports. Now, I had NEVER seen this in the U.S. and wonder if it is just reserved for PIA flights? One of the men started yelling at why he was single handedly called out … yelling was probably not a good idea as I did not see the man later on board.

Upon boarding, I got a nice warm welcome from the crew as I made my way to the seat. The boarding process was a little haphazard ... but the crew kept busy with offerings of juices (orange/pineapple), newspapers, and finally, skimpy hot towels. J load of 90%; Y load was 95%. However, I would venture that over 50% of the J load were non-revenue passengers as I personally spoke with 3 of them, and sat next to the wife of a former PK 747 pilot.

>Airport - External:

(Chicago’s O’Hare Airport, Terminal 5)

*

Check-in:

(Counters)


(And the bags … all of this belonged to 1 person)


Airport - Internal:

*

*
(FIDS)

*
(Post Security @ ORD)

Scenes of the tarmac:

(LX’s beautiful 340 to ZRH)

*

*


Lounge

(Air France lounge)

*
(Never seen crews in lounge)

*
Boarding:

(Boarding gate area)


(“ILBST” in action)


III> In-Flight:

a) Service Schedule + Impressions:
If I was taking this flight for business purposes, I’d be annoyed with the S-L-O-W service delivery on the flight. On an evening trans-Atlantic departure, dinner service should be rushed and done with cabin lights dimmed … this was not the case at PIA where everything happened with too much pomp. Guess PK’s clientele demands the same … though, both Kuwait and Air India does a decent job of balancing both. Prior to take off, drinks were offered, along with luke warm towels. After take-off, the skimpiest JCL blankets and pillows were distributed, followed by an economy class amenity kit (seriously PIA, I wanted your old amenity kit so badly), and (now officially tied with SATA as) probably the worst set of headphones I have ever been offered in Business Class anywhere in the world. Menus were distributed post take-off, and both meal services were very elegant trolley service.

b) Aircraft + Seats:
PIA’s Boeing 777-200 was in good condition and rather well maintained. Bathrooms were well maintained throughout the flight … though, I was disappointed at the lack of amenities … only toothbrush and toothpaste … again, very Y-class.
The seat itself was a very average lie-flat seat … sort of reminded me of the seats on Air France. Now, I am not a fan of these seats and I even prefer old-style J seats to these. The only other decent angled J for me was on the old SQ. However, in PK’s defense, I must say that you were getting an extremely good value on the seats. In seating position, the seats are great … but in the lie-flat position, you struggle as the leg rest is awkwardly placed and makes your body slip into an uncomfortable position.

Aircraft:
(My hidden 772 @ ORD)


Views from Aircraft:


*

*
(And, then the Star love fest)


General Seat Views + Seat Legroom

(Seat)

*
(Seat controls)

*
(Seat area)

*
(Legroom)

*
(Slightly akward)

*
(Blanket – kinda skimpy)

Seat Recline + Angle View:


(The final part – foot area of the seat rest made the seat mediocre in lie-flat mode)


Cabin:


*

*
(Bathroom Amenities)


c) Meal + Beverage:
Dinner took forever to be served – on a late evening flight of such length, there really is no excuse for the entire service to take 2+ hours. Meal service was from the trolley and consisted of a super fresh salad, a really nice soup, and then an assortment of Pakistani food to chose from the trolley. The food was absolutely delicious and I even went for seconds. The chicken curry and the chicken kababs were both restaurant quality, and the rice was soft and warm. Just perfect food … presentation from the trolley was classy … though, the ambience was slightly taken away as the meals were still in tin foil from restaurants … and, what’s up with the plastic cutlery? Dessert was a cake or a Pakistani dish … I chose the latter and was pleasantly surprised. The Pakistani woman sitting next to me thought it was horrible and had a word with the cabin crew. Again, I thought it was fine … but am sure that she is a better judge than I am!

Breakfast was served 2 hours prior to landing. Again, while I appreciated the glamor of the trolley service, it could have done much faster. Also, I know that the purser was yelling at the ORD ground handlers for not loading cutlery … now I realized why. The meal was served on paper plates (and again, with plastic cutlery). Not too classy for JCL! I was full from the dinner, so did not venture much into the breakfast options. However, there were enough options including two trolley services – the first one consisting of cereal and yoghurt; the second one having sausages (slightly nasty looking), and a little dried omelets and scrambled eggs.

All in all, I maintain that meal options on South Asian carriers are generally the best in the world, and PIA did not disappoint. While there is much to be said about the actual presentation, the quality and quantity of food was incredible. The dinner was especially restaurant quality and amongst the best meals I have had on a plane. Pakistan Airlines should be significantly praised for this … and be gently reminded that a truly memorable experience also factors in presentation.

Finally, PIA is a dry-airline. While it did not bother me on this flight, and I recognize religious sensibilities, I hoped alcohol would have been offered to those who were not practicing Islam. After all, this is a global industry … and the flight connected 2 non-Islamic countries. Not a super deal breaker however.

(Menu)

*

*

*

*
(Dinner)

*

*

*
(Trolley service)

*
(Yummy seconds)

*

*

*
(Thoughtful water for the night)

*
(Breakfast)

*


d) Inflight Entertainment:
IFE on PIA consisted of 12 movies in 1st generation AVOD format. The quality and quantity of movies were not spectacular and I was amused to find the presence of 3 Indian movies. I was convinced Indian movies were banned from being shown in Pakistani theatres? Anyways, for old-time sake, I made the “mistake” of watching a Pakistani movie called “Mera Naam Hai Mohabat” which did not have any subtitles, but one could guess the plot by just staring at the screen. What was uniquely interesting was how much Pakistani society had become conservative since the 1960’s. It sort of reminded me of Egypt in the 1960’s vs. Egypt today. Maybe, the Pakistanis on the board can correct my perception?

Anyways, the IFE also included a decent selection of music and television programming as well. However, nothing could hide the abysmal headsets given out. There really is no excuse for this in YCL! Supplementing the AVOD options were the always amusing in-flight magazine “Humsafar”, and several Pakistani magazines which all had depressing headlines.

(IFE)

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*
(Pakistani flick…)

*
(…featuring a new find)

*
(Abysmal Headphones)

*
(Lots of videos on how to “behave” on board)

*
(“In-flight magazines”, Boarding Passes, etc.)


e) Crew:
South Asians do their hospitality right. I am a huge fan of crew on board Sri Lankan Airlines, and on most of the Indian carriers (particularly, Air India). PIA was no different. Overall, most of the crew was warm and genuinely cared about the passengers onboard. During boarding, they were nice and attentive and walked me to my seat. They also genuinely checked with me throughout the flight to make sure I was enjoying the same. Some highlights:

+ During the meal service, I had requested my tea with saccharine/sugar-free and some milk. On subsequent requests, this one crew member remembered the same each time.
+ After each meal offering, they would check and see if I needed something else, or if I was sufficiently happy.
+ At duty free sales, the purser took time to explain the evolution of the colorful buses present in Karachi.

Of course, the crew wasn’t perfect. First off, there was this one rather “fundamentalist” crew member who was apparently not too happy with the alcohol purchased at the duty free by a passenger in seat 1C and they got into an argument. It was not his business! Also, the crew was a little too laid back during the meal service for my liking. Just like the boarding process, it was generally accepted to be very mellow and totally OK not to rush things. With this attitude, no wonder the flight took off over an hour behind schedule.

IV> Post-Flight:
Arrival into Barcelona was smooth as the captain pointed out to watch out for the city several times during the flight. Disembarkation was fast ... though, the weird layout of the airport meant going through arrivals security check, immigration, and then a long walk to the exits.

(BCN Airport)


V> Impressions + Scores:
In terms of value for money, PIA is probably the best across the Atlantic right now. True, this is a limited offering on ORD-BCN, but nevertheless. For around USD 795,00, I was getting a lie-flat seat that was significantly better than other “random” options such as Icelandair and SATA. Topping that was very nice food (especially dinner), basic AVOD, and a warm dedicated crew. Where PIA fails is the attention to detail … the cutlery and presentation in JCL is absolutely unacceptable; the headphones given are sad; some of the crew could be more professional; and, the overall service must be refined. Without these changes, PIA will never be taken seriously, or compete with the true major airlines of the world.

Having said that, I will gladly fly PIA, and will even seek them out on routes where they compete against more established options. One thumb up.



VI> Other Trip Reports:

PREMIUM:
8.66: Brussels Airlines (93): FIH-BRU: 01/2010
8.64: Turkish Airlines (59): JFK-IST: 11/2008
8.63: Jet Airways (88): JFK-BRU: 10/2009
8.61: Air Canada (49): YYZ-SCL: 06/2008
8.54: Turkish Airlines (77): GRU-DKR-IST: 04/2009
8.36: Kingfisher (98): BOM-HKG: 01/2010
8.30: Jet Airways (74): KWI-BOM: 04/2009
8.23: United Airlines (72): SFO-SYD: 03/2009
8.11: Aeroflot (33): MOW-DEL: 09/2007
8.05: Air India (80): CCU-JFK: 06/2009
8.04: Korean Air (40): NRT-ICN: 10/2007
8.02: Delta Airlines (24): JFK-CDG: 08/2007
7.64: Royal Jordanian (91): AMM-YUL: 12/2009
7.57: Pakistan Airlines (102): ORD-BCN: 06/2010
7.46: LAN (55): YYZ-JFK: 09/2008
7.82: Singapore Airlines (06): EWR-SIN: 09/2006
7.25: Iran Air (88): BOM-IKA: 12/2009
7.23: Virgin Atlantic (81): BOS-LHR: 07/2009
7.14: Swiss (52): SCL-GRU: 06/2008
7.11: Austrian (79): VIE-JFK: 06/2009
7.07: Privatair (84): BOM-FRA: 08/2009
7.02: Qatar (68): DOH-JFK: 01/2009
6.96: Etihad (61): JFK-AUH: 12/2008
6.93: Delta Airlines (18): SEA-JFK: 11/2006
6.84: ConViasa (65): CCS-DAM: 01/2009
6.81: Air Canada (17): ICN-YYZ: 10/2006
6.70: KLM (32): EBB-AMS: 08/2007
6.52: Emirates (99): LHR-DXB: 02/2010
6.39: South African (97): EZE-JNB: 01/2010
6.36: Privatair (60): MUC-BOS: 12/2008
6.29: TAM Brasil (96): POA-EZE: 02/2010
6.25: Korean Air (45): NAN-ICN: 10/2007
6.21: Iberia (87): BOS-MAD: 10/2009
6.11: TAP Portugal (53): GRU-OPO: 06/2008
6.00: Gulf Air (75): BOM-BAH: 04/2009
5.88: African Express (89): DXB-NBO: 11/2009
5.75: Singapore Airlines (16): CCU-SIN: 10/2006
5.64: SATA Azores (101): BOS-PDL: 04/2010
5.64: NorthWest (46): ICN-NRT-SEA: 10/2007
5.54: Ethiopian Airlines (95): ADD-BOM: 01/2010
5.46: Icelandair (83): KEF-BOS: 08/2009
5.39: LOT (54): WAW-JFK: 06/2008
5.21: Egypt Air (73): CAI-IST: 02/2009
5.07: TACA (66): JFK-SAP: 01/2009
4.42: Air France: CDG-JNB (25): 08/2007

ECONOMY: Long + Medium:
9.26: Air India (48): JFK-DEL: 02/2008
7.38: Avianca (01): BOG-LIM: 07/2006
7.07: Sri Lankan (62): KWI-CMB: 12/2008
7.00: LAN (94): IPC-SCL: 01/2010
6.41: Avianca (78): JFK-BOG: 05/2009
6.41: American Airlines (58): LHR-BOS: 11/2008
6.39: Condor (85): SEZ-FRA: 09/2009
6.26: Jet Blue (21): CUN-JFK: 02/2007
6.06: Air Canada (04): YYZ-YVR: 09/2006
5.89: USA 3000 (19): PUJ-BDL: 01/2007
5.85: Spanair (69): MAD-LPA: 02/2009
5.79: Air New Zealand (42): RAR-NAN: 10/2007
5.52: Aerolineas (86): USH-AEP: 10/2009
5.46: TAP Air Portugal (23): OSL-LIS: 05/2007
5.19: Air Europa (70): LPA-MAD: 02/2009
5.16: Iberia (71): MAD-BOS: 02/2009
5.11: Air China (82): FRA-PEK: 08/2009

ECONOMY: Short
8.56: Paramount Airways (38): BLR-MAA: 09/2007
8.56: Kingfisher (64): HYD-CCU: 12/2008
8.24: Kingfisher (14): IXA-GAU: 10/2006
7.87: Indian (34): BOM-MAA: 09/2007
7.72: Alliance Air (13): CCU-IXA: 10/2006
7.57: Indian Airlines (10): DEL-CCU: 09/2006
7.23: West Jet (03): YYC-YVR: 09/2006
7.15: JetLite (37): BOM-GOI: 09/2007
6.98: Air Koryo (100): PEK-FNJ: 04/2010
6.70: Spice Jet (09): CCU-DEL: 09/2006
6.63: Air Fiji (44): NAN-SUV: 10/2007
6.63: Jazeera (67): DAM-KWI: 01/2009
6.58: Air Tran (02): EWR-MDW: 08/2006
6.48: Air India Express (63): CMB-MAA: 12/2008
6.44: CO Micronesia (39): ROR-YAP: 10/2007
6.41: Pacific Sun (43): NAN-SUV: 10/2007
6.37: Skybus (47): SWF-CMH: 02/2008
6.33: Kenya Airways (29): NBO-BJM: 08/2007
6.33: Sky Europe (56): LTN-BTS: 10/2008
6.31: Indigo (15): GAU-CCU: 10/2006
6.31: easyJet (57): BUD-LTN: 11/2008
6.22: Air Link Swazi (28): MTS-JNB: 08/2007
6.22: Air India (36): HYD-BOM: 09/2007
6.13: Adam Air (07): SIN-CGK: 09/2006
6.13: Air Rarotonga (41): RAR-AIT: 10/2007
6.00: Transairways (27): INH-MPM: 08/2007
5.95: Air Canada (05): ALB-YYZ: 09/2006
5.85: SAS Norge (22): OSL-AES: 05/2007
5.81: LAM Mozambique (26): JNB-MPM: 08/2007
5.69: Air Deccan (12): IXZ-CCU: 10/2006
5.67: Rwanda Air Exp (30): KGL-NBO: 08/2007
5.37: Felix Airways (92): SCT-SAH: 12/2009
5.11: Aero Republica (76): BOG-CCS: 04/2009
5.07: Go Air (35): MAA-HYD: 09/2007
5.00: Sky Airline (51): IQQ-SCL: 06/2008
4.96: Valuair (08): CGK-SIN: 09/2006
4.78: Air Comet Chile (50): SCL-IQQ: 06/2008
4.74: Fly 540 (31): MYD-LAU: 08/2007
4.33: Viva Aerobus (20): ELP-MTY: 02/2007
4.11: Air Sahara (11): CCU-BOM: 09/2006

(Note on Codes: Y – Economy, J – Business, F – First :: I/D – International/Domestic :: SR/MR/LR – Short/Medium/Long Haul)
(Note on Date: Dates are modified to be +/- 3 days from actual flight date to not reveal actual flight pattern)

VII> Other Pictures:
(YCL kit)


(More airlines should learn on cool merchandizing in duty-free … including first souvenir of a country I have seen for onboard sale)



Live, and let live.
78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1871 posts, RR: 41
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 32767 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Hi Abrelosojos! Great report as usual. I liked it especially seeing that I will fly PK's AMS-IST service next Tuesday. The 777 looks good! I hope I will have similar good experiences in Y on the A310.

Thanks for sharing,

Martijn



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineWhereToNext From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 32767 times:

Alex,

I've been following your trip reports on a.net for quite some time now, but this is the first time I've had an opportunity to say thank you. (I took the plunge and rerouted $25 from the college fund meant for beer and applied it to an a.net membership   )

So... Thank you!

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
J load of 90%; Y load was 95%. However, I would venture that over 50% of the J load were non-revenue passengers as I personally spoke with 3 of them, and sat next to the wife of a former PK 747 pilot.

I'm curious to know, how many passengers do you think were strictly taking the ORD-BCN sector? PIA is not generally the first... or second... or seventh airline, for that matter, I would think of if I needed to take this routing.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Barcelona is one of my favorite cities in the world, and any excuse was good enough to visit friends.

Barcelona is a beautiful city. I had an opportunity to visit back when I was studying in Spain and it was a nice change of pace from Madrid. I spent hours just walking the streets. Unfortunately, my time there went way too fast!

Thanks for the report! I look for to reading more in the future!

-Matt S



Next Adventure: TBD
User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4269 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Hi Alex,

great report. Really good overview again on this complete trip to BCN, including the ground handling. I must say, not impressed by the presence of crew in a business lounge. It's not their place to go!
Onboard many sublo's; is this common in the islamic world? I noticed this before, also on SV (said that, I was fortunate enough to get upgraded by the friendly staff). It's a very friendly attitude towards friends, staff and some crew, but maybe it's sometimes a bit too much, when it gets easily recognized by the revenue passenger.

Quoting WhereToNext (Reply 2):
but this is the first time I've had an opportunity to say thank you. (I took the plunge and rerouted $25 from the college fund meant for beer and applied it to an a.net membership

I think a.net has to forward part of this money to Alex now   Since he's attracting business for a.net LOL

Great pics as usual. And I agree with your opinion about the alcohols. It's a global industry, and a free world. PIA can rank themselves higher when some wine/beer would at least be available on board on these sectors.

Regards
Eric



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8542 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi Alex,

Another excellent TR, thanks for sharing the PK experience with us - going to share the AV one?


Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
At check-in, I was requested to present 3 forms of ID and my original credit card. A tad too much I thought?

- It does seem quite excessive.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
the check-in agent had not seen a Liechtenstein passport and had to look at TIM to see if I needed a visa for Europe … LOL

- Ha, amusing for us, but I guess that is a rare passport  
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
What was interesting was that half the lounge was PIA crew and staff. Now, in all my travels, I have never seen crew members use the lounge facility that passengers use. What do y’all think?

- Nope, never seen this before, quite odd!

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Finally, PIA is a dry-airline. While it did not bother me on this flight, and I recognize religious sensibilities, I hoped alcohol would have been offered to those who were not practicing Islam. After all, this is a global industry … and the flight connected 2 non-Islamic countries. Not a super deal breaker however

- Not a deal breaker but you have a point & I do like a glass or 2 of red with my dinner, helps me sleep.

Meal presentation is not great, the plastic cutlery is poor and breakfast looked awful, good job the evening meal tasted good, otherwise it would have been a disaster.

Regards

Mark



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlinelychemsa From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1201 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

How much was the J ticket?

You mention the Egyptian films of the1960s. The films of the 1940s were the most modern; for example Laila Murad's musical comedies films.


User currently offlineakhmad From Netherlands, joined Sep 2005, 2472 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Hi Alex,

What a nice surprise to see your trip report of PK ORD-BCN in J. I was wondering how it would look like. Thank you for your insight review of it.

Good to know that PIA cabin crew's attentive service and inflight meal remain the highlights of their flights.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
The ones I could find were The777Man’s excellent coverage of a ORD-MAN flight (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/55073) and the always awesome UK_Dispatcher’s report on KHI-HKG (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/107547). This will be the first report on their ORD-BCN flight

There is another PIA fifth freedom route coverage as well. How about the AMS-IST leg? The second one will be coming up soon by Martijn.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Within minutes, I was able to buy my ticket, select my seat, and even modify it online. The only thing you cannot do is change your reservation … which is only a minor issue.

Wow, that is definitely a great improvement in comparison to my experience earlier this year.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
(And the bags … all of this belonged to 1 person)

Unbelieveable! Are they belong to the person on the right of the photo? I can not imagine what could possibly be hold inside those bags?

I do not know how much SATA or Icelandair J class may cost. But at USD 795, I would certainly prefer PIA.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,
Suryo

[Edited 2010-07-31 13:00:50]


Friends forever
User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 928 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Hi Alex, Still waiting for you to publish a book!  

As always an excellent report. I bet that was quite the experience. How low was the fare? That is always a delight for JCL service.

Cheers,
Liam



Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25370 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Thanks for another unique report.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Now, I had NEVER seen this in the U.S. and wonder if it is just reserved for PIA flights?

Not unusual. Such random departure checks do occur.
I've seen them catch people carrying large sums of undeclared money, those having overstayed their visa's, couriers of various illegal substances etc..

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
For around USD 795,00

Wow. You manage that directly from the airline, or from a consolidator?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineabrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5097 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 1):
Hi Abrelosojos! Great report as usual. I liked it especially seeing that I will fly PK's AMS-IST service next Tuesday. The 777 looks good! I hope I will have similar good experiences in Y on the A310.

Thanks for sharing,

Martijn

= Anytime Martijn. Will you be writing a TR?

Quoting WhereToNext (Reply 2):
I've been following your trip reports on a.net for quite some time now, but this is the first time I've had an opportunity to say thank you. (I took the plunge and rerouted $25 from the college fund meant for beer and applied it to an a.net membership )

= Wow. I am really flattered by this. Thanks a lot. So, are we going to see a report from you soon?

Quoting WhereToNext (Reply 2):
I'm curious to know, how many passengers do you think were strictly taking the ORD-BCN sector? PIA is not generally the first... or second... or seventh airline, for that matter, I would think of if I needed to take this routing.

= I would estimate only around 20 pax on this flight got out at BCN.

Quoting WhereToNext (Reply 2):

Barcelona is a beautiful city. I had an opportunity to visit back when I was studying in Spain and it was a nice change of pace from Madrid. I spent hours just walking the streets. Unfortunately, my time there went way too fast!

= You need to go back! Where were you studying in Madrid?

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 3):
Really good overview again on this complete trip to BCN, including the ground handling. I must say, not impressed by the presence of crew in a business lounge. It's not their place to go!

= It was just a weird feeling ... like I had to check myself and be nice because they would watch me later ... does that make sense?

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 3):
Onboard many sublo's

= What are sublo's?

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 3):
ip

I think a.net has to forward part of this money to Alex now Since he's attracting business for a.net LOL

= I like how you think Eric  .

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 3):

Great pics as usual. And I agree with your opinion about the alcohols. It's a global industry, and a free world. PIA can rank themselves higher when some wine/beer would at least be available on board on these sectors.

Regards
Eric

= Agreed.

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 4):
Another excellent TR, thanks for sharing the PK experience with us - going to share the AV one?

= AV was very routine ... run of the mill stuff, so no. I also have a serious "backlog". BTW, when do you head to Latam? I might be in Bogota for a whole month of work.

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 4):
- It does seem quite excessive.

= Yup.

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 4):

Meal presentation is not great, the plastic cutlery is poor and breakfast looked awful, good job the evening meal tasted good, otherwise it would have been a disaster.

= Agreed. The paper plates for breakfast was a tad too tacky for my taste.

Quoting lychemsa (Reply 5):
How much was the J ticket?

= USD 795,00.

Quoting lychemsa (Reply 5):
You mention the Egyptian films of the1960s. The films of the 1940s were the most modern; for example Laila Murad's musical comedies films.

= I LOVE Laila Murad ... but don't think they could get away with that in modern Egyptian cinema. What do you think?

Quoting akhmad (Reply 6):
What a nice surprise to see your trip report of PK ORD-BCN in J. I was wondering how it would look like. Thank you for your insight review of it.

= Sure Suryo.

Quoting akhmad (Reply 6):

There is another PIA fifth freedom route coverage as well. How about the AMS-IST leg? The second one will be coming up soon by Martijn.

= You know ... I know I was missing one report ... and of course I remember your awesome one! But, why doesn't it come up on the searches? Can you please post the link?

Quoting akhmad (Reply 6):
I do not know how much SATA or Icelandair J class may cost. But at USD 795, I would certainly prefer PIA.

= SATA was double that ... Icelandair is usually around USD 1,700 OW in JCL.

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 7):
Hi Alex, Still waiting for you to publish a book!

= LOL.

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 7):
How low was the fare? That is always a delight for JCL service.

= See above.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Not unusual. Such random departure checks do occur.
I've seen them catch people carrying large sums of undeclared money, those having overstayed their visa's, couriers of various illegal substances etc..

= Wow. Guess I have never witnessed it. Are there any particular airlines they watch?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Wow. You manage that directly from the airline, or from a consolidator?

= Nope. Directly from their site. I bet if you searched today, you'd find it.

Thanks for reading all,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8542 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 9):
Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 4):
Another excellent TR, thanks for sharing the PK experience with us - going to share the AV one?

= AV was very routine ... run of the mill stuff, so no. I also have a serious "backlog". BTW, when do you head to Latam? I might be in Bogota for a whole month of work.

- Not until late Feb next year.

The plan is LHR-MAD-MEX-BOG-GRU-LHR - with other stops inc change of planes, still some work to do yet.

Cheers

Mark



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineburj From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 901 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Wow! I've always loved your trip reports but this is my favorite as I haven't flown PIA since I was very young and I was curious how it is doing!

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Anyways, J class had a separate check-in … which was nice … as Pakistanis travel with more luggage than Colombians (sorry guys) … and Y class check-in was taking forever. It made me wonder how much PK makes on excess baggage fees.

I should look this up if this is still the case...BUT I know that in the past some family and friends have chosen PIA over the Gulf/ME airlines for flights between N.A. and Pakistan for the sole reason that PIA allowed MORE hold luggage and charged less for excess luggage. I think from PIA's perspective, allowing more luggage is one of the few ways it can differentiate itself from the competition.

As for WHY Pakistanis have so much luggage...it is simply cultural. My personal theory is that part of it a scar from the trauma of the partition and the creation of Pakistan where millions left their homes with only what they could carry knowing they would never be coming back....

The other reason, and I have seen this with family and friends, is that when you go back it is expected bring presents for pretty much every family member, and then you return with all the presents you received!

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
What was interesting was that half the lounge was PIA crew and staff. Now, in all my travels, I have never seen crew members use the lounge facility that passengers use. What do y’all think?

This is really disappointing to hear, but not surprising. I'm actually more surprised that Air France allows uniformed crew into their lounge, I can only assume PIA pays for this to happen. As you noted by all the non-revs in J, the airline does have this "welfare" mentality. Too many people within PIA see its purpose as a way to provide jobs and perks to their employees than as a business providing a product and service to earn money.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Finally, PIA is a dry-airline. While it did not bother me on this flight, and I recognize religious sensibilities, I hoped alcohol would have been offered to those who were not practicing Islam.

PIA will never serve alcohol and I'm quite surprised, shocked even, that they even sell it as part of duty free!

Without going too much into a religious lesson, alcohol isn't like pork/ham. Muslims do not eat pork/ham etc...but it is not seen as "evil" where as alcohol is actually seen as "evil" and practicing Muslims are not only suppose to not DRINK it, but also not make it, sell it, or even help distribute it.


Anyways thanks again for the excellent trip report! Out of curiosity did they give you a present for flying in J? When I was young and we flew PIA first class we always got a little present, usually some kind of hand crafted item representing Pakistani culture.

More recently they used to give watches with PIA logo. Perhaps this practice is a victim of PIA's poor financial situation, which could also explain the craptacular ear phones!


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25370 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 9):
= Wow. Guess I have never witnessed it. Are there any particular airlines they watch?

I suppose they might have some favorite carriers or destination flights to target. Here in LA it seems to be some of the South Asian or Latin flights over European destined ones.

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 9):
= Nope. Directly from their site. I bet if you searched today, you'd find it.

With PIA having zero airline partnerships, and the basket case financial mess I guess they cant be picky and will take any and all revenue they can. Actually kinda a shame they have to devalue the product so much.

My only experience with PIA was back in the late 1980s after a snow storm and was reaccommodated on PK IST-FRA flight after my Pan Am flight was cancelled. Was fun to ride a 747 on such a short hop, however it looks like the product has improved greatly with the arrival of the 777s.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLH4116 From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 1714 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Hello Alex, a very nice, interesting and rather entertaining report from you. Good job!

First of all, that J class fare you got was just "WOW". I mean, I didn't even know it was possible to fly premium that cheap, usually you'll find an Y class ticket across the pond for that price. Now one could only wonder what an Y class ticket on your flight would have cost...  

PIA's J class product looked pretty nice. I was a bit surprised to see that the seats were of the exact same model as SQ's old Spacebeds, however that legrest did not look good. Was it supposed to be like that, or was the seat broken?

The food looked great! Really nice that some airlines still tend do serve their passengers directly from the cart, just like the old days.

About those headphones, it's just a shame that they even hand them out, a complete waste of resources. Btw, have you gotten those Bose QuietComfort 15 Acoustic Noise Cancelling Headphones yet?
I'm thinking of getting those, since my QC3's having recently broken down  

Thanks for sharing!
//Jonas



SAS Plus is Business Class made faux!
User currently offlineAI151 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2009, 303 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Hi Alex, another well written TR. I am very surprised with the price as I thought my £750 KU ticket was very cheap.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
She was shocked to hear that I had no check-in luggage …

This is always the case, especially on long haul flights with PK and AI.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
He mentioned that the front line girl had to check with the supervisor on whether Indians were allowed on-board.

Maybe a tad more training is required for them not to judge these things so quickly. There are lots Indians that travel on PK and visa-versa as well.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Now, I had NEVER seen this in the U.S. and wonder if it is just reserved for PIA flights?

It happened when I was leaving JFK on my KU flight. Again it was random checks.

Look forward to the next TR from wherever in the world you are.

Sandeep (AI151)



Modern Vision. Timeless Traditions...
User currently offline777ord From United States of America, joined May 2010, 501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

great TR! As a former employee of SWISSPORT @ ORD terminal 5, I used to work "PK" almost every day, and with over 800 bags a flight coming and going (max was 1,100, no cargo), it's nice to see a different aspect of this flight's operation. J class looks pretty NICE!!!

User currently offlineWhereToNext From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 3):
I think a.net has to forward part of this money to Alex now   Since he's attracting business for a.net LOL
Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 9):
= Wow. I am really flattered by this. Thanks a lot.

LOL. I frequented the site for years but finally joined so I could participate in the forums (especially since my formal education about the aviation industry is weak). Plus, I've read hundreds of trip reports and with each that I read, the guilt mounted. It was about time I started paying my dues and thanking people for their TR's.

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 9):
So, are we going to see a report from you soon?

I don't have any upcoming trips, but the first chance I get, I'm sure I will write a report!

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 9):
= You need to go back! Where were you studying in Madrid?

I was studying at Universidad Antonio de Nebrija. My entire time in Spain was amazing, and I aspire to go back and study there again before I graduate.

-Matt



Next Adventure: TBD
User currently offlineakhmad From Netherlands, joined Sep 2005, 2472 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 9):
Can you please post the link?

Sure. Merhaba Istanbul Return Trip With PIA (by akhmad Apr 3 2010 in Trip Reports)



Friends forever
User currently offlineflightsimboy From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1268 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
She was shocked to hear that I had no check-in luggage …

That must have been something to see lol. Yes, Pakistanis travel "heavy" and to not even have a single piece to check in, unbelievable!

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
just post boarding pass scan, there were 2 tough looking Immigration staff members who were “randomly” screening passengers and asking for their passports. Now, I had NEVER seen this in the U.S. and wonder if it is just reserved for PIA flights?

This was carried out in Los Angeles, before I boarded a Air New Zealand flight to Sydney in 2001. And this was just a month before Sept 11 that year.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
However, I would venture that over 50% of the J load were non-revenue passengers as I personally spoke with 3 of them, and sat next to the wife of a former PK 747 pilot.

That must be a really nice perk....but then in it's all about who you know and your status with them, and what they can do for you

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
(And the bags … all of this belonged to 1 person)

Are you sure? Or were they bags that belonged to 1 family. And it definitely belongs to the guy behind the bags, not the one to the right of them lol

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
economy class amenity kit

In J class...not nice! (And regarding the headphones, I wonder if they actually offer those because the better ones probably get conveniently get lost inflight and land up in the bags of the carry-on of the passengers. Not indicating it does happen)

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
though, the ambience was slightly taken away as the meals were still in tin foil from restaurants …

It's funny, but sometimes even at some local events, the dishes are served directly from the tin foils that they came in. I think for one it it saves on washing up, and secondly it keeps the food nice and warm had it to be transferred into say another dish for serving purposes, which would rapidly cool it down instead

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Dessert was a cake or a Pakistani dish … I chose the latter and was pleasantly surprised. The Pakistani woman sitting next to me thought it was horrible and had a word with the cabin crew. Again, I thought it was fine … but am sure that she is a better judge than I am!

That was definitely Kheer and looks quite unpleasant. No wonder the ex PIA 747 Captain's wife had a word with the cabin crew about it!

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
The meal was served on paper plates (and again, with plastic cutlery). Not too classy for JCL! I was full from the dinner, so did not venture much into the breakfast options.

Breakfast served on paper plates...Well I guess they are not to be blamed as cutlery was not loaded at ORD. But it makes one feel like they were served that as some local fast food joint! Now that is something that the woman at the side of you should have seriously addressed the cabin crew about. Or perhaps you should have yourself.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
The dinner was especially restaurant quality and amongst the best meals I have had on a plane. Pakistan Airlines should be significantly praised for this … and be gently reminded that a truly memorable experience also factors in presentation.

Nothing like real Pakistani food! I wonder how the food was in Y class, though Akhmad here has indicated he enjoyed the biryani on his AMS-IST flight in Y class, with two helpings of Biryani lol

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
I was convinced Indian movies were banned from being shown in Pakistani theatres? Anyways, for old-time sake, I made the “mistake” of watching a Pakistani movie called “Mera Naam Hai Mohabat” which did not have any subtitles, but one could guess the plot by just staring at the screen. What was uniquely interesting was how much Pakistani society had become conservative since the 1960’s. It sort of reminded me of Egypt in the 1960’s vs. Egypt today. Maybe, the Pakistanis on the board can correct my perception?

You need to visit a local DVD Mall in Karachi and see the full length posters of Indian actors and actresses, and the amount of Indian movies available for sale. They may be banned in cinemas but it's unlimited sales of these in these stores.

"Mera Naam Hai Mohabat" means "My name is love" and it's supposed to be one of the most Classic movies. And yes the 60's were the days when alcohol was featured in movies, people drinking at bars and random scenes of drunkedness with staggering back and forth lol. I believe there were scenes where women too got drunk! Such a far cry from what would be considered taboo today

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Overall, most of the crew was warm and genuinely cared about the passengers onboard. During boarding, they were nice and attentive and walked me to my seat. They also genuinely checked with me throughout the flight to make sure I was enjoying the same. Some highlights:

+ During the meal service, I had requested my tea with saccharine/sugar-free and some milk. On subsequent requests, this one crew member remembered the same each time.
+ After each meal offering, they would check and see if I needed something else, or if I was sufficiently happy.
+ At duty free sales, the purser took time to explain the evolution of the colorful buses present in Karachi.

It's just so amazing to read about the excellent PIA crews, especially in this day and age when the so called top notch airlines like Emirates, are being constantly driven down for having crews that don't care about their J class passengers, and even don't walk them to their seats. Were you addressed by your first or last name, or just "Sir" on board with the PK crews?

Very interesting about the colourful buses in Karachi, and the fact they have a little souvenir of it on board for sale. But the real deal is with the larger vehicles that run across the highways between different cities, that have the most glorious art work on them.

Quoting burj (Reply 11):
As for WHY Pakistanis have so much luggage...it is simply cultural. My personal theory is that part of it a scar from the trauma of the partition and the creation of Pakistan where millions left their homes with only what they could carry knowing they would never be coming back....

The other reason, and I have seen this with family and friends, is that when you go back it is expected bring presents for pretty much every family member, and then you return with all the presents you received!

I'm not sure where you are getting your first point from, and it's absolutely ridiculous!! The second point though is bang on, and in Pakistani culture "family" is everything. You do go back with presents for family and friends! And sometimes you have to return with what is given, and sometimes warn them before hand what is "socially acceptable" for you take back home, or what may be considered appropriate to display in your home here, considering western styles are a lot different that what is in Pakistan.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

First of all abrelosojos, a super-duper "thank you" for yet another excellent trip report!   

My mother and wife flew on the very route on June 9 and she made some videos/photos on her cell phone so I'll see what I can come up with.

Interestingly enough, since my mother was traveling with my wife, they both flew Y rather than her usual J she flies-in fact, this was the first time in about 20-25 years she's flown Y internationally.....regardless, she was quite happy with PK's service...

Quoting http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/173062/ (Thread starter):

All in all, I maintain that meal options on South Asian carriers are generally the best in the world, and PIA did not disappoint. While there is much to be said about the actual presentation, the quality and quantity of food was incredible

PK's food is always yummy...I flew KHI-ISB-KHI last year (first time flying on that route) and flew PK's B77E/B77W....their food was so yummy I actually asked for seconds..  ...

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
As a side note for those interested, PK’s JCL fare was probably the cheapest J-ticket I have bought in my life for a trans-Atlantic flight. Even more remarkable given the lie-flat seat that you get. More on that later.

As you know abrelosojos, I've been stating literally for years that PK has one of the best J-price/service ratio and has some of the best J-class prices in the entire industry. My dad would fly ORD-MAN quite often in PK's J....

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
. I was convinced Indian movies were banned from being shown in Pakistani theatres?

Actually, a lot of Indian movies are now available in Pakistani movie theaters (they have to be approved by the Pakistani Censors Board however).

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Anyways, the IFE also included a decent selection of music and television programming as well. However, nothing could hide the abysmal headsets given out. There really is no excuse for this in YCL! Supplementing the AVOD options were the always amusing in-flight magazine “Humsafar”, and several Pakistani magazines which all had depressing headlines.

I do agree that headsets should have been better in J. The problem is however with Pakistanis in general. They either somehow manage to steal them or ruin them. Pakistani kids are the worst. They have no problems about destroying property (IFE, etc.) and the parents just don't care one iota that their kid is ruining or breaking something. Its quite appalling. I think that is part of the reason why they no longer offer higher-quality headsets. That being said, they should be available with some kind of credit-card reserve-i.e. no charge to the credit card unless the headset is broken or stolen. Unfortunately however, I don't think PK's technology is there yet. Bloody 'ell, they just started online ticketing only a few years ago.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
. though, the weird layout of the airport meant going through arrivals security check, immigration, and then a long walk to the exits.

My wife and mother commented on that as well.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
In terms of value for money, PIA is probably the best across the Atlantic right now. True, this is a limited offering on ORD-BCN, but nevertheless. For around USD 795,00, I was getting a lie-flat seat that was significantly better than other “random” options such as Icelandair and SATA.

As I mentioned, PK has been this way for many years now. Its not a new thing with PK.

Quoting WhereToNext (Reply 2):
I'm curious to know, how many passengers do you think were strictly taking the ORD-BCN sector?

Lately, it has been 40-60 pax and up to 65-66 recently. The few times I've been to ORD, it seems there were a number of families who were going to be flying the 5th freedom flight...(see the two circles in red-I took this photo @ ORD on June 9th.



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
For around USD 795,00

Wow. You manage that directly from the airline, or from a consolidator?

These prices are typical PK prices directly from local travel agents..as I mentioned above, PK has been very competitive for years with great prices-even on routes where it really doesn't compete too much on.

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 9):
Quoting WhereToNext (Reply 2):
I'm curious to know, how many passengers do you think were strictly taking the ORD-BCN sector? PIA is not generally the first... or second... or seventh airline, for that matter, I would think of if I needed to take this routing.

= I would estimate only around 20 pax on this flight got out at BCN.

As I've been mentioning, its been around 40 with up to 60 and recently have seen 65 pax. Not bad for a route which just started not even 2 months ago...IMHO.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
and the basket case financial mess

That I unfortunately agree....typical of corrupt governments...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
With PIA having zero airline partnerships,

As I mentioned above, PK is working AA and IB on pricing agreements and possibly codeshare agreements. PK finally got interlining with AA just last year (September 2009) after years of not having the most basic of agreements with AA....

Again abrelosojos, another awesome trip report!   



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineabrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5097 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 10):
- Not until late Feb next year.

The plan is LHR-MAD-MEX-BOG-GRU-LHR - with other stops inc change of planes, still some work to do yet.

Cheers

Mark

= Mark, I have plans to be in Colombia quite often ... we MUST coordinate to meet-up. While our Colombian colleagues probably know Bogota better, I know some of the best eateries outside P 93.

Quoting burj (Reply 11):

I should look this up if this is still the case...BUT I know that in the past some family and friends have chosen PIA over the Gulf/ME airlines for flights between N.A. and Pakistan for the sole reason that PIA allowed MORE hold luggage and charged less for excess luggage. I think from PIA's perspective, allowing more luggage is one of the few ways it can differentiate itself from the competition.

= Several airlines with a large ethnic base offer this - LAN for example regularly promotes itself to have 3rd bag free for its Miami - Ecuador flights.

Quoting burj (Reply 11):

As for WHY Pakistanis have so much luggage...it is simply cultural. My personal theory is that part of it a scar from the trauma of the partition and the creation of Pakistan where millions left their homes with only what they could carry knowing they would never be coming back....

= Hmmm ... I guess to a non-Pakistani this sounds a little far fetched ... but then again, sometimes you just don't get cultural nuances until you're actually from there.

Quoting burj (Reply 11):

The other reason, and I have seen this with family and friends, is that when you go back it is expected bring presents for pretty much every family member, and then you return with all the presents you received!

= See, this is a far more reasonable explanation.

Quoting burj (Reply 11):

This is really disappointing to hear, but not surprising. I'm actually more surprised that Air France allows uniformed crew into their lounge, I can only assume PIA pays for this to happen. As you noted by all the non-revs in J, the airline does have this "welfare" mentality. Too many people within PIA see its purpose as a way to provide jobs and perks to their employees than as a business providing a product and service to earn money.

= Ya. But, they have an organizational reshuffle from what I am being told. Do you know whatever happened to PIA's divestiture?

Quoting burj (Reply 11):
PIA will never serve alcohol and I'm quite surprised, shocked even, that they even sell it as part of duty free!

= They do NOT sell it in duty-free ... where did you read they do?

Quoting burj (Reply 11):

Anyways thanks again for the excellent trip report! Out of curiosity did they give you a present for flying in J? When I was young and we flew PIA first class we always got a little present, usually some kind of hand crafted item representing Pakistani culture.

= No present. I love presents   ... do you have any of them? I would love to see photos. I did like the opportunity to buy that bus though.

Quoting burj (Reply 11):
More recently they used to give watches with PIA logo. Perhaps this practice is a victim of PIA's poor financial situation, which could also explain the craptacular ear phones!

= Nice. I could have added to my collection of airline watches!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):

I suppose they might have some favorite carriers or destination flights to target. Here in LA it seems to be some of the South Asian or Latin flights over European destined ones.

= Interesting. I have flown out of the U.S. several times and have never really faced this.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
My only experience with PIA was back in the late 1980s after a snow storm and was reaccommodated on PK IST-FRA flight after my Pan Am flight was cancelled. Was fun to ride a 747 on such a short hop, however it looks like the product has improved greatly with the arrival of the 777s.

= IST seems to be where every A.Netter's PIA experience happens  .

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 13):
First of all, that J class fare you got was just "WOW". I mean, I didn't even know it was possible to fly premium that cheap, usually you'll find an Y class ticket across the pond for that price. Now one could only wonder what an Y class ticket on your flight would have cost...

= YCL was only USD 200 cheaper. To me, it was a no-brainer.

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 13):

PIA's J class product looked pretty nice. I was a bit surprised to see that the seats were of the exact same model as SQ's old Spacebeds, however that legrest did not look good. Was it supposed to be like that, or was the seat broken?

= Are you sure it was the same Spacebed? I have been on that product many times and think these 2 were different. The Spacebed goes down at a far bigger angle from what I remember. I don't think the legrest was broken.

Quoting LH4116 (Reply 13):

About those headphones, it's just a shame that they even hand them out, a complete waste of resources. Btw, have you gotten those Bose QuietComfort 15 Acoustic Noise Cancelling Headphones yet?
I'm thinking of getting those, since my QC3's having recently broken down

= Man, I am the most forgetful person anyways ... if I get the headphones, I will forget them ... btw, this might be a tad silly ... but these headphones usually come with different aircraft prongs right?

Quoting AI151 (Reply 14):
Hi Alex, another well written TR. I am very surprised with the price as I thought my £750 KU ticket was very cheap.

= Your KU flight WAS cheap  . BTW, was that round trip?

Quoting AI151 (Reply 14):

Maybe a tad more training is required for them not to judge these things so quickly. There are lots Indians that travel on PK and visa-versa as well.

= I don't know if this is still true ... back in the day, PK did very good business on transit Indians especially on NBO-KHI-DEL/BOM.

Quoting 777ord (Reply 15):
great TR! As a former employee of SWISSPORT @ ORD terminal 5, I used to work "PK" almost every day, and with over 800 bags a flight coming and going (max was 1,100, no cargo), it's nice to see a different aspect of this flight's operation. J class looks pretty NICE!!!

= 800 bags! Any other insight on their ops?

Quoting WhereToNext (Reply 16):

LOL. I frequented the site for years but finally joined so I could participate in the forums (especially since my formal education about the aviation industry is weak). Plus, I've read hundreds of trip reports and with each that I read, the guilt mounted. It was about time I started paying my dues and thanking people for their TR's.

= Cool.

Quoting WhereToNext (Reply 16):
I don't have any upcoming trips, but the first chance I get, I'm sure I will write a report!

= Good ... I will be watching  .

Quoting akhmad (Reply 17):
Sure. Merhaba Istanbul Return Trip With PIA (by akhmad Apr 3 2010 in Trip Reports)

= Thanks man. I have no idea why a search for PIA did not show this up.

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 18):

Are you sure? Or were they bags that belonged to 1 family. And it definitely belongs to the guy behind the bags, not the one to the right of them lol

= Yes, 1 guy ... because he was yelling at the agent and I thought it was amusing that he even tried to get away with it.

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 18):
In J class...not nice! (And regarding the headphones, I wonder if they actually offer those because the better ones probably get conveniently get lost inflight and land up in the bags of the carry-on of the passengers. Not indicating it does happen)

= Perhaps ... but they MUST create a system ... on a flight with Qatar (AFAIR), the pilot announced that a headphone had been missing and we could not disembark until it was found ... really did not work as I was like ... um, I am gonna miss my connection ... check my bag, but I'm getting off.

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 18):
It's funny, but sometimes even at some local events, the dishes are served directly from the tin foils that they came in. I think for one it it saves on washing up, and secondly it keeps the food nice and warm had it to be transferred into say another dish for serving purposes, which would rapidly cool it down instead

= You know, I think you make an excellent point. I did not think of it this way.

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 18):

That was definitely Kheer and looks quite unpleasant. No wonder the ex PIA 747 Captain's wife had a word with the cabin crew about it!

= What was wrong with the Kheer? Can you tell I've got no experience in this?

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 18):
Breakfast served on paper plates...Well I guess they are not to be blamed as cutlery was not loaded at ORD. But it makes one feel like they were served that as some local fast food joint! Now that is something that the woman at the side of you should have seriously addressed the cabin crew about. Or perhaps you should have yourself.

= I would have ... but the woman serving me was just so nice ... anyways, it did not inconvenience me, and the food was quite good. Have you had this missing cutlery experience with them?

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 18):

Nothing like real Pakistani food! I wonder how the food was in Y class, though Akhmad here has indicated he enjoyed the biryani on his AMS-IST flight in Y class, with two helpings of Biryani lol

= I should have checked ... but very hard to get up during a full trolley service.

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 18):
You need to visit a local DVD Mall in Karachi and see the full length posters of Indian actors and actresses, and the amount of Indian movies available for sale. They may be banned in cinemas but it's unlimited sales of these in these stores.

= I know .. there have always been this ... but I have never seen an Indian movie screened at a Isloo theater while I lived there.

It is funny you mention posters. When my post finished and I left Pakistan, I had developed quite an appreciation for the hand made Pakistani movie posters, and got a collection. Shipping them was quite a pain and caused an "issue". What was/is sadly interesting is that there is ZERO preservation efforts for such rich cultural icons in Pakistan. The elites I mingled with thought far more value in Western art, than Pakistani counterpart. More weirdly, 2 years back, I went to an exhibition of Pakistani movie posters ... in Bombay. Go figure.

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 18):

"Mera Naam Hai Mohabat" means "My name is love" and it's supposed to be one of the most Classic movies. And yes the 60's were the days when alcohol was featured in movies, people drinking at bars and random scenes of drunkedness with staggering back and forth lol. I believe there were scenes where women too got drunk! Such a far cry from what would be considered taboo today

= Thanks for this insight. The movie was quite something, and I made the same observation about drinking ... amazing how movies reflect a countries change over the years. Egypt is the same thing. One question ... I observed in this that women wore sarees. I have seen other old Pakistani movies where this was the case. However, today, I rarely see this. Am I right on this observation? And, if so, why?

So, did the "new find" go and make it big?

BTW, when I was in Pakistani, I was obsessed with a TV show from the 1980s being re-run ... I don't remember the name, but it involved a girl/sisters and she had a teddy bear ... sounds vague I know ... but I had my poor driver explain the show every time ... no subtitles then.

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 18):
It's just so amazing to read about the excellent PIA crews, especially in this day and age when the so called top notch airlines like Emirates, are being constantly driven down for having crews that don't care about their J class passengers, and even don't walk them to their seats. Were you addressed by your first or last name, or just "Sir" on board with the PK crews?

= Mostly "Sir" or "Janab" ... since I knew what that meant  .

Quoting flightsimboy (Reply 18):
Very interesting about the colourful buses in Karachi, and the fact they have a little souvenir of it on board for sale. But the real deal is with the larger vehicles that run across the highways between different cities, that have the most glorious art work on them.

= Hmmm ... any idea where I can see these? And yes, I thought selling the buses were a great idea.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
First of all abrelosojos, a super-duper "thank you" for yet another excellent trip report!

= Anytime.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
My mother and wife flew on the very route on June 9 and she made some videos/photos on her cell phone so I'll see what I can come up with.

= YAY  ! Would love to see their YCL product.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):

PK's food is always yummy...I flew KHI-ISB-KHI last year (first time flying on that route) and flew PK's B77E/B77W....their food was so yummy I actually asked for seconds.. ...

= ISB-DXB was a regular route for me, and I significantly preferred PK for their food and other things vs. EK.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):

As you know abrelosojos, I've been stating literally for years that PK has one of the best J-price/service ratio and has some of the best J-class prices in the entire industry. My dad would fly ORD-MAN quite often in PK's J....

= Yes. And, you are partially the reason I even attempted to check them out  .

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):

Actually, a lot of Indian movies are now available in Pakistani movie theaters (they have to be approved by the Pakistani Censors Board however).

= I did not know this.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):
I do agree that headsets should have been better in J. The problem is however with Pakistanis in general. They either somehow manage to steal them or ruin them. Pakistani kids are the worst. They have no problems about destroying property (IFE, etc.) and the parents just don't care one iota that their kid is ruining or breaking something. Its quite appalling. I think that is part of the reason why they no longer offer higher-quality headsets. That being said, they should be available with some kind of credit-card reserve-i.e. no charge to the credit card unless the headset is broken or stolen. Unfortunately however, I don't think PK's technology is there yet. Bloody 'ell, they just started online ticketing only a few years ago.

= Isn't this sad? Does this happen also in JCL? I can see it in Y, but J? I like the idea of the credit-card reserve ... but that would also take away from the "premium" experience for some. I would have no problem doing it.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 19):

Lately, it has been 40-60 pax and up to 65-66 recently. The few times I've been to ORD, it seems there were a number of families who were going to be flying the 5th freedom flight...(see the two circles in red-I took this photo @ ORD on June 9th.

= Haha ... I can't believe you took a picture of it. BTW, do you live in Chicago?

Thanks again all for reading.

Saludos,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlinestylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2975 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

its unbelievable how cheap that is! people buy economy tickets on crapy US airlines for that price...

excellent TR as usual and please keep us entertaint with more!!!


User currently offlineburj From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 901 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 20):
= They do NOT sell it in duty-free ... where did you read they do?

O.K. I went back and re-read the following.....

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Of course, the crew wasn’t perfect. First off, there was this one rather “fundamentalist” crew member who was apparently not too happy with the alcohol purchased at the duty free by a passenger in seat 1C and they got into an argument. It was not his business

On my first read through I somehow interpreted this as meaning the passenger in 1C had bought alcohol from the ON BOARD duty free......but now that I re-read this I am assuming you mean 1C bought it at the AIRPORT's duty free shop...

If that is the case...how did the crew member even know what was purchased at the airport?

So sorry if I misread the original trip report.....


User currently onlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6568 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Excellent trip report, Alex! I had a similiar experience with the great food andnce srvice in Y. When I flew in 2005, I could book the reservation on heir website but had to go to a PK ticket office to have the paperticket issued. I paid just over USD 200.00 one way ORD-MAN; J was close to USD 700 or more at that time for ORD-MAN.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
I have never seen crew members use the lounge facility that passengers use. What do y’all think?

That's very bad I tink. I would feel a bit strange as well, like you said.

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Now, I had NEVER seen this in the U.S. and wonder if it is just reserved for PIA flights? One of the men started yelling at why he was single handedly called out … yelling was probably not a good idea as I did not see the man later on board.

Happened on my PK fflight from ORD as well. It's the only time I have ever experienced that departing the USA.

I guess the paper plates can be blamed on caterig so that may be better the next time. Still, an amazing value for what you pay. I usually use my own headphones when fly and most of the time they work on all airlnes. If it'sa double prong, just pull the the headset part out halfway and it usually works.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2774 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Hi Alex

Interesting TR, I have been wondering how the service onboard PK was like on the BCN-ORD sector, as someone pointed out PK will not be my 1st 3rd or millionth choice to fly out to the US, but at those prices... things can change 

Which terminal do they operate out of BCN? T1 or T2?

Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter):
Barcelona is one of my favorite cities in the world

Indeed! next time you are here in BCN give me a heads up and we can meet up for a beer (or 6)

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
25 Post contains links and images flightsimboy : Sarees were probably the carry over from pre-partition days. It's an Indian dress! The Shalwar Kameez with the head covering is the national dress, i
26 Post contains images 9W748Capt : Seriously, Mr. Abrelosojos, a.net ought to pay you a premium of some sort, if not for directly/indirectly increasing their membership rolls, but for t
27 Post contains images WhereToNext : Agreed. Very impressive, though based on the J fare quoted by abrelosojos, I'd like to know if this is economically sustainable. -Matt
28 The777Man : (SUBject to LOad) Sublo = NRSA The777Man
29 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I'm glad I finally made a different on A.net.. ....thanks Alex! Unfortunately, as mentioned regarding employees, even pax have a sense of entitlement
30 Contact Air : Hi Alex, Fantastic report and pictures - I had no idea that PIA served ORD-BCN. Looks like you get really, really good value for money in Business Cla
31 reifel : Hi Alex, excellent report, once again. And a nice airline to use for transatlantic. I didn't knew they fly this route, and they don't seem to sell tic
32 Jacobin777 : Just asked the Mrs....she stated that there were two entree options-chicken or beef.
33 concordechild : Hi Alex this does seem like great value....as an example, i have done transatlantic on BA club many times and yes the seat is better as its fully flat
34 ORDnHKG : Thanks for your report ! I think that is why people said "you got what you paid for". Looks at the blankets, headsets and amenity kit, I couldn't even
35 AI151 : It was round trip. Very cheap and very good service. The other one I flew was when Air India flew the same route in 2006. That ticket cost me £990 s
36 b707forever : Last week when I was travelling back MAN-JFK I stopped by PK desk to ask if they had seats available for their MAN-JFK flight. I was informed a total
37 Post contains links and images 777ord : some insight into their OPS: OK, well this info is about 2 years old when I last worked the PK flights to/from MAN. In the bag room, we will normally
38 Post contains images abrelosojos : = Thanks man. BTW, just had an interesting TK experience at IST ... flew the ex-Air Jam 340 ... and connections at IST were horrid! = Yes ... airport
39 The777Man : Yes; I actually went back to my trip report and cost was USD 201.10 incl all taxes. Just don't push the prong in all the way,about halfway is good. Y
40 kiramakora : Alex - simply a remarkable report. You are definitely the best writer on A.Net. BTW, I flew PIA as a kid from Cairo to Bombay via Karachi. It was a B7
41 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I'm back home in west coast (Bay Area) but will be flying out again in a few days. Asked my wife about this (she was an Assistant V.P. of a bank befo
42 AI151 : Funnily enough Alex I don't. These 2 prices I got just by the off chance of going on the Air India website and a company called Trailfinders for the
43 tk747 : Exceptional report once again! Plastic cutlery and paper plates do not belong in Business class, it ruins the overall impression of the meal. The seat
44 luckyone : Can I just say that I want your job?? It sounds amazing.
45 abrelosojos : = Wow. That is indeed a great fare. One last question - was it significant advance purchase? = Thanks! I miss the 720 - though, I only flew it on KQ
46 The777Man : Difficult to remember but I think it was a week. It may no have had any advance purchase. Not sure. The777Man
47 lukeyboy95 : HI Alex. That was one hell of a 5th freedom... and a route I never had a clue about. Very interesting. And for the price, it seems like a good product
48 AI151 : LOL! It's one of those things that you have to book it instantly. The price calls out to you which is quite bad though. I just purchased a ticket to
49 abrelosojos : = No worries. = Luke, I completely agree with you here! = Do you know what BG's policy on this is? = Where did you buy the ticket? Saludos, A.
50 EC001 : Hello there, Another great TR! It is great to see PIA's service. Threads on this airline aren't that common! The catering looked good. I wish to try t
51 AI151 : From Southall Travel. The same agency where Luke got his Kingfisher ticket from. They always have cheap flights and specialise to India. Sandeep (AI1
52 abrelosojos : = Thanks Orion. You know, PIA used to sell these dirt cheap JFK-CDG tickets back in the day. = Sandeep, thanks. Isn't Southall Travel also known as A
53 PlaneHunter : Hi Alex, finally I found the time to read your excellent report about PIA. The product doesn't look bad - what else can you ask for considering that y
54 Post contains images flightsimboy : It was the -ER...the -LRs are used exclusively on the Pakistan to Toronto routes. Besides the -LRs are not yet painted in the new colours
55 kiramakora : Yes. Southall travels in England, and Hari World in the U.S.
56 Post contains images abrelosojos : = PH ... you're slipping here . = However, isn't the LR sometimes used on the Wednesday flights? Saludos, A.
57 Post contains images NZ107 : Hi Alex, Another great TR, thanks for sharing. Pictures were well detailed as usual. We're lucky that you do or we wouldn't be seeing a lot of these i
58 777way : Not to defend PIA as I cant stand them anymore, and rightly the breakfast sucked, but the wearer of the shoe should know better what hes talking abou
59 Post contains links and images abrelosojos : = 2 Passports and a drivers license . = Haha. Nicholas, it seems you have not been paying attention to my reports. I think the first reference was he
60 Post contains images Cysafan : Lol ! The seats looks like the spacebed that Singapore Airlines introduced. Is it comfortable to seat and/or sleep in? It seems that it 's a waste th
61 abrelosojos : I noticed one thing I forgot to mention in the report ... while I was at the lounge, eavesdropping on the conversation of the PK crew, I was hearing t
62 Post contains images 9W748Capt : Hahaha - so what do us mere mortals with only one passport do? Passport, drivers license...then...? Do they expect to carry our birth certificates or
63 777way : Was meant for the person who criticised the meals in one of the posts, despite you having given it positive remarks, except for the breakfast ofcours
64 Post contains images flightsimboy : Please read the FULL report before making these comments .
65 Cysafan : Duh!! I read the whole trip report!!
66 777way : Breakfast is normally served on China ware why they chose not to on this flight is not known.
67 flightsimboy : For the benefit of those who find it annoying about the breakfast service, here is the quote from the author himself. Not denying it was not unprofes
68 Post contains images NZ107 : Haha. Sorry, I only started reading them around 2007/08. You've got far too many reports to look through to find a definition of ILBST! Well now I kn
69 777way : Your seat leg rest seems broken as normally its completely flat and inline with the rest of the seat, in some other photos I saw long time ago.
70 abrelosojos : Hey all - first of all, something to share ... and, very surprising. I had filled up one of those PIA comment cards on the flight, and today I got an
71 Avianca : great report dude! very true, its always traumatic to travel with my mum or wife, both colombians... ... ... if I would live still in europe I would b
72 Post contains images abrelosojos : = Haha. Though, please explain to me how you get away by not calling yourself Colombian with a Colombian mom (and wife) . Also, where are you based n
73 Post contains images Avianca : well true, I am half colombian, but have only the good things from them... Well now based in the city of the blue skys "Lima" .... , any plans to come
74 IrishAyes : Great TR! I hate T5 at ORD. You would honestly think that an airport with such a huge presence of int'l carriers would have an awesome terminal to go
75 flightsimboy : Yes Kuwait Airways, Saudia as well.
76 abrelosojos : I believe Egypt Air is dry as well - can someone remind me if I am right? Also, Biman. Saludos, A.
77 777way : All airlines in Sudan, Pakistan, Saudi, Iran and Afghan as well as Royal Brunei are dry, dont know about the gulf LCCs and Wataniya or the revived Ira
78 Post contains images abrelosojos : = . = Will let you know. Actually, I still own an apartment on Malecón de la Reserva. Long story . Lima has grown on me over the years, and I increa
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