abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 55 Posted (12 months 15 hours ago) and read 20205 times:
Feedback always appreciated.
I > Background:
As readers of the previous installment will remember, a sudden opportunity had led me to spend around 2 weeks flying around Canada and visiting some of her remote parts. Journey recap so far:
+ Air North’s HS7 on YXY-YEV (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/211334/)
+ Canadian North’s 732 on YEV-YEG (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/211929/)
+ First Air’s fantastic 73M on YEG-YFB (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/212989/)
+ WestJet’s great 73H on YYZ-YYC (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/216888/)
(Route Recap)
So after having experienced the three main Northern airlines, and having flown the excellent WestJet (Canada’s only viable “other” national airline), it was time to wrap my visit by flying on the mainline Air Canada.
The initial plan was to fly Central Mountain Air who flies one of the remaining prop Dornier 328’s on YYC to YEG. Sadly, their sole aircraft was out of operation, and I settled for Air Canada to take me from YYC to YEG, and then to my LHR flight.
This report will cover AC’s YEG-LHR flight in their Executive First cabin, and will be the first report on A.Net on this routing.
II > Pre-Flight:
a) Before Airport:
Air Canada is the “flag” carrier of Canada. A Star Alliance member, this airline has struggled financially in the past few years with labor unrest and poor fiscal problems dominating the headlines as it fails to capitalize on a strong domestic economy, and growing demand. The next few years will be crucial to see if Air Canada can emerge as a strong airline having a visionary management, or if it continues to lose its market share to the well respected (and liked) WestJet.
Booking was done on Air Canada’s excellent website (www.aircanada.com). One gets the ability to make seat selections, view itineraries, change flights/seats, and log on and print e-tickets. It is an extremely well designed website and I must give AC tremendous praise for it. It is not perfect though … for example, try booking a multi-city trip, and it gives absurd pricing forcing you go to an OTA. And of course, once you go to an OTA, you cannot get all the functionality of the website. But these are minor details that I am sure AC’s revenue managers have thought about … or, so I hope.
b) At Airport:
Why Edmonton built a new expanded airport is beyond me … the current facilities seemed more than sufficient in my opinion. Anyways, after arriving from Calgary, I proceeded to the Air Canada check-in desk where an agent promptly attended to me. She was diligent and efficient and in a matter of minutes gave me my boarding pass and advised me of the location of their lounge. It was exactly what Business Class check-in should be … polite and efficient.
Security was a breeze, and soon I was airside exploring the rather limited retail options at Edmonton airport. I decided to check out the unimaginatively named “Maple Leaf Lounge” (come on Canadians, the Maple tree is grown in like a small part of Ontario!) which left a lot to be desired. It was basically one large room which was filled with people and offering a very limited collection of snacks and beverages. Perhaps, London being the only intercontinental flight of note at YEG, AC does not find its while in spending in upgraded facilities? Though, aren’t Canadian domestic departing passengers allowed into this lounge? I hope our Canadian A.Netters can shed some light.
Boarding was called 45 minutes prior to departure, and I made my way down to the gate area. A huge line was already being formed (what’s up with “ILBST” being more in fashion in Western countries than the original inventors?), and there was a sense that everyone wanted to be on the 763. Thankfully, a rather dour agent kept yelling for “Business, Super Elite, Elite, and Star Gold” members and I was able to quickly get scanned and verified for departure. She was not the smartest person out there as she kept looking for my UK visa on my Spanish passport … I was headed to MAD and had to use it. Oh well.
As one enters the Boeing 767, the first positive impression is created by the soothing blue colors that AC seems to keep on during the boarding process. I was greeted by the rather elderly service director (let’s call her Ms. AC-SD) and told that the walk was short. During the entire boarding process, I did not see anyone else on the cabin help Ms. AC-SD with the process. There were a few younger crew members just standing in the aisles in the own zone. There was a old British lady in the last row of Business, and the crew members just stood there watching until I went to help. Oh what a contrast it was from those WestJet crew members!
J load was 90% … but I overheard Ms. AC-SD say that I was one of the two full revenue tickets on the entire flight! Mostly standby and upgraded passengers today.
Airport - External:
(Edmonton Airport)
Check-in:
(Air Canada: Business & Elite Check-In)
Airport - Internal:
(Post Security @ YEG)
Scenes of the tarmac:
NONE
Lounge
(Air Canada’s Maple Leaf Lounge)
*
*
(Enjoying my meager offering)
Boarding:
(Gate Area)
(Boarding)
NONE
III> In-Flight:
a) Service Schedule + Impressions:
On each seat was a blanket and a bottle of water. Headphones were provided with the seat. Service included:
+ Drink service on the ground – sparkling wine or water
+ Amenity kit distributed
+ Menu’s distributred
+ Skimpy hot towels prior to meal service commencing
+ Meal service with beverage
+ Duty free service
+ Supposed breakfast service (see below)
+ LHR fast track and Arrivals Lounge invitations prior to descent @ LHR
b) Aircraft + Seats:
Air Canada’s “XM’d” 763 looked truly immaculate, and I was impressed how an upgrade could completely transform an aircraft to look brand new. The interior is spotless and well-maintained and the blue hue was extremely pleasant to the eye. The bathrooms were well stocked throughout the flight and was clean even after the 8+ hour flight at LHR.
AC’s J class configuration for their 763 include the herringbone 1-1-1 staggered layout. The seats are 180 degrees lie flat, have a 70” pitch, with 20.4” width. While the seat was comfortable, the lack of storage was annoying. Also, the magazine rack was cramped and the overall seat material was not the best in the market.
As mentioned, I was not a big fan of the seat material. However, it is extremely comfortable, and I did appreciate all the pre-set postures. Additionally, seat is extremely comfortable in lie flat situation and I was able to snooze off for over 5+ hours. You do have to get use to the some uncomfortable folds, but you do that pretty easily I think.
What is super weird about the staggered layout is when the aircraft taxis and makes turns, you can really feel the entire fuselage turning as you face side-ways. Does this make sense? It also feels weird facing side-ways when taking off and landing. While looking at the bins, you kinda feel the whole aircraft moving and taking off.
Oh, and I did like how the blue lights for the seat controls auto-turned on and off based on what position you were in.
Aircraft:
(Our 763 @ YEG)
Views from Aircraft:
(An AC E-Jet)
General Seat Views + Seat Legroom
(Seat)
(Front of seat)
(Seat controls)
(Legroom)
Seat Recline + Angle View:
(Full Flat Bed)
(Bulkhead view. 1A provides unmatched privacy in AC’s Executive First)
(AC’s seat description)
Cabin:
*
(Bathroom)
NONE
c) Meal + Beverage:
The sparkling wine served on the ground lacked fizz. Dinner service was rather elaborate with each item being brought out separately. Now, this is one of my pet peeves on a red-eye intercontinental flight … especially one heading East. Because of the time zones involved, all I want to do is eat fast (or, eat at the lounge) and go to sleep. On Air Canada, no consideration was given to this. When I requested if it was possible to have an “express service”, I was told that “this was not possible as it would interrupt their service flow”. Seriously? Whatever happened to no service request being too much? Anyways, a part of me cannot blame them I guess … the YEG-LHR flight was full of people who seemed to enjoy EVERY piece of service offered in the J-cabin. Nothing wrong with that – but the irony being the service was “catered” to upgrades and staff members instead of those who had genuinely paid for the seat. Oh well. I was still flying JCL to put things in perspective …
Dinner started with cold nuts and some more of that sparkling wine. Then, it was the starter which consisted of a nice warm bread, some very generous portioned and equally tasty fritters and salmon. I chose the slightly underwhelming chicken/rice dinner combination, but the dessert with my usual port was very nice.
Prior to getting some sleep, I asked one of the younger crew members (let’s call her “Ms. AC-2”) who had been dour throughout the flight if she could make sure I wake up for breakfast. She said, “Yes. We wake everyone” in a curt manner and went away. Anyways, I had dozed off completely and was woken up by the purser gently waking me up as we were about to descend to LHR. I was taken aback a bit and disappointed. When I flagged Ms. AC-2, she simply shrugged and said she forgot. No apologies, no offer to get me something from the galley, nothing. What slightly bothered me was not the fact that I missed out on a meal service, it was just the overall blasé attitude of not caring.
Overall, decent meal quality … but not award winning by any shot.
(Menu)
NONE GIVEN
(Water at seat)
(Welcome drink)
(Dinner starts with some drinks)
(Pretty solid appetizer)
(Decent main)
(Passable dessert, with my trademark Port wine)
d) Inflight Entertainment:
First of all, all airlines need to go to Air India to see what kind of headphones are needed. AI’s Y class headphones were better than the crap given onboard AC. Thankfully, the actual system was pretty good … and featured a decent collection of movies, games, television shows, etc. I had seen many of their movies, so ended up seeing a half decent Canadian flick whose name I do not recall. Added to this, a good in-flight magazine and you really have no reason to complain about the standard of service. One thing though … can we please cut the amount of advertising before each movie/TV?!
(AC’s “En Route” System)
*
*
(Flight Plan & Interactive Maps)
(Controller & Headset)
(“In-flight magazines”, Boarding Passes, etc.: Not too shabby – loved the postcards in the magazine)
e) Crew:
Wow. What a change from the WestJet crew that had been in charge of the flight before. The contrast could not have been starker. Juxtaposed against the pro-active and friendly WestJet crew, this AC crew seemed to be from a different planet. There were no smiles, no pro-active water runs, no help during the boarding process, no meaningful engagement with the passengers, nothing. Furthermore, the action of the Ms. AC-2 left me a sour taste in my mouth.
I recognize that the crewmembers are going through a lot of turmoil with their management, but this was not the way to behave. A basic level of professionalism needs to always be maintained I think. What was even more interesting is that the older service director who had been with AC for apparently 30 years was actually the best of the crew members – here is someone who probably lost the most in benefits, and yet, was able to provide decent service. The 2 new girls were the diva, unhappy with life, and bringing their miserable attitude to work. What a disappointment, I must say. Oh and please, don’t talk loudly about all your problems and the next shape of “who is sleeping with whom” in the forward galley. As a passenger in 1A, I can hear everything! The only other airline where I found crew to be so loud in personal conversation was on Emirates … and I am NOT a fan of them either.
As I left, a huge part of me just wanted the Canadian government to stay out of the AC mess, and let the markets dictate who would survive. I imagined a Canadian landscape where WestJet and First Air flew long-haul with crew members who actually understood what good business sense means.
Having said this, I recognize how hard it must be for crew members whose livelihood keeps on being eroded by a management team that is ineffective in driving change. Come on, if your teams are not working, change it!
IV> Post-Flight:
Arrival into LHR was smooth and using fast track, I was out within minutes. Now, AC has an arrivals lounge at LHR catering to their many arrivals (YVR, YEG, YYC, YYZ, YUL, YOW, YHZ, and YYT). This is an absolute blessing and I was able to take a nice shower and have a good café. The lounge was not going to win any awards, but I surely enjoyed and appreciated its existence and wished more airlines did this.
(Arriving @ LHR always is exciting for plane spotting)
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
(Invitation to the Arrivals Lounge @ LHR)
*
(The Arrivals Lounge @ LHR)
*
*
(And, the shower)
V> Impressions + Scores:
Air Canada has done a lot of right things over the years. While not revolutionary, their hard product in Business is very good. The herringbone shaped seats provides a good amount of comfort, and ensures a good night sleep. Furthermore, their in-flight entertainment is actually pretty good and I would dare to say the best in North America. It is miles ahead of WestJet.
While some of their soft products are acceptable (lounge, food, amenity kit, beverage, ground services, etc.), it is when it comes to their inflight crew that everything falls apart. They just did not understand the basis of good service. As a global airline, the crew must understand that it will never be able to restore brand health if it engaged in such poor practices. What was disappointing was that it was not the older crew who were poor, it was the younger ones. I shudder to imagine how they would be in a few years.
Overall, an average/good flight turned to poor due to the crew. However, due to all the other good things and the good seat, I’d continue to fly AC. It is just that unlike airlines such as First Air or WestJet in Canada, I would never go seek them. Price and schedules would dictate everything. One thumb down.
So there you have it – 5 flights with 5 diverse Canadian airlines. First Air and WestJet clearly superior. Air North rather average. Canadian North, best avoided. Air Canada … oh what a crew.
(Note on Codes: Y – Economy, J – Business, F – First :: I/D – International/Domestic :: SR/MR/LR – Short/Medium/Long Haul)
(Note on Date: Dates are modified to be +/- 3 days from actual flight date to not reveal actual flight pattern)
VII> Other Pictures:
(Amenity kit)
* Unbiased view on how an actual traveler may view the flight
* Not a professional photographer (so please keep in mind)
* Commitment that I won’t identify myself to the airline as “reviewing them”
MSS658 From Belgium, joined Oct 2010, 2202 posts, RR: 14 Reply 1, posted (12 months 12 hours ago) and read 19500 times:
Hi Alex.
Interesting report, thanks for sharing it with us.
Quite surprised to hear about the crew's actions.
I flew CDG-YYZ-CDG a few months ago and had an excellent expercience. However I did find out they where only 6 F/As working on the 767. A bit too less IMO.
Thankfully the hard product made up for it.
LH4116 From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 1672 posts, RR: 15 Reply 2, posted (12 months 6 hours ago) and read 18537 times:
Hey Alex, great report! Nice to see the ending of your canadian adventure!
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): Though, aren’t Canadian domestic departing passengers allowed into this lounge? I hope our Canadian A.Netters can shed some light.
Hmm I think AC have the same system as the US carriers, i.e only allow domestic pax if they have a lounge membership card. Could probably be the reason why.
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): he kept looking for my UK visa on my Spanish passport … I was headed to MAD and had to use it. Oh well.
A Spanish passport? Jesus how many passports do you have? I thought that Liechtenstein one was all you needed
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): J load was 90% … but I overheard Ms. AC-SD say that I was one of the two full revenue tickets on the entire flight! Mostly standby and upgraded passengers today.
Wow now that's an impressive number, only 2 revenue pax! No wonder the airline is bleeding so much money...
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): I had seen many of their movies, so ended up seeing a half decent Canadian flick whose name I do not recall.
Haha, it seems like you always end up watching some cheesy flick on your Air Canada flights. I remember your last report on them you watched some Italian – Moroccan roadtrip movie, that you didn't like
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): What was disappointing was that it was not the older crew who were poor, it was the younger ones. I shudder to imagine how they would be in a few years.
Now that seems to also be the case with SAS, where the elder crews (ARN based, and not the devious CPH ones) actually show more dedication and passion in their jobs, as opposed to the younger ones who pretty much fit your description of the AC ones. Really makes me wonder how the future of these airlines will be, and what the managements will do to try and solve these problems.
"Wheels Up!"
//Jonas
I won't stop complaining until SAS reintroduces free service in Economy Class!
debonair From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2096 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (12 months 4 hours ago) and read 18054 times:
Nice TR, as always...
Amazinmg that AC is offering an ArrivalLounge @ LHR- so how many arrivals do they have in LHR per day?
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): Air Canada%u2019s %u201CXM%u2019d%u201D 763 looked truly immaculate, and I was impressed how an upgrade could completely transform an aircraft to look brand new.
Are you serious? Must have been the best joke ever! I totally disagree with you...
The AC B767 looks outdated, rocked down, worn and totally from a different century- just compare it to this up-graded B767 of JAL on the right- WHAT A DIFFERENCE (B777 styled over-head bins, large LCD screens). Purple mood-lights and new seats on AC are giving a "fresher" look, but in my opinion, the cabin ceiling and atmosphere is still retro!
flightsimboy From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 848 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (12 months 3 hours ago) and read 17891 times:
Hello again Alex
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): WestJet’s great 73H on YYZ-YYC (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/216888/)
Just replied to this one!!
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): it was time to wrap my visit by flying on the mainline Air Canada.
Mainline they are
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): Booking was done on Air Canada’s excellent website (www.aircanada.com). One gets the ability to make seat selections, view itineraries, change flights/seats, and log on and print e-tickets. It is an extremely well designed website and I must give AC tremendous praise for it.
Yup, AC's website can get you booked and ready in no time. Almost as nice as EK's and EY (if you could book your window seat) as well as TK's (did some dummy bookings, but was quite upset when they said the window seat is not guaranteed)
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): I decided to check out the unimaginatively named “Maple Leaf Lounge” (come on Canadians, the Maple tree is grown in like a small part of Ontario!)
Come on, Alex, the Maple Leaf is the National symbol so why not name the lounge too lol
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): Though, aren’t Canadian domestic departing passengers allowed into this lounge?
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): As one enters the Boeing 767, the first positive impression is created by the soothing blue colors that AC seems to keep on during the boarding process.
And during take off too, I see many AC jets at YYZ at night when departing with the windows in a pinkish or blue hue. Isn't it standard procedure to have the aircraft cabin lights turned off for take off?
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): During the entire boarding process, I did not see anyone else on the cabin help Ms. AC-SD with the process. There were a few younger crew members just standing in the aisles in the own zone. There was a old British lady in the last row of Business, and the crew members just stood there watching until I went to help.
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): J load was 90% … but I overheard Ms. AC-SD say that I was one of the two full revenue tickets on the entire flight! Mostly standby and upgraded passengers today.
Did the younger crew members perhaps think she was just one of the "regular upgrades" lol. As far as assisting with luggage I know EK and even EY will not help put your bags up in the overhead bins.
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): The sparkling wine served on the ground lacked fizz. Dinner service was rather elaborate with each item being brought out separately. Now, this is one of my pet peeves on a red-eye intercontinental flight … especially one heading East. Because of the time zones involved, all I want to do is eat fast (or, eat at the lounge) and go to sleep. On Air Canada, no consideration was given to this. When I requested if it was possible to have an “express service”, I was told that “this was not possible as it would interrupt their service flow”. Seriously? Whatever happened to no service request being too much? Anyways, a part of me cannot blame them I guess … the YEG-LHR flight was full of people who seemed to enjoy EVERY piece of service offered in the J-cabin.
The upgrades probably enjoyed the pampering service, rather than just have a food tray handed out to them in Y lol. I guess in terms of "dine on demand in J" is years behind with AC.
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): Prior to getting some sleep, I asked one of the younger crew members (let’s call her “Ms. AC-2”) who had been dour throughout the flight if she could make sure I wake up for breakfast. She said, “Yes. We wake everyone” in a curt manner and went away. Anyways, I had dozed off completely and was woken up by the purser gently waking me up as we were about to descend to LHR. I was taken aback a bit and disappointed. When I flagged Ms. AC-2, she simply shrugged and said she forgot. No apologies, no offer to get me something from the galley, nothing. What slightly bothered me was not the fact that I missed out on a meal service, it was just the overall blasé attitude of not caring.
That was really not a very good experience for someone in J.
With that brand name I am surprised they seemed to be so shabby. The headphones in EY Y class are awesome!!
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): e) Crew:
Wow. What a change from the WestJet crew that had been in charge of the flight before. The contrast could not have been starker. Juxtaposed against the pro-active and friendly WestJet crew, this AC crew seemed to be from a different planet. There were no smiles, no pro-active water runs, no help during the boarding process, no meaningful engagement with the passengers, nothing. Furthermore, the action of the Ms. AC-2 left me a sour taste in my mouth.
Already commented about the AC crew on your WS report
If you were to ask me compared to the two in terms of overall experiences between AC and EK, AC provides a more consistent service with it's FAs than EK.
Wow and to say that you are not a fan of EK, that must mean something. Did I miss reading out the reports on EK from you?
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): Now, AC has an arrivals lounge at LHR catering to their many arrivals (YVR, YEG, YYC, YYZ, YUL, YOW, YHZ, and YYT)
Can almost make AC jets collected at LHR seem like an airport in Canada
Does one have to exit the airport to use this, not that I will ever have the opportunity to use one lol
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): Air Canada has done a lot of right things over the years. While not revolutionary, their hard product in Business is very good. The herringbone shaped seats provides a good amount of comfort, and ensures a good night sleep. Furthermore, their in-flight entertainment is actually pretty good and I would dare to say the best in North America. It is miles ahead of WestJet.
(The PH stamp of approval lol)
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): While some of their soft products are acceptable (lounge, food, amenity kit, beverage, ground services, etc.), it is when it comes to their inflight crew that everything falls apart. They just did not understand the basis of good service. As a global airline, the crew must understand that it will never be able to restore brand health if it engaged in such poor practices. What was disappointing was that it was not the older crew who were poor, it was the younger ones. I shudder to imagine how they would be in a few years.
I think they need to revamp their training and perhaps hire more dedicated crews. I am starting to think these young ones might be the ex-EK crews who have had their stint in DXB and now continuing their careers with AC lol. (just joking_ Though I am following a blog of an ex-EK cabin crew who is now a Westjetter and she truly loved her job at EK as much as she is now enjoying it WS.
OP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1678 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16306 times:
As usual, an entertaining and comprehensive trip report.
It is disappointing to see AC's service drop down to the levels of most of its North American counterparts. It seems like the crew was younger than it tends to be on US airlines, correct?
Also, how did the Arrivals lounge compare to that of others at LHR?
PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6183 posts, RR: 79 Reply 8, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16084 times:
Hi Alex,
very interesting AC review. What a disappointing flight that was. I have mixed feelings about AC - the crews were quite good on my trip to California some years ago. At least the airshow is working now.
Quoting LH4116 (Reply 2):
Wow now that's an impressive number, only 2 revenue pax! No wonder the airline is bleeding so much money...
That was one flight on a certain day. You can hardly draw a conclusion from that.
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): She was not the smartest person out there as she kept looking for my UK visa on my Spanish passport
Haha
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): When I requested if it was possible to have an “express service”, I was told that “this was not possible as it would interrupt their service flow”. Seriously? Whatever happened to no service request being too much? Anyways, a part of me cannot blame them I guess … the YEG-LHR flight was full of people who seemed to enjoy EVERY piece of service offered in the J-cabin. Nothing wrong with that – but the irony being the service was “catered” to upgrades and staff members instead of those who had genuinely paid for the seat. Oh well. I was still flying JCL to put things in perspective …
Clearly they've missed a trick or two. Any "real" business travellers will want to maximise their sleep. Very poor too that they couldn't serve your meal a bit faster
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): She said, “Yes. We wake everyone” in a curt manner and went away. Anyways, I had dozed off completely and was woken up by the purser gently waking me up as we were about to descend to LHR. I was taken aback a bit and disappointed. When I flagged Ms. AC-2, she simply shrugged and said she forgot. No apologies, no offer to get me something from the galley, nothing
jamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 518 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 15814 times:
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): This report will cover AC’s YEG-LHR flight in their Executive First cabin, and will be the first report on A.Net on this routing.
Although your report was much better than mine ... sadly I traveled during the early phases of the 767 XM conversion, and got an unmodernised aircraft. I also reluctantly bypassed the arrivals thanks to the efficient staff at LHR ensuring I made my connection to MAN.
klkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 803 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15737 times:
Quoting debonair (Reply 3): Are you serious? Must have been the best joke ever! I totally disagree with you...
The AC B767 looks outdated, rocked down, worn and totally from a different century- just compare it to this up-graded B767 of JAL on the right- WHAT A DIFFERENCE (B777 styled over-head bins, large LCD screens). Purple mood-lights and new seats on AC are giving a "fresher" look, but in my opinion, the cabin ceiling and atmosphere is still retro!
Are you serious? You would choose to fly in that cramped JAL plane with 2-2-2 Biz over AC's 1-1-1 fully flat product because of the luggage bins and LCD screens?!?!?!?! Wow is all I have to say.
Great trip report OP. Too bad you had a bad crew, though, that can ruin everything.
Carfield From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1726 posts, RR: 9 Reply 12, posted (11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 15715 times:
Thanks for another wonderful trip report!
Air Canada continues to be disappointing and the service level has failed continuously during the past decade. I remembered the days when AC was really trying very hard to be a better airline. Now I agree that flying Westjet is more pleasurable than flying AC.
The F/A attitudes are inexcusable.
No wonder AC is so afraid of open skies and allowing other airlines to fly to Canada.
stipica From Croatia, joined Feb 2011, 398 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15157 times:
Hi Alex ! ... me just around ... somehow I have a special interest for AC ... kinda quiet and modest company but with integrity ... but this is just my illusory observation because I've never flown with them ...
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): forcing you go to an OTA. And of course, once you go to an OTA,
my reputation is jeopardized ... what is OTA ? ... tried to google but no ... total lobotomy
probably some construction company needs work ... hmmm ah no this is Canada country of the free market hehehe
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): what’s up with “ILBST” being more in fashion in Western countries than the original inventors?
hehehe fashion yeah ... I think this is a result of globalization ... run over to the goal hiihihhiih
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): What is super weird about the staggered layout is when the aircraft taxis and makes turns, you can really feel the entire fuselage turning as you face side-ways. Does this make sense?
obviously yes ... personally do not like that concept ( flew with VS ) and I have similar feeling ...window view does not exist and watch bare feet while you eating is so appetizing heheheh
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): when it comes to their inflight crew that everything falls apart
sad ...shame if the most of the crew is like that ...very unprofessional ...
abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 55 Reply 14, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14570 times:
Quoting debonair (Reply 13): Yeap, you are right, I remember well the old "Executive First Class"!
But, on the other hand, sad to see that even European Charter carrier a la Thomson investing into the new B777 design- and AC still keeps the original 80's cabin interior.
= Fair point I guess.
Quoting kiramakora (Reply 15):
I am not surprised by this. I have had these poor experiences on Air Canada myself. WestJet should just order 787's and make AC go out of business.
= Well, I don't think I would want AC out of business as competition is a good thing. But, if WS goes long haul, AC would be in even bigger trouble.
Quoting OP3000 (Reply 16): It is disappointing to see AC's service drop down to the levels of most of its North American counterparts. It seems like the crew was younger than it tends to be on US airlines, correct?
= The purser was older and wonderful - rest of the crew were young and really the character (in a not positive way) ...
Quoting OP3000 (Reply 16): Also, how did the Arrivals lounge compare to that of others at LHR?
= VS is MUCH better ... but I did appreciate having one nevertheless.
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 17): very interesting AC review. What a disappointing flight that was. I have mixed feelings about AC - the crews were quite good on my trip to California some years ago. At least the airshow is working now.
= If the crew and IFE were good, why do you have mixed feelings?
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 17): That was one flight on a certain day. You can hardly draw a conclusion from that.
=
Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 18): Nice report Alex! The XM cabin looks good, but why didn't they update those horrible overheads!?
= Good point.
Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 18): Clearly they've missed a trick or two. Any "real" business travellers will want to maximise their sleep. Very poor too that they couldn't serve your meal a bit faster
= I know - especially because the JCL lounge did not have a dinner service.
Quoting jamesontheroad (Reply 19): Ahem... not entirely true MAN-ORD-YEG-LHR-MAN: BD & UA In Y & AC In J (by Jamesontheroad Jan 5 2008 in Trip Reports)
Although your report was much better than mine ... sadly I traveled during the early phases of the 767 XM conversion, and got an unmodernised aircraft. I also reluctantly bypassed the arrivals thanks to the efficient staff at LHR ensuring I made my connection to MAN.
Thanks for sharing!
= My bad - the A.Net search function is truly bad. Thanks again - and your report was great!
Quoting Carfield (Reply 21): Air Canada continues to be disappointing and the service level has failed continuously during the past decade. I remembered the days when AC was really trying very hard to be a better airline. Now I agree that flying Westjet is more pleasurable than flying AC.
= Where have you flown when them usually?
Quoting Carfield (Reply 21): No wonder AC is so afraid of open skies and allowing other airlines to fly to Canada.
= Some I agree with ... but mostly you are right.
Quoting stipica (Reply 22):
Hi Alex ! ... me just around ... somehow I have a special interest for AC ... kinda quiet and modest company but with integrity ... but this is just my illusory observation because I've never flown with them ...
= Time to change that EH ?
Quoting stipica (Reply 22): my reputation is jeopardized ... what is OTA ? ... tried to google but no ... total lobotomy
= Yes. Very disappointed ... OTA = Online Travel Agency (ex: Orbitz)
Quoting stipica (Reply 22): probably some construction company needs work ... hmmm ah no this is Canada country of the free market hehehe
= Canada is definitely NOT the benchmark of free market principles ... and, it has its share of white-elephant corruption questioning projects as well.
ba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8258 posts, RR: 56 Reply 15, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14298 times:
Great read Alex, thanks for posting your usual comprehensive report.
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): AC’s J class configuration for their 763 include the herringbone 1-1-1 staggered layout
- I've never liked these herringbone layouts, just not my thing.
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): Dinner service was rather elaborate with each item being brought out separately. Now, this is one of my pet peeves on a red-eye intercontinental flight … especially one heading East. Because of the time zones involved, all I want to do is eat fast (or, eat at the lounge) and go to sleep
- That's crazy, a quick meal service is what these red-eye east coast bound flights are all about.
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): Dinner started with cold nuts and some more of that sparkling wine
- No champagne?
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): Prior to getting some sleep, I asked one of the younger crew members (let’s call her “Ms. AC-2”) who had been dour throughout the flight if she could make sure I wake up for breakfast. She said, “Yes. We wake everyone” in a curt manner and went away. Anyways, I had dozed off completely and was woken up by the purser gently waking me up as we were about to descend to LHR. I was taken aback a bit and disappointed. When I flagged Ms. AC-2, she simply shrugged and said she forgot. No apologies, no offer to get me something from the galley, nothing. What slightly bothered me was not the fact that I missed out on a meal service, it was just the overall blasé attitude of not caring.
- That's really poor service or lack of, I trust you have written in to AC with your comments?
It does seem as if AC are a mixed bag, there are many reports where they are seemingly 'great' and then ones where it's a 'duff' flight - just shows how important the crew are on the day, it's a make or break experience for that individual flight which can either bring repeat custom or loss if it going forward.
dc9northwest From Romania, joined Feb 2007, 1734 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 14215 times:
Hi again, Alex!
A bit late this time, but here are some comments:
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): So after having experienced the three main Northern airlines, and having flown the excellent WestJet (Canada’s only viable “other” national airline), it was time to wrap my visit by flying on the mainline Air Canada.
Well, a good way to wrap up everything. I forget, did you try Porter on this trip, or at all?
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): The initial plan was to fly Central Mountain Air who flies one of the remaining prop Dornier 328’s on YYC to YEG. Sadly, their sole aircraft was out of operation, and I settled for Air Canada to take me from YYC to YEG, and then to my LHR flight.
That's a shame... The Dornier 328 look like very pretty planes with nice lines.
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): It is not perfect though … for example, try booking a multi-city trip, and it gives absurd pricing forcing you go to an OTA. And of course, once you go to an OTA, you cannot get all the functionality of the website.
Well, that's a shame. Yeah, I guess there are things which you miss out on if you choose a "non-traditional" journey type!
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): (what’s up with “ILBST” being more in fashion in Western countries than the original inventors?)
I don't know, but you should see what it looks like when they're boarding a 1-hr delayed 757-300 in FLL. Chaos...
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): She was not the smartest person out there as she kept looking for my UK visa on my Spanish passport … I was headed to MAD and had to use it. Oh well.
Hehe. These things never get old (well, I guess they might get old really fast for the passport holder!)
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): There was a old British lady in the last row of Business, and the crew members just stood there watching until I went to help.
Not a good first impression... Or second, I guess, if there was a greeting.
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): What is super weird about the staggered layout is when the aircraft taxis and makes turns, you can really feel the entire fuselage turning as you face side-ways. Does this make sense? It also feels weird facing side-ways when taking off and landing.
I felt something similar (well, half of it) when really forward on a MD-90... I think it's due to being very far from the center of gravity. Not sure how the layout affects the feeling though.
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): What slightly bothered me was not the fact that I missed out on a meal service, it was just the overall blasé attitude of not caring.
Yeah, a bad taste in one's mouth, especially considering you were one of only 2 paying passengers, you say.
I am not surprised by this. I have had these poor experiences on Air Canada myself. WestJet should just order 787's and make AC go out of business.
= Well, I don't think I would want AC out of business as competition is a good thing. But, if WS goes long haul, AC would be in even bigger trouble.
This is what I meant. I just cannot see how AC would compete effectively with WestJet. Already, AC has a lower share of the market when it goes head to head with foreign carriers on aggregate. I would love to see WestJet 787 flying Toronto - Buenos Aires!
jfidler From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 290 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (11 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13724 times:
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): While the seat was comfortable, the lack of storage was annoying.
First, great trip report, as usual.
I have flown AC J on their 777s a number of times, and I always pick the last row in the J cabin. Because there is no seat behind it, you get some extra storage space. I think you can see that in your photo of the seats also.
I have flown AC on ultra long-haul routes (YYZ-HKG, YYZ-PEK) and found the cabin service very good. Perhaps it has to do with the seniority or who gets placed on these routes.
AA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2271 posts, RR: 26 Reply 19, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 13553 times:
Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 12): Of course, there are going to be people who abuse any rule ... just like FA's who are not representation of the good work most FA's do ..
If you can't lift it yourself, it's not a carryon! There's bad apples at every workplace, but flight attendants aren't onboard baggage handlers. You packed it, dragged it to the airport, through the security checkpoint, and on to the plane, but then all of a sudden can't handle it? The EU got it right. It's unsafe to bring anything over a certain size/weight, and won't even get past the security check point. People need to take responsibility for their selves. And before you bring up the elderly, or incapacitated, they should not be allowed to bring anything large in the first place.
The carry on issue has gotten out of control, and is the reason boarding is chaotic and stressful. But alas...
canadianpylon From Canada, joined May 2003, 273 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (11 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13317 times:
Great trip report, as always. Wonderful pics and opinions!
Quoting abrelosojos (Thread starter): Why Edmonton built a new expanded airport is beyond me … the current facilities seemed more than sufficient in my opinion.
Apparently the airport was operating at 120%... Seems like a good reason to me.
Quoting kiramakora (Reply 6): I am not surprised by this. I have had these poor experiences on Air Canada myself. WestJet should just order 787's and make AC go out of business.
Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 14): = Well, I don't think I would want AC out of business as competition is a good thing. But, if WS goes long haul, AC would be in even bigger trouble.
Both airlines have the plus and minuses. Air Canada has a better IFE, schedule and list of destinations. WestJet has better Customer Service. What is easier to fix? It could take years for AC to rebuild a Customer Service centric culture based on empowered employees, but it will also take years for WestJet to build up a competitive regional and international fleet and schedule. With WestJets recent announcement of a regional arm of their operation, we now know what they are doing.
I don't think WestJet is all that and a bag of ketchup potato chips, though. Its customer service is good, and it's MILES ahead of the apathetic customer service mentality of Air Canada. Could it be better? Sure could... Could be worse? Hell yeah...it could be Air Canada.
I find this report a little disconcerting for one reason, though. A lot of the complaints you raised were raised by others that have traveled on AC domestically. Apparently, flying international on AC was very different than flying domestic, ie: way better. This is the first report I read that states it isn't all that different.
You have to remember that bashing Air Canada is a national past time. WestJet is still considered the underdog (though they are WAY more profitable than AC). There is this pervasive 'ABAC' feeling here. ('ABAC' --> 'Anything But Air Canada')
Always looking for the longest route with the most transfers.
abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 55 Reply 21, posted (11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12960 times:
Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 15): Great read Alex, thanks for posting your usual comprehensive report.
= You're welcome Mark. I am glad you enjoyed.
Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 15): - I've never liked these herringbone layouts, just not my thing.
= You know ... when they first came out, I thought they were innovative and all that ... now, I find the staggered layout such as new NH and LX as my favorite.
Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 15): That's crazy, a quick meal service is what these red-eye east coast bound flights are all about.
= Right?! BA and Virgin has perfected this art across the Atlantic I think.
= I am pretty sure it was sparkling wine - can some AC regulars clarify?
Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 15): - That's really poor service or lack of, I trust you have written in to AC with your comments?
= Yes. No comments back - that was quite some time ago.
Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 15): It does seem as if AC are a mixed bag, there are many reports where they are seemingly 'great' and then ones where it's a 'duff' flight - just shows how important the crew are on the day, it's a make or break experience for that individual flight which can either bring repeat custom or loss if it going forward.
Cheers
Mark
= You know, some of the super positive stuff is from AC folks - and they really should do the board a favor and disclose their intentions. Personally, I have enjoyed their service in the past - see former reports. However, of late (and including this flight), I have found them poor to mediocre. Take a look at their Facebook page and you'll see I am not alone.
Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 16): Well, a good way to wrap up everything. I forget, did you try Porter on this trip, or at all?
= No PD this time ... done it before and liked them. Would be interesting to see if they have a future ...
Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 16): That's a shame... The Dornier 328 look like very pretty planes with nice lines.
= Plan is to combine it with a DC3 later this year.
Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 16): I don't know, but you should see what it looks like when they're boarding a 1-hr delayed 757-300 in FLL. Chaos...
= Fair enough. Is this from personal experience?
Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 16): Not a good first impression... Or second, I guess, if there was a greeting.
= No.
Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 16):
Thanks for writing up the TR. Good to read about AC, even though I won't experience them anytime soon. Got PD and WS booked, though.
= What's the routing? When?
Quoting kiramakora (Reply 17): This is what I meant. I just cannot see how AC would compete effectively with WestJet. Already, AC has a lower share of the market when it goes head to head with foreign carriers on aggregate. I would love to see WestJet 787 flying Toronto - Buenos Aires!
= Haha. Fair. Though, if South America is served, I am betting on YYZ-GIG .
Quoting jfidler (Reply 18): I have flown AC J on their 777s a number of times, and I always pick the last row in the J cabin. Because there is no seat behind it, you get some extra storage space. I think you can see that in your photo of the seats also.
= This used to be my policy until you get stuck one curtain away from yelling babies ...
Quoting AA767400 (Reply 19): Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 12):
Of course, there are going to be people who abuse any rule ... just like FA's who are not representation of the good work most FA's do ..
If you can't lift it yourself, it's not a carryon! There's bad apples at every workplace, but flight attendants aren't onboard baggage handlers. You packed it, dragged it to the airport, through the security checkpoint, and on to the plane, but then all of a sudden can't handle it? The EU got it right. It's unsafe to bring anything over a certain size/weight, and won't even get past the security check point. People need to take responsibility for their selves. And before you bring up the elderly, or incapacitated, they should not be allowed to bring anything large in the first place.
The carry on issue has gotten out of control, and is the reason boarding is chaotic and stressful. But alas...
= I disagree. There are ways to do it - a proactive crew member can seek assistance from other passengers if they deem necessary. It is not the act of being "handlers" as much as the attitude that goes behind it.
Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 20):
Apparently the airport was operating at 120%... Seems like a good reason to me.
= Really? I just ran their schedules and find this hard to believe.
Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 20): Both airlines have the plus and minuses. Air Canada has a better IFE, schedule and list of destinations. WestJet has better Customer Service. What is easier to fix? It could take years for AC to rebuild a Customer Service centric culture based on empowered employees, but it will also take years for WestJet to build up a competitive regional and international fleet and schedule. With WestJets recent announcement of a regional arm of their operation, we now know what they are doing.
= I would disagree though - as one of the top most profitable airlines in the world, I would argue that WS has built a great schedule and the right mix of destinations. Why go to places that a/ no one wants to fly to and b/ you can't do it profitably?
Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 20): I don't think WestJet is all that and a bag of ketchup potato chips, though. Its customer service is good, and it's MILES ahead of the apathetic customer service mentality of Air Canada. Could it be better? Sure could... Could be worse? Hell yeah...it could be Air Canada.
= I have flown around the world and let me tell you that I think WS customer service is industry leading - especially true for a North American carrier.
Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 20): I find this report a little disconcerting for one reason, though. A lot of the complaints you raised were raised by others that have traveled on AC domestically. Apparently, flying international on AC was very different than flying domestic, ie: way better. This is the first report I read that states it isn't all that different.
= Ya. Worse is that my previous reports on AC were generally positive.
Quoting canadianpylon (Reply 20): You have to remember that bashing Air Canada is a national past time. WestJet is still considered the underdog (though they are WAY more profitable than AC). There is this pervasive 'ABAC' feeling here. ('ABAC' --> 'Anything But Air Canada')
= Fair enough ... but I am not Canadian or live in Canada and all my recent experiences point to why WestJet is so loved and continues to win awards for its culture and customer service across the country.
dc9northwest From Romania, joined Feb 2007, 1734 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 12933 times:
Hi Alex,
Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 21): Fair enough. Is this from personal experience?
Oh yes, coming back from the Bahamas... The Jacksonville weather radar was down causing delays for most flights in and out of FLL... Including my 753... Had to almost fight my way through all the waiting pax.
Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 21): Plan is to combine it with a DC3 later this year.
Well, nothing *too* interesting, but since you asked, I'm doing OTP-AMS-YUL to get on the M11 again, then YUL-YTZ on Porter and YYZ-LGA-MCI on WS/DL, getting both the 736 and Westjet's new(?) route to NY. Dates are around mid-September (16-18).
abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 55 Reply 23, posted (11 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12408 times:
Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 31): Well, nothing *too* interesting, but since you asked, I'm doing OTP-AMS-YUL to get on the M11 again, then YUL-YTZ on Porter and YYZ-LGA-MCI on WS/DL, getting both the 736 and Westjet's new(?) route to NY. Dates are around mid-September (16-18).
= Hmm. Quite the interesting itinerary. Are you going to write trip reports for them all? I hope so!
Let me know if you will have some time to linger on both PD and WS. I have a few friends I can reach out to.
pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2045 posts, RR: 12 Reply 24, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11795 times:
Quoting Carfield (Reply 12): No wonder AC is so afraid of open skies and allowing other airlines to fly to Canada.
AC is on record as publically stating they want full Open Skies with the US. Open Skies exists with the EU.
Thanks A for the thorough report.
Like all airlines the service level can be spotty with who the FA are on a particular flight. I think YEG-LHR is not one of the premier flights for cross Atlantic service and might be at the bottom of the pecking order for bidding. In general in all service industries "younger" staff are requiring even more training and much more prehiring screening for customer service. They view customers as a necessary evil rather than a part of the job to take pride in. That being said not all older staff are immune to being sour, but there seems to be a real cultural shift in society.
That being said I will always choose AC over any US Legacy carriers for Canada-US cross border - there is a reason they win best cross border business airline over many of the much larger US carriers.
Can I ask a question? Did you in any way communicate your displeasure with AC either through the web or to the incharge? I recently reported a problem with someone that way and was blown away that I both got an answer and that the response was great.
25 AA767400: I believe luggage should not be in the cabin period. Small bags, purses, and totes yes. There are ways to do a lot of things, and in this world, not
26 abrelosojos: = Yes. Emailed AC and sent them a copy of this report - they have not responded back. Given the amount of time it has been, I don't expect an answer
27 The777Man: Hi Alex ! I guess I missed this one while on recent trip to Europe..... Seat and meals look okay but the crew is the most important ingredient and the
28 whiteguy: "The initial plan was to fly Central Mountain Air who flies one of the remaining prop Dornier 328’s on YYC to YEG. Sadly, their sole aircraft was ou
29 fidelidade: I can't understand why sparkling wine is served in a glass which I only see fit for Coke Zero. I am shocked also that the dessert had no options with
30 abrelosojos: = No worries. I know you are a busy man . Why was the YVR-LAX flight so great for you? = Cool. Good to know. I am back next summer and this is one of
31 The777Man: Nice crew I guess and I watched a great movie. I checked the running time of the movie and was able to finnish it as we passed Malibu on approach. Le
32 planiac787: Good trip report A! AC is probably the most in consistent airline I have read about on airliners.net. Even more than Air India. American and United co
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