I was in China for nearly a month, and did a lot of travelling. I’ll spare you the detailed text, and just share some of my favourite non-aviation photos as we go through.
So, from Beijing Capital Airport (PEK), I headed across the city to meet a friend for lunch, and then down to Beijing Nanyuan Airport (NAY). This is located down in the south of the city, and served only by the Chinese Military’s civilian transport arm, China United Airlines. For many years I’ve tried various ways to fly on this airline and from the other Beijing airport. Finally it’s worked out! NAY is actually China’s oldest airport (and 40th busiest), having celebrated it’s centenary in 2010. It is scheduled to be shut down in 2017 when the new super-airport in the far South of Beijing is opened.
As I said, this is a military airport, so the normal laissez faire attitude of photography in China is waived in this airport….most of the photos were taken with my phone.
I arrived at NAY just over an hour before departure. Check in was a bit of a mess, but I was checked in without too much of a wait, and given a window seat in the 2nd row of economy.
Security was quick, and before long I was in a rather busy, and terribly sterile and bland waiting area.
FIDS…oh dear, doesn’t look good does it. I’m on the 1805 to Chengdu. Given the massive delay on the earlier CTU flight, I feared that any slot/plane that might come up for us would be given to them, thus also giving us a massive delay. I’m a little surprised about the codesharing with MU (China Eastern). KN used to/is 80% owned by Shanghai Airlines (notice the similarities with the livery?), but I guess that has now passed to MU?
A KN jet taxiing past
And something a little different
After a while, things started moving along…planes started landing, and then departing again.
Finally boarding an hour or so late…of course being a military airport, there’s no attempt at a real explanation for the delay….clearly it’s not a weather delay.
The empty tarmac
Escalator onto the tarmac, and into the waiting bus
Oh no, looks like it will be an MU jet today
B-2684 today
September 2012
Beijing Nanyuan (NAY) – Chengdu (CTU)
China United KN 2283
Scheduled: 1710-1950 (2h40m)
Actual: 1841-2118 (2h37m)
Boeing 737-700 B-2684
Economy Class
.
.
Welcome aboard!
The crew are all in MU uniforms, but announcements are all as per KN
An hour and a half late, we rocket (we have ex-military pilots, remember?!) into the beautiful Beijing evening
Half an hour after departure dinner is served. There is a usual choice of meat and rice, or meat and noodles. I go with the rice and chicken, which is surprisingly tasty. Sadly, all Chinese airlines have now stopped serving watery Chinese beer on domestics, so I go with a glass of lukewarm tea. What a feast!
Our rather haphazard route out of the Beijing area. I wonder if the pilots get annoyed at these funny routings.
With no sensible diversions available, I opt to sleep until we arrive at Chengdu’s glittering new terminal. We land 88 minutes late….8 is a lucky number in China – coincidence?
If the FIAS is to be believed, the earlier NAY flight only landed 6 minutes before us.
Glittery
Bags don’t take too long, and I’m soon in a taxi heading for the city.
Chengdu was the meeting point for a friend I went to uni with, where we’d be starting our 3 week tour of China. After many Skyping sessions, we decided on a route around Sichuan and Yunnan provinces, before heading back to Beijing for a reunion with a few more uni friends. She flew in from CDG via PVG on a combination of Air China and Chengdu Airlines…her PVG-CTU flight was 2 hours late as well, with no particular excuse given.
First stop on our itinerary was Jiuzhaigou (geo-jai-go, 九寨沟), somewhere I’ve been wanting to visit for years. To sum it up: stunning, expensive, busy. Worth going to? Definitely. There are some great walks you can do through the valley, and if you try hard, you can escape the crowds (who like to stay on their tour buses). Some photos:
Day 2, the sun came out!
And my favourite photo of the 2,000+ I took over 2 days….
So, pretty nice, huh? the place is pretty remote, so we ended up taking a 10 hour bus to get there and back. A flight would have only taken 30 mins, but the cost was really quite outrageous. Having done the return trip, I think I’d plump for the plane in future, as the ride was scary.
First off, the driving was awful. We passed lots of crashes.
Drivers showed no mercy or compassion. Why help the driver how’s truck has hit a bus, when you can force your way past (blocking off the road to oncoming traffic)?
The scenery was amazing, but also terribly inhospitable. This was the area hit by the 2008 earthquake. I can understand now how 70,000 people died, and 5 million left homeless. When an earthquake strikes and you’re in a valley with a raging river, there’s nowhere to run to. The bridge in the middle is one of many still lying broken.
Continuing, some photos of Chengdu:
The famous “mask changing” of Sichuan
The diablo is a national pastime here (and where better to do it than in a bamboo grove?!)
The next stop on our trip would be Zhongdian, or better known in the west as Shangri-La. Well, this is what the Chinese have decided is Shangri-La at any rate. There is one daily flight from Chengdu, operated by China Eastern, sadly at night, so no nice views.
The nice exterior of CTU
Queuing at the communal check in. The queue was long, but moved quickly.
When I first came to China, the CAAC was busy amalgamating all the various regional airlines into just 3 (CA, MU and CZ). Today, the policy of “just three big airlines” has clearly been thrown out of the window. How many codes do you recognise? I’ve flown 10 of them. More appear every time I go back to China.
The view over departures
We paid a quick visit to the food hall on the upper level….a beer and some wonton soup
FIDS…another day, another delay
The CA flight to “Mengmai” is actually to Mumbai (BOM)….clearly the FIDS person didn’t know what to translate it to…not terribly useful for non-Chinese speakers.
We headed through security, and down to the gate
Xianggelila (aka Shangri-La)…”no time”, not a good sign, especially as it was quite a late arrival anyway
We were handed a bottle of water and some biscuits at the gate
About an hour after our STD, a plane taxied on stand…not too bad a delay I guess
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 1, posted (8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8792 times:
September 2012
Chengdu (CTU) – Shangri La (DIG)
China Eastern MU 58585
Scheduled: 2120-2230 (1h10m)
Actual: 2246-2354 (1h08m)
Boeing 737-700 B-5276
Economy Class
Finally, an hour after our STD, boarding starts
What a nice surprise….our plane is young and fitted with the new Boeing interior
The view outside
The magazine. The content was all in Chinese, but there were some very interesting articles. This was MU’s Yunnan branch’s magazine, and focussed on shorthual international routes.
A special safety card for just 4 planes
Once everyone’s sat down and the bags stowed (which took a while), the crew (whom look exhausted) make sure everyone’s strapped in, and off we go
Catering on this sector consists of just a small bottle of water
Peaceful cabin
Approach to Shangri-La….in daylight it would be spectacular!
And off we get
There’s a shop in baggage reclaim in case you are unprepared for the weather at over 10,000 feet (3,200m)
Anyone for oxygen? Or some red-spotted stonecrops!?
Arrivals
Thankfully our prearranged taxi is still waiting, and we’re soon in our cosy room in the old town
View from the room
Some photos of Shangri La
Off on a countryside cycle
The plane that brought us to DIG yesterday flew overhead
Old and new generations
Up the top of “Snow Mountain”…very cold and windy
A fake local BMW
At the Songzanlin Monstery
From Shangri La, we took a local bus through the mountains to Baishuitai, Yunnan’s answer to Pammukale
Our plan from Baishuitai was to drive to Lijiang for the night….however, a landslide in Tiger Leaping Gorge meant we’d be stuck in the gorge overnight….still, it was scenic
Our hotel is next to the bridge
The next day, we made the most of being stuck there to walk down to the raging torrents of the Yangtze
To get out of the gorge (without a 400 mile detour), we had to get past the landslide
As you can see, it was quite a large landslide, with a nice 200m drop straight into the river.
Thankfully, neither of us slipped, and we made it to Lijiang. I used to love Lijiang, but’s it’s famed vistas have caught the attention of massive numbers of Chinese tour groups that have overrun the town.
From Lijiang, it was down to Dali. Sadly this too has been a victim of its own success and is also terribly busy. We escaped the town for a day and did a very nice walk through the mountains though.
The famous Dali Pagodas
From Dali, we headed to the provincial capital of Kunming for a night, before heading to the brand new Kunming airport the next day for our flight up to Beijing. Of course, it was left to me to book our flights. When researching our options, MU had the best fares, with nearly all of their flights being the same price. One in particular caught my attention, MU 5721 as it had a stop in JIQ. Never heard of JIQ have you? I actually had to email GC Mapper to get them to add it to the database as it’s pretty new and gets very little traffic. It’s not far from Chongqing, and uses Wulingshan, Qianjiang and Zhoubai as it’s name (depending on where you’re looking, none of which seem to have a relative to the letters JIQ!). Of course, I wanted to get a free stopover here, so presented the arrivals times only to my friend, whilst kindly suggesting this flight…she said ok. Wonderful.
The new Kunming Changshui airport only opened in June this year, so we have hit it within it’s first 3 months of operations. The old KMG was small and old, but mercifully close to the city (just 5km or so). The new KMG is clean, new, beautiful, but fairly remote. Still we arrived in plenty of time for our flight.
The gorgeous new exterior…even my friend agreed with me for once that the airport was nice
FIDS…we’re on the Qianjiang flight. I had to feign horror to my friend when we “discovered” it was a stopper in the middle of nowhere.
In Chinese
All flights
Earlier flights
The rather interesting International board…note the A330 flight to Medinah. It was also interesting to see a flight to Surat Thani. Yunnanese headed to the Full Moon Party?
Lots of relatives seeing people off ahead of their Saudi pilgrimage
A view from outside
There was no queue at the dedicated PEK/PVG check in desks, and we were soon through security.
How many of these have you flown?
The Medinah flight
Not our plane
Our plane….as old as they get in China. This is the price to pay to get a stopover somewhere you’ve never heard of.
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 2, posted (8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8763 times:
September 2012
Kunming (KMG) - Wulingshan (JIQ)
China Eastern MU 5721
Scheduled: 1310-1450 (1h40m)
Actual: 1341-1503 (1h22m)
Boeing 737-300 B-2986
Economy Class
Interior….old and uncomfortable. The seats felt like you were in a cheap and broken deck chair.
Once boarding is completed, the crew drag a trolley to the front, and pass out bottles of water….not a good sign. I predict a delay to my friend. A few seconds later, a delay is announced with neither a reason or an ETD.
Thankfully half an hour later, we push back, and head off through the rain.
No views for them today. I hope they have good ground radar.
Great scheme from CA
It’s not all new and shiny
Another option on the PEK route
Rotate!
Sunny above the clouds
As they’d already handed out the water, the only thing left to offer was a packet with 4 Smint sized “sweets” in. I tried one…revolting.
Thankfully, the views upon approach to JIQ were worth the discomfort of the seats and catering.
Welcome to Wulingshan/Zhoubai/Qianjiang. I think the characters actually say Qianjiang. My 44th Chinese airport. Unsurprisingly, we’re the only aircraft here.
To my friends disgust (and my delight) everyone is forced to disembark. After the cold and damp weather of Kunming, it’s nice and humid here.
Cameras out! Nearly everyone takes a photo or two on the tarmac. I even convince my friend to take one of me, then force her to pose for one too! I’m trying to infuse an a.net spirit!
The majority of passengers are in transit
The terminal is compact and uninteresting. My friend sums up the shop as selling “duvets and pot noodles”…perfect. Time to reboard?
More photos on the way back
September 2012
Wulingshan (JIQ) – Beijing (PEK)
China Eastern MU 5721
Scheduled: 1530-1805 (2h35m)
Actual: 1549-1804 (2h15m)
Boeing 737-300 B-2986
Economy Class
They held back pax boarding here until all the transit pax were back onboard
Off we go again. The flight is completely full now, so we lose our empty middle seat. Initially there is a woman who looks like she is about to use the sick bag for its intended purpose. Thankfully, after take-off she swaps with her husband in the row behind and she cheers up a lot. I think she was just sad to be lumbered with the only foreigners on the plane.
Before long a real snack is served
I go with the rice and beef this time
Aviation food indeed
Still no beer…another lukewarm tea please!
The meal is pretty awful. A full and direct quote from my friend summing up the meal..…”gross”. I concur.
We spend the rest of the flight playing cards
Thankfully, Beijing soon comes into view. Again, thankfully, the clear skies are still as they were when I left 2 weeks previously.
CZ A380
We disembark quickly and head down to arrivals.
Baggage claim 15 for us.
Beijing airport has decided the stopover airport is called Zhoubai
We debate taking the airport train, but in the end decide to go for a taxi instead…big mistake. This was the Friday evening before China’s Golden Week. The traffic into town is the worst I have ever seen. At one stage we are stationary for 30 minutes.
It takes up 90 minutes to cover the 25 km to the hotel. Mercifully the hotel was worth the wait. I found an amazing deal on Expedia for the Peninsula. 5* for £100/night. The beds are amazingly soft...possibly the best bed I've ever had the fourtune to sleep in. Delicious.
The pool
Some moon cakes left in the room for Mid-Autumn Festival
A few photos of Beijing
Tiananmen Gate
The Great Hall of the People
The side of the Forbidden City
A great place for Beijing Duck
Some modern Art in Dashanzi 968
The top floor of the Emperor Hotel, a great place for a drink with views of the Forbidden City…and they even had Pimms!
After a very nice few days in Beijing catching up with old friends, it was time to head down south to catch my onward flight to Taipei from Hong Kong. I had numerous choices available to me. I wanted to visit a new airport, and/or use a new airline. My preference was for a flight from Tianjin (30 mins from Beijing) down to Guilin, but the fares were too high. In the end I settled for a flight from Beijing to Nanning (new) on Grand China Air (new), one of the many offshoots of Hainan Airlines.
I caught the airport express train from Sanyuanqiao back out to the airport. I’m not a fan of this train (unless the roads are completely clogged) as does a really slow loop stopping at first T3, then T2, so whichever terminal you’re going to, the chances are you will have to take a 10 minute detour either on arrival or departure. The trains are also not frequent enough and there is nowhere near enough seating or luggage storage space. To top off my frustrations, a nasty hangover from the 2008 Olympic security regulations are the annoying bag scanners in all the metro stations. If it wasn’t enough that the staff insist you use them even though 90% of the time, the person behind the screen is playing on their mobile phone, the airport express train stations have the same small hand luggage scanners 3 foot off the ground. Got a big bag? You just have to lift it up, and squish it through. Annoying!
However, I took it as I happened to be staying my final night just 50 m from the station.
Hainan Airline company airlines fly from Terminal 1, so I had to alight at T2, then walk.
T 2
A scenic walk from T 2 to T1.
The check in area was nice and spacious. HU and CN share check in desks. I asked the woman for an emergency exit row. Her immediate response was “no”. I asked her why. “No”. She refused to enter into any dialogue at all on the matter in either English or Chinese. How rude. She did check me in, however, and tagged my bags correctly.
As the check in agent was incapable to any sensible/civil conversation, I headed over to the empty First Class desk to ask if the flight was full…”fairly”. Ok, now were getting somewhere. “Can I have an emergency exit?”….some typing later, “sorry, they’re all full”. Ok, fair enough. “Are you able to block the middle seat next to me?”. Hmmm, a muffled phone call to somewhere. “Ok, no problem”. Excellent!
As I headed towards security I stopped by this machine that will, upon scanning your ID, issue you with a 1 hour pass to use the wifi.
The other side of security I saw this poster for the now defunct LGW-HKG premium service. I would have loved to try it out. I tried a few times to search for fares, but their website was so poor I couldn’t work out if it was for their Y+ or C seats. It was bound to fail really. Why fly HK Airlines from LGW when there are already 4 established airlines on the London - Hong Kong (BA/VS/NZ/CX) all with excellent business classes?
Airside
PEK is pretty busy now, having climbed steadily up the ranks of passenger number tables over the years. In 2001, PEK handled 27 million pax (#26 in the world). In 2011, just ten years later, PEK handled 77 million (taking it to #2 in word rankings). That’s nearly a 300% increase in a decade! ATL (#1 this year) has increase by 22%, and LHR (#3 this year) by 15% in comparison.
Capital Airlines
FIDS
My plane, B-2637
Departure lounge
After a little delay, everyone boards. I decide to leave the others to push on first, boarding right at the end.
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8765 times:
Beijing (PEK) – Nanning (NNG)
Grand China Air CN 7157
Scheduled: 1350-1715 (3h25m)
Actual: 1350-1651 (3h01m)
Boeing 737-800 B-2637
Economy Class
I’m fairly surprised to see upon boarding that a) it’s about +95% full in Y, and b) I’ve had 3 seats blocked for myself. Brilliant! Of course, before takeoff, someone moved to the aisle seat, but that was expected.
Pushing back
Another surprise, we take off bang on time.
This was the first time I saw the Great Wall from the plane…it’s the faint white line. Clearly, this cannot be seen from space! (in case anyone still believed that myth!)
Sadly, despite being scheduled at over 3 hours around lunchtime, the ubiquitous choice of “rice of noodles” had been substituted for “sandwich or nothing”……”sandwich please!”. There wasn’t even a cardboard box with any little delicacies to accompany it. And of course, no beer. Another tea for me.
Well, the sandwich wouldn’t win any prizes (at least not from an Englishman), but it’s acceptable.
Safety card
One thing that is very good on this flight is the magazine (actually that of parent company HNA Group/HU)
Before the flight I was trying to count the airlines under the HNA banner….I counted 6. Apparently there are 13! Why on earth would you need 13 airlines? Ridiculous!
Maps
Interesting articles IN ENGLISH! Not a common occurrence in Chinese in flight magazines.
Cabin in cruise mode
View
I’m so glad I brought these along with me
30 minutes before arrival, there is a truncated drinks service, so I get another cup of tasteless tea
Working on my report
Beginning our descent
The crew thanking us for flying CN. They bow in unison
Welcome to Nanning. Another surprise…we’re early! And by a whole 24 minutes. Finally, I’ve broken the chain of super delays! Over the past 4 flights, the cumulative delay has been 137 minutes, breaking down to a 24 minute delay per flight. The figures are worse if you look at departure delays.
Taxiing in
My bag coming off…easy does it.
And onto the tarmac. The first bus is full so I had to wait for the second.
The drive over the tarmac is fairly unspectacular, but I did spot an MU CRJ preparing for a flight to somewhere in South East Asia, and a Jetstar arriving from Singapore.
Thanks to the early arrival, I’m in a bus heading for the city (and nearly at my hotel) by the time the ETA comes around. Thank you Grand China Air!
So, my conclusions? As far as aviation goes, things aren’t exactly wonderful. Standards have fallen, and fares have risen. Delays (often long ones) seem to be a standard feature nowadays. Crews generally seem grumpy (and probably overworked), and catering is lacklustre. On the plus side, new planes are making their way into fleets, and glittering new terminals continue to open across the land.
China itself is changing as well. The amazing sights of this continent-sized country continue to draw the crowds…get here before they get even busier! (and the RMB gets too strong!).
Future reports include:
CX HKG-TPE B744 F
TZ TPE-SIN B772 Y
MH KUL-DAC A330 Y
AI CCU-DEL B788 Y
AI IXM-MAA-BLR A32S Y
SV BLR-DMM-JED-LHR A330/B773 Y
sultanils From Belgium, joined Mar 2010, 1215 posts, RR: 29 Reply 5, posted (8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 8547 times:
Hi Gabs,
Nice and interesting stuff containing tons of exotic airplanes and airlines, for me at least! China seems to be your 2nd home, you know the place so well.
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): The crew are all in MU uniforms, but announcements are all as per KN
With your perfect and fluent Mandarin(?) language skills, you were for sure able to understand all announcements?
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): but’s it’s famed vistas have caught the attention of massive numbers of Chinese tour groups that have overrun the town.
lukeyboy95 From Papua New Guinea, joined Apr 2008, 953 posts, RR: 34 Reply 7, posted (8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 8227 times:
HI Gabriel,
Many thanks. Beautiful report with a great insight into this country. Is it your favorite country to fly around? You have explored alot of it.
Now, I might have to consult with you, as I am planning on spending a nice month in China (destination Kazakhstan) in about March. Rather excited really... Only a shame I can only get a months visa.
Clearly the standard of Chinese internals seems to be dropping? Delays, shoddy catering, rude personnel and still a clear language gap....
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): Sadly, despite being scheduled at over 3 hours around lunchtime, the ubiquitous choice of “rice of noodles” had been substituted for “sandwich or nothing”……”sandwich please!”. There wasn’t even a cardboard box with any little delicacies to accompany it. And of course, no beer. Another tea for me.
Well disappointed in Hainan! Thought they would have put something in there to differentiate their service. Though, other than catering, the rest looked really good.
Amazed at those huge new airports and impressed by how well designed they are.
Taking a back-seat on TR's whilst travelling, so don't be disappointed by sparse replies.
What a catch. Something you probably wouldn't find at PEK or PVG. That's what makes Nanyuan Airport so interesting. Seems like you didn't have any problems with photography either?
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): So, pretty nice, huh? the place is pretty remote, so we ended up taking a 10 hour bus to get there and back. A flight would have only taken 30 mins, but the cost was really quite outrageous. Having done the return trip, I think I’d plump for the plane in future, as the ride was scary.
Wow, really nice photos! In fact, it was quite refreshing to see all your non aviation photos, but I really loved your pictures from the Sichuan and Yunnan provinces.
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): One in particular caught my attention, MU 5721 as it had a stop in JIQ. Never heard of JIQ have you? I actually had to email GC Mapper to get them to add it to the database as it’s pretty new and gets very little traffic. It’s not far from Chongqing, and uses Wulingshan, Qianjiang and Zhoubai as it’s name (depending on where you’re looking, none of which seem to have a relative to the letters JIQ!). Of course, I wanted to get a free stopover here, so presented the arrivals times only to my friend, whilst kindly suggesting this flight…she said ok. Wonderful.
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): I had to feign horror to my friend when we “discovered” it was a stopper in the middle of nowhere.
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted (8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 8198 times:
Quoting lukeyboy95 (Reply 7):
Many thanks. Beautiful report with a great insight into this country
Thanks Luke! Glad you liked it!
Quoting lukeyboy95 (Reply 7): Is it your favorite country to fly around? You have explored alot of it.
Um, it's one of the better ones (mostly through being so photo friendly, and having such a diverse network. I also highly rate Colombia and New Zeland
Quoting lukeyboy95 (Reply 7): Now, I might have to consult with you, as I am planning on spending a nice month in China (destination Kazakhstan) in about March. Rather excited really... Only a shame I can only get a months visa.
Oh yes, do get in touch, I'll do you an itinerary!
Quoting lukeyboy95 (Reply 7): Clearly the standard of Chinese internals seems to be dropping? Delays, shoddy catering, rude personnel and still a clear language gap....
I think they're just suffering growing pains...expanding too quickly and all
Quoting lukeyboy95 (Reply 7): Well disappointed in Hainan! Thought they would have put something in there to differentiate their service. Though, other than catering, the rest looked really good.
Well, I wasn;t on Hainan, I was on Grand China! IIRC, HU is the "full service" brand, and I guess CN and all the others are slightly lesser (although God knows where they all come in the pecking order).
Quoting lukeyboy95 (Reply 7): Taking a back-seat on TR's whilst travelling, so don't be disappointed by sparse replies.
Ah, you can travel and TR simultaneously! (are you travelling with a laptop?) Either way, you can still comment!
roberts87 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2011, 675 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 8030 times:
Hello Gabriel,
Another great report as always! I really like reading about your trips to those off the beaten path places. And the scenery in the CTU area looks absolutely astonishing!
Looking forward to the next part as usual, safe travels!
Quoting roberts87 (Reply 10): I really like reading about your trips to those off the beaten path places. And the scenery in the CTU area looks absolutely astonishing!
Yes, the scenery in China is quite something. As you'd expect of a country that size, it's pretty varied as well
Quoting roberts87 (Reply 10): Looking forward to the next part as usual, safe travels!
Thanks
Quoting OA260 (Reply 11): Fantastic report and amazing photos of China. Makes me want to go back . Was there over 10 years ago .
Thanks Phil. A lot has changed in the past 10 years, you'll hardly recognise the place.
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 14, posted (8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6828 times:
Quoting justinlee (Reply 13): It's a Hajj Flight. Yunnan Province actually has a large Muslim population.
Yes, I know it was a Hadj. I Hadn't realised how many Muslims were in Yunnan though. Nice to have this sort of route, gives the departure board a more exotic twist!
justinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 314 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6641 times:
Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 14): Yes, I know it was a Hadj. I Hadn't realised how many Muslims were in Yunnan though. Nice to have this sort of route, gives the departure board a more exotic twist!
According to the China Census 2000, there is 643,238 Hui people (or Muslim Chinese) in Yunnan Province and 168,734 in the nearby Guizhou Province and 109,960 in Sichuan. They are basically the descendants of Genghis Khan's Arabian or Persian Allied Army during their invasion of Yunnan. 1 million Muslim population can really support some Hajj flights!
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6441 times:
Quoting justinlee (Reply 15): According to the China Census 2000, there is 643,238 Hui people (or Muslim Chinese) in Yunnan Province and 168,734 in the nearby Guizhou Province and 109,960 in Sichuan. They are basically the descendants of Genghis Khan's Arabian or Persian Allied Army during their invasion of Yunnan. 1 million Muslim population can really support some Hajj flights!
Interesting stats there! Shame there aren't any scheduled flights! SV don't fly to China at all I don't think - maybe it's time for them to start?
justinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 314 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6293 times:
Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 16): Interesting stats there! Shame there aren't any scheduled flights! SV don't fly to China at all I don't think - maybe it's time for them to start?
I think they are pretty low-yield and MU has a KMG-DXB already. I really doubt whether SV can make money in Saudi-China routes because Gulf Carriers are dumping too much capacity!
abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4919 posts, RR: 55 Reply 18, posted (8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6149 times:
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): So, my conclusions? As far as aviation goes, things aren’t exactly wonderful. Standards have fallen, and fares have risen. Delays (often long ones) seem to be a standard feature nowadays. Crews generally seem grumpy (and probably overworked), and catering is lacklustre. On the plus side, new planes are making their way into fleets, and glittering new terminals continue to open across the land.
= Oh no. That's bad to hear. I just got back from China and felt the same way.
Thanks a lot for the reports. You're becoming quite the resident A.Net expert on internal Chinese flights. Are you treated differently being an ethnic Chinese?
It makes me sad looking at the airport - they all look so generic and Hongkong-like. I guess I rather have a balance of local color than these cookie cutter stuff.
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6105 times:
Quoting justinlee (Reply 17): I think they are pretty low-yield and MU has a KMG-DXB already. I really doubt whether SV can make money in Saudi-China routes because Gulf Carriers are dumping too much capacity!
Does SV operate to make a profit? Their faresa are dirt cheap oiut of India (I booked BLR-LHR for less than $200 o/w.)
Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 18): = Oh no. That's bad to hear. I just got back from China and felt the same way.
At least you can still be liberal with the photography in China!
Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 18): Thanks a lot for the reports. You're becoming quite the resident A.Net expert on internal Chinese flights.
Glad you like them. Any questions about domestic Chinese flights, I'm your man!
Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 18): Are you treated differently being an ethnic Chinese?
Actually, i'm not ethnically Chinese, although some might think so (I'm a fabulous mix people can only begin to guess at!). I have a policy of speaking English in Chinese airports (and 5* hotels)...generally helps, although it didn't help me get a beer this time!
Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 18): It makes me sad looking at the airport - they all look so generic and Hongkong-like. I guess I rather have a balance of local color than these cookie cutter stuff.
Well, the new ones are a hell of a lot better than the old 70/80s ones.
PlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6219 posts, RR: 79 Reply 20, posted (8 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5970 times:
Hi Gabriel,
really interesting report with good destination pictures. Nice to see you flew on China Eastern Yunnan and Grand China Air. I've been trying to find out for a while if China Eastern Yunnan has an own AOC or not - any idea?
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): Sadly, all Chinese airlines have now stopped serving watery Chinese beer on domestics, so I go with a glass of lukewarm tea.
Do you also mean Tsingtao? I found that quite good, similar to certain German beers.
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): Today, the policy of “just three big airlines” has clearly been thrown out of the window.
That was a rather new 737-300, built in 1997. There are hardly any old planes in China (20 years or older).
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): Before the flight I was trying to count the airlines under the HNA banner….I counted 6. Apparently there are 13! Why on earth would you need 13 airlines? Ridiculous!
Variety is good for spotters and travellers!
Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 6): I stopped checking stuff like that a while ago.
MSS658 From Belgium, joined Oct 2010, 2256 posts, RR: 14 Reply 21, posted (8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5878 times:
Hello Gabriel
Great and interesting report thanks for sharing.
As far as aviation goes China looks quite mediocre, not USA-style but not one of the best neither. The MU 737's really look old-school. Landside facilities look good however!
China itself looks very nice, really amazed about the crystal blue water and waterfalls.
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 22, posted (8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5782 times:
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 20):
really interesting report with good destination pictures
Thanks Udo!
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 20): Nice to see you flew on China Eastern Yunnan and Grand China Air. I've been trying to find out for a while if China Eastern Yunnan has an own AOC or not - any idea?
No idea...how would one check?
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 20): Do you also mean Tsingtao? I found that quite good, similar to certain German beers.
Well, Tsingdao is ok (it was established by the Germans!), but it's still terribly weak/watery compared to European and South East Asian beers.
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 20): That was a rather new 737-300, built in 1997. There are hardly any old planes in China (20 years or older).
Yes, the Chinese have been good at updating their fleets
Well, I did a quick check with that. My sister's a Dr, so got my malaria drugs for me. Having said that, I'd rather wear DEET than use anti-malarials again
Quoting MSS658 (Reply 21): Great and interesting report thanks for sharing.
Thanks Marc
Quoting MSS658 (Reply 21):
As far as aviation goes China looks quite mediocre, not USA-style but not one of the best neither
Yes, not great, not awful
Quoting MSS658 (Reply 21): The MU 737's really look old-school.
They do have some brand new planes too! I think I got one of the oldest, and one of the newest
Quoting MSS658 (Reply 21): China itself looks very nice, really amazed about the crystal blue water and waterfalls.
Well, not all of China is like that, but it does have a few gems!
palmjet From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1053 posts, RR: 16 Reply 23, posted (8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5693 times:
Hi Gabe
Fantastic report - a perfect start to my Sunday!
I really enjoyed all of the destination pics, as usual. Some amazing scenes. Thanks for posting these too in addition to the flights.
I did not know that China Eastern's Yunan division aircraft carried titles on the outside of the aircraft - I noted the "Yunan Gongsi" characters at the back of your 733.
Seems like heavy delays on domestic flights in China have become the norm. With the sheer volume of planes now plying the skies above China, I wonder how things are going to be in the next 10 years or so.
I really need to do a repeat trip to China. I will be sure to ask you for some tips as you seem to have all the background knowledge on how to make travel in China as seamless as possible!
I39OO From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2012, 43 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5658 times:
Gabriel,
it was a most compelling read. My ignorance towards China is, I'm not afraid to say, boundless, but reading this TR has given me a taste of how a small, albeit nice, corner of this huge country might look like. Yunnan province looks like an interesting place to visit! Many thanks as well for the small hints at the Chinese cultural heritage (such as the various festivals or recent Chinese history).
Quoting lychemsa (Reply 4): So, my conclusions? As far as aviation goes, things aren’t exactly wonderful. Standards have fallen, and fares have risen. Delays (often long ones) seem to be a standard feature nowadays. Crews generally seem grumpy (and probably overworked), and catering is lacklustre. On the plus side, new planes are making their way into fleets, and glittering new terminals continue to open across the land.
That's sad to hear. Airports generally look awesome and are a useful way to gauge this country's limitless capabilities, but it's bad to see that the habit of cutting corners as far as service goes is catching up in China as well. I wonder what the root cause of the delays was, can it be that the Chinese ATC system is struggling to cope with the surge in air traffic demand?
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 25, posted (8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5583 times:
Thanks for the comments!
Quoting palmjet (Reply 23): Fantastic report - a perfect start to my Sunday!
Thanks!
Quoting palmjet (Reply 23): I really enjoyed all of the destination pics, as usual. Some amazing scenes. Thanks for posting these too in addition to the flights.
No problem, glad you liked them
Quoting palmjet (Reply 23): I did not know that China Eastern's Yunan division aircraft carried titles on the outside of the aircraft - I noted the "Yunan Gongsi" characters at the back of your 733.
Ha, I didn't realise they did until you just pointed it out!
Quoting palmjet (Reply 23): Seems like heavy delays on domestic flights in China have become the norm. With the sheer volume of planes now plying the skies above China, I wonder how things are going to be in the next 10 years or so.
Hopefully they'll start flying larger aircraft less often, but who knows how they're going to handle everything.
Quoting palmjet (Reply 23): I really need to do a repeat trip to China. I will be sure to ask you for some tips as you seem to have all the background knowledge on how to make travel in China as seamless as possible!
Yes, I am the font of all China knowledge (well, I like to think so!). Ask away!
Quoting I39OO (Reply 24):
it was a most compelling read
Thanks!
Quoting I39OO (Reply 24): My ignorance towards China is, I'm not afraid to say, boundless, but reading this TR has given me a taste of how a small, albeit nice, corner of this huge country might look like. Yunnan province looks like an interesting place to visit! Many thanks as well for the small hints at the Chinese cultural heritage (such as the various festivals or recent Chinese history).
Well, I'm glad I can spread the good word about China!
Quoting I39OO (Reply 24): That's sad to hear. Airports generally look awesome and are a useful way to gauge this country's limitless capabilities, but it's bad to see that the habit of cutting corners as far as service goes is catching up in China as well. I wonder what the root cause of the delays was, can it be that the Chinese ATC system is struggling to cope with the surge in air traffic demand?
The military controls the ATC, so perhaps the PLA are ramping up for some international action?!
jwhite9185 From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 748 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (8 months 6 hours ago) and read 5361 times:
Great report as usual Gabriel, very interesting. Glad I finally got round to reading it finally!
China looks very interesting. In my mind, it was always Beijing, Shanghai and not much else - well you've proven me wrong there.
Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 1): Finally, I’ve broken the chain of super delays! Over the past 4 flights, the cumulative delay has been 137 minutes
I've got you beaten there - 415 minutes in 7 flights (all in a week), so roughly an hour per flight give or take. Still waiting to break my chain... Guess that sums up your conclusion that there's more delays these days.
AlwaysOnAPlane From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2010, 299 posts, RR: 2 Reply 29, posted (8 months 5 hours ago) and read 5336 times:
Hey Gabe.
Man, you are really getting my appetite aroused for travel. The pictures you are sharing are just amazing. Those crystal clear lake waters like nothing I have ever seen before.
That landslide and the truck wrecks must have had your heart rate climbing fast.
Sure, the service on these flights looks very basic but it's all for the experience.
The booming aviation scene in China looks like it's own worst enemy with these constant delays.
Can't wait for more in this tour Gabe.
Happy travels.
Lee.
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 30, posted (7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5146 times:
Thanks for all your comments!
Quoting je89_w (Reply 8): A gem of a trip report! Thank you for posting.
Thanks, glad you liked it (and sorry for not seeing your comments a week or so ago!)
Quoting je89_w (Reply 8): Seems like you didn't have any problems with photography either?
No, was ok in NAY, although there were lots of signs saying no photos, something you don't normally see in China
Quoting je89_w (Reply 8): Wow, really nice photos! In fact, it was quite refreshing to see all your non aviation photos, but I really loved your pictures from the Sichuan and Yunnan provinces.
Thanks
Quoting je89_w (Reply 8): A safety card I'm sure many would love to have.
Ha, shame I've stopped collecting!
Quoting eastafspot (Reply 26): Very interesting TR, from places that look amazing, and really traditional. i like your pictures of Jiuzhaigou a lot.
Thanks
Quoting eastafspot (Reply 26): Thanks god for a relatively major airline. after all those Asian trips, how good is your Chinese level?
Not too bad!
Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 27): China looks very interesting. In my mind, it was always Beijing, Shanghai and not much else - well you've proven me wrong there.
Well, China covers the same space as Europe, so there's plenty more than B and S!
Quoting The777Man (Reply 28): Thanks for another great installment in this Asia series!
Thanks!
Quoting The777Man (Reply 28): I also noticed the delays on a lot of flights on the departure boards. I had a great time and may go back soon since I have a multi entry visa.
There are plenty of interesting flights out there. Was it easy to get the multi-entry visa?
Quoting AlwaysOnAPlane (Reply 29):
Man, you are really getting my appetite aroused for travel.
Get travelling Lee!
Quoting AlwaysOnAPlane (Reply 29): The pictures you are sharing are just amazing. Those crystal clear lake waters like nothing I have ever seen before.
Thanks. There's so much amazing stuff to see out there
Quoting AlwaysOnAPlane (Reply 29): That landslide and the truck wrecks must have had your heart rate climbing fast.
At one stage we drove into a dark tunnel with smoke and water coming out of it....I nearly got off the bus (and my friend (and a lot of other pax)) were nearly in hysterics....not fun!
Quoting AlwaysOnAPlane (Reply 29):
Sure, the service on these flights looks very basic but it's all for the experience.
The booming aviation scene in China looks like it's own worst enemy with these constant delays.
The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6115 posts, RR: 56 Reply 31, posted (7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5114 times:
taloush From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2001, 154 posts, RR: 0 Reply 32, posted (7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4993 times:
Really great report, as is to be expected from you!
To be honest, China (with the exception of Hong Kong) is one of the very, VERY few places in the world for which I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to visit. Going through your pictures was a rollercoaster ride of "Oh-that-looks-nice-maybe-I-should-go" highs and "Yeah-I'm-never-setting-foot-in-that-country" lows; it was quite funny, actually!
CaptainRed From Germany, joined Oct 2010, 588 posts, RR: 19 Reply 33, posted (7 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4889 times:
Hi Gabriel,
again a wonderful report here, nice to read about all these exotic (at least for me, hey, I didn't even know that a place with the name Shangri-La does really exist) places and about these Chinese airlines.
Absolutely stunning destination pics here. Really makes me want to visit China as well some day, even though road travel seems to be quite adventurous.
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 34, posted (7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4749 times:
Quoting The777Man (Reply 31): I got it without asking.....same cost for US passport holders for single or multiple entry so I guess they usually issue multiple entry.
Ah, that makes sense then. It's really hard to get a tourist multi entry for most countries without a letter of invitation.
Quoting taloush (Reply 32): Really great report, as is to be expected from you!
Quoting taloush (Reply 32): To be honest, China (with the exception of Hong Kong) is one of the very, VERY few places in the world for which I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to visit. Going through your pictures was a rollercoaster ride of "Oh-that-looks-nice-maybe-I-should-go" highs and "Yeah-I'm-never-setting-foot-in-that-country" lows; it was quite funny, actually!
Quoting CaptainRed (Reply 33): Absolutely stunning destination pics here. Really makes me want to visit China as well some day, even though road travel seems to be quite adventurous.
Well, there are plenty of agents that can book you a "see the sights, not the country" type tour...5* all the way!
Widebodyroga From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 495 posts, RR: 4 Reply 35, posted (7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4575 times:
Hey Gabriel.
I'm being very slow at reading TRs lately so it took me a while to get down to read your chinese series. I must say that China has never been high on my list of desired destinations (I do acknowledge its natural and cultural beauty but I always find other destinations that are more interesting by my standards) but your photos have made me reconsider. Stunning landscaped indeed.
airbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 51 Reply 36, posted (7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4528 times:
Finally time to read! Great stuff Gab. Makes me want to go to inside China. Lovely pictures in the mountains. Great nature it seems, clear waters, beautiful colours.
I must say that the Chinese airlines offer a nice enough product for us, westerners. A meal, or snack, more then we're used to. Can't judge about the taste though.
Regards
Eric
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 37, posted (7 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4377 times:
Thanks for the comments guys!
Quoting Widebodyroga (Reply 35):
I'm being very slow at reading TRs lately so it took me a while to get down to read your chinese series
I hope you've enjoyed them!
Quoting Widebodyroga (Reply 35): I must say that China has never been high on my list of desired destinations (I do acknowledge its natural and cultural beauty but I always find other destinations that are more interesting by my standards) but your photos have made me reconsider. Stunning landscaped indeed.
I seem to be inspiring a lot of comments like that!
Quoting Widebodyroga (Reply 35): This has to be one of the most bizarre patterns ever. At least visually
Quoting airbuseric (Reply 36): Makes me want to go to inside China. Lovely pictures in the mountains. Great nature it seems, clear waters, beautiful colours.
Go go go! It's a great country!
Quoting airbuseric (Reply 36): I must say that the Chinese airlines offer a nice enough product for us, westerners. A meal, or snack, more then we're used to. Can't judge about the taste though.
adamspotter From Netherlands, joined Feb 2011, 818 posts, RR: 2 Reply 38, posted (7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4243 times:
Hi Gabriel,
Great addition to your series here with lots of nice aviation and non-aviation pictures, really enjoyed it.
Its amazing how many different chinese carriers you have and its great to get an insight on some of them.
Flying in China seems to be quite a mixed bag: Lots of delays, not very tastefull looking catering and old planes. The brand new airports sure look outstanding though and always nice to get a sky interior, such a difference to the other flights!
deltamartin From Sweden, joined Dec 2010, 1059 posts, RR: 9 Reply 40, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3968 times:
Hello Gabriel!
I finally got around reading this part of your TR, and what a read it was! Some very nice pictures from China, some really stunning scenery. I really should go visit the mainland some day too!
Aviation wise it was quite exciting as well, too bad about the numerous hefty delays, and a shame to hear that service has gone in the opposite direction than the direction of the fares.
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): First stop on our itinerary was Jiuzhaigou (geo-jai-go, 九寨沟), somewhere I’ve been wanting to visit for years. To sum it up: stunning, expensive, busy. Worth going to? Definitely. There are some great walks you can do through the valley, and if you try hard, you can escape the crowds (who like to stay on their tour buses). Some photos:
Great looking scenery! Sure seems well worth a visit.
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): What a nice surprise….our plane is young and fitted with the new Boeing interior
That was somehow very unexpected. But then again why? The Chinese airlines has a lot of new aircraft with more coming.
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): The gorgeous new exterior…even my friend agreed with me for once that the airport was nice
Great scenery there as well! I can see why even non-a.netters took photos there!
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): Why fly HK Airlines from LGW when there are already 4 established airlines on the London - Hong Kong (BA/VS/NZ/CX) all with excellent business classes?
Agreed. Would have been nice if they had offered a proper economy product to a competitive price as well. As I mentioned to you, the hardware on my HKG-TPE flight was good enough for sure. Not sure if they would have been able to make the route work even in such a scenario though.
I'll get around reading part 4 one day as well, but I got a huge backlog of TR's to read right now!
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 41, posted (7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3929 times:
Quoting deltamartin (Reply 40):
I finally got around reading this part of your TR, and what a read it was!
Thanks Martin!
Quoting deltamartin (Reply 40): Some very nice pictures from China, some really stunning scenery. I really should go visit the mainland some day too!
Thanks. You should check it out sometime
Quoting deltamartin (Reply 40): Great looking scenery! Sure seems well worth a visit.
Definately. One of the most beautiful places I've even visited
Quoting deltamartin (Reply 40): That does look like one very impressive airport.
It was. Very pretty
Quoting deltamartin (Reply 40): Agreed. Would have been nice if they had offered a proper economy product to a competitive price as well. As I mentioned to you, the hardware on my HKG-TPE flight was good enough for sure. Not sure if they would have been able to make the route work even in such a scenario though.
N178UA From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1626 posts, RR: 68 Reply 42, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3194 times:
Hi Gabe
I read your TR with great interest, because they are quite different to the other ones on the forum, you certainly travelled to many places off the beaten track! Kudos to your spirit of travel and bring us the culture closer!
I am really impressed to your photo of Jiuzhaigou and would like to know about the place. Did you take a bus or board a flight from Chengdu? I believe the place is accessible year round now. How many nights did you stay there?
Quoting gabrielchew (Thread starter): First stop on our itinerary was Jiuzhaigou (geo-jai-go, 九寨沟), somewhere I’ve been wanting to visit for years. To sum it up: stunning, expensive, busy. Worth going to? Definitely.
If I have only very limited time on hand, compare with Dali, Zhongdian, Lijiang, do you think Jiuzhaigou is the best to visit?
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 43, posted (6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2920 times:
Quoting N178UA (Reply 42): I read your TR with great interest, because they are quite different to the other ones on the forum, you certainly travelled to many places off the beaten track! Kudos to your spirit of travel and bring us the culture closer!
Thanks Sam, kind words!
Quoting N178UA (Reply 42): I am really impressed to your photo of Jiuzhaigou and would like to know about the place. Did you take a bus or board a flight from Chengdu? I believe the place is accessible year round now. How many nights did you stay there?
We bussed both way (10 scary hours), but there are also plenty of flights to choose from (30 mins) from Chengdu, Chongqing and Beijing (and probably a few others as well). The park is open year round (and much chaper in Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb, but pretty cold). I guess in the winter, it's better to fly as the roads are probably awful. We stayed for 3 nights, so had 2 full days in the park, which I think worked out well.
Quoting N178UA (Reply 42): If I have only very limited time on hand, compare with Dali, Zhongdian, Lijiang, do you think Jiuzhaigou is the best to visit?
I thought Jiuzhaigou was the best, as the scenery was just stunning. I don't like Lijiang and Dali anymore, as I know how nice they used to be (before all the tour groups arrived). Still, my friend, who hadn't been before, loved them both. Zhongdian/ShangriLa old town is what Lijiang and Dali used to be like. PM me if you need more info!
Sponsor Message: 
From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 906 posts, 
From Belgium, joined Mar 2010, 1215 posts, 
Sultanils
From Papua New Guinea, joined Apr 2008, 953 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Dec 2011, 675 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25129 posts, 
From China, joined Aug 2012, 314 posts, 
From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4919 posts, 
From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6219 posts, 
From France, joined Jan 2008, 479 posts, 
From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2001, 154 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Dec 2010, 1059 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
