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TG SIN-BKK-CCU 773/333 It Was Worth It In The End! +Pics  
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10904 times:

Background

Finishing my work in Singapore, I wanted to head back to India. Since I wanted to mind DEL due to bad weather in the winter, I thought I will see my friend in Kolkata, so I started to search for o/w flights in that city. CCU is incredibly underserved. AI does not offer flights to CCU, except of a 2/7 flight from BOM. TG offered an attractive rate for SG$$ 400. I had the choice of spending one day in BKK. This was convenient since I thought I might visit some friends for the day, Moreover, ‘topping’ up my M&M account with LH would be possible. Hence, I decided to take the flight: SIN-BKK-CCU. Just to provide you with some basic data and introduce you in my layout for the report:

The section BKK-SIN will be done in more detail, in categories. I experienced some users to like such reports to be split a little. After every section, I will take a quantitative rating, whereby 1 is the minimum and 10 the max, followed by a final rating, more out of feeling rather than with a complex formula (as with the RR Big grin ). Some pics, lowRes due to space and d/l time, are added (not photoshopped, too lazy).
The CCU leg will be shortly summarized, since this leg should not cast any bad light on TG’s service. To say it in the words of my neighbor: Worst possible sector in the world. Horrible Pax, I did not even want to photograph, so that part will not be graded but only shortly summarized.

It was great that I could fly on the 773 and 333.. a small comparison, very subjective, will end the report.

Seats were prereserved in FRA, both times the second row eco.

SIN-BKK

A/c: 773 – flight was quite full

Check-in:

I had a ticket with a stopover in BKK, as indicated on the ticket – layover 23 hrs and 30 min. But the agent was unwilling to check my luggage to CCU and rather told me to recheck in BKK. I had to take care of my own arrangements. This annoyed me since TG in FRA (they have a city office with incredible friendly staff there, complements!) told me that a through check-in should not be a problem. Even the duty manager, who was coincidentally behind the agent, said in Singlish it was not possible. So what to do, they did not want to concede.. good fact: they were a little apologetic, so that they did not care about my 15 KGs excess luggage  Big thumbs up – overall, their attitude ranged from grumpy to ignorant, which disappointed me… And.. no security questions! Strange

Still, it was very annoying, that TG in SIN was not able to assist and not too friendly, so 2/10



Boarding

Unspectacular boarding, very efficient. Good job! 9/10

Service

For most of the readers, it won’t be a surprise if I summarize the service if an Southeast-Asian career simply with one word: excellent!!!. The FAs had something – may I say? – very Asian, i.e. extremely friendly… so polite, respectful and service oriented.. comparing this to the cr*p I encountered especially on LH, BD and AA, TG beats them by large (sorry for the harsh words, but the difference is overwhelming). Immediately, after seat-belt signs went off, drinks were served. Crew acted professionally throughout, with a permanent and not artificial smile.



Yes, as you can see, the FAs on this pic carries a x-mas cap (I hate these blinking things  Big thumbs up ) ! It was 24th December, hence there was a small celebration on board, and mini-gifts in form of delicious Belgium Chocolate were distributed



Here, you can see MrNiji’s lovely, smooth hand... Big grin

To sum up, FAs were very sweet and affectionate, extremely polite and always available. Remarkable was the amount of FAs on board, giving it a lot of effectiveness. Good job! More will be written in Catering and Special Events.


10/10 For me hard to top. SQ and TG in one league in this category.

Catering

Maybe, pictures can say more than my words:



Food was delicious. I selected the fish over the chicken… Yuuuummmmyyy! For a two hours flight, I was surprised about the amount. Maybe because I am used to short-haul from Europe and the States, where you at most get a sandwich, and if traveling a low-cost, something for a horrendous price. Good catering…

Selection of drinks was equally good



The FAs came more often with drinks during the flight, which impressed me. I remember that lady in the pic, pooring a vodka lemon on my request, at the same time answering the query of another pax. Then, she realized that the glass was already ¾ full with vodka, with no ice and lemon, and then asking me: “Too much for you, Sir?”. I replied that I liked the mixture she made  Big thumbs up – so she gave me a can with lemon along, so that I won’t be drunk…

Catering deserves a 9/10 (for 10/10. it would have had to be absolutely outstanding, but I am told from my times teaching in London to be a rather hard grader)… whatsoever, every point is deserved… and I won’t forget the great cognac!


Entertainment




Unspectacular, some shows, nothing I am interested.. I prefer sleeping or reading. Airshow was good, no PTVs, so a 5/10



Comfort/Aircraft

I particularly like the diagonal arrangements in this 773 for light, air etc.. I am not sure whether these pics displays my train of thought:



Here a closer one:



The 773 is a beautiful aircraft, though a little loud in my eyes, especiall y at take-off.. The insides were very clean, state-of-the-art. Nice colors Thai uses.. I like the feminine purple  SmileD ), along with the blue… as said, the overhead part is made very nice, seat pitch was OK. Here another pic of the cabin:



Overall, beautiful, modern aircraft, spacy, made the journey very comfortable

8/10 The little noise (based on personal evaluation) does not override this fantastic aircraft.


Baggage

Good handling. After receiving it, I asked the TG ground staff, presenting my ticket, why it was not checked through. They apologized but did not offer to store it / early check it in.. hmmmm

4/10 The latter annoys me…

Punctuality:

Punctual on the minute 8/10


Special Events

Christmas time! Crew was (almost) dressed as santa-clause, along with nice Thai Uniforms for the Female and boring grey suites for the males, which still suited somehow the colors of the aircraft. Then, the very special: Thai had some lottery going on, for three months, on all flights longer than 2 hrs. Everyone could enter the lucky draw and win an eco-return from the destination of residence to Bangkok. As MrNiji had been photographing like a papparazi, he was selected by the supervising FA to pull the lucky person



Of course, I did not pull my own ticket but the one of some Singapore resident... here is the lucky winner:



I liked this initiative.. TG apparently cares a lot about their customer satisfaction, keeping in mind the huge competition, not at last on sectors like BKK-SIN… many regular and LCC here… Good product differentation


Appraisal

And this all in about only two hours flight-time! Really great, applaud to TG… Before continuing to BKK-CCU, a small appraisal, with the final ;grade’, since the flight to CCU should not affect this outstanding flight:

I will definitely travel this airline again, as they really managed to distinguish their service from many airlines, says my experience… Everything, apart from some ground-handling and entertainment, in the top league… so they deserve in my eyes a 8/10 . Congrats!

b>= BKK-CCU

A totally different experience.. but to appease a little… out of the responsibility of TG! To know why, read the following lines:

Just to begin with, and not to have to pay excess luggage, I told the check-in that they were not able to do a through check-in.. They apologized and again took my 15 KGs excess luggage without mentioning.. a good way to distract the people from the weighing machine!

Then, going to the gate.. The crowd: Mostly Bengalis, coming from some part of the world, waiting at the grade, everyone from grandmother to babys… loud.. I just stop the use of attributes here… gosh!

Before boarding was started, all the people stood up and cramped towards the place boarding passes are inspected (about one hour before), in order to be the first, probably thinking that being the first will lead to arriving earlier in CCU… gate staff was, and I support them, ignorant to any attempts to ‘speed up the boarding of the individuals’… Every time there was an indication to begin boarding, people pushed and held their boarding passes in the faces of the agents as if they received something free of cost in exchange.. to show a comparison: imagine the Ticket-counter at Old Delhi Railway station, when people hand in their reservation forms… such an undisciplined crowd.. a Korean man, traveling to a conference on Physics, probably the only foreigner on the plane (completely booked out), asked me if there was something wrong.. I just told him that this was the ‘normal routine’…

Due to the undisciplined behavior, boarding took very long – TG in my eyes not responsible, they tried the best and were luckily rude to some PAX, who pressed, misbehaved.. As I waited, it was no surprise that when I entered the aircraft, baggage was lying all over, overhead bins full.. luckily, the chap next to me was very nice.. an Oriya coming back from PVG.. he said he had to take TG, since AI’s PVG flight does not connect to CCU.. but the first thing he told me, after seeing that I was his neighbor: worst sector.. and I agree.. the people misbehaved, the beautiful A333 was a dump within minutes, it smelled like sweaty feet and rotten fish within minutes, FAs were pi**ed from the 1st minute.. I will make some comments about the aircraft, before proceeding to some general comments (i.e. summarizing the upper categories), before ending

The aircraft was very nice.. the interiors of the 773 were more beautiful (remember the diagonal overhead things), but the journey much more smooth and quiet, says my feeling.. but we should summarize here, and probably everyone except of ConcordeBoy would agree: Both the 773 and 333 are outstanding aircraft! Congrats to A and B for making traveling more comfortable…!

What else happened.. MrNiji of course had to top the bad behavior of the pax. After bitching with my neighbor about the crowd of mid-20 Biharis in front of us, all of a sudden a turbulence came.. my water and beer glass moved dramatically.. so I undertook every rescue effort, could catch the water glass.. and in the same movement, my hand kicked the beer class like the cricket ball on the neighbor… what an embarrassment.. he was full of beer, me completely dry… and of course, I did everything not to laugh.. he admitted that I could not do anything, was very friendly, and took my apology without prejudice.. the FAs were not very helpful, since we were one out of X cases where sth had happened… well

Baggage handling: Horrible, but probably also here not related to TG.. people cramped at the conveyor belt, so no access.. my first piece arrived quite early, my last one had not appeared when the belt stopped.. Great! As I wanted to look for the agent to give my lost luggage details, I was not the only one.. the solution: the CCU airport authorities had started two other belts with our luggage, without telling anyone, one of them still declaring the luggage top be from the SQ flight.. Welcome to India, I waited for 2 hrs without need, and my suitcase inter had been put next to the belt…


Overall:

The BKK-CCU experience has nothing to do with TG, the pax were just horrible.. for me no reason to say that the 8/10 is not deserved.. TG is a great airline.. keeping in mind the price and outstanding experience, I look forward to traveling that airline again.. a great experience, with nice events on board, superb service and equipment – no need to outplay the 773 and 333, they deserve both to be called superb aircrafts.... I recommend other pax to keep the eyes open if TG serves the route you intend to take.. they are outstanding!

P.S.: I am too tired to edit, so I just upload without proof-reading, ok?




[Edited 2005-02-06 19:36:00]

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNamaskar From Switzerland, joined Dec 2004, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10554 times:

What a fantastic trip report! I think YOU put the smile of the faces of those FAs  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

For a relatively short hop from SIN to BKK, TG really went out of their way to make it a memorable experience for everyone on board. Who needs IFE?! I remember taking TG from MUC to BKK. The FAs were wearing traditional uniforms when we boarded, but somewhere midflight they changed into Western uniforms. That is as good as a dance scene in a Bollywood film.

Sorry to hear about the leg to CCU, but fortunately you have a positive attitude and did not allow that to overshadow the excellent experience you had on the first flight.



User currently offlineVictorTango From India, joined Jan 2005, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10472 times:

Subin,

Great trip report. Actually pretty hilarious (BKK-CCU). Indians really make their presence felt, no matter where they are  Smile. And you did your bit too by spilling the beer  Big grin I don't know how you managed to keep a straight face. Really pity those F/As on that flight.
I thought TG has PTVs fitted in all their aircraft. Didn't follow what you meant by diagonal arrangements. Nics pics though.

Olly


User currently offlineGamps From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 469 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 10388 times:

Mrniji,

Great report and photos. Interesting that Thai still offers so much on SIN - BKK sector when there are dozens of flights now by LCCs etc. Actually to think about it, since you did not get the luggage checked in all the way could you have saved some dollars if you had taken a LCC to BKK and then take Thai to CCU? (forget M&M). Just wondering.

Regarding BKK - CCU sector passenger behavior, I am very surprised though. Last 5-6 years has seen dramatic change in Indian passenger profile. For example SIN - MAA on SQ or IC used to be a zoo few years back. But now you just don't see that behavior any more except may be on Gulf sector, though there are some day smugglers making fool of themselves (I have heard some horror stories on SIN - DEL sector though by the neo-rich drunk, non-resident Punjabi dudes). So this is a real eye opener for me. Can you mention some more specific incidents other than boarding mess or oversize bags? But I can assure you passenger profile to South Indian destinations has undergone sea change - as long as they get their vegetarian meals they are happy and sit like puppies (except the crying babies - who seem to be more on India bound flights).

Anyway good report. But BKK-CCU is real surprise. Was it a turnaround flight for the crew? And were majority of FAs were male to control the "beasts"?

Cheers


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10372 times:

Thx for the comments, here my first 'Q&A' Round

For a relatively short hop from SIN to BKK, TG really went out of their way to make it a memorable experience for everyone on board

Yeah, it was great, an example for product-differentiation (i.e. "imperfect competition", as economists say) as opposed to price-driven "perfect competition" - it was a pleasure

Didn't follow what you meant by diagonal arrangements

I meant the lights and air-thingies over your head.. they were not horizontally, and of course not vertically, but sth inbetween.. how to explain??  Big grin

Actually to think about it, since you did not get the luggage checked in all the way could you have saved some dollars if you had taken a LCC to BKK and then take Thai to CCU? (forget M&M). Just wondering.


I thought about that, too, later.. initially, I wanted only to go to CCU, but since Thai offered a stopover of less than 24 hrs, I thought why not via BKK and see some friends - they were the cheapest on the SIN-CCU sector by far. I doubt whether a o/w BKK-CCU + the LCC would have been cheaper.. whetever, done is done  Big grin

Can you mention some more specific incidents other than boarding mess or oversize bags?

Gamps, it was horrible. The mentality of a group of people (not all pax) was like: 'we paid for thi flight, so give us everything we demand and let us do what we want'. There was a crowd of young, my aged people (20 or so).. and these arrogant people are aggressive in a group (but if they are alone, they are real mummy-kiddies, I know) - while serving dinner, they demanded more and more while receiveing the trays (although quantities were large), next row served, they would not let the F/As proceed, rather asked for more food, booze throughout, talked in a volume which makes you think they cannot properly hear, having diskmans with them, speakers along, turning volume loud, playing frisbee with the discs (they were not all seated together, so some of the CD's flew about 20 cm over my head, since I was in the middle), took of their shows, revealing their for at least 26 days worn, unwashed socks, having everything but a dedicate smell, making mockery of other, older people, pressing the cal button in an interval like a heartbeat demanding for more booze and cachews etc etc etc... it was horrendous.. no wonder thai suspended he lucky draw, though it was announced... I support them.. believe me, it was a horrible experience, and I hope it is not representative anymore for Indian/{Bengali/Bihari?} Pax

Was it a turnaround flight for the crew? And were majority of FAs were male to control the "beasts"?

I think so, since while we were at Immigration, flight was announced for dep to BKK.. Crew was mixed



I have heard some horror stories on SIN - DEL sector though by the neo-rich drunk, non-resident Punjabi dudes

I took more often AI 164 FRA-DEL, with a significant proportion of Punjabis, going to DEL, and must say that the last trips were quite pleasant, often even funny, since they were good-mooded etc.. tomorrow I will travel AI164 (flight is only 1/2 full though), let's see how my fellow NRI-Punjus (I am one, too Big grin ) do..  Big grin

Cheers


User currently offlineSR 103 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1740 posts, RR: 38
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10286 times:

Mrniji,

That was an excellent report. I have not flown Thai in years, but it looks like they have not changed all that much, great service with good food and decent seats.

I know exactly what you mean about Asian flight attendants vs. Western ones. MH, CX, TG, and SQ are all in my top five of best cabin crew around.

To think I actually thought the BOM/DEL crowds were bad, this just sounds awful. I have heard horror stories about flights to CCU and DAC, but this was really something to read. I guess we really don't know how good we have it on the other side.

SR 103


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2893 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10077 times:

Fantastic and Hilarious trip report Subin,

I am not surprised of TGs ambience being better then compared to that of LH.
Asian carriers do seem to be head and shoulders above western ones atleast in that department.

Subin not surprising of the type of people present in your aircraft BGK-CCU especially with TG offering a 3nights 4 days package for under INR 17,000
[350$].
So its not a surprise that you had Biharis and Bengalis flinging disks at you.


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9682 times:

SR 103, many thanks for the comments! I agree, Asian f/as are really a quality as such... it was fantastic.. TG displays prefessionalism and friendliness for me - so in my eyes in the top league with SQ, and 9W (haven#t flewn MH yet)

Karan, you are so right with what you are saying... a crew of young people, loud in the plane and very respectful at customs Big grin

In terms of Star Alliance, as Karan draws the comparison with LH, there seems to be a huge gap in service standards..: crappy UA, LH, OK BD, great SQ, TG... their alliance strategy seems to be totally for the great network they offer, and not the service etc... - I know, not the most elaborated statement, just a thought


User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1524 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9354 times:

Dear MrNiji

Sorry I took so long to read your report even though we had discussed it when we met. But first things first...

Excellent, descriptive and entertaining report. I particularly like the way you have explained that gauging TG by their BKK-CCU sector is no indicator of their world-wide service levels. TG is an absolutely top notch airline (even though they fall short in terms of IFE and seats are also quite shabby - a change soon when the new product is unveiled). I travel BKK- India (CCU in particular) often and possibly can thow some light on why the pax behave the way they do.

On the average BKK-CCU flight you have 3 types of passengers:
1. the business traveller (a rare and terribly outnumbered species). Usually Europeans / Japs and upmarket and more civilized Indians.
2. folks returning from USA / Far East including VFR, students and the grannies and babies that you mentioned. 90 percent of these are Bengalis.. folks who are generally decent, keep to themselves, and are usually busy comparing the civilizations that they have visited with their own. On an A330 however they together with category 1 are only about 30%.
3. And now we come to the scum of the Earth. Yes I categorize them as Scum along with drug addicts, child molesters, chicken rapists and Indian Custom officers. These are usually an assorted mix of Bengali ("parar dada" types on their monthly BKK visits), Biharis, Punjabis, Marwaris etc. whose main characteristic is that they all are or are connected to shopkeepers in Fancy Market, Vardaan and such other shopping complexes in CCU where you can pick up everything except Boeing and Airbus products.

Now these guys (the Bengalis and the Biharis) are employed on a commission to fly every week or so to BKK, pick up tons of retail stuff and bring it over for sale at the above markets. If you visit one of the loos in CCU airport after the arrival of one of these flights you'll find them stripping off trousers after trousers, shirt after shirt all worn one on top of the other, watches on both hands, pockets stuffed with stuff etc. The shop owners are mostly Punjabis and Marwaris and these guys too do their rounds often which explains the multi-cultural nature of this riff-raff.

Devoid of any class, crass, loud mouthed, generally abusive this group I term the "Boka Choda Brigade" (please check with a Bong what that means). Its a very select air passenger group which travels only on the BKK sector from CCU. This category also travels extensively to BKK from DEL as well.

A couple of Thai friends (working with TG) specifically mentioned that India - DEL and CCU are the worst sectors on their network and most crew consider it to be a punishment to be on the sector. In any case the F/As on this sector are considered to be bouncers rather than F/As and tend to be gruff even with normal pax.

So I fully agree with your view that TG cannot be judged by their services on India sectors. I am sure they will be pleasantly surprised to find MAA and BLR to be very comfortable sectors in comparison. BOM will be a mix.

How was your AI flight? Did you enjoy the 74D?

As I said excellent report.. keep writing.

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9324 times:

Excellent report Subin, I enjoyed reading and watching!

I agree with you, Asian F/A's are much friendlier than European F/A's, I made always great experience with the cabin crews while flying on Asian airlines, even with crews of low-fare airlines like Valuair or Orient-Thai.

Sorry to hear about the horrible BKK-CCU flight, I know that a flight can be horrible when some passengers misbehave.

Patrick


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9016 times:

Thanks, Pran and Patrick... Interesting what you write, Vimanav, this sheds some light on the issue

PAtrick, interesting you mention the crew of Asian low-cost...


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8861 times:

Quoting Vimanav (reply 8):
3. And now we come to the scum of the Earth. Yes I categorize them as Scum along with drug addicts, child molesters, chicken rapists and Indian Custom officers. These are usually an assorted mix of Bengali ("parar dada" types on their monthly BKK visits), Biharis, Punjabis, Marwaris etc. whose main characteristic is that they all are or are connected to shopkeepers in Fancy Market, Vardaan and such other shopping complexes in CCU where you can pick up everything except Boeing and Airbus products


To add to this are the extended Bong families (with a strictly defined pecking order of who can shout at whom) on vacation. For some reason, they're used to shouting loudly to communicate. I've had this experience once in the Andamans, with a large Bong family vacationing with us on a boat to/from Havelock island, and man, were they a royal pain in the b*tt. They just kept shouting (talking?) to each other all through the journey, which was otherwise very quite & peaceful. I'm guessing some of this crowd that flies on the CCU-BKK sector, along with the "courier" traffic.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7709 times:

Quoting Nimish (Reply 11):
To add to this are the extended Bong families (with a strictly defined pecking order of who can shout at whom) on vacation. For some reason, they're used to shouting loudly to communicate.

Very true.Experienced it a lot.  Smile
BTW Subin.Nice report with good Pics.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFuffla From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7594 times:

I know how you feel, I had almost exactly the same experience last September. Flying TG, SYD-BKK-CMB-BKK-SYD, the first and last flights were great. A usual Thai experience, great service, atmosphere and staff. However, between BKK and CMB, the flights were quite bad, the was not Thai or their staff but it was the passengers. We were the only foreigners on the flight, it was not full, but there were quite a few people there. Whenever it seemed that the aircraft was about to board, the passengers rushed up as if there was no tomorrow. Colombo airport is a joke, but there are worse cases. No offence to anyone, but I found that people of middle eastern origin (ie India, Sri Lanka) are very nice, but once they have an objective, they will do anything to get it done. Once again, this is a very big stereotype and I mean not to offend anyone. Thai are a great airline and deserve more credit for their service than they are given. I will always fly them as their whole attitude to their passengers is second to none.

User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6925 times:

Quoting Fuffla (Reply 13):
Thai are a great airline and deserve more credit for their service than they are given. I will always fly them as their whole attitude to their passengers is second to none.

I fully agree! I have been extensively flying the last two weeks a couple of times on a certain European Airline based in FRA and am realizing now how much I miss the mentality of Asian Airlines and their FAs - the pleasure of flying stands with the attitute of cabin crew! Amazing how TG kept cool despite the pax misbehavin'... and amazing how other airlines show how dull and boring they are though pax are OK..  Wink


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