TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 800 posts, RR: 18 Posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10776 times:
While I regularly use AF between CCS and CDG I had never made a trip report on this journey. But, due to a request by Luisde8cd, I have made the effort this time!
Saturday Sept 09th 2006
Taking into account the uncertainties of road travel in Venezuela I left Valencia at 09:20, after having checked on the AF website the status of the arriving flight: the arrival was planned at 14:24 for a scheduled time of 14:20. The Autopista Regional del Centro had a not too high traffic on this Saturday morning, but there were a lot of buses bringing Chavez supporters to a demonstration in Caracas in the afternoon.
They were the cause of the only problem encountered between Valencia and Caracas: at one point a lot of these buses had decided to stop for some time, and, as the parking space was not sufficient, they had incremented it using the emergency lane and the slow traffic lane of the highway. Only the left lane was available for traffic, so a queue of around 15 minutes to pass this spot.
We then used the "carretera vieja" to go down to Maiquetia, as I have found this route far more reliable than the trocha on the highway, which can be blocked for unpredictable durations at unpredictable times.
I arrived at the airport at 12:45.
I went to the Skyteam corner located at the right hand side of the international terminal, and there were already a lot of people already checking-in for the AF flight to Paris and the AZ flight to Milan. It was 12:50, so 3 hours 45 before the AF flight departure.
Fortunately, thanks to my Platinum AF card I was able to pass the entire queue, and was ushered in by the first agent, who checks the persons in the queue and leaves only ticketed passengers inside the check-in area.
I was directed to the passport check, which was done with two computers with passport reading machines. I have still to understand the exact purpose of this check, as it does not prevent a bothersome control at the exit of the jet way when arriving in CDG, as we will see later.
From there I was directed to the business check-in line, where there were 4 persons in front of me. But they were in one group, so I passed with the second agent available (there were 2 business counters), very quickly.
I noticed that, in addition of the traditional Eco and Business lines there was a new additional line for "e-services", which, according to a small board, was to be used for people having already checked in on the internet to drop off their luggage. There was no queue there so I guess it is a good idea to make the internet check-in when leaving CCS. For passengers without Elite status this does not avoid the first queue, but, at least, the second.
The check-in process was swift, my suitcase was checked-in with the priority tag duly added, my boarding pass emitted (I had pre-reserved 61L, upper deck, these seats can be pre-reserved by Elite passengers), and was given the invitation card to the lounge. The agent told me that all taxes were already included in the price of the ticket, and so, at 12:57, 7 minutes after arriving, I was all set, efficiently processed by the AF agents, courteous but not excessively friendly, just as I think airline agents should be. But I am biased, of course!
Then I went to eat something with my friends, and returned at 14:15 to enter the international area.
There were 2 safety check points staffed, with a queue of around 15 persons in each. The process was efficient, and so at 14:20 I had passed this first step. For immigration 9 counters were opened. The one I selected had 8 persons in front of me, and I reached the agent at 14:30. At 14:31 I was cleared. I went to gate 14, and the AF 744 was already there, as planned.
For the usual AF bashers you will note that the plane was not dirty! You are free to think it had just been repainted!
I did some spotting; the only unusual plane (for me) was this one:
For the rest all the European planes were there: LH, IB, TP; AZ.
I went to the lounge (AF uses the AA lounge, which was not overly crowded - this is not always the case) to have a drink.
At 15:30 I returned to the gate, as the boarding time mentioned on the boarding pass was 15:35.
Flight AF 461 CCS-CDG
747-400 F-GISE
Scheduled 16:35 – 07:55
Real 17:05 – 08:06
Near the gate was the usual AF information board, which I find a nice touch (and if you don't like the captain or the chief purser, it is still time to change your mind ).
Boarding started at 15:41, with families with children, and then Business class and Elite passengers were called at 15:45, so I joined the boarding.
There was a second safety check (hand carry luggage X-Ray and magnetic frame), plus the usual specific customs check just before the jet way, with manual palpation made by Guardia Nacional staff. I still don't understand the purpose of this last check, as there is no simultaneous control of hand carry luggage?
Newspapers were available at the entrance of the jet way, so I selected those I wanted. This is the normal procedure on AF.
I was greeted at the cabin door by the purser, and directed to the upper deck. At the top of the floor were two smiling FAs who wished me "Welcome on board".
The upper deck cabin:
The upper deck cabin is reserved to Elite passengers for advance seat selection, but is available to other passengers at check-in. The seat pitch is better than on the main deck (36" versus 32", this is noticeable). Additionally there are PTVs at all seats, while on the main deck this is the case for only 3 (the most recent) of the 16 AF 744.
I settled in my window seat, 61L, in the second row of the cabin. There was a PTV box under the seat in front, but not too bothering. In addition of the overhead luggage compartments (which are not very big, due to the fuselage curvature, passengers with large hand luggage have to store them near the stairs), windows seats benefit from compartments under the windows (but they are not wide, so if you travel in this cabin prefer two small hand carry to one big).
At 16:38 there was the announcement "Embarquement terminé – PNC débutez le comptage” (Boarding finished, FAs start passenger count). And at 16:44: "Counting finished". The upper deck cabin was 100% full, so I guess it was the same on the main deck.
Amenity kits were distributed at 16:45.
Meanwhile there were some movements of ground staff to and from the cockpit. At 17:02 the captain made an announcement indicating that we would start in some minutes, and that flying time to Paris would be 8h35, with good weather on arrival.
We pushed back at 17:05 after the traditional: "PNC aux portes. Armement des toboggans et vérifiez la porte opposée" (Cabin Crew take your stations at the doors. Activate emergency slides and check opposite door).
The cabin was sprayed with insecticide while we were taxing to the runway, with the safety demonstration shown on the main video screens.
We started to wait at the runway access at 17:13.
At 17:17 a TACA plane took-off, at 17:20 a LAN plane landed and we took off at 17:22.
At 17:35 menus were distributed and aperitif served.
For those interested the champagne offered was Jacquard Brut Mosaique. I stuck to tomato juice. The biscuits were sour cream and onion snacks crackers, quite tasty.
At 17:48 the captain told us we had reached our cruising altitude of 10 000 m, that landing was planned at 07:55, and wished us "Bon appétit".
Dinner was served from 18:13, by a smiling and efficient FA.
The menu:
Smoked salmon accompanied by a vegetable medley
Goulash with baked potatoes and sautéed zucchini
OR
Farfalle pasta, béchamel sauce, parmesan chesses, ham julienne and tomatoes with oregano
Cheese
Crème caramel
Coffee and tea.
Red Wine
Vin de Pays d'Oc Merlot La Baume 2005
White wine
Vin de Pays d'Oc Sauvignon La Baume 2005
In addition there was a small pot of tamarind cream.
Everything was quite tasty, as usual (on my last trips I had risotto which stayed on the menu for quite a while and was very good). The camembert was exactly as it should be, trust a Frenchman!
Coffee/tea were served at 18:45, then trays were collected and cabin lights were turned off at 19:17, which was 01:17 Paris time (there is a 6 hour difference between Venezuela and France during European summer time).
I tried to sleep, initially disturbed by some turbulences, and my neighbours permanent chatting until the middle of the night. Obviously some people are not used to the secret of cross time zone travel: "as soon as you are in the plane set your watch to the destination time and act accordingly".
At 06:40, the lights were turned on, and breakfast was served. We were still over the Atlantic.
This is a light breakfast, and the croissant is usually quite dry.
A piece of bread in addition would be appreciated, even if it would also be dry after a night of flight. For me this is one of the few weak points of AF Economy class catering: the fact that the bread is not heated, and therefore hard, especially for the second meal of a long-haul flight. Asian airlines are able to give hot bread in Economy, why not AF?
A video presenting the arrival in CDG was displayed, and at 07:25 the captain announced the beginning of the descent, with landing planned at 07:55.
We made the approach facing east, and as I was on the right had side of the aircraft had some good views of Paris.
The Eiffel Tower is roughly in the middle of the picture, on the left of the woods (le Bois de Boulogne).
We landed in fact at 07:55 and taxied to Terminal 2F, where we arrived at 08:06.
Disembarking was by jetway, as this is usually the case with this flight when it is made with a 744. As I was in the front part of the Upper Deck disembarking took some time, and so I arrived in the jet way at 08:17 only, to find the usual queue which is due to a first passport control at the exit of the jet way.
From what I know, this control, which comes in addition of the normal passport control exiting the international area, is supposed to detect illegal immigrants. Checking there enables to be sure of the flight they are arriving on. Otherwise they destroy their papers before reaching the "normal" immigration counters and as it is not possible to be sure of their nationality (of course they will not tell), they can not be sent back easily. However it is difficult to understand why this is necessary, with the pre-check made in CCS. Maybe for passengers in transit from other South American countries?
But this is a nuisance for everybody.
Fortunately jet ways in 2F have glass panels, so you can pass the time looking around;
I finally reached the immigration and customs agents at 08:28, and was in line for normal immigration at 08:30, with 15 persons ahead of myself. There were 3 counters opened, but none for UE citizens. Nevertheless I passed in 4 minutes and was at 08:36 at the baggage carrousel where luggage from the flight had already arrived, but not the supposedly "Priority" ones.
But my suitcase arrived shortly after, at 08:42.
I went to the exit, to discover it was blocked, as there was a security threat outside.
The exit was reopened at 08:45, but it took some time to exit, as there was quite a quantity of persons waiting.
I was at the taxi stand at 08:53, and as there was no queue, my taxi started at 08:54 for a fast journey to Paris on this Sunday morning.
Sunday Sept 24th 2006
I left my home in the south of Paris at 08:00, and, with the light traffic on this Sunday morning, arrived at CDG Terminal 2F at 08:40.
I had done the e-checking, so I had a “boarding pass” printed on an A4 sheet, but I needed to drop my luggage.
First I went to the specialized e-checking counters, but the agent at the entrance of this area, seeing my Platinum Flying Blue card, sent me to the Elite check-in counters. This may be due to the fact that to be loaded in Priority containers baggages have to be taken at these counters (at least this is what I had been told some months ago, when I used the Eco counter, as the queue was shorter there).
At the entrance of the Elite counters, the agent seeing my A4 boarding pass sent me directly to the First Class check-in counters, as business counters had 2/3 persons in line.
My A4 boarding pass was promptly exchanged fro a “normal” boarding pass, and my luggage checked in. At 08:54 I was all set.
I stayed there some minutes, as I had received a phone call, and went to the immigration counters. Lines were not very long (20/30 persons), but as I had just subscribed for the PEGASE test (automatic immigration with fingerprint recognition), I used the special access, and passed the entire queue. The PEGASE system functioned perfectly and in less than one minute the door opened with a written message: ”Have a pleasant flight, Mr TGV”. This machine is definitely much more pleasant than French immigration officers! After immigration there was only on safety check point (which was in fact the cause of the queue before immigration, as people had to wait for the safety check, and as there is no space between immigration and safety check), and so I had to take my turn. Nevertheless I passed in less than 5 minutes, and went to the lounge which was half empty, which is quite unusual at this time of the day.
I took a second breakfast, as the one from home was already forgotten, made my selection of newspapers and returned to the boarding area, where I like to stay, enjoying the airport views.
Flight AF 460 CDG- CCS
747-400 F-GISD
Scheduled 10:35 – 14:20
Real 11:12 – 14:34
Boarding was planned to start at 09:50, and started in reality at 09:56.
There were 3 counters, with the left supposedly dedicated to Elite passengers. This was indicated on a board, but this board was not very noticeable so a whole group of tourists was in the Elite line. When the boarding started the agent for the Elite line gently, but firmly, explained them that Elite passengers would be processed first, and then normal passengers, as soon as she would be free.
This situation was well handled by the agent, but is due to the inadequate organisation of the area, due to the terminal design. While is it quite pleasant for staying some time, with good views of the airport activity (if not crowded), spaces are inadequate for boarding large planes, as queues block all traffic, especially for gates located at the side of the stairs or of the ramps going to the lower level.
Exiting the terminal there was one jetway, but it divided in two in the middle, with screens mentioning:
- rows 1 to 8 and 60 to 67 for the left one,
- rows 14 to 57 for the right one.
As I had 61L, I confidently went in direction of the left jetway, but an agent present there, after checking my boarding pass, told me to use the right one. We had a small discussion, but it appeared he was right: it was easier to take the right jetway, which was connected to door 2L, so just in front of the stairs leading to the upper deck. The screens were wrong. It is very seldom you pass through an airport without noticing at least one error in the information displayed by the various screens used!
I was greeted at the door and at the top of the stairs by the FAs.
At 10:35, scheduled departure time, the U/D cabin was 100% full, and the passengers counting initiated. At 10:38 the captain wished us welcome on-board, and told us we would start in 10 minutes, for a 8 hours and 55 minutes flight to CCS.
Amenity kits were promptly distributed. At 10:50 the captain announced another 10 minute delay, as one passenger was missing and his luggage had to be offloaded.
In reality this took more time and we pushed back at 11:12 only.
From 2F we taxied around the new S3 terminal in construction.
And had this interesting size comparison view:
We took off at 11:29, facing west, and so we did not have to pass over Paris to take our course to CCS.
Menus were distributed at 11:36, and aperitif served. The lunch service started at 12:17
The menu:
Bulghur wheat salad served with grilled vegetables
Beef with onions accompanied by mashed potatoes, carrots and sugar snaps peas
OR
Hake served with chive sauce, vegetable julienne and fettuccine pasta.
Cheese
Yogurt
Blackcurrant crumble with vanilla
Red Wine
Vin de Pays d'Oc Syrah 2004 Castel
White wine
Vin de Pays d'Oc Chardonnay Viognier 2005
Everything was quite eatable, except, as usual, the bread.
After the coffee/tea service I had a small nap, browsed through the video programs, and read.
I then went to drink something (non alcoholic drinks are in self service in various points of the cabin, including the aft part of the upper deck) and went downstairs to visit the whole main deck cabin: the eco cabin load factor was somewhere between 95 and 97 %.
Time passed quite quickly, and at 12:55 CCS time (18:55 Paris time) we were served the “chilled dinner”: (no choice here), cold chicken and rice with vegetable salad, fresh cheese and cherry cake. This time I skipped the wine.
Soon after the tray collection we started the descent (at 14:07), and landed at 14:28 facing west which was only my second experience of this in CCS (and the first with the AF flight).
We were at the gate at 14:34 (and note the usual Gate 14, but the westernmost gate of the international terminal, is it 28?), and I arrived at immigration at 14:44.
There were 9 counters open, with already around 15 persons at each counter (most from the AZ flight which had arrived before us). But all went smoothly and at 14:58 I finished there, greeted with a friendly “Bienvenido” by the immigration officer.
I went to buy some whisky at the duty free, and when I reached the luggage belt at 15:04, my suitcase was already waiting for me.
I was not selected for a screening by the customs, so at 15:10 I was already in the company car, starting the return journey to Valencia.
We opted for the “carretera vieja”, which appeared to be a good idea because, from what we saw, the queue for “la trocha” was staring on the viaduct that follows immediately the Bocqueron tunnels!
In summary a very pleasant trip with AF, the small delays (less than 15 minutes) staying in what can I consider acceptable for a 9/10 hour journey.
The upper deck cabin is a pleasant place to travel, and the seats, which have the horizontal part advancing when you recline the backrest, are far more comfortable than the seat used before.
All AF staff I encountered was friendly and efficient (OK I speak French, this is an advantage).
CDG was not too bad (it can be far worst!) but had its share of problems, a lot stemming from the choices made by the “genial” architect that built it (so genial that of the 7 terminal buildings - T1 and T2A to T2F, there are not 2 that have a similar internal organization: this architect is still trying to understand how should an user-friendly terminal be conceived). CCS was quite good, as usual since the new immigration facilities have been put in service.
Avoid AFKL 773 sardine cans with their 3-4-3 config in Y ! AF 772 are next
Erikgnoha From Venezuela, joined Jun 2006, 210 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10715 times:
Excellent trip report my friend, very nice and detailed. I am starting to get used to your trip reports because they are really impartial. Two thumps up!!
I did the same trip two years ago, but I did it on a A-340-300, with PTVs and nice legroom, and as you said we faced the same little delays. The CDG-CCS leg was delayed because one ground crew was inside the airplane during push back and they had to come backto the gate. It was really funny. And I also think that terminal in CDG is not very well designed because the lines are really annoying, in the middle of the path of other people. However the views are excellent. Glad you enjoyed your trip and I hope more trip reports will come!!
Summa767 From United Kingdom (England), joined Mar 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 7 Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10388 times:
Thank you!
Indeed a nicely detailed trip report. Encouraging too, as I have 2 transatlantic segments booked with AF for the Christmas vacation.
TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 800 posts, RR: 18 Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9808 times:
Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 4): Did I see correctly that there is some arm space on the window seats ?
You did.
In fact the existing storage bins that were in place at the time of the business cabin have not been modified. Due to the curvature of the fuselage it is not possible to put the seat nearer the wall, there is not enough headroom.
So in a window seat you have around 30 cm between the armrest of the seat and the wall. You have direct access to the storage bins, situated between the floor and the windows, opening upwards (they are not very wide, so only small, or better said, flat bags, can go inside: even my laptop bag could not enter).
And the superior part of the bins, when closed, gives window seat users and additional table of 30 cm in width, along the cabin wall. This is where the passenger in front of me had put his pillow and blanket on the picture of the breakfast (CCC-CDG), and water bottle and amenity kit on the picture of the lunch (CDG-CCS).
This additional space is very useful, and, connected to the increase in pitch, changes greatly the Eco travel experience.
Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 4):
From CDG where did you board, on a jetbridge or out in the country?
In CDG we boarded using a jetway! But I have seldom made a 744 boarding (whichever the destination) by bus.
Avoid AFKL 773 sardine cans with their 3-4-3 config in Y ! AF 772 are next
Goldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9772 times:
great report TGV
I had the same good experience as you last march on AF B744 upper deck to/from MRU. As I'm also FBlue platinum, I was able to book seats upstairs. The pitch of the seats, PTV and quietness of the cabin are excellent
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2461 posts, RR: 51 Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9619 times:
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): But, due to a request by Luisde8cd, I have made the effort this time!
Thanks for the report mate! It was excellent. We needed a trip report in a.net about the only 747 flight to CCS.
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): they had incremented it using the emergency lane and the slow traffic lane of the highway
Chavistas think they own the country and can do whatever they want... I hope we get rid of them on Dec 3rd. They don't have a single drop of respect to the law.
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): We then used the "carretera vieja" to go down to Maiquetia, as I have found this route far more reliable than the trocha on the highway, which can be blocked for unpredictable durations at unpredictable times.
But it is way more dangerous. Did you see military or police patrols/checkpoints along the way?
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): Near the gate was the usual AF information board, which I find a nice touch
Indeed.
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): There was a second safety check (hand carry luggage X-Ray and magnetic frame), plus the usual specific customs check just before the jet way, with manual palpation made by Guardia Nacional staff. I still don't understand the purpose of this last check, as there is no simultaneous control of hand carry luggage?
First time I hear of that procedure.
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): The seat pitch is better than on the main deck (36" versus 32", this is noticeable)
Great tip. Do you know if advance booking of these seats is allowed to Skyteam Elites?
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): However it is difficult to understand why this is necessary, with the pre-check made in CCS. Maybe for passengers in transit from other South American countries?
Maybe...
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): but as I had just subscribed for the PEGASE test (automatic immigration with fingerprint recognition), I used the special access, and passed the entire queue
Sounds like a great system. Hopefully it can't be exploited by terrorists.
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): I was not selected for a screening by the customs, so at 15:10 I was already in the company car, starting the return journey to Valencia.
TGV, why don't you fly from CCS to VLN?
Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1535 posts, RR: 28 Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9521 times:
TGV,
Cool report, very detailed and nicely written.
It seems that AF provides a pretty good service to CCS. My uncle has done this same trip several times and according to him the 744 has been always full.
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): The cabin was sprayed with insecticide while we were taxing to the runway
First time for me to hear this. Pretty weird!
Thanks for the report, and see you on saturday!
Enrique
There are two types of people in the world: Those who love Airplanes, and the rest of you poor bastards!
LH459 From United States, joined Aug 2005, 675 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9451 times:
Very nice report! I enjoyed the detail.
One thing I found interesting:
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): PNC aux portes. Armement des toboggans et vérifiez la porte opposée" (Cabin Crew take your stations at the doors. Activate emergency slides and check opposite door).
Other european carriers (LH, KL, etc) tend to use English for these announcements, but somehow it doesn't surprise me that AF would use French!
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 800 posts, RR: 18 Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9431 times:
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 7): But it is way more dangerous. Did you see military or police patrols/checkpoints along the way?
I did not see any security force this time. In my last trips neither. Only at the beginning did they put a lot of police.
I have even been stopped and the car searched in May, coming from Paris. They asked me if I had any gun with me.
I answered that in the plane it was not so easy.
I only used this route at daylight, but never saw any particular risk, except fro people wit big SUV passing everybody at crazy speeds without any visibility. But this is another story!
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 7): First time I hear of that procedure.
I have always seen this in place since 2003 for the AF flight. Are other Europe bound flights submitted to this?
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 7): Do you know if advance booking of these seats is allowed to Skyteam Elites?
I don’t know.
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 7): Sounds like a great system. Hopefully it can't be exploited by terrorists.
If we consider this is an immigration system, the greatest risk would be to allow somebody potentially dangerous in the country.
Frankly I doubt you can transform any country in a fortress, with total control of entries. I know the US are wanting to do this, but I don’t think they will succeed.
In Europe we have anyway so many possibilities for illegals to enter our soil (especially directly by sea from Africa)!
I really think that we should not base all our actions on the fear of terrorism. All the liberties lost in the west since 9/11 are in fact a victory for terrorists. I guess this will be an interesting topic to discuss on Saturday!
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 7): TGV, why don't you fly from CCS to VLN?
Because of the schedules!
With the car, when going to Paris, I can leave Valencia at 08:30/09:00 for the AF flight at 14:35.
The only possible flight is at 05:50.
And coming back I will arrive at Valencia around 19:00 with the car, if flying I would be in VLN (not yet home!) at 20:30 (and if you have read my trip report for my POS journey, it can be far later).
I don’t consider taking flights with a connection, because it multiplies the risks of being late.
Anyway I have already nearly missed twice the AF flight: one with the car (the ARC was blocked during 3 hours due to a truck accident), and one flying (at the time there was a flight with a “normal” connecting time in CCS, but this day it was 1 hour 30 late.
To be credible domestic air transport has to be far more reliable than what I have experienced until now here.
Quoting 797 (Reply 8): My uncle has done this same trip several times and according to him the 744 has been always full.
Based on my travels, and those of my colleagues (this give a quite good statistcale base), it is seldom that the flight is not at least 90% full.
In 1993 we had some times with a 5 weekly 332 of 212 seats (at the time, now they have more seats) so. And now AF can fill a daily 430 seat 744, nearly 3 times more seats. This is due to the reorganization with KL, and probably to the better economic situation in Venezuela.
Also there is a significant connecting traffic.
Quoting 797 (Reply 8): First time for me to hear this. Pretty weird!
This is the standard procedure with AF. But it is not limited to CCS: I have seen this at various Asian cities also. This is not 100% mosquito proof anyway, as there are regularly cases of malaria around CDG, which are due to lazy mosquitoes using planes!
See you both on Saturday.
Avoid AFKL 773 sardine cans with their 3-4-3 config in Y ! AF 772 are next
TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 800 posts, RR: 18 Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9428 times:
Quoting LH459 (Reply 9): One thing I found interesting:
Quoting TGV (Thread starter):
"PNC aux portes. Armement des toboggans et vérifiez la porte opposée" (Cabin Crew take your stations at the doors. Activate emergency slides and check opposite door).
Other european carriers (LH, KL, etc) tend to use English for these announcements, but somehow it doesn't surprise me that AF would use French! Wink
As these messages are only meant for other crew members why would they use a foreign language?
I would be interested to know the rationale of LH or KL about this choice.
Avoid AFKL 773 sardine cans with their 3-4-3 config in Y ! AF 772 are next
LH459 From United States, joined Aug 2005, 675 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9313 times:
Quoting TGV (Reply 11): As these messages are only meant for other crew members why would they use a foreign language?
I would be interested to know the rationale of LH or KL about this choice.
I've always wondered that myself, but on LH I've only heard these announcements in English ("Boarding completed." "Crew all doors in flight position"). Often the announcement will be punctuated with German "Danke." SR was the same way in the old days, though the announcement was just as likely to be punctuated with "Danke" or "Merci".
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
Summa767 From United Kingdom (England), joined Mar 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9110 times:
Quoting TGV (Reply 11): As these messages are only meant for other crew members why would they use a foreign language?
I would be interested to know the rationale of LH or KL about this choice.
I did notice that in LH and AY.
I guess it must not be a requrement that international based crew are fluent in German (for LH) and Finnish and Swedish (for AY), and hence English is adopted.
In the case of AY, I do know that they have a sizeable number of Chinese FA, given their presence in China. To expect them to be totally proficient in Finnish might be too hopeful. Finland have the added complication that Swedish is the native language of part of the population and hence an official language. Rather than give commands in the two languges, English seems the natural choice.
In the case of AY, I do know that they have a sizeable number of Chinese FA, given their presence in China. To expect them to be totally proficient in Finnish might be too hopeful. Finland have the added complication that Swedish is the native language of part of the population and hence an official language. Rather than give commands in the two languges, English seems the natural choice.
AY also have native Japanese and Thai FAs, soon also Indian.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
UpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7665 times:
Thank you for a great report!
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): I was directed to the passport check, which was done with two computers with passport reading machines. I have still to understand the exact purpose of this check, as it does not prevent a bothersome control at the exit of the jet way when arriving in CDG, as we will see later.
Quoting TGV (Thread starter): only, to find the usual queue which is due to a first passport control at the exit of the jet way.
---
However it is difficult to understand why this is necessary, with the pre-check made in CCS.
I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but there's one thing I would like to comment on. The passport check done before departure in CCS has nothing to do with the passport check done on arrival in CDG! In CCS, it's the Venezuelan immigration who wants to make sure you exit the country legally (not over-staying your visa etc.). In CDG it's the French immigration who wants to make sure you enter France (and the Schengen agreement area) legally. The two don't want to and can't for that matter rely on each others passport checks, since all necessary information is not available in CCS to make sure the person arrives to Schengen area legally and vv.
TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 800 posts, RR: 18 Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7518 times:
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 18): I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but there's one thing I would like to comment on. The passport check done before departure in CCS has nothing to do with the passport check done on arrival in CDG! In CCS, it's the Venezuelan immigration who wants to make sure you exit the country legally (not over-staying your visa etc.). In CDG it's the French immigration who wants to make sure you enter France (and the Schengen agreement area) legally.
Are we referring to the same thing?
When I speak of pre-check made in CCS it is not at all the immigration officer from Venezuela, who is in charge of verifying what you say.
The process is as follows (what I identify as" normal" is something you have in all airports around the world when flying international - except the US of course they have a world of their own):
1 - queue to access the check-in area for AF. An AF agent verifies your ticket (or that you are on the list of passenger for the flight if you have an e-ticket),
2- you are then allowed to enter the check-in area (only passengers can pass this first control) and directed to the pre-check of passports I was referring to,
3- this pre-check is not made by a Venezuelan immigration officer, but by a private company, hired by AF I guess. They have portable computer stations in which they scan your passport. According to the scan result they glue on your passport a sticker of different colours (I hate that, even if I have a passport cover: when you travel often you end with a passport covered of stickers of various sizes and colours, and if you remove them you stay with a sticky cover as the glue reamins on the cover). They don't write or stamp anything in your passport.
4- the normal check-in process to get you boarding pass,
5- the normal security check,
6- the normal immigration control made by a Venezuela immigration officer and which leads to the stamp in your passport.
I don't think the pre-check mentioned in 3 has something to do with Venezuelan authorities, as when I have flown international from CCS on other airlines (VH, AV for example), it did not exist.
So I have the impression this is a check made by AF to avoid problems at the arrival in CDG with passengers then rejected by French immigration, and that AF would have to repatriate at their expense to CCS.
If this is true (maybe a.netters flying from CCS to other Europeans gateways on LH, IB, AZ, TP could tell us if this exists also in their case), then it is only to "protect" the airline, as it does not avoid the double check (jetway and then normal) by immigration officers when arriving CDG. And it is an example of why flying these days (at least the airport part) is less and less a pleasure !
Avoid AFKL 773 sardine cans with their 3-4-3 config in Y ! AF 772 are next
Erikgnoha From Venezuela, joined Jun 2006, 210 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7306 times:
Quoting TGV (Reply 19): 3- this pre-check is not made by a Venezuelan immigration officer, but by a private company, hired by AF I guess. They have portable computer stations in which they scan your passport. According to the scan result they glue on your passport a sticker of different colours (I hate that, even if I have a passport cover: when you travel often you end with a passport covered of stickers of various sizes and colours, and if you remove them you stay with a sticky cover as the glue reamins on the cover). They don't write or stamp anything in your passport.
When I traveled last summer to YYZ with AC I experienced the same thing. I was in my queue to get my boarding pass, and before going to the counter and agent (I don't remember if he worked with AC or another company) checked my passport and glue a sticker on my passport. Then I went to the counter were I received my boarding pass and went to the security control. Once I was at the gate another passport check was done before entering the aircraft.
Quoting TGV (Reply 19): And it is an example of why flying these days (at least the airport part) is less and less a pleasure !
UK_Dispatcher From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2001, 2228 posts, RR: 32 Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7233 times:
Nice report & pics.
What are the upper deck windows like for wing / engine shots? I have my first flight on a B747 upper deck on friday so am keen to know.
The reason I ask is that when I tried to take a shot from the A388 upper deck last year it seemed there was quite a distance between the two panes which restricted the view and caused a lot of reflection - not good for photos.
TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 800 posts, RR: 18 Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6434 times:
Quoting UK_Dispatcher (Reply 21): What are the upper deck windows like for wing / engine shots? I have my first flight on a B747 upper deck on friday so am keen to know.
Did not answer as I had to check this point specifically, and could not do this in time for your flight.
But if others are interested these pictures are possible, but better get a window seat in the second part of the upper deck (after the doors). From the fist part of the cabin the angle is not good.
Avoid AFKL 773 sardine cans with their 3-4-3 config in Y ! AF 772 are next
BFS From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 726 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6204 times:
Great trip report, I really enjoyed reading that.
Quoting LH459 (Reply 12): I've always wondered that myself, but on LH I've only heard these announcements in English ("Boarding completed." "Crew all doors in flight position").
I have to say that I wish that we at BA made such an announcement. There is nothing worse than having passengers board at the last minute with far too much hand luggage that will simply not fit in the lockers, and going to ask the dispatcher to put it in the hold when you suddenly hear "Doors to automatic and crosscheck", thus realising "Oh dear, we're moving and I'm going to have to quickly move several heavy cases between lockers and probably hurt my back". Grrr.
Also, what does PNC stand for in those French announcements?