Flynavy From United States, joined Mar 2002, 3265 posts, RR: 20 Posted (8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14103 times:
Before any moderator proceeds to delete this thread I honestly and truly think it has a place here in the photography forum because we, the photographers of Airliners.net, have made this site what it is today, one photo at a time, for many, many years. I am troubled over the lack of any clarification on the following snippet from the new Terms of Use, updated on February 8, 2008:
Quote: Subject to your right to terminate your license to us as described in Section 5(C), you hereby grant Airliners.net an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), advertise in, on, and around, and create derivative works of the Content you submit or make available for inclusion on or through the Service, and to incorporate such Content into other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site.
You also hereby waive any moral rights you may have under the laws of any jurisdiction in Content you submit or make available on or through the Service. While it is our general policy to include your name alongside your Content, we are not obligated to do so.
So, what does this mean to myself and others who submit photographs here?
The last sentence of that snippet really troubles me.
Yes .... i am waiting to see what "the legal team" comes up with so Admin can confirm , in site related they have a thread on this very subject !
The thing that is a little alarming is the way its worded , we as the photographer can loose all rights to the image if promoted through Demand Media .
If that is the case i have a sneaky feeling a few images will be pulled .
Whappeh From United States, joined Mar 2006, 1204 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14047 times:
It almost sounds like (and I am in a very tired state, so I could be very wrong), that they want to maybe use the images on the site for their own purposes with out asking us... maybe as in they sell the images to companies, etc.
Psych From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 2378 posts, RR: 53 Reply 4, posted (8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14046 times:
In words of one syllable (or equivalent), does this mean that we waive our copyright and all that goes along with that? In effect, our photo belongs to us and DM once it is accepted?
747438 From United Kingdom (England), joined Jan 2007, 443 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14008 times:
Quoting Psych (Reply 4): In words of one syllable (or equivalent), does this mean that we waive our copyright and all that goes along with that? In effect, our photo belongs to us and DM once it is accepted?
Mmm.
Quoting GuamVICE (Reply 6): If this is indeed the case, I'm not sure I want to share my images with the site any longer...but I'll wait until clarification is brought about...
This definateky needs clarification from the owners.
If it is their intention to use our photos in this manner they will be shooting themselves in the foot
Ander From Spain, joined Jan 2005, 314 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14000 times:
Quoting GuamVICE (Reply 6): If this is indeed the case, I'm not sure I want to share my images with the site any longer...but I'll wait until clarification is brought about...
Mclaudio From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 82 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13992 times:
I am another one looking to this issue carefully, specially this part:
Quote: (...)you hereby grant Airliners.net an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (...)
If the rules changed at any point during my relation as a photographer with airliners.net as a way to show my work, perhaps it is time to stop and think on the terms of that relation, after all, I never gave to the company now running the site any license to use whatsoever in the terms written above. I have always seen Airliners.net as a great website to host "pictures of modern aircrafts", not a website where I would upload a photo and others would make use of the photo as they please.
But it is better to wait and see what comes out of this.
Insanity is when you do always the same and expect different results
Flynavy From United States, joined Mar 2002, 3265 posts, RR: 20 Reply 10, posted (8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13962 times:
Quoting GuamVICE (Reply 6): If this is indeed the case, I'm not sure I want to share my images with the site any longer...but I'll wait until clarification is brought about...
Agreed. That being said, if this is the case, I would be interested in the legal ramifications that would go along with it.
Spencer From United Kingdom (England), joined Apr 2004, 814 posts, RR: 20 Reply 11, posted (8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13933 times:
Let's say this goes ahead then; I'm supposing DM will charge for our work should they be contacted? Oh man, this is aint right! Why don't we get a poll going to see who will pull their work just to show DM how much they could be set to loose?
Spencer.
Spencer From United Kingdom (England), joined Apr 2004, 814 posts, RR: 20 Reply 13, posted (8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13927 times:
Tim, it's not a matter of getting ahead of ourselves really mate, more like getting prepared for the worse! Perhaps a poll wouldn't be a bad idea though? And honestly, would you be prepared to give up your chances of earning some money (from your work on THIS site)? I'm not prepared!
Spencer.
TimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3248 posts, RR: 64 Reply 14, posted (8 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13925 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Wel to get ahead of things myself, I think it probably means they can use your photos in new site features, just linked as usual. It will not mean DM will start selling your photos because that would be unacceptable.
Again let's just wait for an explanation. This legal mumbo jumbo probably obscures the real intention.
LeadingEdge From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13916 times:
I only have 29 photos on here so if we are signing away our rights to copyright its not a major deal for me. However I am sure the Pros and Semi Pros who have made major contributions to the success of A-Net over the years will be somewhat concerned by this. You only have until the 7th March to request deletion before they are free to use your images.
Cpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 46 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13910 times:
"create derivative works of the Content"
That term worries me. But rather than making guesses, I'll probably just get a work colleague who is a legal wiz to take a look at these and see what implications it could have.
While the legal mumbo jumbo may obscure the real intention, it also seems to be quite obtuse to allow a very broad scope of possibilities, at least that's how I understand it on my first couple of readings.
Dvincent From United States, joined Jan 2007, 741 posts, RR: 3 Reply 18, posted (8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13879 times:
I don't grant Demand Media the rights to do anything with my photographs except display them. That is very broad, sweeping language there. I've seen it before and it's never a good thing.
Suffice to say if that wording stays in there, I'm pulling my photos off the site.
New England Airports! Sony Alpha a700, Sigma 50-500, Minolta 70-210 f/4, Tamron 17-50.
Mat1979 From France, joined Dec 2005, 21 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13873 times:
Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 14): Wel to get ahead of things myself, I think it probably means they can use your photos in new site features, just linked as usual. It will not mean DM will start selling your photos because that would be unacceptable.
Again let's just wait for an explanation. This legal mumbo jumbo probably obscures the real intention.
I'm afraid it gives them a lot of leeway. Maybe their intention is nice today, but what if they change their mind 2 years from now?
Quote: Quote:
Subject to your right to terminate your license to us as described in Section 5(C), you hereby grant Airliners.net an irrevocable, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, reproduce, modify, transmit, distribute, publicly perform and display (including in each case by means of a digital audio and video transmission), advertise in, on, and around, and create derivative works of the Content you submit or make available for inclusion on or through the Service, and to incorporate such Content into other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for purposes such as (but not limited to) promoting the Site or promoting the availability of such Content on the Site.
You also hereby waive any moral rights you may have under the laws of any jurisdiction in Content you submit or make available on or through the Service. While it is our general policy to include your name alongside your Content, we are not obligated to do so.
My reading of this is, once you've accepted the new rules, they're free. If they want to use the photos in new site features, as usual, they'll can, but if they want to use them for other purposes too, they can as well.
The email i received contained :
Quote: Your continued use of Airliners.net after March 8, 2008 will indicate your acceptance of the new Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
The safest thing to do, as a photographer, i believe, is not to wait beyond march 8, but pull the photo one cares for, unless the terms of use change (especially the "not limited to", and "irrevocable", perpetual").
That's what i intend to do, for my best pic. You can always reupload your best pics without trouble, it appears pulling your pics off the site past march 8 will be difficult.
Dvincent From United States, joined Jan 2007, 741 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (8 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13865 times:
Quoting TimdeGroot (Reply 14): Wel to get ahead of things myself, I think it probably means they can use your photos in new site features, just linked as usual. It will not mean DM will start selling your photos because that would be unacceptable.
What it means, Tim, is that DM can use your photographs in, say, another Demand Media website for advertising without your permission. It means if Demand Media publishes a magazine, they can use the photos without asking (or paying) you. It means they could be used in books, slideshows, videos/DVDs, on merchandise without your say.
Now, what it doesn't mean, is they can't give it to another company to use. But as long as it's a Demand Media production, it's fair game.
They might not do it. But they just gave themselves the rights to. I don't believe they'd give themselves the rights without the intention to use them.
New England Airports! Sony Alpha a700, Sigma 50-500, Minolta 70-210 f/4, Tamron 17-50.
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