ACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 214 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5770 times:
Avianca was the 747's first operator in Latin America. It used to fly back in the 1980's from Bogotá to CDG, FRA,AMS, LGW and LHR sometimes via MAD. Nowadays is there any other possibility to see another big bird in the Latin-American Skies? Obvious question A380 in Latin-America?
SOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2406 posts, RR: 12 Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5665 times:
Nowadays is there any other possibility to see another big bird in the Latin-American Skies?
Hmmm, thinking about it, it would be really tough, and if you start analyzing each carrier's potential to have it, you'll find out that the possibility, IMO, is right down to 0.
We only have one Latin American airline operating the 747 nowadays, so imagine how the panorama with a larger bird would be....
Kim777fan From United States, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5651 times:
Hmmmm.. I don't know and I have my doubts. The sales for the A380 aren't coming from North and South America, at least thus far.
The purchasers of the A380 include AF, KE, LH, QF, and VS. Emirates is by far the biggest customer accounting for just under 1/3 of all A380 orders (41 of 129).
I'm not sure Avianca is in the market for such a behemoth if they aren't flying a VLA at present.
JoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2089 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5610 times:
Maybe someone from Europe will bring an A380 to GRU. LH and AF are the two most likely candidates.
MEX might also see the bigbus. LH has an daily 744 and three more 744 weekly. So an daily A380 would make a lot of sense, due to the fact that the Germany to Mexico market is not a market where frequency is important.
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2421 posts, RR: 31 Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5600 times:
None. But if I had to pick one, it would be AR and then LAN. Why AR? because they already operate a long haul Airbus (A340) and they might want to get rid of the B744 leases by late in this decade.... And why LAN? well because Chile has one of the fastest growing economies in Latin America, so they might have the demand and also the MONEY to buy such a beast.
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
Ghost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 4324 posts, RR: 40 Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5588 times:
MEX might also see the bigbus. LH has an daily 744 and three more 744 weekly. So an daily A380 would make a lot of sense, due to the fact that the Germany to Mexico market is not a market where frequency is important.
LH got intentions to increase next year service to 12X. Before World Cup 2006 LH wants to offer 14X to MEX.
The A380 In Latin America
Non possibilties!
A380s of European carriers in Latin America: YES.
AR? No. They first will go for the A340-600s.
LA? No. They first will go for more A340-300 or more 600s.
MX? YES. By the year of 2021 in their 100 year Anniversary...! Yeah right...
Ricardo APM
Ricardo Morales - Aviation Photography of Mexico - ¡No es qué maneje rápido, solo estoy volando lento!
This is the only experience of Lan Chile with the 747, and it was intended for summer peaks only. LAN prefers flexibility and frequency, not mass transport. LAN won't be a client for the 380, specially with this "multi hub" strategy (SCL, LIM, EZE, UIO, etc) that split the demand, instead of concentrate it.
Besides, we don't need to spoil these nice colors in such an ugly bird! And we'll have to see how AR and RG handle the 747s to get enough profits for justifying the 747s.
Regards
Arcano
721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,777,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738 and 333, in that order...
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2271 posts, RR: 18 Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5563 times:
BTW, how many Latin American airports are able to handle the 380?
I think in SCL, the current runway ans taxi ways in construction (to be opened in 2005) considered the 380 in the design.
But if a 380 intended to land in Santiago has to be rerouted, for fog or emergecy, SCL alternatives airports: MDZ, CCP and ANF won't be able to receive it, or am I wrong?
)(
721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,777,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738 and 333, in that order...
ACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 214 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5559 times:
TACA was the first 767 operator and a late A300 operator. Sometime is not only about size but also about goals and expansion. Despite crazy it sounds I wouldn't discard the aidea of having a A380 operated by Latin-American carriers. LA and AR come first to my mind.
LX23 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 337 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5466 times:
I'd say RG and AR would probably be the most likely operators of an A380, but it's probably gonna be a long time before we see that bird with Latin American colours.
@ACES: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the A300s were freighters?? And are you sure AV was the first 747 operator in Latin America?
@Luis: VIASA was a wonderful airline, and I do miss it...shame the pre-Chavez governments killed it...though I've heard that the Chavez government was trying to bring a national airline back to Venezuela?
TBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 906 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5409 times:
On another thread someone made a note that EZE is ready to receive the A380. As to whether an airline would purchase one is another issue. As with what Arcano said regarding LAN, I think that the same goes for AR. I would only see them with A340 etc or similar sized aircraft, especially with the 744 in service. Although could the A380 be used for EZE-MAD?????
LX23 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 337 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5341 times:
Well, EZE-MAD is done at least 4x daily with IB and AR 747s/A346s, plus the Southern Winds/Air Europa 767, and all the other airlines that take transfer passengers (RG,LAN, etc)...So I wouldn't put it past them (capacity-wise)
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2421 posts, RR: 31 Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5241 times:
@Luis: VIASA was a wonderful airline, and I do miss it...shame the pre-Chavez governments killed it...
Not true. Pre chavez goverments weren't good, but they weren't as bad as Chavez. Pre-chavez govs created the airline with KLMs help and experienced a fast growth during the 70s as a result of the high oil prices and the bonanza Venezuela was experiencing at the time.
Back then almost everyone except bums could go to Miami to spend the weekend, there are stories of people going to Miami only to do their groceries shopping and return the same day. Well what I'm trying to say here is that oil wealth allowed the Venezuelan State to have a strong national airline. But what happened? When oil prices dropped, Venezuela faced a huge problem. Goverments saw their income drop and had to reduce their budgets and consequently state subsides, being VIASA one of them.
Read the caption, it says the plane returned to CCS full. Back then we could import many many things at a relatively low price. Thanks to the exchange rate.
In 1983 the "black tuesday" as we venezuelans remember it, happened. What is the black tuesday? well in that day the gov. announced that they were suspeding currency exchange temporally. 2 weeks later they decided to devaluate the Bolivar from 4.30 Bs/$ to 7 Bs./$. So in a matter of hours what u had in the bank, suddenly was worth half of it. After 1983 the Bolivar has been suffering a non-stopable devaluation and in 20 years it has devaluated about 63,000%from it's original value. During the Chávez administration it has devaluated 500%. When he came to power the exchange rate was about 500Bs./$ and now it's about 2800Bs./$
So what happened? well a new goverment came to power in the late 80's (Carlos Andrés Pérez). He went to the FMF for help. They helped him develop an economic policy that was supposed to help us and it included the privatization of many many state-run enterprises, being VIASA one of them. VIASA wasn't been profitable since the early 80s so it was a priority for the gov. to privatize it.
As I mentioned earlier, VIASA was created with KLM's help, so when the privatization bid was announced, KLM was anxious to buy VIASA. But Carlos ANdres Pérez had stong ties with Felipe Gonzalez socialist party in Spain and decided to sell VIASA to Iberia, which wasn't familiar with VIASA's operations as KLM was.
IB tried to implement a complete re-structuring of the airline but the labors opposed and no deal could be made, so IB decided to stop operations to stop losing money and then sold almost all of the fleet in order to recover their invesment in the airline. Hope this gives everyone a clear picture of what happened with VIASA.
though I've heard that the Chavez government was trying to bring a national airline back to Venezuela?
Yes. Chavez is trying to create a state-run airline called CONVIASA apparently to give tourism a boost. But the sad truth is that he's trying to recover the support he once had from the middle and upper class of the country, since he's facing a recall election in 2 days. It's just a dirty politics trick trying to convince Venezuelans that we are going to have VIASA back and that we will be able to do our groseries in Miami again.
CONVIASA is supposed to be based in PMV (Margarita Island) which is our main tourist destination. The Air Force will take care of maintenance and training. Recently the Navy just gave CONVIASA one of their CASA 212s so that they could start ops to another popular tourist destination in Venezuela LRS (Los Roques Archipelago). Navy pilots will fly it.
So Chávez is only proposing another state-run airline, with military crew and aircraft. This airline if it ever happens to start ops, will only be a complete failure. What the gov. should do is support the already-established private airlines like VH and Santa Bárbara so that they can expand ops to many more destinations like VIASA once did.
If anyone has a question, I'll gladly try to answer it
[Edited 2004-08-13 14:52:48]
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
La Carlota From United States, joined Jun 2001, 356 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5131 times:
Luisde8cd:
Probably this is not the best 'topic' under which discussing VIASA's fate, so I'll be brief.
Your explanation about what happened was great. However, I blame Pérez's Administration for selling the company to an already troubled one, Iberia, which at that time was doing pretty bad in Spain too.
So, as a Spaniard who lived in Venezuela for a long time (and misses it a lot!), I can't help but to blame both IB and the Venezuelan Government.
And about the A380 question in Latin American, my bets go to Varig for some of its routes to Europe, and Aerolíneas Argentinas (also to Europe and probably some markets in the US --MIA or JFK--) if economic recovery in the country continues its path...
Luisde8cd From Venezuela, joined Aug 2004, 2421 posts, RR: 31 Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5108 times:
Probably this is not the best 'topic' under which discussing VIASA's fate
You are right. I was just replying to LX23's question as brief as I could do without leaving out important facts.
However, I blame Pérez's Administration for selling the company to an already troubled one, Iberia, which at that time was doing pretty bad in Spain too.
Correct, so do I when I mentioned that they sold it to IB instead of KLM which was very familiar with VIASA's operations . Pérez and/or his advisors made a HUGE MISTAKE there. Politics in business isn't good.
By the way... La Carlota, is that nickname of yours related to SVFM (Caracas "downtown" airport/air force base?)
[Edited 2004-08-13 16:03:17]
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
La Carlota From United States, joined Jun 2001, 356 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5074 times:
Luisde8cd
By the way... La Carlota, is that nickname of yours related to SVFM (Caracas "downtown" airport/air force base?)
Of course it is! That's were my passion for Aviation comes from. I used to live right in front of the runway, when the airport used to have lots of private traffic. During years, I knew almost all of the aircrafts coming in and out of that lovely place!
Miaskies From United States, joined Jun 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5058 times:
Hmm Latin American Carriers having A380's??? thats a difficult one...
I could definetly see Latin American Carriers getting larger long haul aircraft like the 773, A346 (as in the plans for AR) and maybe some 7E7 for carriers like LAN, Varig to offer more pin-point nonstop service to other cities.
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And we'll have to see how AR and RG handle the 747s to get enough profits for justifying the 747s.
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. Pérez and/or his advisors made a HUGE MISTAKE there. Politics in business isn't good.