LTBEWR From United States, joined Jan 2004, 8519 posts, RR: 16 Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11851 times:
A male passanger on a LAX-JFK flight on AA Friday night (March 18th), died after a struggle with other passangers. He apparently was intoxicated, was harassing and physically threating the F/A's, some other male pax restrined him twice, and upon the 2nd restraining of him, he died. An investigation is in process. I learned of this from a Channel 4/NBC NYC TV 6 pm news report. I'll try to find out more about this. Anybody else whom has heard of this with further info, please add to this post. Thank you.
Newark777 From United States, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 8796 posts, RR: 39 Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11707 times:
Does anyone have a flight #? I couldn't find any stories about it on the news sites.
Zippyjet From United States, joined Sep 2001, 2471 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10727 times:
Can't wait to see the lawsuits over this one... as ridiculous as it will undoubtedly be.
It's gonna be a photo finish to see who screws with AA, the flight crew and their passengers.
If that plane only had a button to eject rubbish in midair!
OPNLguy From United States, joined Jun 1999, 12627 posts, RR: 75 Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10703 times:
Does anyone have any facts to confirm that the event actually happened? I've looked at sites for NY/LA papers and TV stations, and there's no mention at all.
Carelessness and overconfidence are usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks.
UA777222 From United States, joined Dec 2003, 2829 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10021 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6): restrain him properly, cuffs, duct tape, etc and there'd be no need to restrain him twice. . . . hammer his ass upon landing. Simple as that.
two way street hero.
I see too much getting in the way of that happening. Not only would it require the f/a to over power the passenger there is too much all wrapped up in it all. In the same situation the pissed off passenger can take those tools and use them against the cabin crew and passengers. Force, false imprisonment, and other claims can all take the airline to court be it the airlines fault or not. If the passengers use their judgment and feel that the passenger is being unruly and needs to be detained they will do so. Not saying its the passengers job to secure the cabins but a lot of trust and judgment is left in the hands of the passengers.
It's the same passengers who help detain others that are expected to know their limits and know that alt. and other in-flight conditions can play a role in their attitude. It's b/c of all these reasons there aren't guns in the cabin and its b/c of these issues Air marshals are used. There is a possibility that one was aboard and was struggling with the passenger but until a formal report is given a lot is up in the air.
It's sad when airlines have to limit the amount of security they can offer due to lawsuits and possible danger. Hell it's sad any security is needed!
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 10475 posts, RR: 79 Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10019 times:
Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 11): Alcohol SHOULD be banned from flights AND airports..
Oh, get over yourselves, the pair of you. Alcohol has been served on planes since the dawn of flying - I would imagine Wilbur and Orville had a bottle standing by.
Yes, there is the occasional "incident". When you deal with the travelling public there are always "incidents", ask any CSA, and if you can't handle those, you're not all that good at your jobs.
The point of running an airline is for the benefit of the passengers, not to make the flight attendants lives a whole lot easier.
Aa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9694 times:
99% of flyers drink responsibly. There is no reason to ban all alcohol on flights because 1% of the flying community that drinks can't hold their booze. To suggest banning alcohol on flights is asinine.
The easiest solution to this is have a inflight plan of action incase a passenger becomes intoxicated and then unruly. Through a straight-jacket on the guy, but don't take a right away from all the sane passengers.
Tiger119 From United States, joined Sep 2003, 1249 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9610 times:
Mariner, I just added you to my respected users list (and I don't do that often). I totally agree with you.
First, if someone is boarding the aircraft that is impaired, deny him or her boarding. If someone on board is getting to the point to where he or she is becoming impaired (or obnoxious, or being rude, or a pain in the a$$), cut him or her off. I have been flying on commercial airplanes since I was in knickers and I have yet to be on a plane where there was a passenger causing problems (alcohol related or other-wise). These incidents don't happen that often, just when it does happen, it's newsworthy to some people. And as far as banning alcohol on flights, I believe there would be a large number of unhappy campers. I fly several times a year and I like to have a couple of light beers on the flight, for several reasons. I don't cause any problems, I stay out of the way, I only ask for one when the flight attendant has time, not when they are busy doing something else.
As far as the law suits, I'm sure someone will file a lawsuit (in the US, anyone can file a law suit against anyone else for what ever reason he or she wants, the big deal comes down on what the judge decides to do with the law suit). Hopefully the judges will just toss the law suits out as being frivolous.
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
ANCFlyer From United States, joined Nov 2004, 22999 posts, RR: 100 Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9605 times:
Quoting UA777222 (Reply 12): I see too much getting in the way of that happening. Not only would it require the f/a to over power the passenger there is too much all wrapped up in it all.
I never said the F/A had to do it - I made a general statement, anyone can restrain the asshole . . . if I'm on board, I'll be glad to . . . arm bar, floor meets face, duct tape meets wrist, next?
Quoting UA777222 (Reply 12): Force, false imprisonment, and other claims can all take the airline to court be it the airlines fault or not.
Rather be judged by the jury than carried by the pallbearers if this asshole 'really' gets unruly.
Quoting Mariner (Reply 13): Oh, get over yourselves, the pair of you. Alcohol has been served on planes since the dawn of flying - I would imagine Wilbur and Orville had a bottle standing by.
Yes, there is the occasional "incident". When you deal with the travelling public there are always "incidents", ask any CSA, and if you can't handle those, you're not all that good at your jobs.
Couldn't have said that better if I'd said it meself!
I expect bilge like that from AnnoyingF/A but I thought Airlinelover was smarter than that . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 6301 posts, RR: 26 Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9591 times:
Banning alcohol on flights? Great idea, lets make flying even more unappealing! Aren't the airlines loosing enough money as it is? What's next, restraining pax if they ask for a second orange juice?
Newark777 From United States, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 8796 posts, RR: 39 Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7790 times:
This was the plane, N335AA, if anyone is interested.
LTBEWR From United States, joined Jan 2004, 8519 posts, RR: 16 Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7648 times:
Thanks for the link Indio66. The synopis for if the link goes dead:
3/18/05 - AA Flt. 4 - LAX-JFK - B-767
The person whom died was William Lee, 48, from Brooklyn, NY. He worked in the clothing business. He did have an asthma condition. Lee did have some drinks on the flight, and got agitated when in the last hour on the flight his request for a drink was delayed/refused. He then got agitated, threating violence toward an F/A and moving toward the cockpit. Apparently he ws angry due to a problem with a relationship. Seven (7) members of an international rugby team restrained him, placed plastic handcuffs on him. He continued to be agitated and the 7 pax took him to the gallery area to restrain him as the flight made an expidited priority landing at JFK. The Port Authority police and the NYC Queens County District Attorney is investigating possible criminal charges. It is unclear if he died on the a/c or after he left it or how much his restraint by the 7 men was involved with his death. He leaves behind a wife and elderly mother. The wife is very angry as to how this happened, that he was a churchgoing man, not a heavy drinker and at the way AA handled this and info about it for her.
This situation seems to be similar to where a pax went wild on a WN flight Dallas in August 2000 (?) and other pax on the flight restrained him and broke his neck in the process. Nobody was ever proscuted or charged after an investigation.
NonRevKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7385 times:
Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 15): If someone on board is getting to the point to where he or she is becoming impaired (or obnoxious, or being rude, or a pain in the a$$), cut him or her off.
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 21): Lee did have some drinks on the flight, and got agitated when in the last hour on the flight his request for a drink was delayed/refused. He then got agitated, threating violence toward an F/A and moving toward the cockpit.
Oh yeah! Just "cut them off"! That solves everything!
And no, this is not "rare", this is all too common. Unless you've been a flight attendant, you have no clue.
A ban on alcohol, at least in coach, on domestic US flights up to 5 hours would be great. If you dont think you can go that long without a drink, hey...If you can't get help at Charter, please get help somewhere...
Indio66 From United States, joined Mar 2004, 436 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7149 times:
There is a head shot of the passenger in the print edition of the Post, and he looks like a big boy. If I had to guess, I would say he's at least 275 pounds.
If he got out of control and tried to storm the cockpit (indeed, as the plane was getting close to NYC), then its hard to feel sorry for him.
KBOS From United States, joined Nov 2003, 354 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7146 times:
"He was never a big drinker," Lee's wife, Meena, told The Post about her church going husband. "He was never violent. That's the reason I don't believe it."
Lee, who had told the Boeing 767 cabin crew he was despondent over a breakup with his girlfriend....
sure sounds like a good "church going" husband......
Take this plane anywhere girls are going wild......
Waterpolodan From United States, joined Feb 2005, 1082 posts, RR: 8 Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6986 times:
This sounds eerily similar to the one episode of CSI las vegas that I've ever watched... If I remember correctly, a passenger had some kind of medical condition that caused him to act very aggressive and it seemed like he was trying to open the cabin door in flight (obviously impossible, but the average viewer doesn't know that) so the other passengers attacked him and beat him to death... the csi people tried to find enough evidence to convict them of murder, but I think they all got off. Interesting parallel.
Spike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6734 times:
What a mad scared country the US has become. If some guy wants another double scotch (let alone a beer to go with it), Asian airlines FAs smile, ask if they would like nuts too, and then go do their job in bringing it over. The poor guy needed some calm after a bust-up in a relationship, not attitude.
Mrniji From India, joined Feb 2004, 5594 posts, RR: 56 Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6628 times:
Spike, you are back! I was missing you
I completely agree.. in the future, consumption of alcohol on board might be seen as an offense, leading to an FAA inquiry and corresponsing imprisonment in Guantanamo... - is some peole don't behave after drinking alc on board, this does not mean that this should be banned at all...
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
Sponsor Message: 
From United States, joined Jan 2004, 8519 posts, 
, 8796 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 10475 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 6301 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, 
From India, joined Feb 2004, 5594 posts, 