Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2020 posts, RR: 22 Posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 22945 times:
well here is another one of my famous cell phone stories, this time it got bad....
Flight TK 459 from ADA-IST - Captain's leg for flight.
The weather at ADA was CAVOK we were using runway 5 for departure and we got to rolling, all systems normal and take off thrust set itself just fine on autothrottle....
then after my V1 call and rotate we took to the air and everything was good too, then the drama starts...
at 400 AGL we are required to select a ROLL mode, i selected Heading for the captain, as we were cleared on runway heading, however it didn't engage, the mcp didn't light up or the FMA or the F/D bars...nothing....so i tried putting on LNAV, same thing.....we continued manual...then at 1000 i tried to engage the A autopilot...that did nothing...B, that did nothing...then at 1500 I tried to reduce to climb power by pressing the N1 button...nothing, tried changing the MCP speed, didn't budge....at this point departure cleared us to MUT vor after 3000, so the captain was flying full manual turning the a/c while the F/D were telling him to continue his heading, started getting confusing....
then passing 7600 feet while climbing to level 260, we asked the Chief F/A to do a cell phone check in the back...she came back with no results....we were slightly shocked....then we were able to put in autopilot A but when it engaged, the VNAV AND LNAV came on all by them selves and the plane dove downwards a little, and then autopilot kicked off.....she started going insane, level change came on by itself, and it pulled the speed back to 171 knots with the flaps up while we were doing 284 so she started climbing at 4500 feet per min, im sure people noticed at the back that something was kinda wrong....i didn't enjoy it....then both EADI flight directors disappeared completely, and the FMA locked on VNAV and LNAV, and the aircraft was telling us to turn in a completely useless direction, the captain kept her in manual, now passing 22,000 feet we were utterly confused, the checklist had nothing, we couldnt use our FMS LNAV and the aircraft was being crazy, then several seconds later i was cross checking the 3 airspeed indicators like MAD because i had no idea which FCC was engaged versus which was we selected and what the damn plane would command us to do....i tried autopilot A again (to reduce the workload so we could problem solve together) it engaged! however, 10 seconds later it kicked off...because...and im glad this didn't happen in IMC...the Captain's EADI flight director was asking for a 20 degree nose dive, and my EADI F/D was commanding a 20 degree nose UP attitude....we just looked at each other....., the altitude warning horn went off at random intervals...and the stress level was a lil higher than usual because we know VERY well flying the -400 that someone's friggin cell phone is on back there, that's the ONLY thing in almost 10 years of TK history that messes up the MCP panel, coming from experienced captains...
so the pre recorded cell phone announcement was played FOUR times, and nothing, then we asked each one of our cabin staff to basically violate people and find the phones.....
guess what.....5 cell phones were on, 2 were text messaging, and one person was playing music and looking for a cell phone tower at altitude to see if it kicked in or not....pax were furious, because we were heading to CAT II airport at the time and we needed these damn instruments for the approach into IST....
once those 5 cell phones were switched off....everything came back to normal, both autopilots came on when we selected each one, all F/D indications came back, the FMS was usuable and nothing went wrong again....
i can't tell you how friggin upset i get, people always pray that we fly safe etc and oh i hope god watches out for you etc...but then they try to use their cell phones...can you believe someone was trying to text message that they were in the plane right as we rotated? don't you just wanna beat these people up?
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
113312 From United States, joined Apr 2005, 334 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 22949 times:
Was this an Airbus 320 or a B737? Have you reported it to regulatory authorities? I am a safety volunteer with ALPA in USA and we are very interested in these events. Have you contacted IFALPA?
Yeah. a few years back enroute DXB-ZRH, about 2 hours out of ZRH, some guy's mobile phone wakeup function started to ring loudly and basically woke everybody up in the whole Business class section. The purser got well pissed and told the guy off, who was so embarassed
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2020 posts, RR: 22 Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 22906 times:
Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1): What happened to the cell phone users? I would of had the police waiting for them
sigh my friend...i wish, some things are unfortunately left alone here...there is no law or procedure in force yet for these things....sad how cheap life can be huh?
Quoting 113312 (Reply 2): Was this an Airbus 320 or a B737?
this was a 737-400
Quoting 113312 (Reply 2): Have you contacted IFALPA?
No i don't know where to go or what to do...i tried reporting it here once, i was kinda made fun of and people said how do you know it was the cell phone....i just friggin know i fly like 5 legs a day, all the commanders say the same thing
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
TK787 From United States, joined Jan 2006, 1551 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 22811 times:
It sounds scary. I am glad it all worked out.
Pilotaydin,
What can be done to make sure people get how serious this is?
Could this be a page in the "Safety Cards", in big letters?
How about a similar punishment just like tempering with the smoke detectors?
Did you or your Chief F/A made an announcement after you solved the problem, with a simple explanation, to tell the pax what kind of mess could this create?
Thanks for sharing.
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7031 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 22772 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter): we asked the Chief F/A to do a cell phone check in the back...she came back with no results
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter): the pre recorded cell phone announcement was played FOUR times, and nothing,
OK, I can live with people thinking their phones are off but...
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter): 2 were text messaging, and one person was playing music and looking for a cell phone tower at altitude to see if it kicked in or not
Qslinger From New Zealand, joined Apr 2006, 178 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 22699 times:
Isn't it about time they made planes cell phone resistant!!?? or atleast make a device that will cut out cell phone intereference from effecting the planes systems?
I mean come on..I know ppl who fly 5 days a week and unwittingly they do leave their cells on. Instead of chewing out 100 + ppl on a plane, it would be better if they made the planes system more robust.
Specially in this day and age of terrorism, whats to keep 10 terrorist from boarding a plane to disrupt its systems.
Aerobalance From United States, joined Sep 2000, 4276 posts, RR: 44 Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 22677 times:
Quoting Qslinger (Reply 7): Isn't it about time they made planes cell phone resistant!!?? or atleast make a device that will cut out cell phone intereference from effecting the planes systems?
Sure, but most legs flown are VOR which is based on radio-signal, yes it is to a certain bandwith, but you can get crosstalk.
"I'm a wheel, I'm a wheel, I can roll, I can feel"
Airfoilsguy From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 22635 times:
Quoting Qslinger (Reply 7): I mean come on..I know ppl who fly 5 days a week and unwittingly they do leave their cells on. Instead of chewing out 100 + ppl on a plane, it would be better if they made the planes system more robust.
What do think is easier, spending millions on reconfiguring airplane antennas, or just banning cell phones on planes? If they can do it with liquids they can do it with anything.
9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 1551 posts, RR: 11 Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 22609 times:
I will print this thread and show it to anyone who do this uncivilised act onboard. Being on MH's 734s a lot of times, I can say that sometimes there are still a few violators although MH's FAs are very strict about cellphone usage while onboard.
Being living in Indonesia, the situation here is well... just ask mandala499 or HB-IWC. And the FAs just don't bother to stop them. I guess the FAs know their fellow countrymen very well.
But, one must not forget of how the usage of cellphone while onboard can help in certain conditions, as proven by the cases of airplane highjacking of 9/11 tragedy (where passengers and FAs used it to inform autorities and their families of what was happening to them). RIP.
ForgotMyNick From Poland, joined Jan 2007, 26 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 22580 times:
Quoting Qslinger (Reply 7): Isn't it about time they made planes cell phone resistant!!?? or atleast make a device that will cut out cell phone intereference from effecting the planes systems?
I believe a few airlines (AF, FR, ...) already announced that this year they will start allowing cell phones usage onboard.
Also, read some articles about studies that were performed and they seem to confirm that there were virtually no interference, not in a dangerous sense at least.
So it must be somehow possible. How come?
Ssides From United Arab Emirates, joined Feb 2001, 3707 posts, RR: 18 Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 22509 times:
Quoting ForgotMyNick (Reply 11):
I believe a few airlines (AF, FR, ...) already announced that this year they will start allowing cell phones usage onboard.
Also, read some articles about studies that were performed and they seem to confirm that there were virtually no interference, not in a dangerous sense at least.
So it must be somehow possible. How come?
The airlines that plan on allowing cell phone use (and I believe EK is the only one thus far) will have a special transmitter on the plane for cell signals, much like the Connexion wireless internet service. It is my hope that, to avoid annoyances, airlines adopt policies where such devices are used for texting only -- no voice calls unless an emergency occurs.
With respect to the studies on cell phone signals, some have been inconclusive, but there are plenty of instances where the signals have interfered. And, the more cell phones that are being used in-flight, the more radio bandwidth is being used -- hence increasing the chance of interference. If they were not banned, more would be in use, and there would be a greater threat.
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 15005 posts, RR: 44 Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 22429 times:
Quoting Qslinger (Reply 7): I mean come on..I know ppl who fly 5 days a week and unwittingly they do leave their cells on.
A phone uses far more transmitting power when actively being used for data or voice. Leaving it on by mistake won't cause much interference (though 150 left on might...). The difference in power is why a phone can last 14 days in standby but 5 hours when talking.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
ForgotMyNick From Poland, joined Jan 2007, 26 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 22388 times:
Quoting Ssides (Reply 12): The airlines that plan on allowing cell phone use (and I believe EK is the only one thus far) will have a special transmitter on the plane for cell signals,
Alright, but its purpose is to make cells work and not to prevent them from interfering with cockpit's navigation and radio devices.
Quote: It is my hope that, to avoid annoyances, airlines adopt policies where such devices are used for texting only -- no voice calls unless an emergency occurs.
I wouldn't count on that... Once they allow a small tiny sth, they have to un-ban it all. Do you imagine pax texting but not receiving calls, not using internet etc? And RyanAir's CEO specifically commented that he doesn't mind the noise in the cabins of his a/c's (because suddenly everyone is shouting over the phone), he said sth like "you want piece&quiet, you don't fly Ryan".
Quote: With respect to the studies on cell phone signals, some have been inconclusive, but there are plenty of instances where the signals have interfered.
My point is that there must already exist something (a new technology?) that makes mobile devices onboard both feasible and safe. And it probably isn't a X-million $$ replacing of all comm systems/antennas in the airplanes.
Otherwise, are they all (AF, FR, EK, ...) a bunch of suiciders?
LTBEWR From United States, joined Jan 2004, 8238 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 22344 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter): then we asked each one of our cabin staff to basically violate people and find the phones.....
While not playing down the seriousness of the situation and recognizing that English is not your primary language (although it is very good), I find the term you used in the above quote to be quite funny in a way. In English, to 'violate' people would suggest that you wanted them to be assaulted and in the USA the way that term would may used in that situation, that could suggest sexual assault. I am quite sure you didn't mean that, although I could understand under the problems you had in the cockpit, and you wanted the cabin staff to be direct with the passengers and help them locate the offending phones.
Then again, you probably wouldn't have minded the cell phone offenders get a good beating for their stupidity and putting you and others on the a/c at serious risk.
hehe you're right, i meant violate their personal space, as in dive into their bags and look around. You would be amazed at the number of people who say ive turned it off, but get semi violent when you want them to show you...they take it personal lol
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
Analog From United States, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 22257 times:
Quoting Qslinger (Reply 7): t
Isn't it about time they made planes cell phone resistant!!?? or atleast make a device that will cut out cell phone intereference from effecting the planes systems?
I mean come on..I know ppl who fly 5 days a week and unwittingly they do leave their cells on. Instead of chewing out 100 + ppl on a plane, it would be better if they made the planes system more robust.
Specially in this day and age of terrorism, whats to keep 10 terrorist from boarding a plane to disrupt its systems.
I agree... quite frankly, IMHO no airline/pilot should ever fly an aircraft that they believe to be vulnerable to interference by cell phones.
Given that there is no way of guaranteeing that all cell phones are off/not x-mitting, the only safe course of action is to assume that cell phones will be used on every flight, irrespective of any ban. If a pilot operates an aircraft that he/she believes to be vulnerable to such devices, he/she should rethink his/her commitment to passenger safety.
BTW: I'm not defending the use of cell phones on aircraft.
TheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 804 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 22162 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter): 5 cell phones were on, 2 were text messaging, and one person was playing music and looking for a cell phone tower at altitude to see if it kicked in or not
They must be the most ridiculous crock of passengers I have ever seen or heard about. Kudos to you and your crew for handling it so well. I couldn't imagine myself NOT screaming at those dumbasses over the horn, or laying the smack down on every one of them.
I guess it's a good thing I'm not an airline pilot.
Quoting Analog (Reply 17): I agree... quite frankly, IMHO no airline pilot should ever fly an aircraft that they believe to be vulnerable to interference by cell phones.
There are countless risks involved while flying a plane, cellphone interference is just one of them. It's just like saying pilots should refuse to fly commercial aircraft in or out of an airport with lots of birds flying around, in fear of a bird strike.
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